Jair Bolsanaro: Holocaust crimes can be forgiven, not forgotten

The Hill

Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro said that the crimes of the Holocaust should be forgiven but should not be forgotten, according to an Associated Press report.

“We can forgive, but we cannot forget. That quote is mine. Those who forget their past are sentenced not to have a future,” Bolsonaro said on Thursday while meeting with evangelical pastors in Rio de Janeiro.

The right-wing Brazilian leader added that actions are needed to ensure that the Holocaust is not repeated.

Bolsonaro’s comments come days after he visited the Yad Vashem World Holocaust Remembrance Center in Jerusalem with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The Brazilian president made headlines after the visit when he said that there was “no doubt” that Nazism was born from a leftist movement.

Bolsonaro reportedly noted that the Nazi party's formal name included the term "socialist." Nazis followed a fascist ideology despite the word "socialist" appearing in the party's official name, which was the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

His claims have been rejected by historians who state that Nazism stemmed from right-wing radical groups reacting to the rise of communism, Reuters noted.

Just... no... by his logic...

-America should be forgiven for Ponce in Puerto Rico.

-Britain should be forgiven for not one, but two Bloody Sundays in both Dublin (1920) and Derry (1972)

-Japan should be forgiven for Nanking.

I mean just... UGH! Unfortunately, he's probably not the only one with this mentality.

And North Korea is democratic. Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

@nintendoboy16: First time a goodwin is thrown even before the thread really got going.

And as to the events you mention (idiocrazy for comparing them , but lets go with it)

How do you suggest Britain, Japan and the US pay for that?

One can possible say that forgive is just to say "move on". While not forgetting about them, we must be aware of how it developed so that we can stop early on if we are ever walking down a similar path again.

Or are we going to do Like NK and jail the children, grand children, and their children again for the crimes of their elders?

Genocide is unforgivable. It sounds like he is going to be trying to justify something in the near future. And considering he is good friends with Trump, this wouldn't be surprising.

While I don't feel that the heads that masterminded genocidal movements--the Goebbels, the Himmlers, the Pol Pots, and Stalins of the world--should be forgiven, I do think we need to be a little more understanding and forgiving of others that might have been involved. I don't think a guard at a concentration camp, or a soldier forced to execute someone, and so on, should be condemned, especially (only?) if they expressed remorse.

Bolsonaro is still an idiot, though. I imagine he is trying to get those thousands of German-Brazilian votes and support, those sons and daughters of Germans that "just so happened" to find their way to Brazil, where they probably became very wealthy.

Forgiveness isn't about those who've committed the crime, but is for the victims to choose to do to relieve them of the burden of hate towards those who've committed it. Is he saying that the crimes should be collectively forgiven? Who's to determine that? That's not at all his place to say, only those for who it has affected hold that right. People have every justification to not forgive the Nazis for what they did, and those who can forgive them hold a strength I couldn't possibly begin to comprehend.

Right wingers: murder 6 million Jews for being Jewish, then blame it on left-wingers.

**** this asshole. Seriously, **** him. Don't talk about not forgetting history and then blatantly distort it.

Atrocities should never be forgetten, and the holocaust stands as one of the most grievous genocides ever committed.

That being said, this is the smartest person they could find to lead Brazil... really?

Not exactly what happened. You see, they had a relatively smart leader. Then her party was embroiled in a corruption scandal, even though she wasn't implicated and seemed by all accounts to not be involved. Then corrupt members of her own party threw her under the bus in order to avoid punishment for their own crimes. Finally, Bolsonaro ran on a platform of anti-corruption, as proto-fascists often do (for the most egregious example see Yeltsin become leader of Russia by opposing the government using tanks to intimidate parliament, then using tanks himself to intimidate parliament). And don't think that the ridiculous shit he says is due to idiocy. It's disturbingly calculated, even though it is idiotic.

citation?

You do know that Japan was part of the Axis Powers when they massacred Nanking right?

Not up to him to forgive.

Of course, but comparing that to the Holocaust is still insane.

But I guess you also compare Hiroshima and Nagasaki to the holocaust?

Fascism is an extremist form of government that combines strict economic socialism, authoritarian single party government, and fervent nationalism. It is a dichotomy of extremes and gained ground as a political force starting around 1913 in a response to bourgeois capitalism.

The party was created to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism. Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric, although this was later downplayed to gain the support of business leaders working under government oversight, and in the 1930s the party's main focus shifted to anti-Semitic and anti-Marxist themes.

Although the economic and governmental structure of the Nazi party mirrored far left ideology, the National German Socialist Workers Party is generally considered a far right party because of its fervent Nationalism and authoritarian civic structures.

As a follow up, I’d like to note how positions have switched over the last 100 years in political perspectives.

Authoritarianism, with strict governmental control and steadfast “rule of law” structure is generally frowned on in right wing political parties in modern times, with a preference for smaller government, and individual freedoms. While Nationalism, once a staple of far left Communist governments such as the Soviet Union and the People’s Republic of China is now seen as a right wing ideology.

Politics are always very fluid.

Well he was recently forbidden by a judge from celebrating Brazil's military dictatorship. Not surprised by his choice of words.

I might also add it worked with ring wing parties and considered itself to be right wing.

Well, at least you recognize that the fascist movement has always been diametrically opposed to Marxism to the point of imprisoning and killing Marxists alongside homosexuals, gypsies, and Jews. However, fascist economics never looked anything like far left ideology. Fascist economics is predicated, first and foremost, on the buildup of the military. Seeing as how leftists around the world decry militarization, that's a mark against any similarities. Fascists also oversaw mass privatization of their economies, again, a mark against similarities. And Fascists cracked down on unions in order to give corporations unlimited power over the working conditions in their workplaces, another mark against similarities. The only real similarity is that both communist and fascist government exerted control over the economy (and I'd like to point out here that Soviet-associated nations are not the only governments that can be considered far-left, so this can't be universalized to all leftists). However, where the Soviets generally assumed direct state control over many businesses, fascists preferred to set up a system where business leaders had direct access to the government and enjoyed benefits from this access in exchange for compliance. If all of that mirrors any economic ideology very closely, it's modern Republican ideology.

Hmm, thanks for the background info.

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have overlooked his cunning and political bullshitery. He is called the Brazilian Trump after all. Just another populist leader who will promise all manner of short-term fixes, but will end up being real bad for the country in the long-term.

@theone86:

Your mistaken on a few points, neither the Nazi government or the Fascist governments of Italy or Spain privatized their economies. In fact it was exactly the opposite. The single party government controlled all aspects of the economy, both at the corporate level and the single citizen level. For instance Volkswagen literally translates to “the people’s car”, Volkswagen being the automobile manufacturing branch of the German government. It has sense privatized of course. Unions are a function of capitalist economies, to insure worker rights and leverage blue collar interests agains those of the employers, and in a government ran economic system they have no place, hence no unions in fascist Germany, Italy, Spain or the Communist Soviet bloc.

The distain of military power and function is a product of liberalism, a different philosophy then that of Marxism, Communism, and of course Fascism. A good example of this is the Soviet Union and China, both Communist state. The Soviets built their entire economy around military production, and ended up bankrupt, and as of this very day China has the largest army in the world.

The reason for Fascism being in direct conflict with Marxism and by extension Communism is a matter of the definition of ownership. In a communist state, the people own everything, and the government serves as a power of attorney so to speak, divvying up and rationing goods and production for the good (or ill) of the people. Fascism is authoritarian and the state claims supreme ownership of everything. The people serve the state, not the other way around. In practice, the outcome is pretty much the same, with the government controlling all the capital. It’s worth noting how views so polar opposite in theory, blur into the same economic structure in practice.

Don’t confuse modern day leftists with the Bolsheviks and National Socialists of the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. Although both embrace socialism in economic practice, the core beliefs of governmental policy is nowadays completely different.

I mean he's not completely wrong. Should the current generation of Germans be at fault for what Nazi Germany did? Should the current generation of European Americans be at fault for slavery? Should Turkey be at fault for the genocide of Europeans/Asians?

The party never referred to themselves as NAZI's, it was a name given to them. They had both left and right wing leaning policies. They were ethno-nationalists (right wing) with socialist (left wing) policies.

You do realize a person can have right and left wing views right? It is not exclusive to one side?

Yes! We call them centrists, which the Nazis weren't all. And anyone who was "left" within the Nazis were probably betrayed, hell, Nazi Germany BETRAYED their far-left allies, the Soviet Union.

Given how we've had and continue to have "genocide" as a concept that happens afterwords, we aren't remembering well enough.

So you believe we should harbor eternal eneminity? I dont quite get what you are trying to say.