PS4 Install Question

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d_parker

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#1 d_parker
Member since 2005 • 2128 Posts

Just got a PS4 and what really makes me shake my head for Sony's bottom line is the size retail games take up on the harddrive. I know you can get a larger harddrive but even a 2 TB will fill up quickly and it looks like having hundreds of games installed on your PS4 (like you could with your PS3) is not going to be possible.

Can someone tell me why games have to be installed to the harddrive and cannot run like they did on the PS3?

If is a copyright thing, then it's a damn shame because I imagine there are plenty of people like me who won't be buying games just to try them out and will pretty selective given the limited harddrive space available. I cannot see the current install requirements being very helpful for the game market at all.

And for those who say, just uninstall the game - well, sorry but I don't feel like re-installing The Last of Us (or whatever) whenever I want to play multi-player.

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Xanatos357

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#2 Xanatos357
Member since 2015 • 787 Posts

Something I would also like to know

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SolidTy

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#3  Edited By SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

Mandatory installs were the way both the Xbone and PS4 systems were designed. Luckily, the PS4 installs are lighting fast by comparison to my Xbone...but it's annoying that installs can take up precious HDD space on both my consoles, even for my 2TB Batman PS4 HDD. Luckily, installs are easy to delete without any risk to the game saves.

The question is why? Well, these games are massive, bigger than ever before.

The transfer rates on HDD are much quicker than on a blu-ray drive which is a huge benefit to the gamer.

The big reason that games have to be installed on the harddrive is that it’s simply faster to access things from the harddrive compared to the Blu-ray drive. Despite the fact that the Blu-ray drive in the PlayStation 4 is 3 times faster than the one in the PS3, the BD drive speed is still no match for the harddrive.

Game developers also complained to Sony about long loading times, so Sony simply went ahead and made sure that all games on the PlayStation 4 install automatically to the harddrive. The process happens automatically and runs in the background. According to PS4 creator Mark Cerny, players will have to wait about 10 seconds the first time they start playing. After they start playing the transfer happens in the background while the game runs.

For example, Knack will take up 37 GB of disk space on the PlayStation 4, but players won’t have to transfer all of that at once. It happens seamlessly in the background as the game goes on.

As for storage space, Cerny says that they thought of automatically deleting the cache on the harddrive, since it takes up so much space. But they decided against it, and instead left it up to the user to delete game content on the console.

tl;dr?

We gamers are getting much faster loading times, but now we are being tasked with managing installs. I'll take it though. Every single game that allowed for an optional install on PS3, I ALWAYS DID IT. When the Xbox 360 finally allowed installs, I ALWAYS DID IT. I for one love the benefits of faster loading.

Life is too short, GAME ON!

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deactivated-58bd60b980002

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#4 deactivated-58bd60b980002
Member since 2004 • 2016 Posts

I was also surprized by how much space each games takes.

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raugutcon

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#5 raugutcon
Member since 2014 • 5576 Posts

I understand your feelings

I like owning what I paid for, I like the physical possession of my purchase; it does´t matter if it´s physical format ( disk, cartridge ) or digital format and one of the thing that bugs me is not being able of have the physical possession of my purchase whenever I want it specially when it comes to digital content; I don´t mind having to install or uninstall a game when I own the physical format, the PoS4 is a great machine in that aspect and does both in an eye blink, all I need to have is enough space in the HDD to do that, works fine as long as I´m in possession of the disk but digital is another story, there are digital games that have no physical format or I decided to purchase the digital version and if I paid for it I want to have it at any time whenever it pleases me, for me the " you can delete it and download it anytime " doesn´t work and with modern day games that are 30 + gigs in size a stock 500 GB is not big enough, yeah, you can upgrade the HDD in the PoS4 to up to 2 TB but still, is not comparable to the capacity the PS3 had, 500 GB in a PS3 allowed you to purchase and have a ton of games but the same does´t apply to the PoS4 even with a 2 TB HDD; in the case of modern consoles we are limited to the use of 2.5" HDDs ( if they allowed the use of regular 3.5" HDDs I would´t be whining ) I think Sony should allow the use of external HDDs to store games just like the X1 does ( heck, now even the X360 does that ).

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#6 d_parker
Member since 2005 • 2128 Posts

@SolidTy:

Thanks for the information - appreciated.

Faster load times are great but I just can't help feeling this design will contribute towards a drop in video game sales.

I prefer to have any many games as possible available to me but install time aside and I'm probably not going not to buy the quantity of games I did for the PS3 simply because I don't want the hassle. Evolve on sale at Best Buy got a pass because I'd rather save that harddrive space for a better game.

For the record, after I got my PS4 500GB, before I installed anything, it was at 408GB free - just in case anyone out there thinking of making the purchase is curious about just how much room you get/need. As well, a game like Ghosts says it needs 50GB just it just took up around 35 (but that doesn't factor in DLC though).

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#7  Edited By SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

@d_parker: You are welcome. I'm glad you appreciated the answer.

As far as losing space on HDDs? Not sure if you owned a 360 or PS3 last gen, but it was the same thing. I remember my launch 2005 360 had 20GB HDD but when I got home I had about 11-12GB of actual space (bear with me it was 10 years ago, so I can't remember the exact number). Laughably, 20GB was the largest HDD size they had at launch 2005 for the 360, the alternative was the Core which had no HDD. The 20GB HDD for 360 was $100!

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#8 d_parker
Member since 2005 • 2128 Posts

@SolidTy: Well, I'm coming from having a 250 & 500 GB PS3 with a ton of games installed. Used to just like to buy a game on the cheap to see if they were worthwhile, but now remaining HDD space is the factor now, not price, that will decide the issue.

An external HDD for large single player games would be nice and the MP games could sit on the main HD but I understand external HDDs are not possible at this stage of the game.

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#9  Edited By SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

@d_parker: You are telling me! I have a 1TB PS3 and another 1.5TB PS3 with tons and tons of games installed. I remember installing those larger HDDs in my PS3s many years back. I have all my games organized on my PS3 as Retail, SEGA, TellTale, Fighting games, RPGs, Resident Evil, etc.

I too only buy DD games on the cheap. I never in my life bought a full priced DD game and I never will since I'm a collector and prefer physical copies. That said, I got so many cheap DD copies that I needed the space years ago and upgraded the HDDs of my PS3s. I have so much DD content on my PS3 that I would need 1TB to back it up. 500GB wouldn't serve my needs as it's too small for the amount of games I own. I knew going into the default sizes of the new PS4/Xbone that their default 500GB was going to be horrible for me in a matter of months.

I've had the PS3 since 2006 launch and over the years I now find myself with 4 PS3s each connected to an HDTV in the house. Luckily, I have family that can enjoy the machines and stay away from my main machines in the livingroom.

A few drawbacks to externals is first I hate the bulk, they take up a USB slot on the machine, and they look ugly on the shelf connected to the console (not pleasing to the eye). I want a really aesthetically pleasing console with no extra giant attachments connected to the USB slots. I use those USBs for charging controllers. Also, technically speaking, an external can have a much slower loading speed due to the slower USB connection. This is why whenever it is possible, people like me always prefer the internal HDD upgrade, which is what I did with my multiple 360s, multiple PS3s, multiple PCs, and now PS4. I know people are different and have different needs though. That's just me.

Anyways, at the very least at least you understand why installs are used on PS4/Xbone this generation. It's sort of a bummer as they do eat up space, but thankfully in the PS4s case, installs are quite speedy by comparison to the Xbone.

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#10 coasterguy65
Member since 2005 • 7133 Posts

The one thing that annoys me is there is no way to go in and just uninstall the huge game file without removing updates and DLC. Basically I wish Sony would give us the same options we had on the 360. Where you could actually go into the folders and pick what you wanted to remove. With the PS4 it's all or nothing. If I remove a game I don't want to have to re-download the updates, and the DLC. I just want to remove the main game, and then when I want to play it again. I can just insert the disc, and let it re-install the game.

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#11 d_parker
Member since 2005 • 2128 Posts

@coasterguy65: That's a brilliant idea. Got Killzone only to find its maps are a 6GB download - it'll be a pain to redownload them again one day when the game is deleted.

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#12 Alex839
Member since 2015 • 151 Posts

@d_parker: Especially with the horrible download speeds on PS4, i don`t understand how they messed that up. One instant it goes fast then suddenly it goes slow & stays that way for a long time. I didn`t have these problems on PS3 & X360.

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#13  Edited By SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

@alex839 said:

@d_parker: Especially with the horrible download speeds on PS4, i don`t understand how they messed that up. One instant it goes fast then suddenly it goes slow & stays that way for a long time. I didn`t have these problems on PS3 & X360.

I have super fast DL speeds on all my systems (PC, PS3, 360, Wii, Xbone, 3DS, Vita), the DL speeds are especially fast on the PS4 compared to the PS3.

I don't buy what I consider horrible ripoffs that Digital Downloads are trying to sell to people (companies save money not printing a disc, not having to ship the product, not having to pay retail middlemen a percentage, and they still charge full price, RIPOFF), so I haven't had the luxury of trying to download a giant-sized full retail game (25-50GB) since I buy retail games at the store so I can gift/sell/trade/borrow/lend/rent/"value collect" the game after I'm done.

Methinks there is something else going on, perhaps your router or ISP.

Also, the explanation could be much simpler:

You also have to consider that last gen PS360 game sizes were generally 4-7.5GB of space and this gen we have games that are 50GB on PS4. Perhaps it's not the PS4's speed you are comparing, but rather giant game size downloads you haven't factored in.

Imagine comparing the DL speeds of a NES game to a PS2 game. NES DLs would be super fast by comparison.

Have you honestly tried downloading the same file size game on PS3, 360, or PS4? Perhaps the same game like Titan Attacks, Entwine, Limbo, or Journey? If you haven't done a proper test finding games that are close to the same size (1GB for example), it's unfair to say the PS4 DL speeds are the issue when the main culprit is probably the actual GIANT file sizes of modern PS4 games that you are downloading.

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#14  Edited By Alex839
Member since 2015 • 151 Posts

@SolidTy: I`ve read on multiple occasions that a lot of people have poor DL speeds on PS4, i don`t think the size is the issue. For example, download speeds on my X360 is always fast, same thing when i had PS3. But if i start downloading something on PS4 sometimes it goes super fast then all of a sudden the speed considerably drops, even if something is 900 MB, it makes no sense.

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#15 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

@alex839: Well, you know you can't really personally vet each and every user that posts something. That said, I have read on multiple occasions that a lot of people have fast DL speeds on PS4 which coincides with my personal experience owning two PS4s (one since launch 2013).

A lot of people may have old Wifi Routers causing bottlenecks or issues, poor ethernet connections, maybe they need a bridge, or their ISP is being throttled when they DL a lot and with the PS4 people DL a lot more due to game sizes.