PS Plus is killing vita

#1 Posted by Celsius765 (704 posts) -

I've been thinking for a while now ps plus is nice but it's killing the vita with it's free game offerings. I'm thinking not many vita owners buy games anymore outside of discounts and the free game offerings. What if free games went away but you still got your discounts or they limited it to 2 free games how would you feel and do yo you think Vita would thrive that way. I do since devs would be able to make money on vita games again

#2 Posted by cyloninside (496 posts) -

I've been thinking for a while now ps plus is nice but it's killing the vita with it's free game offerings. I'm thinking not many vita owners buy games anymore outside of discounts and the free game offerings. What if free games went away but you still got your discounts or they limited it to 2 free games how would you feel and do yo you think Vita would thrive that way. I do since devs would be able to make money on vita games again

PS+ games arent free.... the developers get paid by sony when their game is offered on PS+. Sony has been fairly unwilling to talk about the specifics regarding how PS+ actually works in terms of financials.... but the developers DO receive compensation.

so its not like the developers are losing money when their game is offered on PS+..... infact they may be making more money because sony im sure pays them based on projected downloads, which may be much higher than what they would have sold in physical or digital copies.

#3 Edited by Celsius765 (704 posts) -

I'd still prefer people bought games so developers would see the value in vita

#4 Posted by SoNin360 (5446 posts) -

Looking at all the Vita games I've played, more have come from the Instant Games Collection than I've actually bought. So yeah, maybe you have a point. But I don't know if this really negatively impacts devs, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing quality games on the Instant Games Collections. If anything, I think PS+ actually makes the Vita look more enticing to purchase. It's definitely helped me get my money's worth out of the service, especially with having a PS3 as well.

#5 Edited by porkchopxp (1153 posts) -

There is a huge initiative at Sony to have every Vita game also available across the PS3 and PS4 to off-set the smaller install base of the Vita; which is fine by me. It might mean fewer 3rd-party, Vita exclusive support but it will insure that there will be enough games to explore and play on Vita if we're so inclined to choose that version of any game offered for all three platforms. Not an ideal future for the Vita but at least there will be one.

#6 Posted by MethodManFTW (25660 posts) -

The install base is so small.. I would have to imagine PS+ does more good than harm for Vita.

#7 Edited by marlobc (802 posts) -

i think plus is the only reason vitas are still sold , but thats just me

#8 Posted by bunchanumbers (801 posts) -

It is killing the Vita. Or maybe I should say killed the vita. There's only 1 million seller and that's Uncharted. 8.4 million Vitas have been sold and only 1 game has been over 1 million. If you look at it vs Wii U which has an even smaller user base than Vita and still has 6 games that have sold over 1 million. Those 6 games account for over 12 and a half million games sales. Vita can't say this and its PS+ fault.

#9 Posted by bezza2011 (2416 posts) -

I have to agree with the others, PS+ is doing Vita the world of good, end of the day, it isn't selling well at all, and it's starting to just be a companion to the PS4 now, and for me I have not much interest in hand held games but because I have PS+ I am saving all my Vita games for it and will be buying a Vita at the end of the year, for me it's a win win, I get a full game library and I get to see what Vita's all about, there are still some big games to buy for it i guess.

#10 Edited by bunchanumbers (801 posts) -

@bezza2011: PS+ doesn't promote game sales. One of the most common things you hear when PS+ is involved is, "Eh. I'll wait until its free on PS+". Even when its a new game. This means that many games don't get the sales or profits they would normally get if customers were to purchase normally. PS+ games is great for the players, but its killing Vita and game development for it.

#11 Edited by tempura13 (463 posts) -

Mixed feelings.

Even if someone isn't interested in the Vita at first, they'll steadily accumulate a digital backlog of games every month as long as the subscription is active. After a while, they have no choice but to finally get the Vita. Hey, free games are free! And if they have a PS4, remote play makes it more enticing. Also, PSNow.

However, some would rather wait for Vita games to be offered on PS+, often asking if a particular game (seriously, even games released like three days ago) will make it in the IGC. There's nothing wrong with this and a few exclusive titles do end up in the offerings (like Soul Sacrifice). At the very least, these games will get a huge discount (again, courtesy of PS+) for those who are patient enough to hold out the purchase at launch.

But I find it odd that lots would still complain about the "lack" of games, but refuse to support them when they're made. Where were these people when Killzone: Mercenary was made? How about Tearaway? Or the handful of localized Japanese Vita games?

But I'm more impressed with the software attach ratio of the Vita, showing how dedicated its relatively small user base when it comes to buying games. That's why localization companies love the platform. They know that Vita folks actually buy stuff as long as you deliver content.

#12 Posted by MondasM (1237 posts) -

i do think it's the opposite, ps + is really pushing the sales of vita up, since it offers a wide range of titles at virtually no extra cost...

#13 Posted by bezza2011 (2416 posts) -

@bunchanumbers: fact is they've bailed on the PS Vita it is just a add on to the PS4 now, it just didn't sell as well as they needed and for them it's to much of a gamble to invest in it, yes it's sad for us gamers but the fact is, there ain't that many people who own one, and if you do own one, it's a bit disheartening but your one of a very few who do. but you never know sales may pick back up again with the whole remote play and you may get more games in the future, PS+ is helping to sell systems, and i'm afraid that's reality of it,

#14 Posted by jasean79 (2371 posts) -

The install base is so small.. I would have to imagine PS+ does more good than harm for Vita.

This.

Plus, I love the Vita. It's a shame more people aren't on board with it.

#15 Posted by tempura13 (463 posts) -

@bunchanumbers: fact is they've bailed on the PS Vita it is just a add on to the PS4 now, it just didn't sell as well as they needed and for them it's to much of a gamble to invest in it, yes it's sad for us gamers but the fact is, there ain't that many people who own one, and if you do own one, it's a bit disheartening but your one of a very few who do. but you never know sales may pick back up again with the whole remote play and you may get more games in the future, PS+ is helping to sell systems, and i'm afraid that's reality of it,

I want to think that SCEA wants to keep the platform afloat with minimal costs (namely indies, ports, remote play and PSNow support), practically letting SCEE, SCEJA, and the rest of Japan to support the thing with (mostly) exclusive content. After all, they need to focus more on the PS4.

But still, it's very disappointing that SCEA seems to display lack of faith/confidence in its own product.

#16 Posted by bezza2011 (2416 posts) -

@tempura13: True but I don't think there in a position to push it, as a company only the Playstation division seem's to be making them profit, or at least the largest part, I feel the handheld market is such a niche market, it's to much of a financial risk to truly support it, it's a real shame if they was in a different position then that would be great, but again if things pick up people start picking up vita's sales get better ps now kicks off ps tv starts working maybe they'll start making more games for it.

#17 Posted by Jaysonguy (37631 posts) -

The install base is so small.. I would have to imagine PS+ does more good than harm for Vita.

Correct answer, anything to the contrary is wrong.

Playstation Plus has breathed new life into the Vita. I don't understand how some people think that games that are rentals on Playstation Plus are just taken with no compensation. Sony has been paying devs to have their games featured on the service. It's a huge safety net at this point to encourage devs to make software for the handheld.

More importantly it's got people interested in the Vita because the upfront costs are minimal now. You buy the hardware and you get different genres of games to try out before you need to plunk down any sizable chunk of dough on software you may end up not liking.

#18 Edited by bunchanumbers (801 posts) -

@MethodManFTW said:

The install base is so small.. I would have to imagine PS+ does more good than harm for Vita.

Correct answer, anything to the contrary is wrong.

Playstation Plus has breathed new life into the Vita. I don't understand how some people think that games that are rentals on Playstation Plus are just taken with no compensation. Sony has been paying devs to have their games featured on the service. It's a huge safety net at this point to encourage devs to make software for the handheld.

More importantly it's got people interested in the Vita because the upfront costs are minimal now. You buy the hardware and you get different genres of games to try out before you need to plunk down any sizable chunk of dough on software you may end up not liking.

PS+ is actively discouraging new game sales. People won't buy a game when it will just be free on PS+ months later. At this rate a new game purchase is almost like paying for timed exclusivity until the game hits PS+ 6 months down the road. And once the game hits ps+ there's no reason to go out and buy the game. After all you already have it for free. You can say otherwise but PS+ is not going to lead to more game sales. This also means that its not going to lead to more big 3rd party games appearing on Vita.

#19 Posted by Jaysonguy (37631 posts) -

@Jaysonguy said:

@MethodManFTW said:

The install base is so small.. I would have to imagine PS+ does more good than harm for Vita.

Correct answer, anything to the contrary is wrong.

Playstation Plus has breathed new life into the Vita. I don't understand how some people think that games that are rentals on Playstation Plus are just taken with no compensation. Sony has been paying devs to have their games featured on the service. It's a huge safety net at this point to encourage devs to make software for the handheld.

More importantly it's got people interested in the Vita because the upfront costs are minimal now. You buy the hardware and you get different genres of games to try out before you need to plunk down any sizable chunk of dough on software you may end up not liking.

PS+ is actively discouraging new game sales. People won't buy a game when it will just be free on PS+ months later. At this rate a new game purchase is almost like paying for timed exclusivity until the game hits PS+ 6 months down the road. And once the game hits ps+ there's no reason to go out and buy the game. After all you already have it for free. You can say otherwise but PS+ is not going to lead to more game sales. This also means that its not going to lead to more big 3rd party games appearing on Vita.

That doesn't happen though, I know it for a fact.

Not all games will be part of the Plus promotion and moreso the ones that will be part of it wont be for some time.

The idea that "I'll just wait for it to be on Plus" hasn't hurt the PS3 in the least, actually the service has helped keep goodwill between Sony and developers. The same reason it was brought over to the PS4 and the Vita. A developer that gets his or her game on Plus is compensated for it, they're not losing sales.

As for big third party that's exactly what Plus is there for.

Without Plus around for the Vita a big publisher is taking a big risk putting the game out for the handheld. With Plus that risk is almost negligible because if for some reason the game fails to sell well it can be added to the Plus lineup of games and the costs can be recouped that way instead.

#20 Posted by bunchanumbers (801 posts) -

Without Plus it encourages gamers to buy the games they are interested in (not want but interested in) and support developers. Without plus you'll see game sales rise up to respectable levels and encourage 3rd party devs to make games for it. 3DS has 6 or 7 third party games that have sold over a million units. Monster Hunter 4 has sold over 3 million units. I guarantee you that if a publisher had their choice of selling a million units or getting some money from Sony to be on PS+, they would take the game sales.

#21 Posted by MethodManFTW (25660 posts) -

Without Plus it encourages gamers to buy the games they are interested in (not want but interested in) and support developers. Without plus you'll see game sales rise up to respectable levels and encourage 3rd party devs to make games for it. 3DS has 6 or 7 third party games that have sold over a million units. Monster Hunter 4 has sold over 3 million units. I guarantee you that if a publisher had their choice of selling a million units or getting some money from Sony to be on PS+, they would take the game sales.

How many games on the Vita could sell a million copies? The 3DS is more popular than the Vita by quite a large amount, though that is irrelevant in this forum as it is just a Playstation forum. But I disagree with your generalizations about gamers purchasing habits.. Any Vita game I really want, I'm not gonna wait months for the chance of it going on sale/being free.. The only two Vita games I have really really wanted so far were Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 and Persona 4 and I bought both of them right away.. And there are plenty of other games I have got on my Vita because of Steam-esque sales.

#22 Posted by bunchanumbers (801 posts) -

@MethodManFTW: The only game Vita has that has sold over a million is Uncharted. Everything else has sold under a million units.

#23 Posted by Firosen (427 posts) -

I'm pretty much limited to physical games and whatever my memory card can hold with my Vita. I love that little console, and PS+ is an amazing program, but when you travel as much as I do for as long as I do, constantly downloading the latest-and-greatest over a less-than-optimal network connection becomes a non-option. I'd love to see some more physical releases, but until that user base increases I'll be playing through the Gravity Rush DLC and FFX again (not that either disappoint me by any means).

#24 Posted by tempura13 (463 posts) -

@bunchanumbers said:

PS+ is actively discouraging new game sales. People won't buy a game when it will just be free on PS+ months later. At this rate a new game purchase is almost like paying for timed exclusivity until the game hits PS+ 6 months down the road. And once the game hits ps+ there's no reason to go out and buy the game. After all you already have it for free. You can say otherwise but PS+ is not going to lead to more game sales. This also means that its not going to lead to more big 3rd party games appearing on Vita.

That doesn't happen though, I know it for a fact.

Not all games will be part of the Plus promotion and moreso the ones that will be part of it wont be for some time.

The idea that "I'll just wait for it to be on Plus" hasn't hurt the PS3 in the least, actually the service has helped keep goodwill between Sony and developers. The same reason it was brought over to the PS4 and the Vita. A developer that gets his or her game on Plus is compensated for it, they're not losing sales.

As for big third party that's exactly what Plus is there for.

Without Plus around for the Vita a big publisher is taking a big risk putting the game out for the handheld. With Plus that risk is almost negligible because if for some reason the game fails to sell well it can be added to the Plus lineup of games and the costs can be recouped that way instead.

I understand where he's getting at.

The Vita had a very rough time since launch - naysayers of the handheld are widespread, people are confusing it for a new iteration of the PSP, software droughts, etc. Unlike the already established PS3, the Vita only had a handful of exclusives during that time frame.

When the Vita got a bunch of fighting games for months in the IGC, people complained about it. Same story happened when indies started popping out in the offerings. So yes, it's not hard to assume that PS+ does affect Vita game sales (not just games already part of the collection) when you see people doing wishlists for the IGC, then complain the next month if the game they wanted wasn't included. Of course, they're not the majority of Vita owners, but they do give that impression.

And with all of the negativity that the Vita got, it's also not surprising that people aren't willing to invest more on the handheld. In fact, PS+ is already sufficient enough for the games, especially if you own other consoles. You're already getting games every month, and an exclusive game in the offering is just icing, right?

Without Plus it encourages gamers to buy the games they are interested in (not want but interested in) and support developers. Without plus you'll see game sales rise up to respectable levels and encourage 3rd party devs to make games for it. 3DS has 6 or 7 third party games that have sold over a million units. Monster Hunter 4 has sold over 3 million units. I guarantee you that if a publisher had their choice of selling a million units or getting some money from Sony to be on PS+, they would take the game sales.

All things considered though, Vita owners still purchase lots of software, so I wouldn't worry just yet. Also, with all the niche Japanese games coming to the handheld, they don't need to sell millions to be successful (especially new IPs). If they do reach that milestone, even better! And Sony's making money with those evil and expensive proprietary cards anyway since you'll need a large one to fully utilize your PS+ games :3

#25 Posted by dipdish (868 posts) -

Some PS3/PS4 owners buy the Vita to solely play PS Plus offerings. It helps the hardware sales. But Sony's "no more first party support" and "Vita became a remote play accessory" talk kills the Vita day by day. Vita gamers make Twitter campaigns almost every other day to make Sony listen to them.

#26 Posted by The_Last_Ride (71269 posts) -

@Celsius765: That is silly, because all of the devs get money for the PS+. If you are waiting for games to drop on PS+, you're cheap. I've bought several Vita games because i think they're worth it.

#27 Posted by Gelugon_baat (19413 posts) -

PS+ games arent free.... the developers get paid by sony when their game is offered on PS+. Sony has been fairly unwilling to talk about the specifics regarding how PS+ actually works in terms of financials.... but the developers DO receive compensation.

so its not like the developers are losing money when their game is offered on PS+..... infact they may be making more money because sony im sure pays them based on projected downloads, which may be much higher than what they would have sold in physical or digital copies.

How do you all know this? Do you have someone at Sony telling you how things work, or is this just supposition?

#28 Posted by cyloninside (496 posts) -

@cyloninside said:

PS+ games arent free.... the developers get paid by sony when their game is offered on PS+. Sony has been fairly unwilling to talk about the specifics regarding how PS+ actually works in terms of financials.... but the developers DO receive compensation.

so its not like the developers are losing money when their game is offered on PS+..... infact they may be making more money because sony im sure pays them based on projected downloads, which may be much higher than what they would have sold in physical or digital copies.

How do you all know this? Do you have someone at Sony telling you how things work, or is this just supposition?

google is hard yo?

hell.... there was an article on IGN like 2 weeks ago about this very subject....it is no big mystery.

#29 Posted by Gelugon_baat (19413 posts) -

@cyloninside:

Really, all you have as an answer is "Google it"? I have heard that kind of reply from people who are too lazy to immediately give a source.

Alright, I will bite that anyway.

I have done a Google search centered on IGN, with one month back (to cover your claim of an article 2 weeks ago "about this very subject" and the search words "ps plus developer compensation" - words which you have used in your claim.

All I get is official IGN articles which doesn't mention PS Plus, and the rest are forum threads.

So where is this article, really? I suppose that it is very easy for you to say that this exists somewhere and somehow without giving a direct link, and even easier saying "Google it" without giving the necessary keywords for the search.

#30 Posted by cyloninside (496 posts) -

@cyloninside:

Really, all you have as an answer is "Google it"? I have heard that kind of reply from people who are too lazy to immediately give a source.

Alright, I will bite that anyway.

I have done a Google search centered on IGN, with one month back (to cover your claim of an article 2 weeks ago "about this very subject" and the search words "ps plus developer compensation" - words which you have used in your claim.

All I get is official IGN articles which doesn't mention PS Plus, and the rest are forum threads.

So where is this article, really? I suppose that it is very easy for you to say that this exists somewhere and somehow without giving a direct link, and even easier saying "Google it" without giving the necessary keywords for the search.

not having this conversation with you gelugon. you are literally the -last- person on this forum that i would ever bother to take time out of my day to find "evidence" for. i told you where i found the information. do your own homework or piss off.

go ahead and come back with whatever snarky message you have on file. *shrugs* it doesnt phase me.

#31 Posted by Gelugon_baat (19413 posts) -

not having this conversation with you gelugon. you are literally the -last- person on this forum that i would ever bother to take time out of my day to find "evidence" for. i told you where i found the information. do your own homework or piss off.

go ahead and come back with whatever snarky message you have on file. *shrugs* it doesnt phase me.

If you are going to say that, then I would say that all that you have claimed about compensation for developers from the PSN+ free games scheme is just inference borne from speculation.

You have nothing concrete, cyloninside, else you would have produced it. Instead, all you did is put the burden of research on others - something that I have seen lazy people who think that their opinions are truth do.