Is "The Last of Us" overrated?

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#101 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@Marduke1913

Actually it should cost $30 since movies are priced fairly.

#102 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@cooolio

Cutsenes suck ! Not because of whats in the cutscenes, but because IT IS a cutscene !

Anyway, its sucks playing a video game where the creators try to force you to experience their specific vision, and that requires the player to give up alil control, or alot of control. You can see that alot in The Last Of Us.

#103 Posted by donalbane (16362 posts) -

Yes and no, IMO... I think the writing and pacing are top drawer right up there with Ken Levine and Rockstar, but the game play and graphics, while still above average, are not the game's strong suits. The Gameplay is definitely more interesting than Uncharted, so kudos for that, but it's still not what makes the game special to me. And I think the game looks good, no doubt, but it's not the reason to play it... it's the wonderful writing, for me any way.

#104 Edited by Maddie_Larkin (6559 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu:

kind of agree. Especially the way the game constantly breaks internal logic. The worst offender has to be the listen butten, where you can hear anything around you, except when the game does not want you to hear the person waiting to ambush you in the NeXT room, despite you should have all the ability to notice him. Which happened alot in that game if I remember correctly -.-

#105 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@Maddie_Larkin

And thats why games should avoid being Realistic at all costs. Except if the realism is fun and makes sense. Which is highly unlikely.

#106 Edited by _Judas_ (748 posts) -

@Maddie_Larkin: The listen button does excatly that -- listening! It's suppose to be like a focused listening button. If you pay attention to the game, you will notice that you only hear things that make noise. A person standing perfectly still won't make any noise. So when fighting the human enemies and they are all behind cover, waiting for you, the listening button is not going to do you any good. If you toss a bottle or a brick, this person will react to that thus making some noise and appearing in listen mode.

This becomes extremely important in MP as if you stay quiet, you can bypass the other players and do silent takedowns. If you press the listening button online and only two players appear, that means the other 2-3 are in hiding, being stationary some place.

#107 Posted by Sepewrath (28732 posts) -

@donalbane said:

Yes and no, IMO... I think the writing and pacing are top drawer right up there with Ken Levine and Rockstar, but the game play and graphics, while still above average, are not the game's strong suits. The Gameplay is definitely more interesting than Uncharted, so kudos for that, but it's still not what makes the game special to me. And I think the game looks good, no doubt, but it's not the reason to play it... it's the wonderful writing, for me any way.

Have to disagree with you there, I think Uncharted has superior gameplay. The overall gameplay is basically the same, but Uncharted offers greater variety, with the platforming and puzzles. I think the game has a strong story and character work, but that's nothing we haven't seen before, including from Naughty Dog themselves. But overall, gameplay included, there are better games out there. I did enjoy it though.

#108 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@Sepewrath

Actually the Platforming and Puzzles were the worst parts of All Uncharted games, There was nothing wrong with the fire fights and thats pretty much the only good thing I can say about it.

#109 Posted by dakan45 (18621 posts) -

I loved uncharted not the last of us though. Graphics are blurry, the shooting is a bit off and the ai is horrible What pisses me off is the repetition, ladder this plank that...come on, feels like a game that would have been better if it was shorter, as it is its drags out and becomes borring.

In my opinon its the worst game naughty dog has made, that doesnt make it mad, just not as good.

Seems to be getting most of ratings for the zombie setting and the narrative rather you know the actual gameplay. It needs polish in gameplay.

Ofcourse the fanboys wil never agree with me, but giving this game 10/10 as if it revolutionized gaming with the best graphics, gameplay with depth, amazing ai and physics or innovated...well no just no. Its just that there were aot of bad games when it was released and still are.

Atleast nauhgty dog makes you care about the characters and dont ruin their games with crappy sequels.

#110 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@dakan45

I can make the same critism about Uncharted's gameplay. For some reason it seems like Naught Dog has changed for the worse.

#111 Posted by dakan45 (18621 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: Remember the open world in jak and daxter 2? wtf happened?

#112 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@dakan45

I don't know.... I'm sure all those people who gaveUncharted and TLOU a perfect score based on story and graphics will have answer to that.

#113 Posted by Sepewrath (28732 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@Sepewrath

Actually the Platforming and Puzzles were the worst parts of All Uncharted games, There was nothing wrong with the fire fights and thats pretty much the only good thing I can say about it.

I think the gun battles were the weakest part of the game. Very shallow and one note encounters, its was generic cover based shooting 101. The platforming kept it interesting to me, if it had just been a straight TPS, I would find the series very boring.

#114 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@Sepewrath

Really ? Do you often play other games with adventure elements (puzzles) ?

#115 Posted by cooolio (496 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: Eh. I feel like these days, you either except that a game has cutscenes or do not. What is it that you are referring to in regards to being forced to experience the creators' vision of the game and giving up all or a lot of control? And what are examples in TLOU?

#116 Posted by Sepewrath (28732 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: I am a Nintendo fan, so that's a yes lol. Zelda, Metroid, those are the kings of that action adventure genre. There are far too many better TPS experiences than Uncharted out there, to think of that as the high point of the game. Even the platforming and puzzles don't hold a candle to something like Metroid. But of the two facets of the game, I find climbing up a train hanging off the side of a mountain(even if it is highly scripted) to have been more enjoyable than "shoot,cover, grenade, shoot, cover"

#117 Posted by MethodManFTW (25781 posts) -
@Maddie_Larkin said:

@Lulu_Lulu:

The worst offender has to be the listen butten, where you can hear anything around you, except when the game does not want you to hear the person waiting to ambush you in the NeXT room, despite you should have all the ability to notice him. Which happened alot in that game if I remember correctly -.-

It happens twice in TLOU, happens a few times in each Batman games too.. Bet it happens in Splinter Cell Blacklist and Splinter Cell Conviction a few times too.. Detective vision/listen mode/etc are great mechanics, but if they were truly active all the time it would ruin set pieces.

#118 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@cooolio

The Entire Prologue.

the Entire 1st Chaper.... You know what, basicly the whole game up until the winter chaper.

#119 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@Sepewrath

Well new Zelda coming soon I think you can spare yourself some of the torture... :p.

Also have you tried Flanking ?

#120 Edited by cooolio (496 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@cooolio

The Entire Prologue.

the Entire 1st Chaper.... You know what, basicly the whole game up until the winter chaper.

You are really going to have to elaborate Lulu. I am familiar with your disappointment of how they initially hinted at having some focus on interactive narrative in the Prologue, and i believe that could very well be what you mean about being forced to experience their vision, but what more control did you want besides what was given to you in terms of movement and combat? How was this lack of player control absent up until the Winter Chapter; how did it return? Were you underwhelmed about the lack of control that you had in exploring the narrative and choosing how you progressed it, whether it be through things like the birthday card in the Prolougue?

#121 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@cooolio

I mean those scenarios with Tess and Ellie where the baddies are scripted to attack and you're not given the option to play it stealthy to conserve resources, even that area with Bill where you are forced into a counterintuive playstyle.....

But the worst part is the part of the game everybody says is the most profound.... Remember The Giraffes ? Theres a giant flaw with the way the that entire scene was set up, mostly caused by the level design.... Can you guess what that flaw is ?

#122 Posted by trav_have (5610 posts) -

Being attacked by a group of baddies is a likely scenario in that kind of a world. You can't expect to be able to play it stealthily for the entire duration of the game.

#123 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@trav_have

And if the game's mechanics reflected that then it wouldn't be an issue.

Realism great for immersion but it does didly squate for balance. I don't even particularly like the stealth in TLOU, its average at best but you don't have the resources to go all rambo during these forced action sections. Again, the mechanics are in conflict with the the game's mythos.

#124 Posted by cooolio (496 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@cooolio

I mean those scenarios with Tess and Ellie where the baddies are scripted to attack and you're not given the option to play it stealthy to conserve resources, even that area with Bill where you are forced into a counterintuive playstyle.....

But the worst part is the part of the game everybody says is the most profound.... Remember The Giraffes ? Theres a giant flaw with the way the that entire scene was set up, mostly caused by the level design.... Can you guess what that flaw is ?

No, tell me what that flaw is

#125 Edited by trav_have (5610 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@trav_have

And if the game's mechanics reflected that then it wouldn't be an issue.

Realism great for immersion but it does didly squate for balance. I don't even particularly like the stealth in TLOU, its average at best but you don't have the resources to go all rambo during these forced action sections. Again, the mechanics are in conflict with the the game's mythos.

What is wrong with the game mechanics to have it not reflect it?

You seem to be so against this game and are just looking for reasons to bash it.

#126 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@cooolio

At that point in the game you shouldve been properly conditioned to search every nook and cranny before proceeding,

after Ellie drops the ladder and runs off you're suppose to run after her, well, Some people didn't, theres a few dead ends and lil nooks on the way there, so you're conflicted between Gathering Resources and Finding out whats going on, you'l either be slightly annoyed that you missed out on some scripted event and don't even have any resources to show for it or you'l experience the scene as intended but in the back of your mind you'l wonder if you shouldve stopped to look around. Or you're playing this game on easy then its not an issue.

#127 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@trav_have

Well yeah, its the most popular game so its going to get alot of scrutiny.

Anyway its not the mechanics exactly, its the entire design, from the limited resources to the Infected's Brain Dead AI to the level design.

#128 Posted by _Judas_ (748 posts) -

@trav_have said:

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@trav_have

And if the game's mechanics reflected that then it wouldn't be an issue.

Realism great for immersion but it does didly squate for balance. I don't even particularly like the stealth in TLOU, its average at best but you don't have the resources to go all rambo during these forced action sections. Again, the mechanics are in conflict with the the game's mythos.

What is wrong with the game mechanics to have it not reflect it?

You seem to be so against this game and are just looking for reasons to bash it.

Statement by @trav_have . This guy, @Lulu_Lulu , has already made up his mind to try and belittle the game. The game is amazing, it is not overrated... I have already sent you a long, long list of great gameplay-stuff via PM, and still you keep bickering about the same things... the "brain dead" A.I reflects the infected well... it's no worse than any other third-person shooter game. Give me a good example of genius A.I. There's no such thing as a genius A.I... The level design is fantastic and sets up for great battles. You can't even go into detail, reflect, or debate the answers you give or are given...

#129 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@_Judas_

lol so your claim is The Last Of Us's AI is great because theres nothing better and I shouldn't talk about its flaws ? WOW ! ! !

True there are no smarter enemies but there are Better enemies Over All, President Evil 6's J'avo are dumber but better than the Last Of Us infected, and thats just the J'avo.

#130 Posted by cooolio (496 posts) -
@Lulu_Lulu said:

@cooolio

At that point in the game you shouldve been properly conditioned to search every nook and cranny before proceeding,

after Ellie drops the ladder and runs off you're suppose to run after her, well, Some people didn't, theres a few dead ends and lil nooks on the way there, so you're conflicted between Gathering Resources and Finding out whats going on, you'l either be slightly annoyed that you missed out on some scripted event and don't even have any resources to show for it or you'l experience the scene as intended but in the back of your mind you'l wonder if you shouldve stopped to look around. Or you're playing this game on easy then its not an issue.

Eh. I just searched for some supplies and then ran after her. I guess that I do not really care for running right after her and experiencing it like it was intended. *shrugs*

#131 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@cooolio

I was conflicted because I liked her... I like tess more because shes not a foul mouth whore but Ellie is okay too.

#132 Posted by _Judas_ (748 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@_Judas_

lol so your claim is The Last Of Us's AI is great because theres nothing better and I shouldn't talk about its flaws ? WOW ! ! !

True there are no smarter enemies but there are Better enemies Over All, President Evil 6's J'avo are dumber but better than the Last Of Us infected, and thats just the J'avo.

No, you misunderstood me. What I meant was that there is nothing wrong with the A.I, and that it is om-par with other third-person shooters. Then I stated "Give me an example of genius A.I", because I want to know what you consider "better" or "good". The Last of Us' A.I is great because it is great. I don't understand your next statement... J'avo are dumber, but better? What do you mean by "better"? Better enemies? What I gather from your statement is that the J'avi have poorer A.I than TLOU's infected, but are better. How are they better, but dumber?

The part with the giraffes is not a flaw: Ellie drops the ladder and your are forced to prop it up yourself, yes. There may be some "nooks and crannies", but my "The Last of Us Ltd. Edition Strategy Guide" tells me that there are no resources between the ladder scene and the giraffe scene.

#133 Posted by Marduke1913 (46 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: haha it was a good movie wasnt it

#134 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@_Judas_

Oh really ? So I suppose making the enemies blind to Ellie is an Aesthetic Choice not a flaw with the AI....

Look, over all the game is fine but the AI specifically is not that great... And....

"How are they better, but dumber?"

Theres alot more to an enemy than its AI, if you go back and read properly you'l notice I said: "True there are no smarter enemies but there are Better enemies OVER ALL"

infact that should apply to the whole game, TLOU has good AI but other games are just better Over All. Don't Worry, its not alot of games... TLOU is great, its just not the Cats Pijamas that people say it is.

#135 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@Marduke1913

Indeed.... Looking foward to Watching The Order aswell :)

#136 Posted by _Judas_ (748 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: Naughty Dog stated that they decided to make Ellie invisible to enemies(unless Joel is spotted). This was an intentional design to prevent her from giving away Joel's location. Well, please explain how J'avi are "better" overall than TLOU's infected.

lol, we just have to agree to disagree. I feel the game is one of the best -ever- and you remain skeptical. Skepticism is good. I feel I keep de-bunking all your negativity towards the game, but you are unable to comply... I guess the same can be said about me; I truely love the game. I'm sorry if it seems I've been trying to "force" you to like/love the game: it's just that I feel very strongly about this game, you understand? :) If you don't love it as much as I do: no problem.

The post-apocalyptic genre is very dear to me (wrote my master's thesis about "it"), and I've been reading alot of literature, and watching alot of post-apocalyptic movies. There's something with the state of the world, the desperation, the loneliness, the hostility, the sad stories that really gets me on an emotional level *sob sob* :p to me, this game is the "cats pijamas" ;)

#137 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@_Judas_

"This was an intentional design to prevent her from giving away Joel's location..."

And that doesn't spell bad AI to you ? President Evil 6 did the samething, they realised the AI was causing problems, but modifying the games rules is not a fix.

The AI still sucks its just no longer a problem. I have the "this was intentional" argument many times before, deliberate =/= not bad.

"Well, please explain how J'avi are "better" overall than TLOU's infected."

Thats easy... Simple Variety, yeah sure theres other things J'avo do better but I don't need to list them, Variety goes a long way making baddies that don't suck.

#138 Posted by _Judas_ (748 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: simple variety isn't good enough....you need to explain better.

#139 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@_Judas_

Whats to explain, theres different types of J'Avo that do different things, Some Fly, some shoot red mist, some snatch, some shoot sticky webs. Put 5 of them in a room and you have a far superior dynamic than the Last Of Us and its 3 types of Infected, actually come to think of it even the zombies have more variety than the infected.

#140 Posted by _Judas_ (748 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: there are four kinds of infected in TLOU + there are hunterse/scavengers, and they all require different tactics... we can go on like this forever, you know...

#141 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@_Judas_

There are Runners, Clickers and Bloaters. Theres only 3. And even then The Only difference between Clickers and Runners is Clickers is in stealth Clickers are blind and in combat they instakill.

#142 Edited by _Judas_ (748 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: Runners, Stalkers, Clickers and Bloaters. Upon being spotted, Runners will run at you and attack. These can be dealt with the same way as you deal with hunters/bandits. Stalkers are the ones that hide and wait to ambush you. They stay quiet and therefor won't be spotted during focused listen. Fighting these might encourage using gadgets and trickery as they are difficult to spot and prone to eradic behaviour. Fight these using nail bombs and molotov cocktails. Clickers are blind but very deadly. They are easily "tricked" by throwing a bottle or brick. Fighting Clickers might encourage being sneaky an stealthy as they are pretty dangerous melee fighters, and, if you're being quiet, can sneak past 'em. Bloaters are the big tanks. These are ranged fighters that have lots of protection. A very good technique for fighting these is to combine your gadgets with your firepower; put them on fire by throwing a molotov cocktail on them or using the flamethrower, and finish them of with a powerful weapon, possibly the shotgun.

The "end fight" in the bus depot is pretty darn epic as it pits you against all four types. It's pretty epic to pull of this fight "the right way". I felt pretty awesome after completing this fight. In order to deal with this in a good way, you need to utilize and take advantage of every flaw in the infected.

There are also hunters, surivors, bandits, and fireflies. Though many of these human non-infected enemies appeas the same, my TLOU ltd. edition strategy guide states there is a subtle difference between hunters, bandits and fireflies:

-Hunters are fearless people that may charge at you straight on. They can appear as not being afraid of dying and/or lacking tactical abilities.

-Bandits and survivors are more tactical fighters. These might be more prone to giving orders and working as a team.

-Fireflies are the enemies with the best weaponary. These are soldiers. They have armor and assault rifles. Helmets and first-aid kits means you hav to approach them quickly and don't allow them to patch themselves up.

#143 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@_Judas_

Stalkers ?

sorry mate I don't know what you're talking about. I don't remember being Ambushed by anything unless it was scripted to happen.

#144 Edited by _Judas_ (748 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: yeap, Stalkers. They appear in my TLOU strategy guide. They don't appear that often, it appears. The strategy guide states they appear in especially in Pittburgh and the suburbs.

According to the guide, they "can be immune to punches[...], a stage between runners (stage 1) and Clickers (stage 3). They make these distinct croaking sounds...like an early version on echolocation. Once they are aware of your position, they will "stalk" you either by hiding behind a corner, behind stuff and try to flank and ambush Joel.

SPOILERS!!


I distinctly remember fighting them in that hotel section where Joel falls down the elevator and is seperated from Ellie. Joel has to activate a generator which draws in runners, clickers, stalkers and a bloater.

#145 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13600 posts) -

@_Judas_

Those stalkers behave exactly like Runners, yeah they look and sound different but honestly, thats all there was to it....

I have the same issue with some of the game's weapons. Some of them were added just for kicks, they didn't really have to be there.

#146 Edited by _Judas_ (748 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: *sig* listen... do you know what it means to be hypocritical? Earlier you stated that "simple variety" is a good way of making enemies "not suck".

First of all, comparing the runners with the slalkers and saying they are the same, is like comparing the fast runner zombie (the modern day zombie... think "The Dawn of the Dead: Remake"-zombie) with the old "original" Romero zombie (think "Night of the Living Dead"-zombie) and stating they're the same; they may look the same, but they behave differently and pose a different kind of threat; You can't deal with them the same way you deal with runners... these appear to be smart, and act cunning. They will run and hide from you... behind doorways, behind corners, they will move around you as you walk down halls. They stalk you. You won't see them when they've hidden, because they're in "stealth mode". I would, at the least, call this "advanced variety"

Next arguement is stupid... you know Naughty Dog could've just give the players one gun... we don't need any more. Just need a gun that shoots bullets. Why do you think developers choose to give the players more weaponary? What kind of dynamics does it change to give the player a shotgun, a pistol, and a bow and arrow? Isn't it weird if every god damn bastard still alive in "The Last of us"-universe walks around with the exact same gun?! I know your "Should I use my 9mm or my revolver?"-question from before; do you not honestly see the difference in strategic design to have two very different pistols; one fast-shooting, low-damage dealing, fast-reloading, big magazine-carrying handgun, contra a heavy-swinging, high-damage dealing, slow-to-reload, and holds-a-low-amount-of-rounds revolver?

#147 Posted by thegamingjunkie (256 posts) -

Lol been gone over 5 days and this thread is still on top of the forums.

#148 Posted by mastermetal777 (1678 posts) -

I'll just say this. I don't think The Last of Us is overrated. I think it's a wonderfully crafted game with some of the most intense and morbidly satisfying gameplay I've ever seen. Not only that, but I think the story is very well written with some amazing characters, has some of the most beautiful art direction, and also has a great multiplayer suite. If you thought it was overrated, it's likely you didn't like one or more of these elements, which is fine. Not everyone has to like the same things.

#149 Posted by Vivamp (29 posts) -

no way, both the story and multiplayer are amazing. not many multiplayer games i can play for 6+hour sessions these days without getting bored, but this is one of them for sure.

#150 Edited by Fred_Flatulence (50 posts) -

@thegamingjunkie said:

Lol been gone over 5 days and this thread is still on top of the forums.

Haven't you figured it out?

The game has been out for over a year & people have the inability to move on.