Graphics cards - am I correct with this theory?

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en3sge

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#1 en3sge
Member since 2007 • 321 Posts

Every time a new graphics generation comes along, you tend to get a courtesy 15-25% increase in performance over the last generation.

Doesn't this linearity seem a bit strange? I often wonder whether the manufacturers are deliberately holding back better tech or better performance so they don't 'show their hand' to the competition and to ensure a future release line of their products.

Take for example the Nvidia GTX 680. I believe they throtted back the bus bandwidth on this card compared to the GTX 580. Its almost like the engineers said 'oops, this card is gonna be so far ahead, lets dial it back so the 7 series wont look too weak when that comes along.'

I bet if economics and competition didnt exist, the ultimate graphics card with current technology would be many times more powerful than what we have now.

What does everyone think?

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deactivated-579f651eab962

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#2 deactivated-579f651eab962
Member since 2003 • 5404 Posts
I think you're right
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MonsieurX

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#3 MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39858 Posts
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JigglyWiggly_

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#4 JigglyWiggly_
Member since 2009 • 24625 Posts
This happens in everything.
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en3sge

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#5 en3sge
Member since 2007 • 321 Posts
This happens in everything.JigglyWiggly_
Maybe but its never discussed. It also seems strange that within the same generation ati and nvidia cards are always on level pegging. Surely a good way to win customers from your competition is to totally trump them. Which leads me into a conspiracy theory - do both companies effectively fix the level of their cards? Like a gentlemans agreement?
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deactivated-5c8e4e07d5510

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#6 deactivated-5c8e4e07d5510
Member since 2007 • 17401 Posts
Their priorities shifted with this generation. They focused more on reducing power consumption and heat than adding more performance. If you disregard any of the benefits other than performance, then yeah you might be right.
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bigbeebis

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#7 bigbeebis
Member since 2007 • 705 Posts
I feel exactly the same. I think tis done so people would continue to buy their products as years pass otherwise bankruptcy would be inevitable.
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deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab

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#8 deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab
Member since 2008 • 17476 Posts

I bet if economics and competition didnt exist, the ultimate graphics card with current technology would be many times more powerful than what we have now.

What does everyone think?

en3sge
Competition is what drives increased performance in hardware
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hartsickdiscipl

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#9 hartsickdiscipl
Member since 2003 • 14787 Posts

I agree that it's strange to see such a relatively constant linear increase in performance. I would expect to see more leaps and bounds if the engineers and accountants were really giving it their all. It seems like they go through the same process over and over again.

New chip design ---> die shrink and/or accompanying increase in energy efficiency

Rinse and repeat. This goes on for years.

When I look at that and how even AMD/ATI and Nvidia have been from generation to generation over the last decade, it's boring. It wouldn't surprise me if there were some kind of collusion going on between the top execs from each company. That happens in many industries, as it does in government.

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ShadowDeathX

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#10 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11698 Posts
[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"]This happens in everything.en3sge
Maybe but its never discussed. It also seems strange that within the same generation ati and nvidia cards are always on level pegging. Surely a good way to win customers from your competition is to totally trump them. Which leads me into a conspiracy theory - do both companies effectively fix the level of their cards? Like a gentlemans agreement?

Yeah sure. Nvidia wants AMD alive and AMD wants Nvidia alive. If not, then the Government will be sniffing up and putting anti-monopoly costs on the one that is alive.
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#11 Marfoo
Member since 2004 • 6002 Posts
On the contrary you have AMD which introduced GCN which is a far more ambitious processor than there previous designs, especially on the compute front. Depends what the design goals are for the company. You also have to realize that there are engineering teams working in parallel. There is probably already a team working on the HD 9000 series of cards and they have to stick to their goals regardless of how the HD 8000 series turns out. For Nvidia it is no different, teams work in parallel and the end product isn't always heavily influenced by competitor performance or even last gen's practical performance. Just look at when the HD 2900XT came out and GeForce 8800. ATI had clearly underestimated the amount of transistors Nvidia would put into a GPU and they got beat out. Speculation is the name of the game, not only when it comes to competitor performance, but also your own, so you set a goal and shoot for it.
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en3sge

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#12 en3sge
Member since 2007 • 321 Posts

I agree with the posts here that mention the monopoly politics that would occur if one of the main players (Nvidia or AMD) put the other out of business.

Lets be honest here, unless you are a completely loyal customer of either brand, you will always buy the card that performs best (this used to be overall performance although now I guess we have to factor in performance per Watt, drivers and SLI capability). Therefore, if (say) Nvidia released the GTX 780 and found a 100% improvement on the GTX680 but AMD found only a 15% improvement on their 7970 then its quite likely AMD would be absolutely mauled at market.

So there must be some background gentlemans handshakes to ensure the two companies stay at least in the same ball-park as eachother.

I do agree that competition drives performance but I also fell that competition can also throttle performance gains somewhat when you look at the politics of the situation.

I don't want to bring consoles into the debate too much as this is a PC forum but I always find it interesting that competing consoles seem to follow this pattern too. SNES was roughly in the same ballpark as Genesis/MegaDrive and the same with PS1/N64 (although perhaps this was more a substantial gap) and then with Xbox/PS2 and Xbox 360/PS3. No one console completely blows the other out of the water in terms of technology.

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Yams1980

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#13 Yams1980
Member since 2006 • 2862 Posts

this happens with CPUs also. Intel released almost too powerful a cpu with the i3's, i5 and i7's. I bought my i7 2600k almost 2 years ago now and it still destroys anything amd has... I think if Intel was to do it again they maybe would have released a bit weaker cpu back than and later came out with the stronger ones when the Bulldozer came out.

It wouldnt surprise me if AMD and Nvidia exchange tech specs for their new chips just to keep things balanced... its surprising how similar and almost exactly the same the performance is between the two video card makers... but we pretty much know Nvidia could release a super rigged video card if they wanted, but they'll milk things along and be happy with the competition with AMD.

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en3sge

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#14 en3sge
Member since 2007 • 321 Posts

this happens with CPUs also. Intel released almost too powerful a cpu with the i3's, i5 and i7's. I bought my i7 2600k almost 2 years ago now and it still destroys anything amd has... I think if Intel was to do it again they maybe would have released a bit weaker cpu back than and later came out with the stronger ones when the Bulldozer came out.

It wouldnt surprise me if AMD and Nvidia exchange tech specs for their new chips just to keep things balanced... its surprising how similar and almost exactly the same the performance is between the two video card makers... but we pretty much know Nvidia could release a super rigged video card if they wanted, but they'll milk things along and be happy with the competition with AMD.

Yams1980
Yeah exactly. I guess the two companies decide on some ballpark figures on card throughput and then agree not to exceed this and then its up to them how they achieve this and the power levels the cards need to get to these levels. I think (as someone in this thread alluded to earlier) we have seen the results when this 'agreement' doesn't happen or doesn't come off well. The 8800 series blew the ATI competition out the water at the time. If ATI went bust at that point then Nvidia would inherit the ATI customers in the next generation but would then come under close scrutiny for having an absolute monopoly on the graphics card industry - thus potentially opening the doors for another competitor and you know, as they say, better the devil you know! And yep I can see this happening in CPUs too. Heck, the more I think about it the more I can see it happening everywhere.