Star Citizen Dogfighting Module DELAYED.

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#1 Posted by airshocker (29405 posts) -

SOURCE

Can't say I'm surprised, but definitely a little disappointed. I am, however, extremely excited to see the WIP livestream on Friday.

#2 Posted by Geminon (1095 posts) -

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

#3 Posted by airshocker (29405 posts) -

@Geminon said:

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

That's a pretty shitty thing to say. I mean, it won't happen, but still.

I'm not sure why you have such a rabid hatred of this game.

#5 Posted by MBirdy88 (8057 posts) -


This makes sense I suppose..... 2015 launch date..., 2014 alpha .... I can see why people want it to fail... its taken millions off consumors years before its release.... this will make or break crowdfunding. hte only game I have put money towards... well other than everquest next.. essentially pre-ordering a game 2 years in advance is insane in my eyes, let alone the people throwing hundreds/thousands into it.

as long as the stream on friday is good I dont care, my 6950 chugs in the hanger let alone actualy gameplay so Im not in a rush to play.

#6 Posted by Geminon (1095 posts) -

@Geminon said:

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

That's a pretty shitty thing to say. I mean, it won't happen, but still.

I'm not sure why you have such a rabid hatred of this game.

i dont think it is shitty at all.... infact i think if it does happen, all of those people that game them money deserve it. it probably wont happen.... but hey, i can dream.

i hate crowdfunding. i think it is a bad idea, and i think it is exploitative. it is a way for developers to skirt having to give returns to investors/publishers, while still treating their investors like investors. they can essentially use crowdfunding money to make a product, shielding them from any financial responsibility of their own, and then keep all the profits for themselves... having taken none of the risk.

essentially every single person that gives them money is giving them a loan, to be repayed with a product at a later date. they have zero responsibility to those that give them money, because there is no contract between them and their investors like there would be in a normal investment. this has been proven on kickstarter many times when kickstarters fail and backers are out their money an have no recourse. if someone became an investor in a company normally, and that company went bankrupt, the liquidation of that companies assets would provide a return to those investors of some sort. it may not cover their entire investment.... but they would get something.

not the case with crowdfunding. it is a cancer, and it needs to go away. i dont care if it hurts companies too small to get funding through normal means. survival of the fittest. strong companies will find a way, weak companies will rely on crowdfunding.

get bent if you dont agree with me, i couldnt care less. most of the time kickstarter is just used IN LIEU OF normal funding means through a publisher.... its not that they couldnt do it through normal means.... its that they chose not to. in essence, crowdfunding isnt even being used in the way that it was initially created for, which was to assist small businesses in realizing their ideas. When multimillion dollar companies start using crowdfunding, you know there is a problem.

it will take a crowdfunding campaign the size of star citizen failing to make it go away.... and for that, i hope that it does fail.

#7 Posted by MBirdy88 (8057 posts) -

@Geminon said:

@airshocker said:

@Geminon said:

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

That's a pretty shitty thing to say. I mean, it won't happen, but still.

I'm not sure why you have such a rabid hatred of this game.

i dont think it is shitty at all.... infact i think if it does happen, all of those people that game them money deserve it. it probably wont happen.... but hey, i can dream.

i hate crowdfunding. i think it is a bad idea, and i think it is exploitative. it is a way for developers to skirt having to give returns to investors/publishers, while still treating their investors like investors. they can essentially use crowdfunding money to make a product, shielding them from any financial responsibility of their own, and then keep all the profits for themselves... having taken none of the risk.

essentially every single person that gives them money is giving them a loan, to be repayed with a product at a later date. they have zero responsibility to those that give them money, because there is no contract between them and their investors like there would be in a normal investment. this has been proven on kickstarter many times when kickstarters fail and backers are out their money an have no recourse. if someone became an investor in a company normally, and that company went bankrupt, the liquidation of that companies assets would provide a return to those investors of some sort. it may not cover their entire investment.... but they would get something.

not the case with crowdfunding. it is a cancer, and it needs to go away. i dont care if it hurts companies too small to get funding through normal means. survival of the fittest. strong companies will find a way, weak companies will rely on crowdfunding.

get bent if you dont agree with me, i couldnt care less. most of the time kickstarter is just used IN LIEU OF normal funding means through a publisher.... its not that they couldnt do it through normal means.... its that they chose not to. in essence, crowdfunding isnt even being used in the way that it was initially created for, which was to assist small businesses in realizing their ideas. When multimillion dollar companies start using crowdfunding, you know there is a problem.

it will take a crowdfunding campaign the size of star citizen failing to make it go away.... and for that, i hope that it does fail.

Your wasting your breath.... this logical point is hated on this forum and other fanboy enclaves. I've tried. and so have many others. nobody I know has invested in star citizen except me... for the reasons you mention above, logical reasons that go beyond marketing of flashy images and "PROVE PC ISNT DEAD BY BUYING OUR GAME.... thats not even 10% complete... just some flashy Cryengine 3 ship images".

Have you looked on the star citizen forum? there is now a thread dedicated to "Because of this delay I am increasing my pledge, these developers are awesome for being honest" .... wtf is happening to people? the CEO states that they dont feel the product is ready enough.... and that is praised?

What the CEO has wrote can be said by any damn person on the planet as justification for a delay... its still a huge delay (months.) and it looks like the increase in the games popularity means "feature bloat" is pushing things back.

but like I said, wasting your breath.... its becoming like a cult.

#10 Posted by airshocker (29405 posts) -
@MBirdy88 said:

@Geminon said:

@airshocker said:

@Geminon said:

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

That's a pretty shitty thing to say. I mean, it won't happen, but still.

I'm not sure why you have such a rabid hatred of this game.

i dont think it is shitty at all.... infact i think if it does happen, all of those people that game them money deserve it. it probably wont happen.... but hey, i can dream.

i hate crowdfunding. i think it is a bad idea, and i think it is exploitative. it is a way for developers to skirt having to give returns to investors/publishers, while still treating their investors like investors. they can essentially use crowdfunding money to make a product, shielding them from any financial responsibility of their own, and then keep all the profits for themselves... having taken none of the risk.

essentially every single person that gives them money is giving them a loan, to be repayed with a product at a later date. they have zero responsibility to those that give them money, because there is no contract between them and their investors like there would be in a normal investment. this has been proven on kickstarter many times when kickstarters fail and backers are out their money an have no recourse. if someone became an investor in a company normally, and that company went bankrupt, the liquidation of that companies assets would provide a return to those investors of some sort. it may not cover their entire investment.... but they would get something.

not the case with crowdfunding. it is a cancer, and it needs to go away. i dont care if it hurts companies too small to get funding through normal means. survival of the fittest. strong companies will find a way, weak companies will rely on crowdfunding.

get bent if you dont agree with me, i couldnt care less. most of the time kickstarter is just used IN LIEU OF normal funding means through a publisher.... its not that they couldnt do it through normal means.... its that they chose not to. in essence, crowdfunding isnt even being used in the way that it was initially created for, which was to assist small businesses in realizing their ideas. When multimillion dollar companies start using crowdfunding, you know there is a problem.

it will take a crowdfunding campaign the size of star citizen failing to make it go away.... and for that, i hope that it does fail.

Your wasting your breath.... this logical point is hated on this forum and other fanboy enclaves. I've tried. and so have many others. nobody I know has invested in star citizen except me... for the reasons you mention above, logical reasons that go beyond marketing of flashy images and "PROVE PC ISNT DEAD BY BUYING OUR GAME.... thats not even 10% complete... just some flashy Cryengine 3 ship images".

Have you looked on the star citizen forum? there is now a thread dedicated to "Because of this delay I am increasing my pledge, these developers are awesome for being honest" .... wtf is happening to people? the CEO states that they dont feel the product is ready enough.... and that is praised?

What the CEO has wrote can be said by any damn person on the planet as justification for a delay... its still a huge delay (months.) and it looks like the increase in the games popularity means "feature bloat" is pushing things back.

but like I said, wasting your breath.... its becoming like a cult.

Transparency should be praised, shouldn't it?

A developer that has the balls to go to his community and say, "Hey, I honestly don't think what we could give you in December would be good enough. I'm going to delay this for a couple of months because I want to give you more than just some alpha that barely works." That is the epitome of someone who is upstanding and deserves the funding that he has received.

Now that's something to be despised? What the fuck are you smoking, chuckles?

#11 Posted by Geminon (1095 posts) -

@Geminon said:

@airshocker said:

@Geminon said:

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

That's a pretty shitty thing to say. I mean, it won't happen, but still.

I'm not sure why you have such a rabid hatred of this game.

i dont think it is shitty at all.... infact i think if it does happen, all of those people that game them money deserve it. it probably wont happen.... but hey, i can dream.

i hate crowdfunding. i think it is a bad idea, and i think it is exploitative. it is a way for developers to skirt having to give returns to investors/publishers, while still trget more eating their investors like investors. they can essentially use crowdfunding money to make a product, shielding them from any financial responsibility of their own, and then keep all the profits for themselves... having taken none of the risk.

essentially every single person that gives them money is giving them a loan, to be repayed with a product at a later date. they have zero responsibility to those that give them money, because there is no contract between them and their investors like there would be in a normal investment. this has been proven on kickstarter many times when kickstarters fail and backers are out their money an have no recourse. if someone became an investor in a company normally, and that company went bankrupt, the liquidation of that companies assets would provide a return to those investors of some sort. it may not cover their entire investment.... but they would get something.

not the case with crowdfunding. it is a cancer, and it needs to go away. i dont care if it hurts companies too small to get funding through normal means. survival of the fittest. strong companies will find a way, weak companies will rely on crowdfunding.

get bent if you dont agree with me, i couldnt care less. most of the time kickstarter is just used IN LIEU OF normal funding means through a publisher.... its not that they couldnt do it through normal means.... its that they chose not to. in essence, crowdfunding isnt even being used in the way that it was initially created for, which was to assist small businesses in realizing their ideas. When multimillion dollar companies start using crowdfunding, you know there is a problem.

it will take a crowdfunding campaign the size of star citizen failing to make it go away.... and for that, i hope that it does fail.

How you feel about crowdfunding has nothing to do with you being a shitty human being. Wanting other people to lose their money is a fucking terrible thing to wish for.

No wonder people in this section don't like you.

how i feel about crowdfunding has everything to do with the conversation at hand, and that is all that is being discussed.

people only learn their lesson when they are hurt financially anymore. it will take the kind of money backing star citizen being lost to change anything regarding rules related to crowd funding.

do you know the old saying "a fool and his money will soon be parted"? well.... i think that statement applies quite well to the idea of crowdfunding.

people investing in crowdfunding campaigns are fools. they are handing over their hard earned money, AS AN INVESTMENT, with no guarantee or legally binding contract stating that they will receive any sort of return. they are not only allowing, but SUPPORTING companies to profit off of their investments while assuming no risk. why should i feel sorry for those that are ok with this?

I shouldnt. i should be rooting for their demise, because their demise may infact prevent such a thing from happening to others in the future.

if you choose to be a judgmental hypocrite, then far be it for me to stand in the way of you making an ass of yourself. please continue.

#12 Posted by MBirdy88 (8057 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

@Geminon said:

@airshocker said:

@Geminon said:

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

That's a pretty shitty thing to say. I mean, it won't happen, but still.

I'm not sure why you have such a rabid hatred of this game.

i dont think it is shitty at all.... infact i think if it does happen, all of those people that game them money deserve it. it probably wont happen.... but hey, i can dream.

i hate crowdfunding. i think it is a bad idea, and i think it is exploitative. it is a way for developers to skirt having to give returns to investors/publishers, while still treating their investors like investors. they can essentially use crowdfunding money to make a product, shielding them from any financial responsibility of their own, and then keep all the profits for themselves... having taken none of the risk.

essentially every single person that gives them money is giving them a loan, to be repayed with a product at a later date. they have zero responsibility to those that give them money, because there is no contract between them and their investors like there would be in a normal investment. this has been proven on kickstarter many times when kickstarters fail and backers are out their money an have no recourse. if someone became an investor in a company normally, and that company went bankrupt, the liquidation of that companies assets would provide a return to those investors of some sort. it may not cover their entire investment.... but they would get something.

not the case with crowdfunding. it is a cancer, and it needs to go away. i dont care if it hurts companies too small to get funding through normal means. survival of the fittest. strong companies will find a way, weak companies will rely on crowdfunding.

get bent if you dont agree with me, i couldnt care less. most of the time kickstarter is just used IN LIEU OF normal funding means through a publisher.... its not that they couldnt do it through normal means.... its that they chose not to. in essence, crowdfunding isnt even being used in the way that it was initially created for, which was to assist small businesses in realizing their ideas. When multimillion dollar companies start using crowdfunding, you know there is a problem.

it will take a crowdfunding campaign the size of star citizen failing to make it go away.... and for that, i hope that it does fail.

Your wasting your breath.... this logical point is hated on this forum and other fanboy enclaves. I've tried. and so have many others. nobody I know has invested in star citizen except me... for the reasons you mention above, logical reasons that go beyond marketing of flashy images and "PROVE PC ISNT DEAD BY BUYING OUR GAME.... thats not even 10% complete... just some flashy Cryengine 3 ship images".

Have you looked on the star citizen forum? there is now a thread dedicated to "Because of this delay I am increasing my pledge, these developers are awesome for being honest" .... wtf is happening to people? the CEO states that they dont feel the product is ready enough.... and that is praised?

What the CEO has wrote can be said by any damn person on the planet as justification for a delay... its still a huge delay (months.) and it looks like the increase in the games popularity means "feature bloat" is pushing things back.

but like I said, wasting your breath.... its becoming like a cult.

Transparency should be praised, shouldn't it?

A developer that has the balls to go to his community and say, "Hey, I honestly don't think what we could give you in December would be good enough. I'm going to delay this for a couple of months because I want to give you more than just some alpha that barely works." That is the epitome of someone who is upstanding and deserves the funding that he has received.

Now that's something to be despised? What the fuck are you smoking, chuckles?

"Transparency" is a "good many months" delay announced less than 2 weeks before the original deadline? and all in the name of "we know what we have so far will spur the haters foward" .... this game is already sheduled for 2015 .... is that even realistic at this point?

Any company can be transparent, any company can admit delays.... just because you lot shoved so much money at them you are looking for justifications.

Fact of the matter is the dogfight module is not up to scratch on the deadline. its not praise worthy to admit this... its "oh ok..." at most. hell, if we were PROPER investors it would be far from ok. but we are not, we are fanboys that threw money at a concept... and will sing praises even if it comes out and sucks... dont deny it.

I know you are overly passionaite about it, "chuckles" ... as I know you have spent alot and we have argued before.

Keep feeding yourself excuses for your purchases, but understand that MANY people find this business practice out of favour with consumors... and with good reason. even with decent intentions... its still throwing money at an unproven project.

#13 Edited by Geminon (1095 posts) -

@airshocker said:
@MBirdy88 said:

@Geminon said:

@airshocker said:

@Geminon said:

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

That's a pretty shitty thing to say. I mean, it won't happen, but still.

I'm not sure why you have such a rabid hatred of this game.

i dont think it is shitty at all.... infact i think if it does happen, all of those people that game them money deserve it. it probably wont happen.... but hey, i can dream.

i hate crowdfunding. i think it is a bad idea, and i think it is exploitative. it is a way for developers to skirt having to give returns to investors/publishers, while still treating their investors like investors. they can essentially use crowdfunding money to make a product, shielding them from any financial responsibility of their own, and then keep all the profits for themselves... having taken none of the risk.

essentially every single person that gives them money is giving them a loan, to be repayed with a product at a later date. they have zero responsibility to those that give them money, because there is no contract between them and their investors like there would be in a normal investment. this has been proven on kickstarter many times when kickstarters fail and backers are out their money an have no recourse. if someone became an investor in a company normally, and that company went bankrupt, the liquidation of that companies assets would provide a return to those investors of some sort. it may not cover their entire investment.... but they would get something.

not the case with crowdfunding. it is a cancer, and it needs to go away. i dont care if it hurts companies too small to get funding through normal means. survival of the fittest. strong companies will find a way, weak companies will rely on crowdfunding.

get bent if you dont agree with me, i couldnt care less. most of the time kickstarter is just used IN LIEU OF normal funding means through a publisher.... its not that they couldnt do it through normal means.... its that they chose not to. in essence, crowdfunding isnt even being used in the way that it was initially created for, which was to assist small businesses in realizing their ideas. When multimillion dollar companies start using crowdfunding, you know there is a problem.

it will take a crowdfunding campaign the size of star citizen failing to make it go away.... and for that, i hope that it does fail.

Your wasting your breath.... this logical point is hated on this forum and other fanboy enclaves. I've tried. and so have many others. nobody I know has invested in star citizen except me... for the reasons you mention above, logical reasons that go beyond marketing of flashy images and "PROVE PC ISNT DEAD BY BUYING OUR GAME.... thats not even 10% complete... just some flashy Cryengine 3 ship images".

Have you looked on the star citizen forum? there is now a thread dedicated to "Because of this delay I am increasing my pledge, these developers are awesome for being honest" .... wtf is happening to people? the CEO states that they dont feel the product is ready enough.... and that is praised?

What the CEO has wrote can be said by any damn person on the planet as justification for a delay... its still a huge delay (months.) and it looks like the increase in the games popularity means "feature bloat" is pushing things back.

but like I said, wasting your breath.... its becoming like a cult.

Transparency should be praised, shouldn't it?

A developer that has the balls to go to his community and say, "Hey, I honestly don't think what we could give you in December would be good enough. I'm going to delay this for a couple of months because I want to give you more than just some alpha that barely works." That is the epitome of someone who is upstanding and deserves the funding that he has received.

Now that's something to be despised? What the fuck are you smoking, chuckles?

or it is the sign of a developer that is starting to realize that they cannot deliver on the hollow promises that they have made to gather the millions of dollars that they have raised.

how do you think people are going to feel if they realize it was all just a whisper and a dream? you think they are going to be supportive then of all this "honesty"?

your first mistake was thinking that Roberts actually gives a shit about you, or any of the backers. Roberts cares about money. he is in the business of making money... or he wouldnt be in business at all. Cynical much? fuck yeah i am. If you havent turned on the TV or read anything online lately.... let me fill you in on something, consumer rights are dead and gone. LONG gone. companies see you are a potential revenue source and that is it. their only interest is in what they can say or do to get you to spend money on them.

so what the fuck ARE YOU smoking, chuckles?

#14 Posted by MBirdy88 (8057 posts) -

While I'm here should I point out the massive flop that was Ouya? the second biggest crowed funded project that people hyped up to high heaven.... I wonder how the people that spent loads on it feel now.... probably would say "happy" just to save face.

I spent the ammount it would be to pre-order.... no chance of refund or anything (which in itself is bad) giving it a chance because well I want it to succeed and the concept is good. but I'm not delusional, it has every chance of falling on its face, and this delay is just that... a delay because they failed to meet their timeframe.... thye failed to produce what we would find acceptable in time. end of story.

after friday im going to ignore this game for the entire duration of 2014 as if i had no investment. and just recieved a "game" in 2015 at some time. everything beforehand is irrelevant.

I feel dirty being involved at this point, but a moment of weakness is a moment of weakness...

#15 Edited by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@Geminon said:

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

Typical of Gemitroll. I have absolutely come to the conclusion that is all this guy is, time to just start ignoring him altogether.

#16 Posted by Geminon (1095 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

@Geminon said:

i am secretly hoping for this game to be a huge scam and all those people that are spending thousands of dollars on a non-existent product to be out their money. i will enjoy the ensuing shit storm mightily.

Typical of Gemitroll. I have absolutely come to the conclusion that is all this guy is, time to just start ignoring him altogether.

am.... am i supposed to care what you think?

#17 Edited by KHAndAnime (13636 posts) -

Notice the only people complaining about crowd-funding are the people that aren't actually losing anything?

It's a sad day when people can't see the genius, ease, and reality behind the concept: when the developers, investors, and fans are the same page, their goals are the same, therefore everyone is happy. And that's why it's a victory for everyone. If you're not a fan of the game - don't buy it. That's why it's a win-win situation - the only people complaining are the idiots who don't care about the game in the first place.

What idiot would want to stick to the norm? Publishers put out broken, rehashed games on the regular - and fix them long after the game is released. For some reason, closed-minded gamers believe the best practice for making a game is by having publishers, developers, and investors satisfy their unique goals so that all the costumers get at the end of the day is a rushed and broken project.

Why? I don't know. I guess it doesn't satisfy their personal need for instant gratification. Perhaps people prefer broken games fueled by money and strict deadlines, as opposed to well constructed games fueled by passion. Programming and making a game isn't something easily bound to time-restraints - and that's why crowdfunding is a superior funding concept. If they need to delay the game, it can be delayed - everyone is understanding, because unlike publishers, the costumer's wealth doesn't rely on this project turning out successfully.

Is crowdfunding perfect? Hell no. Far from it. But foundation of the concept is simply much stronger than the traditional way games are funded. The relationship between fans and developers is a much stronger than the relationship between publisher and developer. Publishers are nothing more than a middle-man, and like all middle-men, they are typically a detractor for the whole of the project - because they want financial gain at the expense of everything else. They couldn't care less about a developer, or the customers. They will sell you the lowest quality product you're willing to buy - and they're always going to try to lower your standards. It makes absolutely no difference to them, does it?

#18 Edited by Elann2008 (32953 posts) -

Notice the only people complaining about crowd-funding are the people that aren't actually losing anything?

It's a sad day when people can't see the genius, ease, and reality behind the concept: when the developers, investors, and fans are the same page, their goals are the same, therefore everyone is happy. And that's why it's a victory for everyone. If you're not a fan of the game - don't buy it. That's why it's a win-win situation - the only people complaining are the idiots who don't care about the game in the first place.

What idiot would want to stick to the norm? Publishers put out broken, rehashed games on the regular - and fix them long after the game is released. For some reason, closed-minded gamers believe the best practice for making a game is by having publishers, developers, and investors satisfy their unique goals so that all the costumers get at the end of the day is a rushed and broken project.

Why? I don't know. I guess it doesn't satisfy their personal need for instant gratification. Perhaps people prefer broken games fueled by money and strict deadlines, as opposed to well constructed games fueled by passion. Programming and making a game isn't something easily bound to time-restraints - and that's why crowdfunding is a superior funding concept. If they need to delay the game, it can be delayed - everyone is understanding, because unlike publishers, the costumer's wealth doesn't rely on this project turning out successfully.

Well said. They'd rather have QTE-infested, broken, games from big-name publishers. I just don't get the thinking behind it. I guess for those people ignorance is bliss and it only spells doom for their Call of Duty-syndrome. They deserve it. Let the Kickstarter and crowdfunding soar. So many good-great games have come from it so why should I care if people think it's some sort of charity/sympathetic plea from developers. In the end of the day, these developers just want to make a great game that isn't creatively controlled by big-wigs who want gameplay with cheap, unsatisfying instant gratification. People forget that options and choices are good, but they have become so used to conformity; one path way to hell is their flavor.

#19 Posted by KHAndAnime (13636 posts) -

@KHAndAnime said:

Notice the only people complaining about crowd-funding are the people that aren't actually losing anything?

It's a sad day when people can't see the genius, ease, and reality behind the concept: when the developers, investors, and fans are the same page, their goals are the same, therefore everyone is happy. And that's why it's a victory for everyone. If you're not a fan of the game - don't buy it. That's why it's a win-win situation - the only people complaining are the idiots who don't care about the game in the first place.

What idiot would want to stick to the norm? Publishers put out broken, rehashed games on the regular - and fix them long after the game is released. For some reason, closed-minded gamers believe the best practice for making a game is by having publishers, developers, and investors satisfy their unique goals so that all the costumers get at the end of the day is a rushed and broken project.

Why? I don't know. I guess it doesn't satisfy their personal need for instant gratification. Perhaps people prefer broken games fueled by money and strict deadlines, as opposed to well constructed games fueled by passion. Programming and making a game isn't something easily bound to time-restraints - and that's why crowdfunding is a superior funding concept. If they need to delay the game, it can be delayed - everyone is understanding, because unlike publishers, the costumer's wealth doesn't rely on this project turning out successfully.

Well said. They'd rather have QTE-infested, broken, games from big-name publishers. I just don't get the thinking behind it. I guess for those people ignorance is bliss and it only spells doom for their Call of Duty-syndrome. They deserve it. Let the Kickstarter and crowdfunding soar. So many good-great games have come from it so why should I care if people think it's some sort of charity/sympathetic plea from developers. In the end of the day, these developers just want to make a great game that isn't creatively controlled by big-wigs who want gameplay with cheap, unsatisfying instant gratification. People forget that options and choices are good, but they have become so used to conformity; one path way to hell is their flavor.

Indeed. You touched on a main point that I forgot - despite it being the most important point. What people aren't grasping is that this game wouldn't be made, period, if not for crowdfunding. Crowdfunding isn't just an option for projects like this, it's a NECESSITY! Most (very close to all) publishers won't touch games that are unique, innovative, or different. Because they view these games as a risk. They would go back and see "Hmm...has a space simulator game ever made tons of cash? No? Well fuck that, you're on your own". Or they ask "...can you make it in 2D, for $30,000, in two months?". PC gaming is so popular that even genres what publishers would call "extremely niche", have millions of fans. Hell - it might entirely up the success of crowd-funded projects to cause more unique games to be published by bigger publishers in the future.

#20 Posted by Maroxad (8209 posts) -

Crowdfunding is a good thing. Many of these games that got crowdfunding would never have been backed by a publisher. Oh and the corporation and people behind it do take risks. That being the fact that their very name is at stake. One bad crowdfunded project and there is no whipping boy to take the blame.

As for the delay, a shame, but I have plenty of games to play in the meanwhile.

#23 Posted by airshocker (29405 posts) -
@MBirdy88 said:

@airshocker said:
@MBirdy88 said:

@Geminon said:

i dont think it is shitty at all.... infact i think if it does happen, all of those people that game them money deserve it. it probably wont happen.... but hey, i can dream.

i hate crowdfunding. i think it is a bad idea, and i think it is exploitative. it is a way for developers to skirt having to give returns to investors/publishers, while still treating their investors like investors. they can essentially use crowdfunding money to make a product, shielding them from any financial responsibility of their own, and then keep all the profits for themselves... having taken none of the risk.

essentially every single person that gives them money is giving them a loan, to be repayed with a product at a later date. they have zero responsibility to those that give them money, because there is no contract between them and their investors like there would be in a normal investment. this has been proven on kickstarter many times when kickstarters fail and backers are out their money an have no recourse. if someone became an investor in a company normally, and that company went bankrupt, the liquidation of that companies assets would provide a return to those investors of some sort. it may not cover their entire investment.... but they would get something.

not the case with crowdfunding. it is a cancer, and it needs to go away. i dont care if it hurts companies too small to get funding through normal means. survival of the fittest. strong companies will find a way, weak companies will rely on crowdfunding.

get bent if you dont agree with me, i couldnt care less. most of the time kickstarter is just used IN LIEU OF normal funding means through a publisher.... its not that they couldnt do it through normal means.... its that they chose not to. in essence, crowdfunding isnt even being used in the way that it was initially created for, which was to assist small businesses in realizing their ideas. When multimillion dollar companies start using crowdfunding, you know there is a problem.

it will take a crowdfunding campaign the size of star citizen failing to make it go away.... and for that, i hope that it does fail.

Your wasting your breath.... this logical point is hated on this forum and other fanboy enclaves. I've tried. and so have many others. nobody I know has invested in star citizen except me... for the reasons you mention above, logical reasons that go beyond marketing of flashy images and "PROVE PC ISNT DEAD BY BUYING OUR GAME.... thats not even 10% complete... just some flashy Cryengine 3 ship images".

Have you looked on the star citizen forum? there is now a thread dedicated to "Because of this delay I am increasing my pledge, these developers are awesome for being honest" .... wtf is happening to people? the CEO states that they dont feel the product is ready enough.... and that is praised?

What the CEO has wrote can be said by any damn person on the planet as justification for a delay... its still a huge delay (months.) and it looks like the increase in the games popularity means "feature bloat" is pushing things back.

but like I said, wasting your breath.... its becoming like a cult.

Transparency should be praised, shouldn't it?

A developer that has the balls to go to his community and say, "Hey, I honestly don't think what we could give you in December would be good enough. I'm going to delay this for a couple of months because I want to give you more than just some alpha that barely works." That is the epitome of someone who is upstanding and deserves the funding that he has received.

Now that's something to be despised? What the fuck are you smoking, chuckles?

"Transparency" is a "good many months" delay announced less than 2 weeks before the original deadline? and all in the name of "we know what we have so far will spur the haters foward" .... this game is already sheduled for 2015 .... is that even realistic at this point?

Any company can be transparent, any company can admit delays.... just because you lot shoved so much money at them you are looking for justifications.

Fact of the matter is the dogfight module is not up to scratch on the deadline. its not praise worthy to admit this... its "oh ok..." at most. hell, if we were PROPER investors it would be far from ok. but we are not, we are fanboys that threw money at a concept... and will sing praises even if it comes out and sucks... dont deny it.

I know you are overly passionaite about it, "chuckles" ... as I know you have spent alot and we have argued before.

Keep feeding yourself excuses for your purchases, but understand that MANY people find this business practice out of favour with consumors... and with good reason. even with decent intentions... its still throwing money at an unproven project.


Now I know you're on something because what you're typing makes absolutely no sense. What isn't realistic about a 2015 launch? That's essentially two years. With the amount of money they've received I don't think it's unrealistic that we'll see the game in a couple of years.

But they aren't. How many triple-A publishers have been this transparent with their community? I can't think of any. So, again, why is that something to be hated on? Looking for justification? I already had justification to spend that money. WTF are you talking about?

They said as much about the module. It's praise-worthy to admit when you aren't going to be able to accomplish something. Considering most big developers would have simply flew right on by without uttering so much as a peep, Roberts wrote a letter and explained why it was going to be delayed. Why you think that's somehow dishonorable is beyond me. I appreciate honesty.

Just because I'm passionate about something doesn't mean I'm going to let those emotions control me. So far you haven't said a thing that would make me question CIG. What does me having spent a lot have to do with anything?

I really don't care if you like crowd-funding or not. If you're in the same boat as Geminon and you want us to lose our money, you're a piece of shit and you don't belong in this community.

#25 Posted by MBirdy88 (8057 posts) -

@KHAndAnime said:

Notice the only people complaining about crowd-funding are the people that aren't actually losing anything?

It's a sad day when people can't see the genius, ease, and reality behind the concept: when the developers, investors, and fans are the same page, their goals are the same, therefore everyone is happy. And that's why it's a victory for everyone. If you're not a fan of the game - don't buy it. That's why it's a win-win situation - the only people complaining are the idiots who don't care about the game in the first place.

What idiot would want to stick to the norm? Publishers put out broken, rehashed games on the regular - and fix them long after the game is released. For some reason, closed-minded gamers believe the best practice for making a game is by having publishers, developers, and investors satisfy their unique goals so that all the costumers get at the end of the day is a rushed and broken project.

Why? I don't know. I guess it doesn't satisfy their personal need for instant gratification. Perhaps people prefer broken games fueled by money and strict deadlines, as opposed to well constructed games fueled by passion. Programming and making a game isn't something easily bound to time-restraints - and that's why crowdfunding is a superior funding concept. If they need to delay the game, it can be delayed - everyone is understanding, because unlike publishers, the costumer's wealth doesn't rely on this project turning out successfully.

Well said. They'd rather have QTE-infested, broken, games from big-name publishers. I just don't get the thinking behind it. I guess for those people ignorance is bliss and it only spells doom for their Call of Duty-syndrome. They deserve it. Let the Kickstarter and crowdfunding soar. So many good-great games have come from it so why should I care if people think it's some sort of charity/sympathetic plea from developers. In the end of the day, these developers just want to make a great game that isn't creatively controlled by big-wigs who want gameplay with cheap, unsatisfying instant gratification. People forget that options and choices are good, but they have become so used to conformity; one path way to hell is their flavor.

How is it well said, when he his very first line is innacurate if he actually read anything beyond what he wanted to see?

I own early access to Starbound.

I am a Star Citizen backer.

Most people complaining havn't invested correct. but I have, and I still find it ridiculous. especially with delays. and excuses anyone can make. "oh we want to make it better." yea? well clearly your behind.

the irony is that these big budget crowdfund games will suffer from the same problems published devs are having, THIS DELAY IS A PRIME EXAMPLE "oh erm, project too big, project management fail, dont worry though, we love your money. keep it real" if this wasnt funded by you hypcrits and it was a publisher game you would be complaining that "ugh delayed again" or some other stupid comment.

Thing is your backing a theory that is not yet proven, thye have not yet proved they will make a better game than a publisher backed game... you just WANT it.

you are the ones who need to prove it works, not the people who dont want to part with money in the hundreds to back something clearly trying to pull at the heart strings of pc gamers.

big-aaa companies like this ahving crowdfunding is... borderline ridiculous.

but yea... keep justifying it... as if its logical... its not, its emotional attachment.

#26 Posted by MBirdy88 (8057 posts) -


Lets also not ignore the fact that you and I have payed for power...... in a game like this. thats right, your ship packages with your unlimited insurance is buying power for a game that isn't even made, its as scummy as the worst free2play games.

those people with decked out hornets with no loss when losing them over and over again just because they spent alot of money before the game was even made.

gets people addicted to buying more ships, more items, decking out their virtual do-nothing hangers which takes away from the "unlocking of" in the actual game...

so many bad practices that once apon a time PC gamers would of boycotted to hell and back.

but but that hype and involvement... WHAT INVOLVEMENT? it seems the only involvement is forum whining like any other.

#27 Posted by blangenakker (2297 posts) -

Apparently Angry Joe thinks he is to blame for the delay

#28 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

Lets also not ignore the fact that you and I have payed for power...... in a game like this. thats right, your ship packages with your unlimited insurance is buying power for a game that isn't even made, its as scummy as the worst free2play games.

those people with decked out hornets with no loss when losing them over and over again just because they spent alot of money before the game was even made.

gets people addicted to buying more ships, more items, decking out their virtual do-nothing hangers which takes away from the "unlocking of" in the actual game...

so many bad practices that once apon a time PC gamers would of boycotted to hell and back.

but but that hype and involvement... WHAT INVOLVEMENT? it seems the only involvement is forum whining like any other.

I have always been concerned about people being able to buy the best ships before the game is even made, that has to affect pvp. I recall the argument being we will all be able to obtain the same ships in game, but how when you are already so far behind the power curve? I bought into this game early with a very modest package, I did not expect people to be buying out my gaming experience with thousands of dollars. I really hope this is not going to ruin it for those like me. I get a bad feeling they may have bitten off more than they can chew with this project. Hope I'm wrong because it certainly can be great.

Flashbacks of Battlecruiser 3000 coming back lol.

#29 Posted by airshocker (29405 posts) -

Once again, Mbirdy makes himself look like a fucking moron. Go back on your meds, dude. You seriously need them.