No longer wild about Wildstar

  • 65 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

Well I finally got into beta, and I guess it was for the better so I don't waste money on yet another waste of time MMO.

Personally it feels like SWTOR with action oriented combat. All of the classes feel the same to me, only difference is between the melee and ranged ones. Again the key word here is feel. Sometimes a game just "feels" good to you, other times it does not. This game does not have a good "feel" to it for me. Again, I feel like I am playing SWTOR but without the great class stories. Just another themepark fetch and kill MMO with easy mode "x marks the spot" questing. I was not expecting revolutionary, but I was not expecting such a been there done that feel.

Yes it is beta, but this is core stuff that I doubt will change much for release.

To be fair I have not gotten to a high level in the slightest, but I don't really want to.... therein lies the problem.

#2 Posted by PredatorRules (8199 posts) -

Another copy of WoW... gosh with these stupid devs.... innovation wasn't on their vocabulary...

#3 Posted by _SKatEDiRt_ (2589 posts) -

@PredatorRules said:

Another copy of WoW... gosh with these stupid devs.... innovation wasn't on their vocabulary...

this

#4 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

Yea it is amazing these games are still following this same old WoW formula thinking they can emulate WoW's success along with it. WoW was such a success because it revolutionized the genre, in a bad way as far as I am concerned but obviously the masses liked it. The next WoW cannot be a WoW clone, not sure why they can't get this.

Again, I was not expecting this game to revolutionize the genre, but I thought with the paths and stuff it would at least be somewhat innovative. As it stands now they are just quests unique to your path. Still full of fetch and kill quests.

#5 Posted by MBirdy88 (8336 posts) -

NEver understood the hype for this one..... looked really bland.

#6 Posted by Elann2008 (32991 posts) -

I never understood the hype for it either, and then the game started to shape up as far as it was "looking" better. Then I realized it's just another themepark MMO.

#7 Edited by Falconoffury (1717 posts) -

There is a pretty decent amount of variety in MMORPGs if you are willing to dig around, and try games you may never have heard about. There are some gems out there, if you seek them out.

Among the megacorporation MMO developers, there isn't much innovation. A ray of hope does exist with Sony's Everquest Next, but that is still far away. Elder Scrolls Online gives me no hope.

#8 Edited by Croag821 (2323 posts) -

No offense but when your not mature enough to respect the NDA you signed and you don't even level "in the slightest" before passing judgement on a game in CLOSED BETA your opinion doesn't hold much salt in my book.

#10 Edited by Elann2008 (32991 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

@Croag821 said:

No offense but when your not mature enough to respect the NDA you signed and you don't even level "in the slightest" before passing judgement on a game in CLOSED BETA your opinion doesn't hold much salt in my book.

No offense but saying no offense before insulting someone does not make it any less of an insult. With all due respect.....blow me. See what I did there? Self-righteous tool. I did nothing different than game sites who got to try the game have done....I gave an impression. Get over it. And if you need to suffer the first 20 levels before an MMO grabs your attention something is wrong.

But go ahead and ignore me, I personally could give a shit whether you listen to me or not. Who the hell are you? rofl.

Agreed.

#11 Posted by ChiefvsGordon (1085 posts) -

i was actually looking forward to it, then it they announced subscription based. give me a good free mmo dang it

#12 Edited by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

Well I finally got into beta, and I guess it was for the better so I don't waste money on yet another waste of time MMO.

Personally it feels like SWTOR with action oriented combat. All of the classes feel the same to me, only difference is between the melee and ranged ones. Again the key word here is feel. Sometimes a game just "feels" good to you, other times it does not. This game does not have a good "feel" to it for me. Again, I feel like I am playing SWTOR but without the great class stories. Just another themepark fetch and kill MMO with easy mode "x marks the spot" questing. I was not expecting revolutionary, but I was not expecting such a been there done that feel.

Yes it is beta, but this is core stuff that I doubt will change much for release.

To be fair I have not gotten to a high level in the slightest, but I don't really want to.... therein lies the problem.

That's a shame. It looks like a really fun game from the videos.

Is it at least a bit fun or just a drag?

#13 Posted by MBirdy88 (8336 posts) -


Looking foward to everquest landmark and star citizen more than any mmo atm...

#14 Posted by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@ChiefvsGordon said:

i was actually looking forward to it, then it they announced subscription based. give me a good free mmo dang it

Quite a few good free MMOs out there.

#15 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

@vfibsux said:

Well I finally got into beta, and I guess it was for the better so I don't waste money on yet another waste of time MMO.

Personally it feels like SWTOR with action oriented combat. All of the classes feel the same to me, only difference is between the melee and ranged ones. Again the key word here is feel. Sometimes a game just "feels" good to you, other times it does not. This game does not have a good "feel" to it for me. Again, I feel like I am playing SWTOR but without the great class stories. Just another themepark fetch and kill MMO with easy mode "x marks the spot" questing. I was not expecting revolutionary, but I was not expecting such a been there done that feel.

Yes it is beta, but this is core stuff that I doubt will change much for release.

To be fair I have not gotten to a high level in the slightest, but I don't really want to.... therein lies the problem.

That's a shame. It looks like a really fun game from the videos.

Is it at least a bit fun or just a drag?

Yea the videos are a great marketing tool because they gave me that impression as well. The game is designed to be light hearted and fun, it is like WoW in that respect as well. If you are not an old school jaded MMORPG fan waiting for that warm and fuzzy again like me you can still have fun with it. It was just too "been there done that" for me.....I sincerely feel like I have played this game before. Literally.

It does have some different aspects to it that are pretty cool, like I said been there done that. Despite what the tool in a previous post said I am mature enough to not divulge details about the beta so I won't get into them.

This is a personal thing for me, I in no way am one of those people who is going to say a game sucks or will bomb just because I don't like it. I think it will still do very well, knowing me and my harmful addiction to this genre I will still give it a shot lol. I was pretty jaded my first post up there and it shows, I'm over it now so i can speak more rationally.

Bottom line, /hype off.

#16 Edited by Geminon (1095 posts) -

@ChiefvsGordon said:

i was actually looking forward to it, then it they announced subscription based. give me a good free mmo dang it

so you want a game that is good.... but you dont want to pay for it....

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

do you go to work every day and say "no no... its OK boss, ill work for free. you dont have to pay me"

yeah, didnt think so.

#17 Posted by lambalot (1798 posts) -

Was in one of the Beta event's played about 30mins before i was tired of it. Nothing new at all, so it's not for me.

#18 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@lambalot said:

Was in one of the Beta event's played about 30mins before i was tired of it. Nothing new at all, so it's not for me.

Pretty much feel ya there, about as big a been there done that feeling as I've gotten through an MMO. Well done, just been done before....over and over and over.

#19 Edited by ChiefvsGordon (1085 posts) -

@Geminon said:

@ChiefvsGordon said:

i was actually looking forward to it, then it they announced subscription based. give me a good free mmo dang it

so you want a game that is good.... but you dont want to pay for it....

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

do you go to work every day and say "no no... its OK boss, ill work for free. you dont have to pay me"

yeah, didnt think so.

i think companies should be able to provide a quality mmo without the subscription. obviously i would pay the retail price for the game but why should i have to pay for online. if it is good enough i would buy the expansions. i was just mainly disappointed by the face that i thought it was going to be a non subscription based mmo,I may have misheard tho.

#20 Posted by Geminon (1095 posts) -

@ChiefvsGordon said:

@Geminon said:

@ChiefvsGordon said:

i was actually looking forward to it, then it they announced subscription based. give me a good free mmo dang it

so you want a game that is good.... but you dont want to pay for it....

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

do you go to work every day and say "no no... its OK boss, ill work for free. you dont have to pay me"

yeah, didnt think so.

i think companies should be able to provide a quality mmo without the subscription. obviously i would pay the retail price for the game but why should i have to pay for online. if it is good enough i would buy the expansions. i was just mainly disappointed by the face that i thought it was going to be a non subscription based mmo,I may have misheard tho.

you arent paying for online.... you are paying for the devs continuing development of the game after release.

the fact of the matter is, MMOs are typically patched 1-2 times per month. they also release content packs that that require significant investment and time to develop. that is what you are paying for per month. F2P games are lucky to get content updates once per year.... whereas pay to play games typically receive content updates every 3-4 months.

what i REALLY think is the crux of this is you want something for nothing. gamers today feel self entitled.... they think devs owe them something for nothing. for some reason they do not value after the sale development, and think that DLC and or content patches should be free because they already "bought the game". the fact of the matter is, you payed for the game, not all the stuff that comes after its release. just like you paid for the game, you should expect to pay for that later content as well. it costs the devs money to make it, so it should cost you money to play it.

nobody owes anyone anything. pay for it, or dont play.

#21 Edited by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@ChiefvsGordon said:

i think companies should be able to provide a quality mmo without the subscription. obviously i would pay the retail price for the game but why should i have to pay for online. if it is good enough i would buy the expansions.

Guild Wars 2

#23 Posted by Kh1ndjal (2484 posts) -

@Geminon: I've spent more than a hundred dollars on f2p games over the last year, but I don't want to 15 dollars a month for a game I don't even know I'll play for a month

#24 Edited by Geminon (1095 posts) -

@Kh1ndjal said:

@Geminon: I've spent more than a hundred dollars on f2p games over the last year, but I don't want to 15 dollars a month for a game I don't even know I'll play for a month

sounds like your priorities are all fucked up then.

you get a free month. after a month, if you still dont know if you wanna keep playing, then chances are you should just stop and move on.

an MMO is no different from any other game. you pay 60 dollars, and you may or may not like it. you have an entire month to decide. you could go to the store and pay 60 dollars for the latest singleplayer game, play it for an hour and absolutely hate it. you would still be out 60 dollars. same goes for an MMO. you are not OBLIGATED to pay for a second month. there is absolutely no reason at all that MMOs should be free to play other than gamers being selfish little whiners that want things given to them at no cost.

are devs catering to that lately...? yes... yes they are. are they making money? yes, they are. does that mean it is the correct path... no, it does not.

#25 Posted by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@Geminon said:

@Kh1ndjal said:

@Geminon: I've spent more than a hundred dollars on f2p games over the last year, but I don't want to 15 dollars a month for a game I don't even know I'll play for a month

sounds like your priorities are all fucked up then.

you get a free month. after a month, if you still dont know if you wanna keep playing, then chances are you should just stop and move on.

an MMO is no different from any other game. you pay 60 dollars, and you may or may not like it. you have an entire month to decide. you could go to the store and pay 60 dollars for the latest singleplayer game, play it for an hour and absolutely hate it. you would still be out 60 dollars. same goes for an MMO. you are not OBLIGATED to pay for a second month. there is absolutely no reason at all that MMOs should be free to play other than gamers being selfish little whiners that want things given to them at no cost.

are devs catering to that lately...? yes... yes they are. are they making money? yes, they are. does that mean it is the correct path... no, it does not.

MMOs on their first month should have like a "Trial" Month where you don't need to sign up or anything, just try the game.

I hate that I have to create an account and then might not play past the free month ever again.

#26 Edited by Maroxad (8350 posts) -

Gotta love it when people break the NDA. I have far more respect for the right for consumers to know what they are getting into than I have for corporate censorship.

So it is a banal product, that is poorly designed mechanics wise. So just what I expected then. Shame. At least the endgame could still be good, but I guess I will stay away from this game, good to know.

#27 Posted by Maroxad (8350 posts) -

@FelipeInside: Wait, I dont really understand this. You do have a trial month although you need to sign up. But if games didnt require players to sign up, how will the game remember your characters? Sure you might say you can just store them locally, but that is just begging for servers infested with hacked characters.

#28 Edited by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

@FelipeInside: Wait, I dont really understand this. You do have a trial month although you need to sign up. But if games didnt require players to sign up, how will the game remember your characters? Sure you might say you can just store them locally, but that is just begging for servers infested with hacked characters.

Well, I don't know how it would work, I'm just saying it would be nice, like a sort of demo. I hate having online accounts I never use. And issue also is most of the time you can never delete your account. It stays there forever !!!

#29 Posted by Geminon (1095 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

@Geminon said:

@Kh1ndjal said:

@Geminon: I've spent more than a hundred dollars on f2p games over the last year, but I don't want to 15 dollars a month for a game I don't even know I'll play for a month

sounds like your priorities are all fucked up then.

you get a free month. after a month, if you still dont know if you wanna keep playing, then chances are you should just stop and move on.

an MMO is no different from any other game. you pay 60 dollars, and you may or may not like it. you have an entire month to decide. you could go to the store and pay 60 dollars for the latest singleplayer game, play it for an hour and absolutely hate it. you would still be out 60 dollars. same goes for an MMO. you are not OBLIGATED to pay for a second month. there is absolutely no reason at all that MMOs should be free to play other than gamers being selfish little whiners that want things given to them at no cost.

are devs catering to that lately...? yes... yes they are. are they making money? yes, they are. does that mean it is the correct path... no, it does not.

MMOs on their first month should have like a "Trial" Month where you don't need to sign up or anything, just try the game.

I hate that I have to create an account and then might not play past the free month ever again.

again, this is no different than a single player game. you pay for the game, go home, and play it. say you play it for an hour and dont like it...well then you are out your 60 bucks either way.

are you saying that single player games should be free for a trial period as well?

it is the exact same principle. nobody is forcing you to pay for the second month. if you dont like the game, then dont pay the sub. you are just out the 60 bucks like you would be if you didnt like a singleplayer game that you bought. if you DO like the game though, then you are paying each month to support the devs while they continue to improve the game, and add new content.

#31 Edited by vfibsux (4205 posts) -
@Geminon said:

@Kh1ndjal said:

@Geminon: I've spent more than a hundred dollars on f2p games over the last year, but I don't want to 15 dollars a month for a game I don't even know I'll play for a month

sounds like your priorities are all fucked up then.

you get a free month. after a month, if you still dont know if you wanna keep playing, then chances are you should just stop and move on.

an MMO is no different from any other game. you pay 60 dollars, and you may or may not like it. you have an entire month to decide. you could go to the store and pay 60 dollars for the latest singleplayer game, play it for an hour and absolutely hate it. you would still be out 60 dollars. same goes for an MMO. you are not OBLIGATED to pay for a second month. there is absolutely no reason at all that MMOs should be free to play other than gamers being selfish little whiners that want things given to them at no cost.

are devs catering to that lately...? yes... yes they are. are they making money? yes, they are. does that mean it is the correct path... no, it does not.

As an old school MMO player I'm with Geminon (yea I can agree with you dude despite our bitch-slapping each other around from time to time). This f2p thing has gotten out of control imo and is just another entitlement for this new gaming generation to continue demanding from. I have yet to play a f2p MMO that had any longevity for me at all, and the cash shop thing makes me want to smash my face into a brick wall.

#32 Posted by Maroxad (8350 posts) -

I cant say I am a fan of F2P or B2P at all.

  1. Monthly fees help keep out the lowest of the low, since not everyone can use a credit card ot pay for said monthly fees.
  2. Monetary investments keep the worst behavior out, since there is money spent behind each account.
  3. Monthly fees mean the developers are motivated to invest their revenue on keeping players in the game as opposed to spending stuff on the cash shop, look at Lotro, Turbine even aknowledged that most of the money came from those who played the game for a month or so and then quit. Now who do you think they would cater for: The regulars or the mmo jumpers? For an alternate example, look at GW2, their updates and business model is clearly designed around creating rushed out experiences to sell "buy them while they are hot" souvenirs.
  4. I would rather not have a cash shop shoved in my face. I can't think of a single mmo where the cash shop isnt shoved in my face one way aor another.

Give me monthly fees, I would rather have a cash shop minimalistic experience and actual support rather than having the cash shop thrown in my face constantly and/or have support so laughably pathetic that even journalists complain about it now.

#33 Posted by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@Geminon said:

again, this is no different than a single player game. you pay for the game, go home, and play it. say you play it for an hour and dont like it...well then you are out your 60 bucks either way.

are you saying that single player games should be free for a trial period as well?

it is the exact same principle. nobody is forcing you to pay for the second month. if you dont like the game, then dont pay the sub. you are just out the 60 bucks like you would be if you didnt like a singleplayer game that you bought. if you DO like the game though, then you are paying each month to support the devs while they continue to improve the game, and add new content.

You didn't understand my post.

All I said was I hate creating online accounts for something I might not use in the future, and leave the account there forever. It's just a personal thing. I wish there was a way that you could try MMOs without creating an account, simple.

Nothing to do with paying or supporting the devs.

#34 Edited by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

I cant say I am a fan of F2P or B2P at all.

Give me monthly fees, I would rather have a cash shop minimalistic experience and actual support rather than having the cash shop thrown in my face constantly and/or have support so laughably pathetic that even journalists complain about it now.

You really need to stop bashing GW2 in every MMO thread dude, it's getting too obvious, lol......

#35 Edited by airshocker (29932 posts) -

@Croag821 said:

No offense but when your not mature enough to respect the NDA you signed and you don't even level "in the slightest" before passing judgement on a game in CLOSED BETA your opinion doesn't hold much salt in my book.

How can he get to a high level if the game doesn't give him the desire to? Why should I have to slog through a game that isn't enjoyable just to find out if it gets better later on? That makes no sense.

The fact that you WANT him to do that tells me your opinion isn't worth jack shit.

#36 Posted by Maroxad (8350 posts) -

@FelipeInside: Ehh it is fun. Though it has gotten a lot less amusing since certain fanboys (who I wont name, you know who you are), stopped with their ad hominem attacks.

Regardless, the overall post is an attack on lack of monthly fees. That article was very recent, and is about what I consider to be one of the worst offenders, so I brought it up.

#37 Posted by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Croag821 said:

No offense but when your not mature enough to respect the NDA you signed and you don't even level "in the slightest" before passing judgement on a game in CLOSED BETA your opinion doesn't hold much salt in my book.

How can he get to a high level if the game doesn't give him the desire to? Why should I have to slog through a game that isn't enjoyable just to find out if it gets better later on? That makes no sense.

The fact that you WANT him to do that tells me your opinion isn't worth jack shit.

I can't believe it but I agree with Airshocker here.

I have some hardcore WoW friends who are always praising the game and that I should re-sub. Then they say the fun is at end-game, and you just have to put up with leveling. That is not my idea of fun. At least games like GW2, SWTOR and TSW have a very fun leveling experience, on top of the end-game content.

#38 Posted by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -
@Maroxad said:

@FelipeInside: Ehh it is fun. Though it has gotten a lot less amusing since certain fanboys (who I wont name, you know who you are), stopped with their ad hominem attacks.

Regardless, the overall post is an attack on lack of monthly fees. That article was very recent, and is about what I consider to be one of the worst offenders, so I brought it up.

I was just messing with you. I was surprised that you hadn't brought up GW2 earlier, lol.

#39 Posted by Croag821 (2323 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

@airshocker said:

How can he get to a high level if the game doesn't give him the desire to? Why should I have to slog through a game that isn't enjoyable just to find out if it gets better later on? That makes no sense.

The fact that you WANT him to do that tells me your opinion isn't worth jack shit.

I can't believe it but I agree with Airshocker here.

I have some hardcore WoW friends who are always praising the game and that I should re-sub. Then they say the fun is at end-game, and you just have to put up with leveling. That is not my idea of fun. At least games like GW2, SWTOR and TSW have a very fun leveling experience, on top of the end-game content.

I agree with you having to get to end game to have fun is stupid, leveling should be entertaining.

In almost all the MMO's I've played you have to level some to get to the point where you can start building your character the way you want, and the class differences/abilities start to show themselves. If you base every MMO off the first 5 levels then the gameplay for any will be about the same since your so limited on custimization and abilities.

I do not support slogging through a game for hours just to get to the fun part, sorry for being unclear.

#40 Edited by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

Well I never specified what level I got to, it just was not end game. I am a firm believer in the journey, not the destination, when it comes to MMOs because that is what old school was all about....except for a few of them. This was a first impression....which by definition is not going to be a high level review.

#41 Posted by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

I am a firm believer in the journey, not the destination, when it comes to MMOs

I've probably asked this before but did you enjoy MMOs like GW2, SWTOR and The Secret World?

They are very good at producing a fun and interesting leveling experience (journey).

#42 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

@vfibsux said:

I am a firm believer in the journey, not the destination, when it comes to MMOs

I've probably asked this before but did you enjoy MMOs like GW2, SWTOR and The Secret World?

They are very good at producing a fun and interesting leveling experience (journey).

GW2 I have all classes at 80 except Ranger and Thief. SWTOR I got a Sith Assassin into the 30's but if I recall correctly having to grind side quests in between story quests was wearing on me. I just got bored with it honestly. The Secret World has always been on my list but I just haven't gotten the desire built up to try, honestly. I am in a lull right now so maybe this is a good time to give it a shot.

#43 Posted by FelipeInside (25678 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

@FelipeInside said:

@vfibsux said:

I am a firm believer in the journey, not the destination, when it comes to MMOs

I've probably asked this before but did you enjoy MMOs like GW2, SWTOR and The Secret World?

They are very good at producing a fun and interesting leveling experience (journey).

GW2 I have all classes at 80 except Ranger and Thief. SWTOR I got a Sith Assassin into the 30's but if I recall correctly having to grind side quests in between story quests was wearing on me. I just got bored with it honestly. The Secret World has always been on my list but I just haven't gotten the desire built up to try, honestly. I am in a lull right now so maybe this is a good time to give it a shot.

Well looks like you enjoyed GW2, that's good because personally I think it's one of the best MMOs out there.

With SWTOR I agree the "filler" quests were a bit too boring at times. Some of them were ok and fun but most were just fetch quests. The main story arcs are good.

Definitely give TSW a go. It's not your typical MMO, it tries to do things differently. You will have fetch quests (all MMOs have them), but where this game shines is atmosphere, immersion, story and investigation missions.

#44 Edited by Maroxad (8350 posts) -

Definitely give TSW a go, it has the best quests I have seen in the mmorpg genre in a long while. As a matter of fact, I would consider TSW to be quality>quantity: the game. The dungeons too are of high quality.

Edit: And of the recent mmos that had a personal story being a selling point. TSW had the best story by far (though the imperial agent in SWTOR's story wasn't bad either).

#45 Edited by Kh1ndjal (2484 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

I cant say I am a fan of F2P or B2P at all.

  1. Monthly fees help keep out the lowest of the low, since not everyone can use a credit card ot pay for said monthly fees.
  2. Monetary investments keep the worst behavior out, since there is money spent behind each account.
  3. Monthly fees mean the developers are motivated to invest their revenue on keeping players in the game as opposed to spending stuff on the cash shop, look at Lotro, Turbine even aknowledged that most of the money came from those who played the game for a month or so and then quit. Now who do you think they would cater for: The regulars or the mmo jumpers? For an alternate example, look at GW2, their updates and business model is clearly designed around creating rushed out experiences to sell "buy them while they are hot" souvenirs.
  4. I would rather not have a cash shop shoved in my face. I can't think of a single mmo where the cash shop isnt shoved in my face one way aor another.

Give me monthly fees, I would rather have a cash shop minimalistic experience and actual support rather than having the cash shop thrown in my face constantly and/or have support so laughably pathetic that even journalists complain about it now.

everything in the guild wars 2 cash shop can be bought with ingame currency, you just convert it into the cash shop currency which has an exchange rate to stabilize the economy.

in case you have trouble reading or understanding, which is entirely possible because you either didn't bother to learn enough about guild wars 2 or pretended to ignore something so significant, i will repeat again: EVERYTHING in the guild wars 2 item shop can be bought with in game money. and the exchange rate is fairly reasonable, i don't play much and i've bought lots of stuff from it just by exchanging ingame gold.

#46 Edited by Kh1ndjal (2484 posts) -
@Geminon said:

@Kh1ndjal said:

@Geminon: I've spent more than a hundred dollars on f2p games over the last year, but I don't want to 15 dollars a month for a game I don't even know I'll play for a month

sounds like your priorities are all fucked up then.

you get a free month. after a month, if you still dont know if you wanna keep playing, then chances are you should just stop and move on.

an MMO is no different from any other game. you pay 60 dollars, and you may or may not like it. you have an entire month to decide. you could go to the store and pay 60 dollars for the latest singleplayer game, play it for an hour and absolutely hate it. you would still be out 60 dollars. same goes for an MMO. you are not OBLIGATED to pay for a second month. there is absolutely no reason at all that MMOs should be free to play other than gamers being selfish little whiners that want things given to them at no cost.

are devs catering to that lately...? yes... yes they are. are they making money? yes, they are. does that mean it is the correct path... no, it does not.

you can buy a year old single player game for 15 dollars, then you can play it for eternity. free to play multiplayer games like tf2 have near limitless content. i can buy 20 five-year-old singleplayer games for 70 dollars, because steam sales are ridiculous. now paying 15 USD for a five year old MMO sounds silly when often many of them shove you into content you have no interest in.

i have no interest in paying 15 USD a month for many months (my schedule is not as predictable as monthly fees) just so i can get to the endgame, which is apparently where the fun starts but still costs 15 USD.

#47 Posted by Geminon (1095 posts) -

@Kh1ndjal said:
@Geminon said:

@Kh1ndjal said:

@Geminon: I've spent more than a hundred dollars on f2p games over the last year, but I don't want to 15 dollars a month for a game I don't even know I'll play for a month

sounds like your priorities are all fucked up then.

you get a free month. after a month, if you still dont know if you wanna keep playing, then chances are you should just stop and move on.

an MMO is no different from any other game. you pay 60 dollars, and you may or may not like it. you have an entire month to decide. you could go to the store and pay 60 dollars for the latest singleplayer game, play it for an hour and absolutely hate it. you would still be out 60 dollars. same goes for an MMO. you are not OBLIGATED to pay for a second month. there is absolutely no reason at all that MMOs should be free to play other than gamers being selfish little whiners that want things given to them at no cost.

are devs catering to that lately...? yes... yes they are. are they making money? yes, they are. does that mean it is the correct path... no, it does not.

you can buy a year old single player game for 15 dollars, then you can play it for eternity. free to play multiplayer games like tf2 have near limitless content. i can buy 20 five-year-old singleplayer games for 70 dollars, because steam sales are ridiculous. now paying 15 USD for a five year old MMO sounds silly when often many of them shove you into content you have no interest in.

i have no interest in paying 15 USD a month for many months (my schedule is not as predictable as monthly fees) just so i can get to the endgame, which is apparently where the fun starts but still costs 15 USD.

so... you are fine with paying 15 dollars for a single player game that you may hate, will play once, and then never play again....... but you think it is dumb to pay 15 dollars for an MMO that you may end up hating and never playing again... JUST because you can go back and play that singleplayer game 5 years later (no you wont) and have the possibility of maybe enjoying it then (no you wont).

im sensing a bit of a double standard here.

#48 Posted by Kh1ndjal (2484 posts) -
@Geminon said:

@Kh1ndjal said:
@Geminon said:

@Kh1ndjal said:

@Geminon: I've spent more than a hundred dollars on f2p games over the last year, but I don't want to 15 dollars a month for a game I don't even know I'll play for a month

sounds like your priorities are all fucked up then.

you get a free month. after a month, if you still dont know if you wanna keep playing, then chances are you should just stop and move on.

an MMO is no different from any other game. you pay 60 dollars, and you may or may not like it. you have an entire month to decide. you could go to the store and pay 60 dollars for the latest singleplayer game, play it for an hour and absolutely hate it. you would still be out 60 dollars. same goes for an MMO. you are not OBLIGATED to pay for a second month. there is absolutely no reason at all that MMOs should be free to play other than gamers being selfish little whiners that want things given to them at no cost.

are devs catering to that lately...? yes... yes they are. are they making money? yes, they are. does that mean it is the correct path... no, it does not.

you can buy a year old single player game for 15 dollars, then you can play it for eternity. free to play multiplayer games like tf2 have near limitless content. i can buy 20 five-year-old singleplayer games for 70 dollars, because steam sales are ridiculous. now paying 15 USD for a five year old MMO sounds silly when often many of them shove you into content you have no interest in.

i have no interest in paying 15 USD a month for many months (my schedule is not as predictable as monthly fees) just so i can get to the endgame, which is apparently where the fun starts but still costs 15 USD.

so... you are fine with paying 15 dollars for a single player game that you may hate, will play once, and then never play again....... but you think it is dumb to pay 15 dollars for an MMO that you may end up hating and never playing again... JUST because you can go back and play that singleplayer game 5 years later (no you wont) and have the possibility of maybe enjoying it then (no you wont).

im sensing a bit of a double standard here.

you have to purchase an MMO first, so it's more than 15 USD right there, unless it happens to be less than 15 USD and includes a free month (which is rare). on top of that, every 15 USD you spend on a single player will give you a whole new, fulfilling experience. in an mmo, if you finish the game in the first month, you're gonna waste the next month's 15 USD, if you don't, you've wasted this month's time and you're paying for another month despite the fact you didn't really play even 15 hours' worth of content.

you see, you're paying the devs every month, month after month to make new content, but to enjoy the new content, which is always the endgame, you need to have played the rest of the game first. i have a friend who subscribes for two months after each WoW expansion, does all the content there is at the time in weekend marathons then doesn't play until the next one, to get the maximum value for his money.

if i buy a single player for 15 USD that i hate, i've lost 15 USD. if i buy an mmo for 15 USD and get a month free, i lose at least 15 USD. if i think the game gets better on later, then pay for another month and the game turns out to be unplayable, i've lost 30 USD. in a free to play game, i have the luxury for playing as long as i want, then deciding whether it's worth my money. i only buy cosmetic items because the moment i feel like i have to buy stuff to progress, i'm going to quit that game. the f2p games i spend on money are gw2, dota2, and lol. on top of that, people f2p games let everyone play together, it's why lol is so popular, the guy that paid 50 USD for useless skins because he spends 20 hours a week can still have fun with his friend who only plays 3 hours a week and spends no money.

let's not ignore all the other problems of pay2play mmos. devs promising stuff that will come later (fine for singleplayer games because you're not paying every month for them). obvious and plain grinds. microtransactions (even though there might still be a monthly fee). problems finding groups so that you're alienated from 80% of the content because you can't find a group because everyone is playing the endgame.

#49 Edited by Elann2008 (32991 posts) -

Let's put it this way.

World of Warcraft in a year is $180 = 1000 hours played (someone who plays about 3 hours a day). An MMO, you can play 3 hours a day and rack up 90 hours in a month.

Single-player game for a month = 10-15 hours. An RPG, maybe 20-40hrs. But RPGs are becoming scarce.

Single-player game $60 (one game per month) = $720/year

SIngle-player game on sale (one game per month) = $60-120/year (assuming you spend no more than $10 per month on games that are on sale) Which is unlikely to happen because new, great games come out all the time and every now and then, even a gamer on a budget will buy a $50-60 game in the course of the year.

And if you want to compare the hours played, that's no contest. The MMO player will get the better value on both ends.

The chances of someone playing a single-player campaign video game (that they enjoyed) again is probable. Most people just don't. While as with an MMO, if a player really enjoys it, he'll probably play it through the course of its lifetime. In addition, if that MMO player played it for at least 3-8 months, he'll see more playtime/game-time than someone who played the single-player game 2-3 times; which for even someone who loves a single-player game probably won't go through it more than 3 times. That chance is unlikely.

If you are playing one single-player game over and over and not playing anything else. You're not a gamer. And something is definitely wrong with you. At least with an MMO, it isn't designed around a limited set of levels, hours that can be played, etc. So the argument that you only play one game when you play an MMO isn't a sound argument. An MMO has a persistent world and there's progression that goes a long way. Often times, it does not end until the MMO is shutdown.

By assuming both type of gamers enjoyed playing their video games (MMO or SP), the value ($) will favor the MMO player.

There is a bias against MMOs though; that we're paying into something we're not enjoying? Or perhaps, it's too expensive? That is absurd and here's why: $15 per month is still a lot cheaper than a $60 game per month. I'll even entertain the thought further. If you buy two PC games on sale for $10-15 each in a month, that's still $20-30 and that cost more than an MMO subscription. You can see where I'm going with this.

Then you go on about micro-transactions and that has nothing to do whatsoever with monthly subscription. There are single-player games that have micro-transactions (Dead Space 3) albeit it has co-op too. And then you go into F2P, which also has nothing to do with monthly-sub MMO vs single-player game. You're losing the argument badly here buy trying to attack it going off the premise of the argument.

This debate is rather moot. It's been discussed to death. If you factor in that both players enjoy their games and crunch the numbers, you'll see that you cannot argue it from a mathematical standpoint.

#50 Edited by Maroxad (8350 posts) -

@Kh1ndjal: Of course you can convert ingame money to gems. Doesnt change the fact that it is a cash shop in the end. By your logic Runes of Magic doesnt have a cash shop either because you can buy them with ingame money.

You do realize the vast majority of P2P mmos come with a free month? As a matter of fact, the only mmo where I had to agree to a subscription plan before playing was TSW, and even that came with a free month (I would just have gotten charged at the end of the month).

Also that paragraph you wrote with problems P2P causes is absurd.

Grind:

Considering that the worst grinds I have played have always been from F2P games, I strongly disagree with htis one. Heck at least in FF14 and WoW you grind moderately challenging content.

Microtransactions:

They exist in some P2P games, but they are nowhere near as obnoxious as those in F2P games that tend to quite often just be flat out Pay to Win, even when they aren't they tend to get in the way or be plain annoying.

"problems finding groups so that you're alienated from 80% of the content because you can't find a group because everyone is playing the endgame":

What does P2P have to do with this?

As far as I am concerned. P2P is paying for a service. I like to see P2P as cable and F2P and B2P as well, those crappy free shows you can watch. I would rather pay for premium than play a poorly supported F2P game by devs more motivated to make me spend money in their cash shop than keep me interested in the game.

@Elann2008: You nailed it, well said. Gaming as a hobby actually got cheaper while I was playing EverQuest 2 and WoW, why? Because 15 dollars a month is a lot cheaper than 50-60 per game spent (in which I was likely to buy about 2 games in one month), then I ended up buying the games that I missed, when their prices have been heavily cut, so I bought those 60 dollar games for 15 dollars or less.