Do you like RPGs? Play Divinity

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#51 Posted by Gooeykat (3352 posts) -

@MBirdy88: If learning to play the game is work...and it probably is for newcomers to this type of RPG, then it's going to turn them off. Learning curve in any game can be obstacle, that's why tutorials are so important.

#52 Posted by Gooeykat (3352 posts) -

@SerOlmy: Back in the day you actually had to have a pad of paper and pen to write stuff down when you played CRPGs. They didn't track everything you did or "who you needed to talk to next" to proceed. That's part of the game experience, figuring that out on your own with your wits. If it's not explaining game mechanics such as crafting, that's one thing...and I agree, it needs to be explained.

#53 Edited by uninspiredcup (6971 posts) -

@gogoplexiorayo2 said:

I might pick up a game like this when this damn heat ends. So in the middle of September, if im looking for a challenge i might buy it. I completed Morrowind last Autumn and it was fun. Games like that are not hard if you put in the hours and you put your mind to it. But of course, if you have a busy life then this game is not for you. Games like these are for the guys that can play 6 times a week for three hours.

My friend, the sun just gives sun burn and increases the chance of cancer. Summer is mainly filled with annoying children screaming and the sound of hedge-trimmers going through your skull. A dark room with the curtains shut is the best option.

#54 Edited by bussinrounds (1974 posts) -

@-wildflower- said:

@FelipeInside said:

Look at my case: I know for a fact that I will never finish Original Sin, because I know what type of RPG it is... but I bought it for two reasons; to play a bit of an old school RPG again and secondly to support the developer because they have done a great job with it and I want these types of RPGs to still exist. I'll probably also buy Pillars and Torment 2.

Why won't you ever finish the game? Does it have an expiration date? Take your time. Chip away at it. There's nothing that says you have to finish it in "x" amount of days, months, or years. So, unless you have a terminal illness or you die horribly within the next six months, I see no reason why you can't finish it.

Now, if your attention can't stick with something for more than a week or two...

/shrug

I never understood that line of thought myself. Isn't it a positive that you get more for your money and it will just last that much longer ? (if it's good/you're really enjoying it)

I know Felipe only said he knew he would never be able to finish it, but I've seen others actually whine about this as a big negative or something.

#55 Posted by cyloninside (396 posts) -

there is already a thread on this.....

#56 Posted by Gogoplexiorayo2 (113 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: Well i want to be outside in the summer. Im fascinated by the weather and im combining it with hiking to my favorite mountain which is only a short walk away from me. I just cant be inside in times like these. But when the rain and wind comes, then sure yeah.

#57 Posted by FelipeInside (25051 posts) -

@-wildflower- said:

@FelipeInside said:

Look at my case: I know for a fact that I will never finish Original Sin, because I know what type of RPG it is... but I bought it for two reasons; to play a bit of an old school RPG again and secondly to support the developer because they have done a great job with it and I want these types of RPGs to still exist. I'll probably also buy Pillars and Torment 2.

Why won't you ever finish the game? Does it have an expiration date? Take your time. Chip away at it. There's nothing that says you have to finish it in "x" amount of days, months, or years. So, unless you have a terminal illness or you die horribly within the next six months, I see no reason why you can't finish it.

Now, if your attention can't stick with something for more than a week or two...

/shrug

I never understood that line of thought myself. Isn't it a positive that you get more for your money and it will just last that much longer ? (if it's good/you're really enjoying it)

I know Felipe only said he knew he would never be able to finish it, but I've seen others actually whine about this as a big negative or something.

Well flower I still haven't finished Icewind Dale 2 so that gives you an idea, lol.

20 years ago I had plenty of time for long RPG games. I finished Baldurs 1 and 2, the first IceWind Dale, got pretty far in Torment etc. I was at school, not as many obligations as now and there weren't as many games as now.

These days unfortunately my game-time is limited, so I sadly need to choose my spending based on how long a game is, because I enjoy games but I enjoy actually finishing them as well.

I don't think the longevity of a game in hours played determines it's quality. How long a game is, is just as important as how good the gameplay is, graphics, sound etc. I have played games that are 2 hours long which were better than those with 200 hours gameplay, and vice-versa.

I want to try to finish Pillars though cause it's basically the spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate, which is my all-time favourite RPG. But there's also Witcher 3 and Dragon Age 3 which both look great. It's RPG year !!!

#58 Edited by bussinrounds (1974 posts) -

@FelipeInside:

How did I know that would get misinterpreted ? No one's saying that the length/amount of content determines or has anything to do with quality. (Just look at Beth's games, mmos..)

And of course I'd rather play a good short game over a shitty long one. But for argument's sake, say you have games of identical quality, I'll take the one that's gonna give me more bang for my buck.

Having to worry about ..too many games to play, is a good problem to have. It's like saying, I have too many (good) players on my team ! LOL

^get off that watch dogs and finish Torment

#59 Posted by FelipeInside (25051 posts) -

@FelipeInside:

How did I know that would get misinterpreted ? No one's saying that the length/amount of content determines or has anything to do with quality. (Just look at Beth's games, mmos..)

And of course I'd rather play a good short game over a shitty long one. But for argument's sake, say you have games of identical quality, I'll take the one that's gonna give me more bang for my buck.

Having to worry about ..too many games to play, is a good problem to have. It's like saying, I have too many (good) players on my team ! LOL

^get off that watch dogs and finish Torment

My point wasn't directed at your post or trying to contradict what you said, I was just merely explaining my side of view and my situation.

To complete Torment I would have to start from scratch cause I don't remember anything. I actually did a few years back with the widescreen high resolution mod but it just felt too dated and I couldn't get into it again.

I am looking forward to part 2... I might have to watch an ending walkthrough of the first one so I'm up to date with the story, although I don't know if they are connected?

#60 Posted by HandsomeTrot (4 posts) -

So the game is finished for the 1st time now...

Its time for a different approach to chars and skills :) Lets play...

#61 Posted by Byshop (10967 posts) -

It's a good and solid game, and it is -very- old school. Combat balance (at least early on) is overly challenging. Literally everywhere I go I get my ass kicked by enemies that are at least a level or two above me, and outnumber me by at least 2:1 even with a full party. Even the weakest foes I fight can kill my guys in two hits whereas it takes me 5 or 6 to take them down. I can't seem to find anywhere that I can just grind to improve my level. Still, I get the impression that if I put the time in that this game will be very rewarding. The problem is, I don't know if I'll ever have the time for a game like this. Back in the day, when I was a teenager and just getting my license, I was searching every fish corpse along Lock Lake to find the key to the shed for the Hoe of Destruction. These days, I have a full time job, a wife, two kids and a semblance of a social life. This is a game that requires a lot of time and attention, and I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to really put the effort in.

-Byshop

#62 Edited by kozzy1234 (35125 posts) -

Best rpg in years, combat is a breath of fresh air. You just have to use you're brain.

#63 Edited by sleepingzzz (2260 posts) -

Are people playing on hard? I been playing on normal and don't think it's all that challenging. I'm not saying it's easy but, I found DAO to be harder. I think I've only lost one fight and that was to a boss that was two levels above me. I made a fire mage and rogue for my mains but, I don't find them to be any better than the two companions you pick up in the first city.

Haven't had many problems questing either. I seem to finish them simply by wandering around and fighting enemies. I'm a bit confused as too why so many people are having a hard time with it. Crafting is simply dragging and dropping items that look like they go together. If your skill level is too low it will pop up a message on screen.

#64 Edited by kozzy1234 (35125 posts) -

Best rpg in years, combat is a breath of fresh air. You just have to use you're brain.

@Byshop said:

It's a good and solid game, and it is -very- old school. Combat balance (at least early on) is overly challenging. Literally everywhere I go I get my ass kicked by enemies that are at least a level or two above me, and outnumber me by at least 2:1 even with a full party. Even the weakest foes I fight can kill my guys in two hits whereas it takes me 5 or 6 to take them down. I can't seem to find anywhere that I can just grind to improve my level. to really put the effort in.

Wierd, I disagree 100% that part of you're post. I am 120 hours into the game and have yet to feel overpowered at all. Unless of course you go somewhere that has higher leveled enemies (then come back later). I have not had to do any grinding either, there is so many quests and random things to do in this games areas that Grinding has yet to cross my mind at all, just go with the flow and you will find more then enough things to do for exp.

#65 Edited by kozzy1234 (35125 posts) -
@Byshop said:

It's a good and solid game, and it is -very- old school. Combat balance (at least early on) is overly challenging. Literally everywhere I go I get my ass kicked by enemies that are at least a level or two above me, and outnumber me by at least 2:1 even with a full party. Even the weakest foes I fight can kill my guys in two hits whereas it takes me 5 or 6 to take them down. I can't seem to find anywhere that I can just grind to improve my level.

Wierd, I have 120 hours in the game and I have yet to feel super overwhelmed by combat, UNLESS I am in an area where the enemies are much higher level than me (just have to use some common sense in battles). There is so many side quests and random things to do that I have not yet had to go grind somewhere in this game. If you just explore and go with the flow there is more than enough things to get you exp. It definatly takes a little bit of time this game, but at the same time in reality it is just an old school rpg that you need to pay attention to, not really spend crazy amounts of time on.

My suggestion is to just play little bits at a time and maybe find a coop partner that can show you the ropes if you are having trouble with combat early on? The combat gives you a ton of tools to use and ways to go about winning, don't be scared to experiment (also it could have something to do with how you built/created your characters early on).

The start of the game i did not find overpowering at all, which makes me think maybe you went to some area that was to high level for you're characters? Anyways, take your time, make sure you have good equipment,etc.. and good luck man!

**One more thing, you do get exp for exploring and also some stuff you can do without tons of fights**

#66 Posted by sleepingzzz (2260 posts) -

I do find it strange that gamespot has yet to review the game. I guess that what happens when they don't pay for one.

#67 Posted by Byshop (10967 posts) -

Best rpg in years, combat is a breath of fresh air. You just have to use you're brain.

@Byshop said:

It's a good and solid game, and it is -very- old school. Combat balance (at least early on) is overly challenging. Literally everywhere I go I get my ass kicked by enemies that are at least a level or two above me, and outnumber me by at least 2:1 even with a full party. Even the weakest foes I fight can kill my guys in two hits whereas it takes me 5 or 6 to take them down. I can't seem to find anywhere that I can just grind to improve my level. to really put the effort in.

Wierd, I disagree 100% that part of you're post. I am 120 hours into the game and have yet to feel overpowered at all. Unless of course you go somewhere that has higher leveled enemies (then come back later). I have not had to do any grinding either, there is so many quests and random things to do in this games areas that Grinding has yet to cross my mind at all, just go with the flow and you will find more then enough things to do for exp.

Perhaps I am just not using "I are" brain. I'm in the first town and I've level 4, I have a Witch and a Knight and I've found the other Source Hunter chick and the spellcaster who hates demons. If I head out of town to the east, I encounter killer dogs who end up taking me down after I kill 1 or 2. If I go west, I run into orcs that are a lot stronger than the ones that I fought to get to the town, and only after wading through several instantkill traps that nobody in my party can see. If I go north I hit undead who end up killing me with numbers, or the graveyard outside of town and all the fun that entails, or -burning- undead. I get that I can wander around the town talking to every NPC and "literally" looking under over stone, but again it's about time commitment at that point.

-Byshop

#68 Posted by SerOlmy (1619 posts) -

@Byshop:

Welcome to Divinity's idea of "Exploration". By that I mean the the illusion of it. It is in the same vein of telling a 5 year old that they are free to roam the entire park and then cracking them in the head with a stick whenever they don't "explore" in the exact area you intend. Eventually they get the message and go in the direction that they are being directed. But hey, exploration!

#69 Posted by Byshop (10967 posts) -

@SerOlmy said:

@Byshop:

Welcome to Divinity's idea of "Exploration". By that I mean the the illusion of it. It is in the same vein of telling a 5 year old that they are free to roam the entire park and then cracking them in the head with a stick whenever they don't "explore" in the exact area you intend. Eventually they get the message and go in the direction that they are being directed. But hey, exploration!

Level four and the first town is not enough of a data sample to say that I know how the rest of the game will be. Some games just have a steep initial learning curve.

-Byshop

#70 Edited by SerOlmy (1619 posts) -

@Byshop: You are a more patient man than I. After 8 hours in the starting town that was a sufficiently large data sample for me to conclude that I was wasting my time playing as I was getting no enjoyment out of the game. Just tedium and frustration.

EDIT: Your avatar makes me smile.


#71 Edited by Maroxad (7850 posts) -

Best RPG I have played in ages, and all my old school RPG fan friends agree. It is nice to return to a proper old school RPG, where brainpower and actually reading stuff is rewarded. Taking down enemy groups 3 times your size that are also 2 levels highers is so dang satisfying. Lack of level scaling, how I missed you in RPGs.

Edit: @Gooeykat They could probably expand the tutorial a bit. To like you said, describe mechanics better. Granted it comes pretty natural to some of us who played Action Point TB RPGs, but I understand that at the same time, a lot of gamers are new to this kind of stuff. It would increase accessability while not really letting the game take a hit in depth, provided that it is optional and not mandatory.

#72 Posted by Byshop (10967 posts) -

@SerOlmy: Thanks. I made it myself by getting eaten over and over and taking screen grabs. :)

@Maroxad: Yeah, the elements you describe are all positive points for this game (no spoonfeeding of objective markers, no scaled monsters, etc) and I love Action Point TB Combat Systems. I'm just not finding a single fight I can win, and at this point I think the expectation is that I have to meander around town leveling through conversation before I can venture out.

Besides combat (which I assume I can get past with some more time/effort), there is one element of this game that I'm not a fan of around the conversations. I miss the old Bioware days when you had like 4 or 5 different ways to resolve each conversation. The choices in this game often seem very binary and sometimes I'm not a fan of either option the game presents you with.

For example: With the guard who had a orc enchanted by a love potion, your options are "it must be true love, plus he can use it for information" or "it's a dangerous beast, kill it with fire". There was no middle ground option like "hey, while it probably won't kill you because it's enchanted, maybe it's wrong to turn a sentient being into your slave". There have been a few times in this game where I was presented with two options and the both seemed amoral to me.

-Byshop

#73 Posted by rabakill (539 posts) -

Combat is easy if you have the elemental advantage. Stay out of pools of water and shock the enemies, teleport the toughest enemies back as far as they go, if an enemy has a fuse on his back make it rain, let summons do the absorbing. If enemies are fire the fire summon gets healed by their attacks and is practically invincible

#74 Edited by Maroxad (7850 posts) -

@Byshop: Have you bought items from the vendors? That might come a long way. Also what is your current party composed of? As for your avatar, reminds me of my childhood playing that game (was about 6 years old), only to end up seeing myself getting eaten like that, over and over again. Hahaha.

And yeah, the dialogue system is easily the weakest link in this game. The writing isnt all that great, and for most of the part most dialogue options have too limited options, though... there are exceptions to that.

#75 Posted by MBirdy88 (7203 posts) -

@SerOlmy said:

@Byshop: You are a more patient man than I. After 8 hours in the starting town that was a sufficiently large data sample for me to conclude that I was wasting my time playing as I was getting no enjoyment out of the game. Just tedium and frustration.

EDIT: Your avatar makes me smile.

..... you are free to explore the town, the game makes it VERY clear that you can't just run into every corner of the widlerness though, the gaurds WARN you when you open the damn doors.

Just accept the reality, its not poorly designed, you are just not very good at this kind of game... a game INTENDED to be difficult. there is no problem with the U.I or information provided.... only an expectation from a casual RPG gamer that wants arrows pointing to everything instead of clues.

#76 Edited by Byshop (10967 posts) -

@Maroxad: Yeah, it's not bad though. Even if I have to pick between two crappy options I like that my choices have agency. Regarding equipment, I looked into that but I don't have a ton of money relative to the cost of better gear, and again since there are no monsters I can grind on for a bit I'm really back to exploring the town and talking to every NPC to be able to proceed unless I resort to stealing. I have armor with a rating of 20 for my Knight, but better spells cost $$$ and I need those to exploit elemental and environmental weaknesses. The next tier of spells require a higher level, too, so that's another catch 22 when I can't beat monsters without better gear/spells but I can't get the money/xp without beating monsters. I'm not saying that there's no way around this, I'm just saying that this is where I'm at and usually an RPG will let you cut your teeth on the combat system a bit more before ramping up the difficulty.

That actually raises an interesting point. In "The Councelor's Wife", the only way I was able to proceed in that quest was to break into what's her name's apartment and basement in her shop to find the evidence I needed to move the story forward. I was reluctant to do that since I was trying to play my characters as "lawful" but eventually it seemed like I didn't have a choice. Was there another option that I missed or was the game steering everyone in that direction?

-Byshop

#77 Edited by Jawad2007 (210 posts) -

its a good game !

#78 Posted by uninspiredcup (6971 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

@SerOlmy said:

@Byshop: You are a more patient man than I. After 8 hours in the starting town that was a sufficiently large data sample for me to conclude that I was wasting my time playing as I was getting no enjoyment out of the game. Just tedium and frustration.

EDIT: Your avatar makes me smile.

..... you are free to explore the town, the game makes it VERY clear that you can't just run into every corner of the widlerness though, the gaurds WARN you when you open the damn doors.

Just accept the reality, its not po

orly designed, you are just not very good at this kind of game... a game INTENDED to be difficult. there is no problem with the U.I or information provided.... only an expectation from a casual RPG gamer that wants arrows pointing to everything instead of clues.

Even just basic common sense, put your mouse over the enemy, it tells you their level.

*shrug*

Pretty much every battle has a way, or several ways to make them considerably easier. Most gamers these days are weened on casual console games so chances are they just charge in and get fucked, essentially.

#79 Edited by rabakill (539 posts) -

The game is held back by the quests in the first town. Outside of Cysael is gorgeous and just plain fun but the characters, quests and layout of the first town hurt the game drastically so much to the point that I dread going back into town and will wander off aimlessly just so I don't have to go back and force myself through the tedious uninteresting quests in the village

There's no logical defence for how bad the village is, it's poorly designed plain and simple and will probably push a lot of people away. The worst part is you are forced to be there for a long time. I'm hoping there's a second part of the game and I never have to return there.

#80 Edited by Maroxad (7850 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

@SerOlmy said:

@Byshop: You are a more patient man than I. After 8 hours in the starting town that was a sufficiently large data sample for me to conclude that I was wasting my time playing as I was getting no enjoyment out of the game. Just tedium and frustration.

EDIT: Your avatar makes me smile.

..... you are free to explore the town, the game makes it VERY clear that you can't just run into every corner of the widlerness though, the gaurds WARN you when you open the damn doors.

Just accept the reality, its not poorly designed, you are just not very good at this kind of game... a game INTENDED to be difficult. there is no problem with the U.I or information provided.... only an expectation from a casual RPG gamer that wants arrows pointing to everything instead of clues.

But he is a troo old school RPG gamer. Seeing games that I beat at the age of 8 as the pinnacle of RPGs.

Every fight is not meant to be fair, sometimes you have to overcome the rather unfair odds through good tactics or playing intelligently. My 3 man party has no problem taking down groups of 8 foes 2 levels higher than me. A quick glance at a foe's appearance and hovering over tends to give me all the clues I need.

And Rabakill, yes there are more parts, if I heard correctly there are 5 sections. Cyseal is section 1.

#81 Posted by FelipeInside (25051 posts) -

I do find it strange that gamespot has yet to review the game. I guess that what happens when they don't pay for one.

The game has been out a week, and it's massive; give them some time to actually play it.

#82 Posted by bussinrounds (1974 posts) -
#83 Posted by Byshop (10967 posts) -

@Maroxad: I'm over the hurdle now. I cleared the traps on the west beach that I can't detect by having one of the fighters break from the group and deliberately set them off. I have the Captain arrest Esmerelda even though I'm pretty sure she's not the murderer because I needed to advance the quest and get the XP, but I resolved to go after the healer's apprentace rather than try to force a confession. I leveled up my caster's skills so she could learn Blitz Bolt like what's-his-name. Then I skulked around outside the town only picking fights I thought I had a chance of winning until I was able to start turning the tide of fights in my favor, then after a few battles and getting more XP/equipment I'm taking on bigger and bigger fights. The combat system is very, very satisfying and now I'm having a blast with the game.

-Byshop

#84 Edited by Maroxad (7850 posts) -

Looking back at this thread some posts are just... amazing.

"I like a good story but Divinity just throws you in the game and you have to figure everything out."
"I do like some RPG's, but not like this one. There is to many menus for me to enjoy it"
"Without quest markers you are left with running around talking to EVERYONE once you hit a wall where you don't know how to progress."

What is wrong with an old school RPG, one that even advertised itself as being one have complexity and turn based combat? This game was advertised since day one to focus on the old school RPG market demographic. You are allowed to not like the game of course, but the reasons for you to bash it come across as ridiculous to the rest of us. It is like being a vegan, buying a meal at a local barbeque or steakhouse then complain because there was meat in the meal.

Is it really that hard to read quest dialogue? I guess that it can be a bit understandable since most RPGs have devolved into turn off your brain, do mindless tasks and collect loot, XP and gold that the genre appearantly devolved into. Back then we used to jot down quest notes in addition to maps. Read between lines, check your map and the markers on it and If it is too hard to memorize stuff (such as quest clues), just jot them down. Also remember, quests arent super linear A->B kind of affair, sometimes there is more than one solution to the quest. Stuck on a quest where you need to obtain a certain item from someone? Kill him, or steal from him then.

@bussinrounds: It does do well indeed from reviewers. Even better than most AAA (triple action?) RPGs. Shows that even critics have some decent tastes every now and then.

#85 Edited by SerOlmy (1619 posts) -

@Maroxad:

I still to this day will not count any RPG as better than the original NWN. Most would say BG and Torment were better from a story perspective and they may be right. But the way everything seemed to come together in NWN and Hordes (Undrentide was teh lame) was amazing. The story was great, the companions were great, the pacing was great, the combat was exactly the way I enjoy it. And the visuals were much better than anything before it IMO. It was really a step forward. Unfortunately most of the games that came after it were steps backward - NWN2, DA:O, DA:2 I would argue are far inferior to NWN for a variety of reasons. Hell, I liked it so much I spent 2 years participating in and DMing for one of the largest persistent worlds created using NWN resources.

Like I said a lot of people might not agree, but I hold NWN+expansions up as the pinnacle of old-school RPGs, everything after was a step backwards. I'm really hoping Eternity can recapture that because Divinity at least for me didn't even come close.

#86 Posted by Maroxad (7850 posts) -

@SerOlmy: You are entitled to your opinion. But we all know by now that we disagree on both quality, best timekeeping system and what old school is and isnt.

This game is exactly what I have been looking for for a while. So it works great for me, and I also hope Eternity is good, the more RPG goodness the better. Not to mention, I want to see an RPG finally prove me wrong in that RTwP can actually not be complete and utter trash.

#87 Edited by rabakill (539 posts) -

So what RPGs might be better than this?

Dragon age: maybe, will see

witcher: not for me

Pillars of eternity: has an art style that I find very pleasing. If the gameplay is half as good as divinity its a win

What else? I want a game that has that sense of awe and wonder similar to Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale where the environments seem to be real and worn with time.

One big problem with Divinity is the lore is stupid, childish really. For instance the graveyard wasn't really a graveyard and what should have been enthralling was completely ruined by moronic lore that just completely ruined the immersion. I always try to be objective and divinity has stellar AAA gameplay with cartoony graphics, weak storytelling, uninteresting characters and not really any unique items. Randomized loot is a bad idea, I want to find some mage robes hidden away in some corner with a story behind who owned it and why it's special. Outdated robe of fire resistance; come on that's just so lame that it amazes me professional developers can put something so weak in a game.

#88 Edited by SovietsUnited (1779 posts) -

I'm about to start playing it.
For me, the Divinity games along with Two World and other euro-RPGs always had that self-aware, adventurous charm; hopefully this one is no exception

#89 Edited by XIntoTheBlue (842 posts) -

@SerOlmy said:

@Maroxad:

I still to this day will not count any RPG as better than the original NWN. Most would say BG and Torment were better from a story perspective and they may be right. But the way everything seemed to come together in NWN and Hordes (Undrentide was teh lame) was amazing. The story was great, the companions were great, the pacing was great, the combat was exactly the way I enjoy it. And the visuals were much better than anything before it IMO. It was really a step forward. Unfortunately most of the games that came after it were steps backward - NWN2, DA:O, DA:2 I would argue are far inferior to NWN for a variety of reasons. Hell, I liked it so much I spent 2 years participating in and DMing for one of the largest persistent worlds created using NWN resources.

Like I said a lot of people might not agree, but I hold NWN+expansions up as the pinnacle of old-school RPGs, everything after was a step backwards. I'm really hoping Eternity can recapture that because Divinity at least for me didn't even come close.

Really? When NwN was fairly new, everybody seemed to be hating on NwN's story campaign (with the last expansion being an exception). As far as story, writing, and atmosphere goes, BG2 takes the cake. Now for the toolset, DM tools, and things along those lines, NwN has those in spades. I loved using a website called Neverwinter Connections back on those days. It was perfect to organize or find an event to be hosted by a DM and you could have your own little online PnP experience. It's a shame NwN has been the only game from my experience to have DM tools. Wish more RPG devs would implement something like that.

#90 Posted by FelipeInside (25051 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

@SerOlmy: You are entitled to your opinion. But we all know by now that we disagree on both quality, best timekeeping system and what old school is and isnt.

This game is exactly what I have been looking for for a while. So it works great for me, and I also hope Eternity is good, the more RPG goodness the better. Not to mention, I want to see an RPG finally prove me wrong in that RTwP can actually not be complete and utter trash.

NWN was a pretty good game, but nowhere near the same quality as BG and Torment.

It was great cause it had the whole new 3D isometric angle.... the co-op and the amazing toolset. As an RPG it did a lot of things right too, but had a lot of copy and paste as well (some parts remind me of Dragon Age 2).

Shame NWN2 never lived up to the same legacy.

#91 Posted by livingundead (222 posts) -

I think some of these people complaining are nuts. I understand, some people might not like because it isn't a specific sub genre. However, some of the reasons are pretty nit-picky.

I mean, you need outside resources to figure out where to go? Why? Did you not read your journal? Did you not pay attention to the main NPCs in the main areas. They give you directions and it's recorded in your journal. It's not difficult. You don't even need to follow your journal. Often you just end up in and area and there is an update by an party conversation.

Most of the puzzles are just common sense.

The only thing difficult about the game is combat. It takes practice. I know some people like to just jump in on the hardest difficulty, and some people can. I started off easy, because I'm not great at Strat RPGs, or CRPGs. So I started easy to get the feel of the game during beta. Once it got too easy I restarted, based on what mistakes I made building my previous character and started in Normal. Normal got too easy. I could kill a group of 6 lvl 11 goblins with my lvl 9 group.

Think of it like Batman/Arkham games, but the detective mode requires you to actually figure things out. Read, and pay attention to what you're doing and what NPCs say to you.

If you think D:OS is difficult, go back and play Fallout 1 & 2 - way harder on easy mode compared to Divinity in Hard mode.

#92 Posted by Byshop (10967 posts) -
@SerOlmy said:

@Maroxad:

I still to this day will not count any RPG as better than the original NWN. Most would say BG and Torment were better from a story perspective and they may be right. But the way everything seemed to come together in NWN and Hordes (Undrentide was teh lame) was amazing. The story was great, the companions were great, the pacing was great, the combat was exactly the way I enjoy it. And the visuals were much better than anything before it IMO. It was really a step forward. Unfortunately most of the games that came after it were steps backward - NWN2, DA:O, DA:2 I would argue are far inferior to NWN for a variety of reasons. Hell, I liked it so much I spent 2 years participating in and DMing for one of the largest persistent worlds created using NWN resources.

Like I said a lot of people might not agree, but I hold NWN+expansions up as the pinnacle of old-school RPGs, everything after was a step backwards. I'm really hoping Eternity can recapture that because Divinity at least for me didn't even come close.

Eh, I'm kind of with you and kind of not. NWN was an awesome game, but in some ways -that- was the one that was a step backwards for me because they removed some of the standard tropes you get with D&D games specifically (i.e. making it not really party based but just you and a companion). That's OK in some RPGs, but in a D&D based game specifically that hurts the experience for me. NWN2, by comparison, felt more like a full D&D game plus I loved the banter between the party members and the influence system.

DA1 had a poorly balanced combat system. Too many stun attacks and unavoidable boss grapples. When I have to add poison 1 to every one of my party members so I can exploit the cooldown timer on grenades just to win battles then I don't feel like I'm using intelligent tactics so much as cheating the system. Everything else in DA1 I thought was great, though.

DA2 had better balance in the combat and better cutscenes/character animation for better story delivery but sucked at everything else.

-Byshop

#93 Edited by Maroxad (7850 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

@Maroxad said:

@SerOlmy: You are entitled to your opinion. But we all know by now that we disagree on both quality, best timekeeping system and what old school is and isnt.

This game is exactly what I have been looking for for a while. So it works great for me, and I also hope Eternity is good, the more RPG goodness the better. Not to mention, I want to see an RPG finally prove me wrong in that RTwP can actually not be complete and utter trash.

NWN was a pretty good game, but nowhere near the same quality as BG and Torment.

It was great cause it had the whole new 3D isometric angle.... the co-op and the amazing toolset. As an RPG it did a lot of things right too, but had a lot of copy and paste as well (some parts remind me of Dragon Age 2).

Shame NWN2 never lived up to the same legacy.

1. NWN isnt isometric, nor is Divinity: Original Sin. Do not confuse overhead with isometric.

2. The only good thing about NWN1 was the Hordes of the Underdark expansion, the DM tools and module creation tools. The combat sucked because you could only control one character, the third edition of D&D was terribly balanced, high level D&D (which you would spend most of the game playing) has serious issues and D&D, no matter what edition just doesnt work in real time, be it ARPG or RTwP RPG.

3. Neverwinter Nights 2 with Mask of the Betrayer is better than anything BioWare has done save for BG2. Mask of the Betrayer was one of the best RPGs of last gen.

#94 Edited by bussinrounds (1974 posts) -

The OC for NWN was DOGSHIT. It was basically done to show off the toolset. Even Bioware said so.

But it's the pinnacle of classic RPGs, right SerOlmy ? (I do hope your talking about the tools/modules/dm client and not the god awful OC)

Listen to Maroxad ppl. He talks sense.

From a story elements perspective, MotB is better than BG2. From a gameplay standpoint, BG wins.

#95 Edited by uninspiredcup (6971 posts) -

@rabakill said:

What else? I want a game that has that sense of awe and wonder similar to Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale where the environments seem to be real and worn with time.

You must have just started the game. The environments and the lore specifically revolve around ancient history and lived in environments.

.

#96 Edited by Maroxad (7850 posts) -

@bussinrounds said:

From a story elements perspective, MotB is better than BG2. From a gameplay standpoint, BG wins.

This is true. Baldur's Gate 2 dialogue was mostly saved by some incredible voice overs by David Warner's performance, the writing itself wasnt particulary good. While better than their Star Wars fanfic that was Kotor 1 or 3 pointless fetch quests that was NWN, the writing as a whole was still pretty darn cheesy, if not cringeworthy (I removed Aerie from my party because her whining was really getting on my nerves). I never understood the notion that RPGs must be storydriven. Divinity: Original Sin, doesnt exactly have the best writing or story to go around, but it really doesnt matter all too much. Why? Because the gameplay is top notch. Good writing helps, but has never been a must, and this game is a testament to that.

Though, a good RPG can be excellent through a superb story alone. Like Planescape: Torment and Mask of the Betrayer was. Devs should focus on doing what they can do well, and do it well.

#97 Posted by uninspiredcup (6971 posts) -

Baldurs Gate has it's problems as well. Divinity: Original Sin doesn't respawn enemies and tends to have varied enemies with specific ways to tackle them.

While Baldurs Gate doesn't piss around in a town like Divinity (which is debatable if it is a negative) it tends to just spam the same specific enemies over and over. Most of Baldurs Gate 1 involved fighting orcs and wolves over and over.

#98 Posted by faizanhd (121 posts) -

Really guys ? Is it really so hard to read a freaking manual ?

#99 Posted by FelipeInside (25051 posts) -

@faizanhd said:

Really guys ? Is it really so hard to read a freaking manual ?

This game doesn't come with a manual :P

#100 Posted by uninspiredcup (6971 posts) -

@faizanhd said:

Really guys ? Is it really so hard to read a freaking manual ?

This game doesn't come with a manual :P

Right "view manual" on your steam list.