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#1 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2105382/move-over-mantle-microsoft-to-reveal-next-gen-closer-to-the-metal-directx-12-at-gdc.html

very interesting. I would have bet a paycheck that directx 12 would never happen. I am glad I didnt

#2 Posted by nicecall (428 posts) -

so i cant use this in windows 7 when it gets released... i think mantle will still have a chance then since its already in place and dx12 will take forever for games to use. and no real person wants to use windows 8 or windows 9 vista 2.0

#3 Edited by KHAndAnime (13612 posts) -

@nicecall said:

so i cant use this in windows 7 when it gets released... i think mantle will still have a chance then since its already in place and dx12 will take forever for games to use. and no real person wants to use windows 8 or windows 9 vista 2.0

All the people who were forced to get Windows 8 with their new PCs are typing up their hate responses towards you right now.

I've had the option to use Windows 8, and it sucked. I didn't spend time customizing it because it wasn't my PC, I've only had the opportunity to use it on other computers, so obviously that effected my experience with it. People will defend it because it's what they chosen (or had chosen for them) and are stuck with it. The truth is that if people had the opportunity to buy Windows 7 and not worry about being left behind by stuff like this, the majority would have just done that. Instead they get Windows 8 and go through great lengths just so its functionality and UI behaves like Windows 7 - but you're still left with a relatively closed system with little customization options compared to Windows 7.

Microsoft knows the only thing they can do to keep gamers onboard their OS subscription cycle is force them to upgrade just to take advantage of their hardware and play games on the highest settings. Don't forget, just like with the release of DX10, unless you have the latest DX they will arbitrarily make it so you can't use common graphics features like MSAA, HDR, advanced shaders, etc. unless you upgrade.

#4 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

#5 Posted by 04dcarraher (19467 posts) -
@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

#6 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

that is the standard formula of the past but I get a feeling that standard formula may change.

I think your confidence that its 'a fact' is based on how they have done things in the past. Its a radically different day for Microsoft now, even more so for the entertainment divisions

#7 Edited by AlexKidd5000 (1763 posts) -
@04dcarraher said:
@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

Which is why I'm a huge proponent of OpenGL, the maintainers of it do not own an OS, so they put it on everything, and therefore is not dependant on an OS, but rather on video card drivers. Why are PC gamers so adamant on defending directx, and wanting it to continue having a stranglehold on PC games? Support OpenGL instead. Might as well support Linux as well since you are not forced to use an interface you don't like there, and can use whatever the hell you want.

#8 Posted by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -

@nicecall said:

so i cant use this in windows 7 when it gets released... i think mantle will still have a chance then since its already in place and dx12 will take forever for games to use. and no real person wants to use windows 8 or windows 9 vista 2.0

All the people who were forced to get Windows 8 with their new PCs are typing up their hate responses towards you right now.

I've had the option to use Windows 8, and it sucked. I didn't spend time customizing it because it wasn't my PC, I've only had the opportunity to use it on other computers, so obviously that effected my experience with it. People will defend it because it's what they chosen (or had chosen for them) and are stuck with it. The truth is that if people had the opportunity to buy Windows 7 and not worry about being left behind by stuff like this, the majority would have just done that. Instead they get Windows 8 and go through great lengths just so its functionality and UI behaves like Windows 7 - but you're still left with a relatively closed system with little customization options compared to Windows 7.

Microsoft knows the only thing they can do to keep gamers onboard their OS subscription cycle is force them to upgrade just to take advantage of their hardware and play games on the highest settings. Don't forget, just like with the release of DX10, unless you have the latest DX they will arbitrarily make it so you can't use common graphics features like MSAA, HDR, advanced shaders, etc. unless you upgrade.

Again, why does everyone take for granted that you have to upgrade hardware (RAM, CPU, Monitor, Motherboard, GPU etc) to get the latest graphics and performance yet chuck a spastic when you have to upgrade software. This type of thinking is beyond my comprehension.

And don't worry if you're on Win7, you have YEARS of gaming left. The only time I HAD to upgrade from XP to 7 was when Just Cause 2 came out and wasn't compatible with XP, and that was after a decade of playing games on XP. Chill out folks, DirectX12 doesn't mean all of a sudden all games won't be Win7 compatible.

#9 Edited by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@AlexKidd5000 said:
@04dcarraher said:
@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

Which is why I'm a huge proponent of OpenGL, the maintainers of it do not own an OS, so they put it on everything, and therefore is not dependant on an OS, but rather on video card drivers. Why are PC gamers so adamant on defending directx, and wanting it to continue having a stranglehold on PC games? Support OpenGL instead. Might as well support Linux as well since you are not forced to use an interface you don't like there, and can use whatever the hell you want.

agreed.

I used to be one of those standard PC gamers and then I learned that Android was Linux and that got me to start looking more into what was going on in the industry.

If I was to start working on gaming I would go directly to OpenGL and Unity.

#10 Edited by KHAndAnime (13612 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@04dcarraher said:
@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

that is the standard formula of the past but I get a feeling that standard formula may change.

I think your confidence that its 'a fact' is based on how they have done things in the past. Its a radically different day for Microsoft now, even more so for the entertainment divisions

The type of business Microsoft is, the practice that makes them the most money short term and long term is the business practice they'll pursue. Expecting them to change is expecting too much. People who want to make software platforms more open to the public are passionate people that care to see innovation in all directions. You're confusing the passionate people in other parts of the industry with the people at Microsoft. Microsoft is ultimately just run by a bunch of suits who like making huge amounts of money, so they will continue to lock down their products, considering that is becoming the status quo anyways (thanks almost purely to Apple).

#11 Edited by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@KHAndAnime said:

@SEANMCAD said:

@04dcarraher said:
@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

that is the standard formula of the past but I get a feeling that standard formula may change.

I think your confidence that its 'a fact' is based on how they have done things in the past. Its a radically different day for Microsoft now, even more so for the entertainment divisions

The type of business Microsoft is, the practice that makes them the most money short term and long term is the business practice they'll pursue. Expecting them to change is expecting too much. People who want to make software platforms more open to the public are passionate people that care to see innovation in all directions. You're confusing the passionate people in other parts of the industry with the people at Microsoft. Microsoft is ultimately just run by a bunch of suits who like making huge amounts of money, so they will continue to lock down their products, considering that is becoming the status quo anyways (thanks almost purely to Apple).

here is the thing.

1. Microsofts bread and butter is business software..not consumer industries. They have a horrible track record in consumer but they have a excellent track record in their enterprise businesses.

2. Historically the main reason to have a PC in the house has been for games and porn. That has been statically proven when Microsoft did a study on this matter. It may have changed but its certainty isnt office. Its most likely still video games and anything that can run in a browser. Thus..the only reason to buy a Windows PC an not a tablet or Chromebook is Windows PC games. Thus..they have to make a long hail mary pass for the end zone or get out of the game completely.

I will be interested to see which direction they take. I am of the mind that they should focus on strengths with is business software like Sharepoint.

#12 Posted by 04dcarraher (19467 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@04dcarraher said:
@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

that is the standard formula of the past but I get a feeling that standard formula may change.

I think your confidence that its 'a fact' is based on how they have done things in the past. Its a radically different day for Microsoft now, even more so for the entertainment divisions

Highly doubt MS will allow dx 12 on 7 let alone put 11.1 & .2 on 7. MS want people to buy new OS's and a new direct x limited to it is sure way of ensuring sales.

#13 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@04dcarraher said:
@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

that is the standard formula of the past but I get a feeling that standard formula may change.

I think your confidence that its 'a fact' is based on how they have done things in the past. Its a radically different day for Microsoft now, even more so for the entertainment divisions

Highly doubt MS will allow dx 12 on 7 let alone put 11.1 & .2 on 7. MS want people to buy new OS's and a new direct x limited to it is sure way of ensuring sales.

nope.

See here is the thing

Windows in the office = lock...easy...done..no brainer.

Windows in the home = challenge....up in the air..major threat from others.

Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players and I understand exactly why they are making such statements. How enterprise customers works is COMPLETELY different from consumer based markets.

#14 Posted by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

nope.

See here is the thing

Windows in the office = lock...easy...done..no brainer.

Windows in the home = challenge....up in the air..major threat from others.

Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players and I understand exactly why they are making such statements. How enterprise customers works is COMPLETELY different from consumer based markets.

Abandon the home and leave it for other players?

What kind of drugs are you on?

They own business so they just keep pushing the home market since that is where the competition is.

#15 Posted by 04dcarraher (19467 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@04dcarraher said:

@SEANMCAD said:

@04dcarraher said:
@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

that is the standard formula of the past but I get a feeling that standard formula may change.

I think your confidence that its 'a fact' is based on how they have done things in the past. Its a radically different day for Microsoft now, even more so for the entertainment divisions

Highly doubt MS will allow dx 12 on 7 let alone put 11.1 & .2 on 7. MS want people to buy new OS's and a new direct x limited to it is sure way of ensuring sales.

nope.

See here is the thing

Windows in the office = lock...easy...done..no brainer.

Windows in the home = challenge....up in the air..major threat from others.

Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players and I understand exactly why they are making such statements. How enterprise customers works is COMPLETELY different from consumer based markets.

Yet all past directions and decisions made by MS has shows different pattern and this will not change. Hence same direction as their Xbox one forcing people to use the kinect.

#16 Posted by cyloninside (493 posts) -

@nicecall said:

so i cant use this in windows 7 when it gets released... i think mantle will still have a chance then since its already in place and dx12 will take forever for games to use. and no real person wants to use windows 8 or windows 9 vista 2.0

windows 8.1 is better than windows 7. get with the times.

#17 Posted by GTR12 (9354 posts) -

DX12 wont even be used for games, look what happened to DX10, it came out after consoles launched and barely used, only by a couple of games, no developer will use this or it will only be a couple of very few select devs.

#18 Posted by wis3boi (31279 posts) -

we've barely even used or started to use 11....my gut says it will end up like 10.1 and 11.1...i.e. sitting there being useless.

#19 Posted by PredatorRules (7793 posts) -

Finally Microsoft starts to care about gamers when they start to feel threathened by every gamer to change OS into Linux, I actually would gladly change into the free Linux if it suits my gaming needs, seriously the only thing that keep us gamers keep paying them 100$ for a copy is the Direct X.

#20 Posted by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -

Finally Microsoft starts to care about gamers when they start to feel threathened by every gamer to change OS into Linux, I actually would gladly change into the free Linux if it suits my gaming needs, seriously the only thing that keep us gamers keep paying them 100$ for a copy is the Direct X.

But what if Windows was free for some users?

Oh yeah it might happen: http://games.on.net/2014/03/friday-tech-roundup-07-march-2014-microsoft-experiments-with-a-free-version-of-windows/

#21 Edited by groowagon (2798 posts) -

cool i guess. anything but Mantle. i'm not seeing Mantle as a healthy option for GPU competition since it's AMD controlled...

#22 Posted by PredatorRules (7793 posts) -

@PredatorRules said:

Finally Microsoft starts to care about gamers when they start to feel threathened by every gamer to change OS into Linux, I actually would gladly change into the free Linux if it suits my gaming needs, seriously the only thing that keep us gamers keep paying them 100$ for a copy is the Direct X.

But what if Windows was free for some users?

Oh yeah it might happen: http://games.on.net/2014/03/friday-tech-roundup-07-march-2014-microsoft-experiments-with-a-free-version-of-windows/

Well it said it's dubbed with Bing, they might force you to use Bing instead of Google - this is unacceptable for me.

Also this is only upgrade for free or low cost which is now still undetermined for users who already own WIndows copy.

#23 Posted by Horgen (110079 posts) -

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

#24 Posted by ronvalencia (15110 posts) -

@wis3boi said:

we've barely even used or started to use 11....my gut says it will end up like 10.1 and 11.1...i.e. sitting there being useless.

DX10.1 wasn't useless since NVIDIA released it's kit-bashed DX10.1 like extensions.

Read http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2008/10/22/nvidia-gpus-support-dx10-1-features-in-far-cry-2/1

"The Ubisoft team wanted to enhance the anti-aliasing through the reading of the multisampled depth Z-buffers, explained Vincent Greco, Worldwide Production Technical Coordinator at Ubisoft. "This feature was enabled by either using DX10.1 or using a DX10.0 extension supported by Nvidia DirectX 10 GPUs."

#25 Posted by Cyberdot (3523 posts) -

Windows 8 only... Once again, FUCK YOU Microsoft!

Not gonna switch to the eyesore, DX12 won't be fully used in games for a while anyway.

#26 Posted by groowagon (2798 posts) -

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

i don't like the usability of Win8 from a pure desktop point of view. if it's not broken, don't fix it. i understand why they went there, but it doesn't serve desktop users one bit.

#27 Posted by 04dcarraher (19467 posts) -

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

People aren't against upgrading windows its the problem of are you actually getting something better that is not intrusive. Windows 7 to 8 from a desktop point of view is a mess and in many ways is counter productive, Desktop users with 8 have to fight with Metro and pointless changes, and many modify 8 to act and look more like 7 with the UI. Its no mystery why windows 8 adoption rate is awful compared to 7's. And this is why MS with the next update before moving on to 9 is going to be a band-aid to some of the complaints like actually having mouse and keyboard control. being able to close apps with a click vs dragging it down from screen, adding a dedicated shutdown button. etc.

Hopefully MS learned from their mistakes with 8 and provide desktop users with a proper OS with 9.

#28 Edited by KHAndAnime (13612 posts) -

@horgen123 said:

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

$80+ for a Direct X upgrade doesn't seem steep to you? If there's nothing else you need from the next Windows, essentially that's exactly what you're paying for. If you're going to vote with your money, might as well not vote for the guys trying so hard to extract the money out of your wallet in a snakey way, know what I mean? Otherwise you're just giving an arsonist matches - don't be surprised when Microsoft sets your metaphorical house on fire. We've all spent hundreds and hundreds on operating systems in the last decade (XP, Vista, 7, 8) - is it too much to ask for something that doesn't end up in our garbage a few years down the line? It's only in the garbage because Microsoft wants it there, and you don't mind it being there.

I don't hate Microsoft. I believe in general, their new Windows are upgrades over the previous versions. I'd like them a lot more though if I bought a new Operating System because I'd like a faster operating system with a better UI, more functionality, and more options. The only reason I've bought them so far is for DX upgrades. Ultimately DX upgrades are going to push all gamers to the new OS until Microsoft thinks they don't need gamers anymore. But that won't happen. It's annoying business practice, especially when Microsoft knows they have gamers' balls in a vice grip. And I hate annoying business practice.

Also, I'm not optimistic that they will change. I think they will only change when they have to.

#29 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

nope.

See here is the thing

Windows in the office = lock...easy...done..no brainer.

Windows in the home = challenge....up in the air..major threat from others.

Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players and I understand exactly why they are making such statements. How enterprise customers works is COMPLETELY different from consumer based markets.

Abandon the home and leave it for other players?

What kind of drugs are you on?

They own business so they just keep pushing the home market since that is where the competition is.

you didnt read a single word I wrote.

#30 Edited by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@04dcarraher said:

@SEANMCAD said:

@04dcarraher said:
@SEANMCAD said:

given the radical changes in the industry and Microsoft specifically I think it might be premature to assume that DirectX 12 will even be OS dependent at all, let alone Windows 8 only.

MS will not allow DX 12 on 7 thats a fact,also they didn't even allow direct x 11.1+ on 7. At most they will allow an dx 12 update on 8. Chances it will be windows 9+ feature.

that is the standard formula of the past but I get a feeling that standard formula may change.

I think your confidence that its 'a fact' is based on how they have done things in the past. Its a radically different day for Microsoft now, even more so for the entertainment divisions

Highly doubt MS will allow dx 12 on 7 let alone put 11.1 & .2 on 7. MS want people to buy new OS's and a new direct x limited to it is sure way of ensuring sales.

nope.

See here is the thing

Windows in the office = lock...easy...done..no brainer.

Windows in the home = challenge....up in the air..major threat from others.

Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players and I understand exactly why they are making such statements. How enterprise customers works is COMPLETELY different from consumer based markets.

Yet all past directions and decisions made by MS has shows different pattern and this will not change. Hence same direction as their Xbox one forcing people to use the kinect.

Windows Smart phones that allow android on them....yup its real and yes that is a radical departure from standard MS roadmap.

#31 Posted by AlexKidd5000 (1763 posts) -
@wis3boi said:

we've barely even used or started to use 11....my gut says it will end up like 10.1 and 11.1...i.e. sitting there being useless.

Which begs the question, why is DirectX so important then?

#32 Edited by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@FelipeInside said:

@SEANMCAD said:

nope.

See here is the thing

Windows in the office = lock...easy...done..no brainer.

Windows in the home = challenge....up in the air..major threat from others.

Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players and I understand exactly why they are making such statements. How enterprise customers works is COMPLETELY different from consumer based markets.

Abandon the home and leave it for other players?

What kind of drugs are you on?

They own business so they just keep pushing the home market since that is where the competition is.

you didnt read a single word I wrote.

Yes I did, you and those key investors you made up are both on the same drugs.

#33 Posted by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -
@SEANMCAD said:

Yet all past directions and decisions made by MS has shows different pattern and this will not change. Hence same direction as their Xbox one forcing people to use the kinect.

Windows Smart phones that allow android on them....yup its real and yes that is a radical departure from standard MS roadmap.

Again Sean, talking without knowing? I see.

They are not Windows Phones that allow android, they are the Nokia X Series which are Android Phones with it's own Nokia Distro, specifically aimed at low end markets like India and the likes to get a hold on that type of market. It doesn't even run full Android.

#34 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@FelipeInside said:

@SEANMCAD said:

nope.

See here is the thing

Windows in the office = lock...easy...done..no brainer.

Windows in the home = challenge....up in the air..major threat from others.

Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players and I understand exactly why they are making such statements. How enterprise customers works is COMPLETELY different from consumer based markets.

Abandon the home and leave it for other players?

What kind of drugs are you on?

They own business so they just keep pushing the home market since that is where the competition is.

you didnt read a single word I wrote.

Yes I did, you and those key investors you made up are both on the same drugs.

i am done with your trolling and am looking into how to put you on ignore

#35 Posted by glez13 (8759 posts) -

@wis3boi said:

we've barely even used or started to use 11....my gut says it will end up like 10.1 and 11.1...i.e. sitting there being useless.

Which begs the question, why is DirectX so important then?

Because it's basically what everyone uses? Also since MS backs it up it always has people testing it out and making advances. For example OpenGL while it even has a forum dedicated for anyone interested in contributing it's basically a wasteland and many reported bugs are left untended and who knows how many are unreported. That's why it's interesting to see what Valve's push for Linux will end up in because since they started putting resources on it they have figured a lot of stuff in OpenLG that was basically left alone to die. Of course it's also interesting what this rumored "Mantle light" DX12 will be all about.

#36 Posted by KHAndAnime (13612 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

i am done with your trolling and am looking into how to put you on ignore

Stop pretending that these are fully featured forums, comparable to other forums on the internet. There is no ignore button. Blame Jeff Gerstmann, if he sucked up to advertisers like he was supposed to - GiantBomb wouldn't exist and there would have been no website merger, effectively destroying the forums that we all liked to use in the past.

#37 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@FelipeInside said:

@SEANMCAD said:

nope.

See here is the thing

Windows in the office = lock...easy...done..no brainer.

Windows in the home = challenge....up in the air..major threat from others.

Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players and I understand exactly why they are making such statements. How enterprise customers works is COMPLETELY different from consumer based markets.

Abandon the home and leave it for other players?

What kind of drugs are you on?

They own business so they just keep pushing the home market since that is where the competition is.

you didnt read a single word I wrote.

Yes I did, you and those key investors you made up are both on the same drugs.

http://www.eteknix.com/microsoft-investor-wants-to-fire-ballmer-and-sell-xbox-division/

that is not even the same investor company I was referring to.

still looking for a way to put you on ignore. I am tired of it.

#38 Posted by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

i am done with your trolling and am looking into how to put you on ignore

Oh of course, someone has a different view from you and that automatically makes them a troll right? RIGHT?

Get a grip, what you said was ridiculous and just be a man and admit it. As if MS would be better off abandoning the market where they have held a grip for so many years because they now have competition.

I understand you love Android and your Chromebook and your Linux, but at least look at the big picture.

#39 Posted by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -

@horgen123 said:

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

People aren't against upgrading windows its the problem of are you actually getting something better that is not intrusive. Windows 7 to 8 from a desktop point of view is a mess and in many ways is counter productive, Desktop users with 8 have to fight with Metro and pointless changes, and many modify 8 to act and look more like 7 with the UI. Its no mystery why windows 8 adoption rate is awful compared to 7's. And this is why MS with the next update before moving on to 9 is going to be a band-aid to some of the complaints like actually having mouse and keyboard control. being able to close apps with a click vs dragging it down from screen, adding a dedicated shutdown button. etc.

Hopefully MS learned from their mistakes with 8 and provide desktop users with a proper OS with 9.

Ok, a few things to point out.

- With the 8.1 update and the next big future update coming next month Windows 8 is fine to use with a keyboard and mouse. To open a program it requires the same amount of clicks and is just as easy to use. They have moved a few things around but they do that with every new Windows.

- The adoption rate is fine, and has picked up in the last 3-6 months.

- People keep using the word "intrusive". Someone please tell me where Windows 8 is intrusive? I'm on desktop mode right now and if someone came in, they couldn't tell if it was Windows Vista, 7 or 8. I barely see the menu.

- I don't see the big problem anyway. Windows 7 has at least a decade left of support. Why are people crying so much about 8? If you don't want to upgrade, don't. Simple.

#40 Posted by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

i am done with your trolling and am looking into how to put you on ignore

Oh of course, someone has a different view from you and that automatically makes them a troll right? RIGHT?

Get a grip, what you said was ridiculous and just be a man and admit it. As if MS would be better off abandoning the market where they have held a grip for so many years because they now have competition.

I understand you love Android and your Chromebook and your Linux, but at least look at the big picture.

and yet another link

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/02/05/investors-want-microsofts-new-ceo-to-kill-xbox-bing-and-surface/

how many time and how many articles do I have to link?

fuck me running

#41 Edited by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -
@SEANMCAD said:

@FelipeInside said:

@SEANMCAD said:

i am done with your trolling and am looking into how to put you on ignore

Oh of course, someone has a different view from you and that automatically makes them a troll right? RIGHT?

Get a grip, what you said was ridiculous and just be a man and admit it. As if MS would be better off abandoning the market where they have held a grip for so many years because they now have competition.

I understand you love Android and your Chromebook and your Linux, but at least look at the big picture.

and yet another link

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/02/05/investors-want-microsofts-new-ceo-to-kill-xbox-bing-and-surface/

how many time and how many articles do I have to link?

fuck me running

No dude, you didn't explain yourself to start with.

These articles are mostly about XBOX, we are talking about Windows here and you said Microsoft should abandon the home market.

Ignore me if you want, you seem to do that with every single poster on these forums that have a different opinion than you and bring up subjects you don't like to discuss. Easy to have a discussion like that with only people that agree with you.

I'm no troll, I call things like I see them, and I've called you out various times when you say things just to prove a point. Like today when you commented on the Windows Phones that run Android.

#42 Edited by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

@PredatorRules said:

Finally Microsoft starts to care about gamers when they start to feel threathened by every gamer to change OS into Linux, I actually would gladly change into the free Linux if it suits my gaming needs, seriously the only thing that keep us gamers keep paying them 100$ for a copy is the Direct X.

But what if Windows was free for some users?

Oh yeah it might happen: http://games.on.net/2014/03/friday-tech-roundup-07-march-2014-microsoft-experiments-with-a-free-version-of-windows/

Well it said it's dubbed with Bing, they might force you to use Bing instead of Google - this is unacceptable for me.

Also this is only upgrade for free or low cost which is now still undetermined for users who already own WIndows copy.

Nah, it's just IE and a few other things Bing Co-branded. They wouldn't force you to use Bing, just have it as default with ads. Even if they forced you, there would be a way around it.

They are testing it as an upgrade option but are also looking into it as a full product. Problem is that most of their services are already free, so it's a tricky one.

#43 Edited by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:
@SEANMCAD said:

@FelipeInside said:

@SEANMCAD said:

i am done with your trolling and am looking into how to put you on ignore

Oh of course, someone has a different view from you and that automatically makes them a troll right? RIGHT?

Get a grip, what you said was ridiculous and just be a man and admit it. As if MS would be better off abandoning the market where they have held a grip for so many years because they now have competition.

I understand you love Android and your Chromebook and your Linux, but at least look at the big picture.

and yet another link

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/02/05/investors-want-microsofts-new-ceo-to-kill-xbox-bing-and-surface/

how many time and how many articles do I have to link?

fuck me running

No dude, you didn't explain yourself to start with.

These articles are mostly about XBOX, we are talking about Windows here and you said Microsoft should abandon the home market.

Ignore me if you want, you seem to do that with every single poster on these forums that have a different opinion than you and bring up subjects you don't like to discuss. Easy to have a discussion like that with only people that agree with you.

I'm no troll, I call things like I see them, and I've called you out various times when you say things just to prove a point. Like today when you commented on the Windows Phones that run Android.

I am responding to my comment regarding key investors.

Please go back and re-read what I said. You still do not understand and I can not make it any more simple for you. re-read what I have said, think about it, study it a bit

I never said, not eluded, that the key investors where interested in selling off windows.

for this discussion it will really help if you read what I said

#44 Edited by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

I am responding to my comment regarding key investors.

Please go back and re-read what I said. You still do not understand and I can not make it any more simple for you. re-read what I have said, think about it, study it a bit

I never said, not eluded, that the key investors where interested in selling off windows.

for this discussion it will really help if you read what I said

I get your point now but we are on the PC Forum, talking about Windows and you said "Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players"

Please tell me how I, or any other poster, would have deducted that you were talking about XBOX and not Windows?

For this discussion, it will really help if you're clearer next time and stick with the subject at hand.

#45 Edited by SEANMCAD (5464 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

@SEANMCAD said:

I am responding to my comment regarding key investors.

Please go back and re-read what I said. You still do not understand and I can not make it any more simple for you. re-read what I have said, think about it, study it a bit

I never said, not eluded, that the key investors where interested in selling off windows.

for this discussion it will really help if you read what I said

I get your point now but we are on the PC Forum, talking about Windows and you said "Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players"

Please tell me how I, or any other poster, would have deducted that you were talking about XBOX and not Windows?

For this discussion, it will really help if you're clearer next time and stick with the subject at hand.

just go away please....

I have already explained it, you refuse to understand it. In fact I have been saying the same thing many times on GS over the past 2 months. The same simple thing to understand

move on.

#46 Posted by FelipeInside (25451 posts) -

@SEANMCAD said:

@FelipeInside said:

@SEANMCAD said:

I am responding to my comment regarding key investors.

Please go back and re-read what I said. You still do not understand and I can not make it any more simple for you. re-read what I have said, think about it, study it a bit

I never said, not eluded, that the key investors where interested in selling off windows.

for this discussion it will really help if you read what I said

I get your point now but we are on the PC Forum, talking about Windows and you said "Key investors (who I agree with) have been saying Microsoft needs to focus on business only, leave the homes for the other players"

Please tell me how I, or any other poster, would have deducted that you were talking about XBOX and not Windows?

For this discussion, it will really help if you're clearer next time and stick with the subject at hand.

just go away please....

I have already explained it, you refuse to understand it. In fact I have been saying the same thing many times on GS over the past 2 months. The same simple thing to understand

move on.

Fine, I'll move on. Sorry you don't know how to explain yourself, talk outside the subject at hand and then blame the other poster and tell him to go away.

#47 Edited by 04dcarraher (19467 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:
@04dcarraher said:

@horgen123 said:

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

People aren't against upgrading windows its the problem of are you actually getting something better that is not intrusive. Windows 7 to 8 from a desktop point of view is a mess and in many ways is counter productive, Desktop users with 8 have to fight with Metro and pointless changes, and many modify 8 to act and look more like 7 with the UI. Its no mystery why windows 8 adoption rate is awful compared to 7's. And this is why MS with the next update before moving on to 9 is going to be a band-aid to some of the complaints like actually having mouse and keyboard control. being able to close apps with a click vs dragging it down from screen, adding a dedicated shutdown button. etc.

Hopefully MS learned from their mistakes with 8 and provide desktop users with a proper OS with 9.

Ok, a few things to point out.

- With the 8.1 update and the next big future update coming next month Windows 8 is fine to use with a keyboard and mouse. To open a program it requires the same amount of clicks and is just as easy to use. They have moved a few things around but they do that with every new Windows.

- The adoption rate is fine, and has picked up in the last 3-6 months.

- People keep using the word "intrusive". Someone please tell me where Windows 8 is intrusive? I'm on desktop mode right now and if someone came in, they couldn't tell if it was Windows Vista, 7 or 8. I barely see the menu.

- I don't see the big problem anyway. Windows 7 has at least a decade left of support. Why are people crying so much about 8? If you don't want to upgrade, don't. Simple.

- Their adding these "normal" features because of the complaints, Most of windows 8 numbers are from products which are forced/installed on them, and does not help it was Christmas a few months ago too inflating numbers .

- Windows 8 is intrusive.... having the user to switch from one UI to another, them "MS" changing many aspects and options making it counter productive for desktops, and having to modify 8 to act and look like 7 in desktop mode is just sad.

- Windows support does mean they will update the OS to function normally with modern programs and features. Just like how XP does not support direct x10+, nor ie 9+. Then how about Win 7 and no directx 11.1 or 11.2 support. Most people are complaining because windows 8 does not add much to improve from 7 and forcing people to learn and put up with a intrusive interface and having to modify it if they want a semi usable desktop mode. Limiting dx features to new OS's isnt new.

#48 Posted by Horgen (110079 posts) -

@horgen123 said:

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

i don't like the usability of Win8 from a pure desktop point of view. if it's not broken, don't fix it. i understand why they went there, but it doesn't serve desktop users one bit.

Without having actually tested it, I can see why. My impression though is that the search function is better the OS is faster if you are used/willing to use the keyboard more. And as Felipe says, 8.1 is alot more like Win 7.

@horgen123 said:

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

$80+ for a Direct X upgrade doesn't seem steep to you? If there's nothing else you need from the next Windows, essentially that's exactly what you're paying for. If you're going to vote with your money, might as well not vote for the guys trying so hard to extract the money out of your wallet in a snakey way, know what I mean? Otherwise you're just giving an arsonist matches - don't be surprised when Microsoft sets your metaphorical house on fire. We've all spent hundreds and hundreds on operating systems in the last decade (XP, Vista, 7, 8) - is it too much to ask for something that doesn't end up in our garbage a few years down the line? It's only in the garbage because Microsoft wants it there, and you don't mind it being there.

I don't hate Microsoft. I believe in general, their new Windows are upgrades over the previous versions. I'd like them a lot more though if I bought a new Operating System because I'd like a faster operating system with a better UI, more functionality, and more options. The only reason I've bought them so far is for DX upgrades. Ultimately DX upgrades are going to push all gamers to the new OS until Microsoft thinks they don't need gamers anymore. But that won't happen. It's annoying business practice, especially when Microsoft knows they have gamers' balls in a vice grip. And I hate annoying business practice.

Also, I'm not optimistic that they will change. I think they will only change when they have to.

Upgrading only for the new DX is pointless yes, but I would not buy a new computer today and ask for Win 7 on it. I would go with Win 8. When you are upgrading your computer, hardware wise, enough to need a new Win7/8 or whatever license, why not get the latest one? I never meant it as getting a new OS for the sake of getting a new OS unless what you use is an abandon one. But simply upgrade it along with upgrading the computer. How quickly you wish to change is up to you. Personally went from XP to 7, and I regret not upgrading to Win 8 when it super cheap. Could have gotten the OS for 15$ or so.

#49 Edited by 04dcarraher (19467 posts) -
@horgen123 said:

@groowagon said:

@horgen123 said:

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

i don't like the usability of Win8 from a pure desktop point of view. if it's not broken, don't fix it. i understand why they went there, but it doesn't serve desktop users one bit.

Without having actually tested it, I can see why. My impression though is that the search function is better the OS is faster if you are used/willing to use the keyboard more. And as Felipe says, 8.1 is alot more like Win 7.


8.1 is not alot like win 7 unless you add start 8 etc. Now when windows 8.1.1 "8.2" comes out ,it will return the normal windows features that desktop should have had to begin with.

#50 Posted by Elann2008 (32953 posts) -

@horgen123 said:

Why are people so against upgrading Windows? I expect to upgrade to Win 9 or 10 when I change CPU. Though atm I have no reason to upgrade the CPU.

People aren't against upgrading windows its the problem of are you actually getting something better that is not intrusive. Windows 7 to 8 from a desktop point of view is a mess and in many ways is counter productive, Desktop users with 8 have to fight with Metro and pointless changes, and many modify 8 to act and look more like 7 with the UI. Its no mystery why windows 8 adoption rate is awful compared to 7's. And this is why MS with the next update before moving on to 9 is going to be a band-aid to some of the complaints like actually having mouse and keyboard control. being able to close apps with a click vs dragging it down from screen, adding a dedicated shutdown button. etc.

Hopefully MS learned from their mistakes with 8 and provide desktop users with a proper OS with 9.

I couldn't agree more. I bought and own a Windows 8 laptop because I was trying to be open-minded. It's not THAT bad, although I hardly use it enough to put my hand through a blender. But, it is counter-productive. Windows 7 is a breeze to use over Windows 8; no contest.