DayZ is moving to a new engine.

#1 Posted by Klunt_Bumskrint (3501 posts) -

KitGuru

Dean Hall

“It is called Enfusion. So that is going to allow us to do DirectX 10 and 11. It is going to allow us to do dynamic lighting, which means no more flashlights going through walls, proper dynamic shadows, stuff like that.”

“It is a complete rip out of everything, but we’re definitely leveraging existing tech. So if you look at Bohemia as a studio they actually acquired a great number of other studios, so really were kind of looking around and taking up tech that is available there and mixing it into the engine, rewriting new stuff from scratch that we want to do as well.”

Or it could be this...

Either way it's an interesting development :)
#2 Edited by harry_james_pot (10296 posts) -

Well yeah they've been doing that for a while now, replacing each part of the current engine. They just decided to give it a name. :D

#3 Edited by pelvist (4560 posts) -

Yeah, I think the picture is likely to be accurate. I have seen the devs mention work they have been doing on a new rendering technique on Reddit a few times now. Looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

#4 Posted by MBirdy88 (7360 posts) -

eta on the game actually being finished? 2017? this should of been obvious to them from the start.... before taking millions from consumors.

#5 Edited by Klunt_Bumskrint (3501 posts) -

They said from the beginning that they would even be in Beta until at least 2015

#6 Posted by airshocker (28723 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

eta on the game actually being finished? 2017? this should of been obvious to them from the start.... before taking millions from consumors.

They didn't take anything. People bought something based on what was shown. I'm still happy with my purchase.

#7 Edited by KHAndAnime (13275 posts) -

Good idea. The further away we get away from a dated engine, the better.

#8 Posted by Nick3306 (2560 posts) -

They didnt move to a new engine, they just changed so much of the old engine they decided to rename it.

#9 Edited by jer_1 (7451 posts) -

Dazy Beta coming...in 2020!

-Dean

#10 Edited by PredatorRules (7203 posts) -

Is that means people will have to pay another 25$ for the new game? technically using a new engine deserves to be called a new game

#11 Posted by MBirdy88 (7360 posts) -

Is that means people will have to pay another 25$ for the new game? technically using a new engine deserves to be called a new game

that logic is highly flawed....

#12 Edited by pelvist (4560 posts) -

Dean Hall mentioned something about Bohemia Interactive announced a new engine on a video interview he did for a German website at E3, anyone know anything about it or a link to that announcement? I had did a search but cant find much.

#13 Posted by _SKatEDiRt_ (2569 posts) -

How does using a new engine fix the flashlights? Are they saying DX9 doesnt do flashlights right? correct me if im wrong but ive seen plenty of DX9 flashlights and they work just fine.

#14 Posted by harry_james_pot (10296 posts) -

How does using a new engine fix the flashlights? Are they saying DX9 doesnt do flashlights right? correct me if im wrong but ive seen plenty of DX9 flashlights and they work just fine.

It's not a new engine, they're just replacing the different components of the current engine. They've been talking about a new rendering engine for a while now, and the new one in addition to having dx11 support, will also do proper dynamic lighting.

#15 Edited by _SKatEDiRt_ (2569 posts) -

@_SKatEDiRt_ said:

How does using a new engine fix the flashlights? Are they saying DX9 doesnt do flashlights right? correct me if im wrong but ive seen plenty of DX9 flashlights and they work just fine.

It's not a new engine, they're just replacing the different components of the current engine. They've been talking about a new rendering engine for a while now, and the new one in addition to having dx11 support, will also do proper dynamic lighting.

ahh i see. thanks!

#16 Edited by MBirdy88 (7360 posts) -
@airshocker said:

@MBirdy88 said:

eta on the game actually being finished? 2017? this should of been obvious to them from the start.... before taking millions from consumors.

They didn't take anything. People bought something based on what was shown. I'm still happy with my purchase.

alright you win that techinicallity, then allow me to change the word "Taken" to "Accepting" ... as in accepting £20 off 2 million people for a game that for a long time and probably still is worse than the mod... and a year later deciding that their engine was'nt good enough (I think anyone could tell that on day 1.)... if this was any normal developer they would have so much hate on them right now.

Oh and, don't kid yourself into thinking "I'm still happy with my purchase" will ever be some valid response... you don't strike me as the type that would EVER admit buyers remorse. Seeing as you defend this new trend of horrible kickstarters and fund them to the point where its now dominating the PC scene with a legion of nowhere near valuable products are being sold for nearly full price years before completion.

#17 Posted by geniobastardo (1294 posts) -

Is that means people will have to pay another 25$ for the new game? technically using a new engine deserves to be called a new game

well I hope not. Because I still haven't got the game.

#18 Edited by naz99 (1143 posts) -

@geniobastardo said:

@PredatorRules said:

Is that means people will have to pay another 25$ for the new game? technically using a new engine deserves to be called a new game

well I hope not. Because I still haven't got the game.

No they don't it is just an upgrade of the game you have already bought.

It is also not really a new engine they are just creating a seprate branch of their existing engines with features pulled from games like Arma 3, take on helicopters etc to better support the mechanics of DayZ (which is what they should have done originally) rather than just using an upgraded Arma 2 engine.As far as i remember the Arma 2 engine did not even originally support enterable buildings it was added later hence the problems with clipping zombies etc.

#19 Posted by Jimmy_Russell (457 posts) -

DayZ uses the Arma II engine which is only DX7 compliant if I remember correctly. The engine also fails to use occlusion culling properly. It's a wonder why anyone even plays it, such a bad game.

#20 Edited by naz99 (1143 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:
@airshocker said:

@MBirdy88 said:

eta on the game actually being finished? 2017? this should of been obvious to them from the start.... before taking millions from consumors.

They didn't take anything. People bought something based on what was shown. I'm still happy with my purchase.

alright you win that techinicallity, then allow me to change the word "Taken" to "Accepting" ... as in accepting £20 off 2 million people for a game that for a long time and probably still is worse than the mod... and a year later deciding that their engine was'nt good enough (I think anyone could tell that on day 1.)... if this was any normal developer they would have so much hate on them right now.

Oh and, don't kid yourself into thinking "I'm still happy with my purchase" will ever be some valid response... you don't strike me as the type that would EVER admit buyers remorse. Seeing as you defend this new trend of horrible kickstarters and fund them to the point where its now dominating the PC scene with a legion of nowhere near valuable products are being sold for nearly full price years before completion.

Umm how about you don't kid yourself into thinking that everyone has to have buyers remorse because you think they should.

And those "horrible kickstarters to you" should be the same for all of us should they? if i have put money on 14 Kickstarters and 8 of them have come through and i have loved them all and i think they have been worth the money are they supposed to be horrible to me aswell even though i have had a good experience everytime from crowdfunding?.

Or is all this your problem that you cannot accept the fact that people can enjoy what you don't and they can find value in things you can't?

#21 Edited by Jimmy_Russell (457 posts) -

Donating money to game development is deplorable when there's children starving on our streets.

#22 Posted by airshocker (28723 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:
@airshocker said:

@MBirdy88 said:

eta on the game actually being finished? 2017? this should of been obvious to them from the start.... before taking millions from consumors.

They didn't take anything. People bought something based on what was shown. I'm still happy with my purchase.

alright you win that techinicallity, then allow me to change the word "Taken" to "Accepting" ... as in accepting £20 off 2 million people for a game that for a long time and probably still is worse than the mod... and a year later deciding that their engine was'nt good enough (I think anyone could tell that on day 1.)... if this was any normal developer they would have so much hate on them right now.

Oh and, don't kid yourself into thinking "I'm still happy with my purchase" will ever be some valid response... you don't strike me as the type that would EVER admit buyers remorse. Seeing as you defend this new trend of horrible kickstarters and fund them to the point where its now dominating the PC scene with a legion of nowhere near valuable products are being sold for nearly full price years before completion.

Of course it's a valid response. Just because you don't like the game has nothing to do with my satisfaction from it.

#23 Edited by cyloninside (429 posts) -

it was a mistake putting it on the old arma engine anyhow... it should have been on the arma3 engine... or just a better engine overall like cryengine or frostbite.

either way.... lol at this game still being atleast a year away from beta after so long in development. it is such a joke now that even rocket ran screaming from the project.

#24 Edited by KHAndAnime (13275 posts) -

@cyloninside said:

it was a mistake putting it on the old arma engine anyhow... it should have been on the arma3 engine... or just a better engine overall like cryengine or frostbite.

either way.... lol at this game still being atleast a year away from beta after so long in development. it is such a joke now that even rocket ran screaming from the project.

It's been in development longer than say...a Call of Duty game, but it hasn't really been that long since Rocket started on DayZ with BI. Aren't you aware most game projects take a few years to complete? Not all games are mass-produced like the CoD series or Battlefield series. ArmA 3's engine was still being heavily worked on during DayZ's development so it likely would've been too much work, though I really wish it was on that engine as well.

And Rocket hasn't left the project, and won't be leaving for ~6 months at least.

#25 Posted by harry_james_pot (10296 posts) -

lol at this game still being atleast a year away from beta after so long in development.

It's a perfectly normal time for game development. When games are at this stage they don't even get announced..

#26 Posted by Arthas045 (5081 posts) -

I need to get in and try the latest update with all the survival stuff..... I am excited to see somethings change with the current engine.

#28 Edited by cablemodemx2 (801 posts) -

Donating money to game development is deplorable when there's children starving on our streets.

Hrrrm, guess I'm quite happily deplorable, then.

#29 Posted by Grey_Eyed_Elf (3676 posts) -

These guys don't know what they are doing... f***.

3 years a MOD... 7 months a standalone Alpha... And now they want to change restart on a new engine?... Jesus guys seriously. As many hours as I have put into Day Z I can safely say I got my moneys worth that being said these guys are a joke and people need to stop posting about Day Z and defending the "developers".

These guys really... Really don't know how to make a game.

This will be the Duke Nukem of early access.

#30 Posted by cyloninside (429 posts) -

These guys don't know what they are doing... f***.

3 years a MOD... 7 months a standalone Alpha... And now they want to change restart on a new engine?... Jesus guys seriously. As many hours as I have put into Day Z I can safely say I got my moneys worth that being said these guys are a joke and people need to stop posting about Day Z and defending the "developers".

These guys really... Really don't know how to make a game.

This will be the Duke Nukem of early access.

the standalone has been in development for 2 years now.

#31 Edited by Grey_Eyed_Elf (3676 posts) -

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

These guys don't know what they are doing... f***.

3 years a MOD... 7 months a standalone Alpha... And now they want to change restart on a new engine?... Jesus guys seriously. As many hours as I have put into Day Z I can safely say I got my moneys worth that being said these guys are a joke and people need to stop posting about Day Z and defending the "developers".

These guys really... Really don't know how to make a game.

This will be the Duke Nukem of early access.

the standalone has been in development for 2 years now.

I know... I am only counting release periods.

By now they should have a product a couple of months away from completion. 5-6 years of working on Day Z and that buggy broken Alpha is all they have to show for it... And now they are going to do the one thing veteran developers stay clear away from i.e. completely revamping the engine mid way through making the game, f***ing dumb move and this game will not see a release date until 2016 at the very least... and even then it will still be a joke simply because they obviously lack focus and any form of a plan, with out those two things games will end up being cluster f***s of broken rubbish.

Since the game has been in Alpha I have yet to see one patch that fixed performs drastically or fixed the major bugs... I am sorry but what did you do with 2 years of development for a zombie game if the zombies can go through walls?... Oh you added some new back packs?... Yeah like I said they don't know how to make a game, all they do is create content, they cannot code to save their lives.

#32 Edited by cyloninside (429 posts) -

@cyloninside said:

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

These guys don't know what they are doing... f***.

3 years a MOD... 7 months a standalone Alpha... And now they want to change restart on a new engine?... Jesus guys seriously. As many hours as I have put into Day Z I can safely say I got my moneys worth that being said these guys are a joke and people need to stop posting about Day Z and defending the "developers".

These guys really... Really don't know how to make a game.

This will be the Duke Nukem of early access.

the standalone has been in development for 2 years now.

I know... I am only counting release periods.

By now they should have a product a couple of months away from completion. 5-6 years of working on Day Z and that buggy broken Alpha is all they have to show for it... And now they are going to do the one thing veteran developers stay clear away from i.e. completely revamping the engine mid way through making the game, f***ing dumb move and this game will not see a release date until 2016 at the very least... and even then it will still be a joke simply because they obviously lack focus and any form of a plan, with out those two things games will end up being cluster f***s of broken rubbish.

Since the game has been in Alpha I have yet to see one patch that fixed performs drastically or fixed the major bugs... I am sorry but what did you do with 2 years of development for a zombie game if the zombies can go through walls?... Oh you added some new back packs?... Yeah like I said they don't know how to make a game, all they do is create content, they cannot code to save their lives.

the majority of the people working on the game are amateurs and people learning how to make games. rocket said this himself, that most of the people on his team were not "professionals".

hell, in one of the dev diaries you meet one of the programmers and rocket says that he is just some guy that lived down the street from him that knew a little about programming... so he hired him. wtf?

#33 Edited by KHAndAnime (13275 posts) -

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

I know... I am only counting release periods.

By now they should have a product a couple of months away from completion. 5-6 years of working on Day Z and that buggy broken Alpha is all they have to show for it... And now they are going to do the one thing veteran developers stay clear away from i.e. completely revamping the engine mid way through making the game, f***ing dumb move and this game will not see a release date until 2016 at the very least... and even then it will still be a joke simply because they obviously lack focus and any form of a plan, with out those two things games will end up being cluster f***s of broken rubbish.

Since the game has been in Alpha I have yet to see one patch that fixed performs drastically or fixed the major bugs... I am sorry but what did you do with 2 years of development for a zombie game if the zombies can go through walls?... Oh you added some new back packs?... Yeah like I said they don't know how to make a game, all they do is create content, they cannot code to save their lives.

See, here's your problem - you don't understand the first thing about game development. You have no right to get all whiny when you don't even understand how game development works.

Example A: you hold the delusion that when they were making a mod, that they were also trying to develop a full game. The reality is very little what they used for the mod ended up in SA. Nearly every asset has been reworked and every aspect of the game, even including the goals of gameplay, have changed.

Example B: you don't understand the difference between stages of videogame development. DayZ is in alpha stage. Alpha stage is the stage when features are being added. This is not the stage where they target bugs or optimize the game, if anything, this is the stage where they will be introducing more bugs and introducing more optimization issues. Expecting major bug fixes and optimization at this point in time just reveals how little you understand about the game development process.

DayZ hasn't even been in standalone development for two years yet, meaning that it's been less than two years that DayZ has even been planned to become a full game. Most games of this scale in the past offered absolutely nothing playable or testable at this point in time, so DayZ is ahead of the curve. Simmer down and learn to count time before you start whining incessantly, some games take much longer to develop than a couple years. If you're going to complain, at least learn a little about game development, so you can at least spout complaints with more substance to them.

Please people, tone down the ignorance a little - we're on the internet, feel free to read and educate yourself, so you don't have to bring yourself down to sounding like a whiny 12 year old who knows nothing about the world around him.

#34 Edited by harry_james_pot (10296 posts) -

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

I know... I am only counting release periods.

By now they should have a product a couple of months away from completion. 5-6 years of working on Day Z and that buggy broken Alpha is all they have to show for it... And now they are going to do the one thing veteran developers stay clear away from i.e. completely revamping the engine mid way through making the game, f***ing dumb move and this game will not see a release date until 2016 at the very least... and even then it will still be a joke simply because they obviously lack focus and any form of a plan, with out those two things games will end up being cluster f***s of broken rubbish.

Since the game has been in Alpha I have yet to see one patch that fixed performs drastically or fixed the major bugs... I am sorry but what did you do with 2 years of development for a zombie game if the zombies can go through walls?... Oh you added some new back packs?... Yeah like I said they don't know how to make a game, all they do is create content, they cannot code to save their lives.

See, here's your problem - you don't understand the first thing about game development. You have no right to get all whiny when you don't even understand how game development works.

Example A: you hold the delusion that when they were making a mod, that they were also trying to develop a full game. The reality is very little what they used for the mod ended up in SA. Nearly every asset has been reworked and every aspect of the game, even including the goals of gameplay, have changed.

Example B: you don't understand the difference between stages of videogame development. DayZ is in alpha stage. Alpha stage is the stage when features are being added. This is not the stage where they target bugs or optimize the game, if anything, this is the stage where they will be introducing more bugs and introducing more optimization issues. Expecting major bug fixes and optimization at this point in time just reveals how little you understand about the game development process.

DayZ hasn't even been in standalone development for two years yet, meaning that it's been less than two years that DayZ has even been planned to become a full game. Most games of this scale in the past offered absolutely nothing playable or testable at this point in time, so DayZ is ahead of the curve. Simmer down and learn to count time before you start whining incessantly, some games take much longer to develop than a couple years. If you're going to complain, at least learn a little about game development, so you can at least spout complaints with more substance to them.

Please people, tone down the ignorance a little - we're on the internet, feel free to read and educate yourself, so you don't have to bring yourself down to sounding like a whiny 12 year old who knows nothing about the world around him.

Well said.

#35 Edited by Grey_Eyed_Elf (3676 posts) -

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

I know... I am only counting release periods.

By now they should have a product a couple of months away from completion. 5-6 years of working on Day Z and that buggy broken Alpha is all they have to show for it... And now they are going to do the one thing veteran developers stay clear away from i.e. completely revamping the engine mid way through making the game, f***ing dumb move and this game will not see a release date until 2016 at the very least... and even then it will still be a joke simply because they obviously lack focus and any form of a plan, with out those two things games will end up being cluster f***s of broken rubbish.

Since the game has been in Alpha I have yet to see one patch that fixed performs drastically or fixed the major bugs... I am sorry but what did you do with 2 years of development for a zombie game if the zombies can go through walls?... Oh you added some new back packs?... Yeah like I said they don't know how to make a game, all they do is create content, they cannot code to save their lives.

See, here's your problem - you don't understand the first thing about game development. You have no right to get all whiny when you don't even understand how game development works.

Example A: you hold the delusion that when they were making a mod, that they were also trying to develop a full game. The reality is very little what they used for the mod ended up in SA. Nearly every asset has been reworked and every aspect of the game, even including the goals of gameplay, have changed.

Example B: you don't understand the difference between stages of videogame development. DayZ is in alpha stage. Alpha stage is the stage when features are being added. This is not the stage where they target bugs or optimize the game, if anything, this is the stage where they will be introducing more bugs and introducing more optimization issues. Expecting major bug fixes and optimization at this point in time just reveals how little you understand about the game development process.

DayZ hasn't even been in standalone development for two years yet, meaning that it's been less than two years that DayZ has even been planned to become a full game. Most games of this scale in the past offered absolutely nothing playable or testable at this point in time, so DayZ is ahead of the curve. Simmer down and learn to count time before you start whining incessantly, some games take much longer to develop than a couple years. If you're going to complain, at least learn a little about game development, so you can at least spout complaints with more substance to them.

Please people, tone down the ignorance a little - we're on the internet, feel free to read and educate yourself, so you don't have to bring yourself down to sounding like a whiny 12 year old who knows nothing about the world around him.

You throw out words like ignorance and delusion yet you blindly assume that you know the in's and outs of this particular development groups choices... Standards aren't universal and neither are development cycles, and that's my point to the T, the people behind Day Z as mentioned by Dean Hall and including Dean him self are not proven developers and that's why I post what I post because I find it irritating that people like you come on and defend there decisions and hold it up as if they are decision's and cycles of which a developer who has made a game would go through.

  1. I am not arguing how long it takes games to be developed - Simply pointing out the sheer amount of time its taking them and will take them to go from a state of game to another
  2. Average game development time varies and you have CHOSEN a length that suits your agenda and that agenda is quiet clear... This isn't the first Day Z defence brigade I have come across from you
  3. They are amateurs you are only deluding your self if you are basing their development around a group of individuals who have or can develop a game to a degree most would consider AA quality

I may be tired of Day Z and sheer lack of information these early access games are divulging when it comes to a development plan but simultaneously want you to supply them money while they develop said game. I think its quiet obvious that the people who buy into to the majority of the early access games are the ignorant and these "developers" are feeding off of your ignorance.

A amateur group of modders decide to make a game... They offer nothing but bad moves from the get go, to the point where the lead tried to run away from his responsibilities and where the platform they are on has changed the "buyer beware" information for early access to read "These games may never be completed", and you are still under the assumption that these "developers" can and or have the ability to follow through their promise of a complete game?...

Ignorant?... I don't think you know the meaning of the word. Delusional?... Clearly if you are under the assumption that the developers behind Day Z are developers at all.

#36 Posted by Klunt_Bumskrint (3501 posts) -

@KHAndAnime said:

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

I know... I am only counting release periods.

By now they should have a product a couple of months away from completion. 5-6 years of working on Day Z and that buggy broken Alpha is all they have to show for it... And now they are going to do the one thing veteran developers stay clear away from i.e. completely revamping the engine mid way through making the game, f***ing dumb move and this game will not see a release date until 2016 at the very least... and even then it will still be a joke simply because they obviously lack focus and any form of a plan, with out those two things games will end up being cluster f***s of broken rubbish.

Since the game has been in Alpha I have yet to see one patch that fixed performs drastically or fixed the major bugs... I am sorry but what did you do with 2 years of development for a zombie game if the zombies can go through walls?... Oh you added some new back packs?... Yeah like I said they don't know how to make a game, all they do is create content, they cannot code to save their lives.

See, here's your problem - you don't understand the first thing about game development. You have no right to get all whiny when you don't even understand how game development works.

Example A: you hold the delusion that when they were making a mod, that they were also trying to develop a full game. The reality is very little what they used for the mod ended up in SA. Nearly every asset has been reworked and every aspect of the game, even including the goals of gameplay, have changed.

Example B: you don't understand the difference between stages of videogame development. DayZ is in alpha stage. Alpha stage is the stage when features are being added. This is not the stage where they target bugs or optimize the game, if anything, this is the stage where they will be introducing more bugs and introducing more optimization issues. Expecting major bug fixes and optimization at this point in time just reveals how little you understand about the game development process.

DayZ hasn't even been in standalone development for two years yet, meaning that it's been less than two years that DayZ has even been planned to become a full game. Most games of this scale in the past offered absolutely nothing playable or testable at this point in time, so DayZ is ahead of the curve. Simmer down and learn to count time before you start whining incessantly, some games take much longer to develop than a couple years. If you're going to complain, at least learn a little about game development, so you can at least spout complaints with more substance to them.

Please people, tone down the ignorance a little - we're on the internet, feel free to read and educate yourself, so you don't have to bring yourself down to sounding like a whiny 12 year old who knows nothing about the world around him.

Well said.

Yep.

Also remember it wasn't that long ago before Early Access was an option that all these gripes you are complaining of Mr @Grey_Eyed_Elf would not of been seen, as it would of carried on being developed behind closed doors.

#37 Edited by KHAndAnime (13275 posts) -

@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

You throw out words like ignorance and delusion yet you blindly assume that you know the in's and outs of this particular development groups choices... Standards aren't universal and neither are development cycles, and that's my point to the T, the people behind Day Z as mentioned by Dean Hall and including Dean him self are not proven developers and that's why I post what I post because I find it irritating that people like you come on and defend there decisions and hold it up as if they are decision's and cycles of which a developer who has made a game would go through.

  1. I am not arguing how long it takes games to be developed - Simply pointing out the sheer amount of time its taking them and will take them to go from a state of game to another
  2. Average game development time varies and you have CHOSEN a length that suits your agenda and that agenda is quiet clear... This isn't the first Day Z defence brigade I have come across from you
  3. They are amateurs you are only deluding your self if you are basing their development around a group of individuals who have or can develop a game to a degree most would consider AA quality

I may be tired of Day Z and sheer lack of information these early access games are divulging when it comes to a development plan but simultaneously want you to supply them money while they develop said game. I think its quiet obvious that the people who buy into to the majority of the early access games are the ignorant and these "developers" are feeding off of your ignorance.

A amateur group of modders decide to make a game... They offer nothing but bad moves from the get go, to the point where the lead tried to run away from his responsibilities and where the platform they are on has changed the "buyer beware" information for early access to read "These games may never be completed", and you are still under the assumption that these "developers" can and or have the ability to follow through their promise of a complete game?...

Ignorant?... I don't think you know the meaning of the word. Delusional?... Clearly if you are under the assumption that the developers behind Day Z are developers at all.

Standards aren't universal and neither are development cycles, and that's my point to the T,

Holy shit, no offense, but are you stupid? You've spent all your time in this thread comparing DayZ to the development of other games. If you understood the very point you're trying so hard to make, you wouldn't try so hard to compare DayZ to the development of games that weren't developed similarly.

Let's start from the top.

By now they should have a product a couple of months away from completion. 5-6 years of working on Day Z and that buggy broken Alpha is all they have to show for it...

Here you are, comparing DayZ to other development cycles. If you understand that standards aren't universal and neither are development cycles, why hold DayZ to the same standards and development cycles as other games? Then you further contradict yourself

  1. I am not arguing how long it takes games to be developed - Simply pointing out the sheer amount of time its taking them and will take them to go from a state of game to another

If you're not arguing about how long it should take to be developed, then why are you arguing that by now they should have a product a couple months away from completion? Either the game is being too slowly developed or the game's development isn't comparable to other games, you can't pick BOTH stances.

  1. Average game development time varies and you have CHOSEN a length that suits your agenda and that agenda is quiet clear... This isn't the first Day Z defence brigade I have come across from you

I have no agenda, my only "agenda" is to squash ignorance being spouted. People with the agenda are people who have to lie who spread misinformation to make the points they're trying to make - that obviously isn't me in this scenario. I'm not the one constantly contradicting myself with a couple of posts of each other.

  1. They are amateurs you are only deluding your self if you are basing their development around a group of individuals who have or can develop a game to a degree most would consider AA quality

Who cares if they're amateurs? Game developers have to start somewhere, and there's no better place than to start working alongside the professionals of BI, who have successfully finished some of the best games of their genre. Valve also hires amateurs to integrate with their development teams. This is common in PC game development.

I may be tired of Day Z and sheer lack of information these early access games are divulging when it comes to a development plan

Here you go, lying again. There isn't a sheer lack of information. Just about every early access project outlines their development goals and plans extensively. Their time frame, goals, priorities, current tasks, upcoming patches, etc. have been discussed heavily and are always constantly being discussed. Early Access developers are the most transparent developers out there. By providing transparency, they gain more backers. Do you think DayZ would have 2 million sales if there wasn't any plan or divulged development information? Come on dude. Read a little, we're on the internet. Information is free for all here.

A amateur group of modders decide to make a game... They offer nothing but bad moves from the get go, to the point where the lead tried to run away from his responsibilities and where the platform they are on has changed the "buyer beware" information for early access to read "These games may never be completed", and you are still under the assumption that these "developers" can and or have the ability to follow through their promise of a complete game?...

What? Nothing what you described connects to DayZ. Modders made a successful mod for ArmA 2 and BI wanted to turn it into a game. The lead blatantly said he's sticking with the project until it's out of alpha, and that's understandable considering that he has more ambitions than just working on DayZ - a game's creator is in no way pivotal to bug-fixing and optimization. Rocket more or less decides the direction of the game, and once it's out of alpha, there's no more direction to be brought to the game.