Dark Souls low level pvp Mess: Earnest words to starting and potential DS gamers

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#1 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

this post is for those who just start or are interested in getting the game.

when the game was just released, some people here mentioned the inevitable broken online experience of the game, I had no idea what that was since I only game on PC.

now, the game was out for a while and I've been through the game several times...the pvp system is indeed broken; not completely, but it's truely a mess at early stage of the game.

put the matter simply: in human form, you'll be "invaded" by other players at any given time, and many of the invaders you meet when low level (below lvl 20), are DS veterans with high level gears and spells, and some are hackers who modify their characters with trainers.

legit low level pvp matches are few and far between: most true beginners of the game, at such low levels, would most likely be struggling to survive rather than having the pvp system all figured out. this early pvp mess would seriously hinder your progressing through the core game.

[spoiler] my newly created character got firestormed in unded burg on the way to Taurus Demon; got treated with Pursuers in parish @SL17 [/spoiler]

if you want the challenge not only from the core game, but also veterans and hackers, ignore me.

I honestly think that the very first playthrough of the game should be SP only, at least until the first 2-part objective is accomplished.

few advices

1. play offline mode: once you activate the game through gfwl, you can create a local profile and play the game offline.

2. stay hollow (don't turn human) most of the time early in the game.

3. when invaded, press Alt & F4 keys togther; this will get you out of the game. just load the game, you can contiune on.

Dark soul is my favorite non-party base Dungeon Crawler, but the state of its low level pvp is just pathetic~

#2 Posted by megam (457 posts) -
You're absolutely right; Undead Parish is a complete nightmare for new players. What's worse is the fact the gargoyle boss fight can be quite daunting without a human summon to help you out. To be honest, it would have taken me many more tries without my brother helping me out the first time. My recommendation is play offline mode in human form to clear the enemies to the boss, and then log into the online portion and quickly summon someone (usually at the area leading to the smith/bonfire with three skeletons). Once summoned, run for the fog gate. You should be able to make it. I imagine you'd even have time to summon Solaire. Another trick (if you don't want to Alt-F4 out and risk a corrupted save) is to equip homeward bones. When they go grey or fog gates go up preventing you from leaving the area, you're being invaded. Luckily, you still have a few seconds to go to the start menu and quit the game. This keeps you from having to wait for Steam to realize you've quit the game. Edit: Corrected location.
#3 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

You're absolutely right; Undead Parish is a complete nightmare for new players. megam

indeed! it wasn't like that when the game just came out. it's really a shame that from now on, new gamers will never be able to experience the game as fresh as I did back then~

#4 Posted by gamebreakerz__ (5120 posts) -
You're not really experiencing the game properly if you're just summoning people half the time to beat the hard parts, I played my entire first playthrough by myself. The PvP is less than Ideal, lag is an issue and hackers as well.
#5 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

You're not really experiencing the game properly if you're just summoning people half the time to beat the hard parts, I played my entire first playthrough by myself. The PvP is less than Ideal, lag is an issue and hackers as well.gamebreakerz__

guess people most likely would define what's being "properly" differently.

My stand is always that the first playthrough should be played as SP, without MP interfering.

though it's odd to talk about "properness" regarding Dark Souls since as of right now people play the game literally in any which way they want, including ways that are not in the game design (hackers way).

#6 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38204 posts) -

[QUOTE="megam"]You're absolutely right; Undead Parish is a complete nightmare for new players. teardropmina

indeed! it wasn't like that when the game just came out. it's really a shame that from now on, new gamers will never be able to experience the game as fresh as I did back then~

I played the PC version non stop when it releases just so I could go through it solo for the first time and not worry about invasions or hackers or any of that stuff. Im sure by now the game is riddled with them

#7 Posted by gamebreakerz__ (5120 posts) -

[QUOTE="gamebreakerz__"]You're not really experiencing the game properly if you're just summoning people half the time to beat the hard parts, I played my entire first playthrough by myself. The PvP is less than Ideal, lag is an issue and hackers as well.teardropmina

guess people most likely would define what's being "properly" differently.

My stand is always that the first playthrough should be played as SP, without MP interfering.

though it's odd to talk about "properness" regarding Dark Souls since as of right now people play the game literally in any which way they want, including ways that are not in the game design (hackers way).

The game is just dead easy if you're constantly summoning friends. The best part of this game is the satisfaction of beating it due to the difficulty and you miss that when you let others do the work. At the moment I'm going to try and do a speed run. Not looking for the ridiculous 68 minutes which I think is the record, I think something around 3-4 hours is a good target.
#8 Posted by Mazoch (2408 posts) -
My approach is to stay hollow. If I need to revert to kindle bonfires or some such I do that and sometimes just suicide again afterwards in a place where it's easy to collect my dropped souls
#9 Posted by BrunoBRS (73259 posts) -
wow. Just... Wow. QQ whenever you're invaded? That's just sad. Hackers or not, it's not like you're getting invaded every second you're not hollow. And even then, you can easily go through most of the game hollow, which prevents invasions without losing the message system. Playing in offline mode kinda ruins what the game was made for, and QQing every time things go wrong is pathetic.
#10 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

My approach is to stay hollow. If I need to revert to kindle bonfires or some such I do that and sometimes just suicide again afterwards in a place where it's easy to collect my dropped soulsMazoch

this is nice approach, adding to the staying hollow variety.

#11 Posted by the_bi99man (11047 posts) -

Meh. I haven't played it online at all. Been offline mode from the beginning. It feels good to go solo, and being able to run around in human form without worrying about getting invaded (except by the occasional AI invader, and they're never very hard) is nice. Also, though, good advice on the Alt-F4 quit when invaded, if you're not up for it. The game autosaves constantly, so you'll start back up, pretty much right where you were.

#12 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

wow. Just... Wow. QQ whenever you're invaded? That's just sad. Hackers or not, it's not like you're getting invaded every second you're not hollow. And even then, you can easily go through most of the game hollow, which prevents invasions without losing the message system. Playing in offline mode kinda ruins what the game was made for, and QQing every time things go wrong is pathetic.BrunoBRS

I don't believe this is ever mentioned. alt-f4 not whenever things go wrong, but when things go wrong due to other people's pathetic interfering.

you won't be invaded every second but it does happen and more and more fequently in low SL areas.

when the game allows people to wear Golem armor and cast Chaos Storm in low level pvp, I don't see how it's inappropriate or pathetic for new gamers to deny such bullying and harassment in any way possible.

as for the message system, it's getting old quickly, especially all those "praise the sun" ones lying around~ messages about secret locations are really helpful, but I like them more after first solo playthrough: lead me to what I miss the first time.

#13 Posted by BrunoBRS (73259 posts) -

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]wow. Just... Wow. QQ whenever you're invaded? That's just sad. Hackers or not, it's not like you're getting invaded every second you're not hollow. And even then, you can easily go through most of the game hollow, which prevents invasions without losing the message system. Playing in offline mode kinda ruins what the game was made for, and QQing every time things go wrong is pathetic.teardropmina

I don't believe this is ever mentioned. alt-f4 not whenever things go wrong, but when things go wrong due to other people's pathetic interfering.

you won't be invaded every second but it does happen and more and more fequently in low SL areas.

when the game allows people to wear Golem armor and cast Chaos Storm on low SL players, I don't see how it's inappropriate or pathetic for new gamers to deny such bullying and harassment in any way possible.

as for the message system, it's getting old quickly, especially all those "praise the sun" ones lying around~ messages about secret locations are really helpful, but I like them more after first solo playthrough: lead me to what I miss the first time.

first it's to avoid hackers, then it's to avoid any invasions, then whenever you die you'll do it because when you turn the game back on you'll be at the spot you died. it escalates pretty quickly. i played on the PS3, but there were just as many people walking around with +10 lightning weapons and high level armor there as there are on the PC version. was it annoying when i got invaded and killed with no chance of fighting back? yes, but instead of whining about it, i moved on, grabbed my souls and went back to whatever it was i was doing.
#14 Posted by the_bi99man (11047 posts) -

[QUOTE="teardropmina"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]wow. Just... Wow. QQ whenever you're invaded? That's just sad. Hackers or not, it's not like you're getting invaded every second you're not hollow. And even then, you can easily go through most of the game hollow, which prevents invasions without losing the message system. Playing in offline mode kinda ruins what the game was made for, and QQing every time things go wrong is pathetic.BrunoBRS

I don't believe this is ever mentioned. alt-f4 not whenever things go wrong, but when things go wrong due to other people's pathetic interfering.

you won't be invaded every second but it does happen and more and more fequently in low SL areas.

when the game allows people to wear Golem armor and cast Chaos Storm on low SL players, I don't see how it's inappropriate or pathetic for new gamers to deny such bullying and harassment in any way possible.

as for the message system, it's getting old quickly, especially all those "praise the sun" ones lying around~ messages about secret locations are really helpful, but I like them more after first solo playthrough: lead me to what I miss the first time.

first it's to avoid hackers, then it's to avoid any invasions, then whenever you die you'll do it because when you turn the game back on you'll be at the spot you died. it escalates pretty quickly.

You're acting like people don't have self control. If someone chooses to QQ out of the game to avoid getting killed by an overpowered invader, that doesn't mean they're going to start doing it every time they die, to get back to the spot. It's called self control. People use it, so that they can do things in moderation, without abusing them.

#15 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

[QUOTE="teardropmina"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]wow. Just... Wow. QQ whenever you're invaded? That's just sad. Hackers or not, it's not like you're getting invaded every second you're not hollow. And even then, you can easily go through most of the game hollow, which prevents invasions without losing the message system. Playing in offline mode kinda ruins what the game was made for, and QQing every time things go wrong is pathetic.BrunoBRS

I don't believe this is ever mentioned. alt-f4 not whenever things go wrong, but when things go wrong due to other people's pathetic interfering.

you won't be invaded every second but it does happen and more and more fequently in low SL areas.

when the game allows people to wear Golem armor and cast Chaos Storm on low SL players, I don't see how it's inappropriate or pathetic for new gamers to deny such bullying and harassment in any way possible.

as for the message system, it's getting old quickly, especially all those "praise the sun" ones lying around~ messages about secret locations are really helpful, but I like them more after first solo playthrough: lead me to what I miss the first time.

first it's to avoid hackers, then it's to avoid any invasions, then whenever you die you'll do it because when you turn the game back on you'll be at the spot you died. it escalates pretty quickly. i played on the PS3, but there were just as many people walking around with +10 lightning weapons and high level armor there as there are on the PC version. was it annoying when i got invaded and killed with no chance of fighting back? yes, but instead of whining about it, i moved on, grabbed my souls and went back to whatever it was i was doing.

you presume such and so much...that's fine, our "whining" and ways of dealing with messy low level pvp is pathetic to you. got it.

ADD:

and oh yeah, I don't just "whine," I offer new gamers some practical ways to deal with the mess. and I did make it clearly in my first post, any new gamer who takes challenge of all sorts from the game should ignore me.



#16 Posted by SPYDER0416 (16736 posts) -

Only wusses play offline, I prefer to stay online and reap the rewards of a successful invader getting ganked by me. Plus the messages and allies are far too helpful to ignore, secret areas might go unfound otherwise.

#17 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

[QUOTE="teardropmina"]

[QUOTE="megam"]You're absolutely right; Undead Parish is a complete nightmare for new players. seanmcloughlin

indeed! it wasn't like that when the game just came out. it's really a shame that from now on, new gamers will never be able to experience the game as fresh as I did back then~

I played the PC version non stop when it releases just so I could go through it solo for the first time and not worry about invasions or hackers or any of that stuff. Im sure by now the game is riddled with them

I played the game non-stop by release as well because it was really fun! I had no idea later on the online portion of the game can become this broken in low level areas~~"

#18 Posted by x-2tha-z (8896 posts) -
It really isn't that big of a deal. It happened to us all when we first started playing. I still get killed by invaders now and I've been playing this and Demon's Souls for almost three years now. It's all part of the experience and playing offline would remove some of the best and most exciting features of the game.
#19 Posted by KHAndAnime (13279 posts) -
I already mentioned this a bunch of times. Yes, it's true that there are twinked-out gankers that have nothing better to do than screw with people on the consoles, but at least you don't have to deal with modified characters or hackers. PS3 version is the way to go IMO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup :D
#20 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

I already mentioned this a bunch of times. Yes, it's true that there are twinked-out gankers that have nothing better to do than screw with people on the consoles, but at least you don't have to deal with modified characters or hackers. PS3 version is the way to go IMO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup :DKHAndAnime

I'll take 3d surround over any big screen TV, and I do play with surround sound (transfer any sound as DTS output).

for me the biggest flaw of the game is the pvp system, and PC version is the worst due to the addition of hackers.

#21 Posted by SPYDER0416 (16736 posts) -

I already mentioned this a bunch of times. Yes, it's true that there are twinked-out gankers that have nothing better to do than screw with people on the consoles, but at least you don't have to deal with modified characters or hackers. PS3 version is the way to go IMO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup :DKHAndAnime

I have to say though, even though I'm glad I don't have to face hackers or network issues on my PS3 version, it does suck that they changed it from server based in Demon's Souls to what it is now. Too many cases of lag, failed connections or getting backstabbed when I shouldn't have been basktabbed occur now when they didn't in Demon's Souls.

#22 Posted by KHAndAnime (13279 posts) -

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]I already mentioned this a bunch of times. Yes, it's true that there are twinked-out gankers that have nothing better to do than screw with people on the consoles, but at least you don't have to deal with modified characters or hackers. PS3 version is the way to go IMO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup :DSPYDER0416

I have to say though, even though I'm glad I don't have to face hackers or network issues on my PS3 version, it does suck that they changed it from server based in Demon's Souls to what it is now. Too many cases of lag, failed connections or getting backstabbed when I shouldn't have been basktabbed occur now when they didn't in Demon's Souls.

When I first beat Demon Souls, I only had a couple of invaders and I saw only a handful of soul summon signs. I had a significant amount more of player interaction in Dark Souls but the rate of success when it came to the summoning was a lot lower. But still, I've managed to consistently meet up with friends and other players.
#23 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -
My personal favorite is when a low level with Havels armor invaded me no less right past the drake on the bridge....
#24 Posted by the_bi99man (11047 posts) -

PS3 version is the way to go IMO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup :DKHAndAnime

I'll take my PC version with real 1080p, no blurryness, enhanced lighting, AA and some mild SSAO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup.:P

#25 Posted by KHAndAnime (13279 posts) -

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]PS3 version is the way to go IMO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup :Dthe_bi99man

I'll take my PC version with real 1080p, no blurryness, enhanced lighting, AA and some mild SSAO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup.:P

I'll pass on the emulated surround, thanks. I'll also pass on the "enhanced lighting", modded SSAO, hackers, 30-fps, and unprotected online component. At 10+ft away from my 50" screen, there's no noticeable jaggies or blurriness. The textures are even slightly less offensive at that distance. ;)
#26 Posted by the_bi99man (11047 posts) -

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]PS3 version is the way to go IMO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup :DKHAndAnime

I'll take my PC version with real 1080p, no blurryness, enhanced lighting, AA and some mild SSAO. On a nice big TV with a surround setup.:P

I'll pass on the emulated surround, thanks. I'll also pass on the "enhanced lighting", modded SSAO, hackers, 30-fps, and unprotected online component.

Does the PS3 version run at more than 30 fps? Also, emulated surround? As for the hackers an unprotected online, whatever. I play offline. I like my dungeon crawlers lonely, and full of dread.:P

#27 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

My personal favorite is when a low level with Havels armor invaded me no less right past the drake on the bridge.... sSubZerOo

yeah, another popular spot: right where and when the new players try to figure out how to pass the bridge or deal with an armor boar + bunch of hollow soldiers~~"

#28 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]My personal favorite is when a low level with Havels armor invaded me no less right past the drake on the bridge.... teardropmina

yeah, another popular spot: right where and when the new players try to figure out how to pass the bridge or deal with an armor boar + bunch of hollow soldiers~~"

I am not sure what to think of that.. The guy got significantly far in the game to get Havel's armor.... Just to troll low levels early on in the game..
#29 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

[QUOTE="teardropmina"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]My personal favorite is when a low level with Havels armor invaded me no less right past the drake on the bridge.... sSubZerOo

yeah, another popular spot: right where and when the new players try to figure out how to pass the bridge or deal with an armor boar + bunch of hollow soldiers~~"

I am not sure what to think of that.. The guy got significantly far in the game to get Havel's armor.... Just to troll low levels early on in the game..

that is the problem with the pvp system: the game actually allows this to happen. even without hacking the game, people can and actually do go deep into the game staying at low levels, and they come back to starting areas just to bully and harass new gamers and freshly created characters.

most, if not all, of these invaders are tougher than area bosses; if this kind of pvp is part of the whole "point" of the game, I'd say the SP portion (core game progress) of the game is virtually pointless.

#30 Posted by kidcool189 (4307 posts) -

It's hard work clearing through as much of the game necessary to become a darkwraith at such a low level. Being able to go back and beat up on the players with early gear is their payday :twisted:.

It's really not that big of an issue though, and is only common in burg/parish. And a chunk of the people doing it will eventually feel guilty and occasionally drop hosts a nice piece of gear or some kind of titanites.

#31 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

It's hard work clearing through as much of the game necessary to become a darkwraith at such a low level. Being able to go back and beat up on the players with early gear is their payday :twisted:.

kidcool189

well, guess everyone is entitled to do whatever they want as long as they do it legitimately?

by the same token, new gamers are entitled to avoid invaders in any which way they want as long as the game allows them to:)

#32 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

[QUOTE="kidcool189"]

It's hard work clearing through as much of the game necessary to become a darkwraith at such a low level. Being able to go back and beat up on the players with early gear is their payday :twisted:.

teardropmina

well, guess everyone is entitled to do whatever they want as long as they do it legitimately?

by the same token, new gamers are entitled to avoid invaders in any which way they want as long as the game allows them to:)

... Well they can just stay hallowed honestly.. The only time its worth going human outside of kindlign fires that early one is for ringing the first bell because you can summon npc knight to help you.
#33 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

[QUOTE="teardropmina"]

[QUOTE="kidcool189"]

It's hard work clearing through as much of the game necessary to become a darkwraith at such a low level. Being able to go back and beat up on the players with early gear is their payday :twisted:.

sSubZerOo

well, guess everyone is entitled to do whatever they want as long as they do it legitimately?

by the same token, new gamers are entitled to avoid invaders in any which way they want as long as the game allows them to:)

... Well they can just stay hallowed honestly.. The only time its worth going human outside of kindlign fires that early one is for ringing the first bell because you can summon npc knight to help you.

also kindle the bonfire to give more flasks.

stay hollow is among my advices yes.

#34 Posted by Basinboy (10976 posts) -

Eh, it happens. Just stay hollow and you don't have to worry about it. Only reverse when you need to kindle bonfires and then immediately jump off a cliff to return to hollow or something. After you have beat the game once or twice, you tend to get bored playing alone and that's when PvP really gets addicting. Today I had two invasions in Anor Londo and another in Sen's. I slayed em all of course:cool: but then again I have Elite Knight Armor +10 and SL 160. :P

#35 Posted by Travis_Odell (1701 posts) -
I love me some Dark Souls but all the grinding i don't have time for. So i got a trainer and use infinite stamina and it's made the game perfect. I don't like getting my **** knocked in the dirt so sometimes i step it up to health also, and if it's still giving me trouble i quit the game and watch a walkthrough. My gaming life is going to hell in a handbasket real fast. Got to get tha moneys i'm a thug.
#36 Posted by SAGE_OF_FIRE (15587 posts) -
There is nothing wrong with low level invading.
#37 Posted by x-2tha-z (8896 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="teardropmina"]

yeah, another popular spot: right where and when the new players try to figure out how to pass the bridge or deal with an armor boar + bunch of hollow soldiers~~"

teardropmina

I am not sure what to think of that.. The guy got significantly far in the game to get Havel's armor.... Just to troll low levels early on in the game..

that is the problem with the pvp system: the game actually allows this to happen. even without hacking the game, people can and actually do go deep into the game staying at low levels, and they come back to starting areas just to bully and harass new gamers and freshly created characters.

most, if not all, of these invaders are tougher than area bosses; if this kind of pvp is part of the whole "point" of the game, I'd say the SP portion (core game progress) of the game is virtually pointless.

I like the fact that you can get invaded be someone with high-level gear. Usually people go human so they can summon two people and and obliterate the boss. The invader might be in a position to stop this from happening. It all kinda balances out because even an invader with high level gear would struggle against three other people. Your two summons could have better gear than the invader! I really don't see the problem.
#38 Posted by bonafidetk (3812 posts) -
I dont mind the low leveling invading. Its just the fact that there are so many hackers with infinite health. It just makes the whole invasion thing pointless. Most of the time the hackers absolutely suck balls at the game, which is unsurprising, since they cheated their way through it.
#39 Posted by teardropmina (2806 posts) -

I dont mind the low leveling invading. Its just the fact that there are so many hackers with infinite health. It just makes the whole invasion thing pointless. Most of the time the hackers absolutely suck balls at the game, which is unsurprising, since they cheated their way through it.bonafidetk

hackers are everywhere in the game no doubt. I once reaped 4000+ HP out of a guy and he just kept going~~"

however, I only care about the invasion in early, low level areas, specifically for true new players (those who already played the game on consoles don't count).

when you get deep into the game, on NG+..., or have multiple runthroughs, you already know the game and oftentime inside and outside. invasion is just something you can deal with naturally. but not the case for new players.