7 Dragon Saga Kickstarter is up

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Maroxad

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#1  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23876 Posts

The developers of 7 Dragon Saga have put up the kickstarter for their game. The guys behind this game are Tactical Simulations Interactive and are the rebirth of SSI, the guys behind the brilliant Pool of Radiance and other excellent gold box RPGs like Dark Sun: Shattered Lands.

Loading Video...
  • Featuring turn based combat
  • 6 man parties
  • FULL PARTY CREATION

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/537511454/seven-dragon-saga-by-tactical-simulations-interact

I am glad that more RPGs are embracing full party creation. After being flooded with RPGs that force you to use shitty story characters with predetermined personalities and backgrounds. I am pleased that more RPGs are going back to when things were better where players could create their entire party from scratch.

For that matter, yes, I will make sure to boot all story characters in my Pillars of Eternity party and replace them with characters created by me at the soonest opportunity as I can get.

I must say, I am also pleased about 6 man parties, not as good as 8 man parties, but good enough. Bigger parties allow for more complex encounters and combat scenarios and give more room for more gimmicky, but awesome classes like the bard.

Turn based combat is great too. And the only way to properly design a party based RPG without making too many sacrifices to the depth.

I am concerned about the general vagueness of the video. Which is a warning sign, but if the updates turn out good, this game might just be worth backing?

Are you guys interested in this game, are you gonna back it?

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#2 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Never heard of these guys. Unfortunately I heavily backed Crowfall this month, and then Con Man came out of no where, so I'll probably pass on this, unless there are some decent updates that convince me otherwise.

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deactivated-5ebea105efb64

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#3 deactivated-5ebea105efb64
Member since 2013 • 7262 Posts

Not impressed.

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Maroxad

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#4 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23876 Posts

@airshocker said:

Never heard of these guys. Unfortunately I heavily backed Crowfall this month, and then Con Man came out of no where, so I'll probably pass on this, unless there are some decent updates that convince me otherwise.

They were some of the best RPG developers in the past. This was however, quite some time before cRPGs became truly popular with Baldur's Gate. I too am waiting for a decent update to get more into detail. Currently, it seems a bit too vague. I am really hopeful for this game though, these guys delivered not one, but two of the greatest RPGs ever made: Pool of Radiance and Dark Sun: Shattered Lands.

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#5  Edited By Postosuchus
Member since 2005 • 907 Posts
@Maroxad said:

Pool of Radiance and Dark Sun: Shattered Lands.

I was about to make a comment about how much the goblin things reminded me of the slow-moving zombies of Pool of Radiance. I really hope they get the pacing issues sorted out in this game, cause full 6 party creation in a turn based game sounds awesome otherwise. Do you know if they're using an established ruleset? I couldn't see or hear mention in the video or text.

I must be blind. Still think I'll wait for more info in updates. We have 30 days after all.

  • PnP version of Seven Dragon Saga -- Our computer game is based off of a pencil-and-paper system designed by David Shelley and Keith Brors. You will receive one digital copy of these rules.
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#7 kaealy
Member since 2004 • 2179 Posts

I've backed a lot of RPG:s on kickstarter and see myself as a RPG-veteran, owning most old time RPG:s in their original big box.

Still, this looks awful.

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#8  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23876 Posts

@Postosuchus said:
@Maroxad said:

Pool of Radiance and Dark Sun: Shattered Lands.

I was about to make a comment about how much the goblin things reminded me of the slow-moving zombies of Pool of Radiance. I really hope they get the pacing issues sorted out in this game, cause full 6 party creation in a turn based game sounds awesome otherwise. Do you know if they're using an established ruleset? I couldn't see or hear mention in the video or text.

I must be blind. Still think I'll wait for more info in updates. We have 30 days after all.

  • PnP version of Seven Dragon Saga -- Our computer game is based off of a pencil-and-paper system designed by David Shelley and Keith Brors. You will receive one digital copy of these rules.

That sounds like a plan. I dunno if they are using an established ruleset just yet. I think they were a bit too vague. And my hope in this game comes primarily in the developer and his prestigious history and the fact that turn based rpgs with full party creation is something I want to see more of.

@geminontraveler said:

all old men trying to trade on the success they had in the atari era.....

run away as fast as you can people.

What they are doing is providing an opportunity for fans of old school RPGs to finally play good games again.

Stuff like Dragon Age: Inquisition, Skyrim and Mass Effect simply put... don't cut it. To put it nicely, they have taken a direction that falls way outside what we see as enjoyable.

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#9 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts

I wish these guys the best of luck. I couldn't imagine it being easy risking a bunch of time, money, and personal effort to make their passion-project come true.

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#11 Gladestone1
Member since 2004 • 5695 Posts

Ill have to wait and see more also..Glad a full party rpg are coming back like a poster said above me..Its been a long time coming..Im tired of just 4 player parties..Why people went away from this model is beyond my reasoning..I love a good full party. Fighter ranger, cleric, thief , mage, bard..Thats why im so looking forward to poe at the end of the month..Ill keep a eye out for this game..

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#12  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23876 Posts

@geminontraveler said:

their past success has absolutely nothing to do with their current capability to produce a good game in today's market.

I would put more hope in them delivering us a Gold Box esque experience, than a new inexperienced dev.

And that is the thing. I am hoping for a Gold Box esque game, back to a time before crap like Kotor came out.

There is no guarantee the game will be good. But so far it seems to be the best hope to see a revival of Gold Box games. We saw a revival of Real Time Blobbers with Legend of Grimrock, we saw Ultima 7's concepts be adapted and revived for a modern age with Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland had a sequel, early Wizardry games have been emulated to some degree by the likes of Etrian Odyssey and Elminage and the later Wizardries 6+7 will be attempted to be aped by Grimoire, Ultima Underworld will be succeeded by Underworld Ascendant, Might and Magic had a sequel and while it isnt exactly old school, the Infinity Engine titles will see a spiritual successor with Pillars of Eternity and PS:T will have Torment: Tides of Numenera. Now, with this game, it is the Gold Box's chance at having a spiritual successor, and it's about time.

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#13 Postosuchus
Member since 2005 • 907 Posts

So those such as myself who initially dismissed this due to the lackluster video and vagueness might want to give another look. They've released boatloads of new info in almost daily updates and it seems much more appealing now. A shame about the piss-poor excuse for a kickstart initial reveal though, since they've less than 1/4th of the needed money after almost a week.

A few selected quotes about character creation:

At its heart, SDS is a points based system with about 80 abilities each having ranks and costs. To create a character, players choose a Race, a Class and a Specialty. Each of these is a container of abilities, with each Class containing the same number of points as each other Class.

Abilities run the gamut from offense to defense, mobility to senses, stats to skills. For example, a Dwarf has higher resistance to damage, and resistance to knockback, among his abilities. Each combination of Race/Class/Specialty yields a different balance. Some of the combinations seem obvious, Tough Knight, Rogue Scout, but the reverse of these combinations will also produce viable characters.

A Rogue Knight wouldn't have the stacked defenses of a Tough Knight, but he'd make an effective point man, with heavy armor for ambushes, and the skills to spot and disarm traps. A Tough Scout could slip into the back ranks of enemies, and still survive any counterattacks.

As characters advance, they gain points to upgrade their current abilities, or purchase new ones. Some abilities are reserved for particular Races, Classes, and Specialties, while others are open to all characters. So the player can either double down on his current set up, or broaden his characters to make them more adaptable to situations.

The values for each character's five main statistics (strength, dexterity, spirit, intelligence and hit points) comes from the choice of Class and Specialty. Buying additional ranks in Statistic Boost or Hit Point Boost will improve these later in the game. Statistics are used with Skills, and improve damage, Strength for heavy weapons, Dexterity for bows and light weapons, and Intelligence for Spells.

About half the starting ability points come from the Classes and really set the theme of the character, so they are the combat anchor for the remaining aspects: Race and Specialty.

Legionnaire. Veterans from light units of the empire's many wars. Aware of the battlefield, and, with shield guard ability, can further reduce damage from opponents. Shield and light armor make this the hardest Class to hit. Push survival higher with the Defensive Specialty, adding deflection and luck. Or go with the Noble Specialty, for added Hit Points, some useful skills, and the ability to add Leadership bonuses to the rest of the party.

  • Armor: Light Armor and Shield
  • Primary Weapon: Sword

Knight. Specialist of heavy infantry units. Higher overall statistics, especially strength, extra hit points and two-handed weapon abilities. Excellent for the front lines with staying power and multiple targets, or add a speciality with extra movement, such as Fast, and send him as a missile into the heart of the enemy.

  • Armor: Heavy Armor
  • Primary Weapon: Two-handed weapons

Scout. What makes the Scout unique is a very high stealth skill, and Shadowmaster, the ability to turn invisible. Scouts excel at flanking or getting behind opponents before they realize they are even there. Often sent to spot the enemy, remove pickets and guide others. Their Sniper ability improves bow use. A natural choice to add the Rogue Specialty to, and create the sneak thief. Nature Scouts become invisible casters, making them major threats.

  • Armor: Light Armor
  • Primary Weapon: Bows

Wizard. The classic spell slinger, and only class that can cast spells from multiple elements. Has 2nd level spells from all elements available at the start. Also has a host of knowledge skills for understanding the occult, and strange artifacts. Combine with an elemental Specialty to access up to 4th level spells, or gain more utility with a less mystical choice.

  • Armor: Light Armor
  • Primary Weapon: Spell Staff

Pitfighter. Recruited, honestly or not, to perform in the pits to entertain the nobility, and the masses. Lots of hit points, aware of the battlefield, extra attack once per encounter. Good with the Fast Specialty to apply their damage to any target in the area.

  • Armor: Light Armor
  • Primary Weapon: Dual wielded light blades

Archer. An excellent sniper or deadly assassin, with massive range, ability to cover fire, and able to fall back on blades if he's pinned down. This is a damage output class, and could improve this further with the Deadly Specialty, or he could choose an elemental Specialty just to get at the spell which converts his damage to that element (fire arrows!).

  • Armor: Light Armor
  • Primary Weapon: Bows

Wraith Hunter. The empire has a strong dislike for the undead, and the hunters are specialized at eradicating them; somewhat similar to the D&D Paladins, without the religious link. Good hit points, strength, awareness of the battlefield, complements additional defense and the ability to Harm the undead. Increase Harm and add in Heal by matching with the Priestly Specialty. Select Death Element Specialty and add Necromantic spells to further control and destroy undead.

  • Armor: Heavy Armor
  • Primary Weapon: Dual wielded heavy blades

Soultender. A solid fighter, often using the spear to extend reach, a selfish Soultender is a hard character to bring down with her abilities to restore her own hit points. Keeping folks alive during battle is a major task, and the Healer has the two major abilities for that: Heal and Rejuvenation. Also, Physician skill for more mundane injuries, better recovery of party Fatigue and Trauma. Combine with Priestly for very high healing, some harm undead, or Nature Element to mimic a druid.

  • Armor: Light Armor
  • Primary Weapon: Two-handed weapons
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#14 bussinrounds
Member since 2009 • 3324 Posts

Yea, they should of put more info out like this in their initial KS pitch, instead of being so vague. Especially being as how the gold box games are pretty old, not on GoG or anything and most gamers now have never even heard of them, much less played them.

As a big fan of the old AD&D Gold Box Games, I did my duty and pledged $40 when they put up the KS, but wasn't to thrilled about the initial pitch. (not that I don't think they can deliver a good game or anything)

But this is more like it. I think they just needed some help on the marketing end of things.

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#15  Edited By krazyorange
Member since 2005 • 2669 Posts

I mean in theory it's nice, but that gameplay video was awful and they did a poor sales pitch. Plus that combat looks so slow, to the point where I would dread encounters. That's why turn-based/real-time with pause is a better option; you can plan it out as tactically as you want while also not being tied down by excessive turn taking animations and waiting periods.

I'll pass on this one. Like someone else said, it looks a lot like old vets trying to trade in a name that hasn't meant something in twenty years.