You are now leader of Germany during WW2

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#1 Posted by SonyNintendoFan (527 posts) -

(Let's leave the persecutions out of this thread, and let's focus only on the politics and war)

Its June 23, 1941, Hitler died and name you leader of all.

Russia has just been invaded and Germany is still at war with England.

What do you do?

Continue the war? Seek peace in the East? Take back your declaration of war against the US?

#2 Posted by Capitan_Kid (6642 posts) -
Bang every German chick ever and then ditch that sorry ass country.
#3 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

Impossible to say. Sure we'd all like to say that we'd move for peace, do all the noble and right sh*t, but maybe we wouldn't. Maybe, upon being given that much power, we turn out to be just as monsterous as Hitler And if we did we'd probably even convince ourselves that our intentions were pure. That we were working for the greater good. Hitler certainly thought that. That's the thing with power - it corrupts. And usually the person holding the power is the last to realize how it's corrupted them (if in fact they ever realize that).

#4 Posted by Riverwolf007 (24428 posts) -

throw everything at the eastern  front and let the allies invade from the west with no opposition.

#5 Posted by Rich3232 (2628 posts) -
well sh*t
#6 Posted by HomicidalCherry (959 posts) -

Declare an armistice, close every concentration camp, remove discriminatory laws against Jews, and immediately start peace talks with all of the allies.  Following the talks, I'd restore free election in Germany.  This shouldn't be a hard question I wonder about anyone who wouldn't immediately stop the genocide and the war given the chance.

#7 Posted by nooblet69 (5162 posts) -

Throw a nationwide oktoberfest beer festival and rally all nations leaders and armies in Germany to drink and make peace.

#8 Posted by kingkong0124 (8329 posts) -

Impossible to say. Sure we'd all like to say that we'd move for peace, do all the noble and right sh*t, but maybe we wouldn't. Maybe, upon being given that much power, we turn out to be just as monsterous as Hitler And if we did we'd probably even convince ourselves that our intentions were pure. That we were working for the greater good. Hitler certainly thought that. That's the thing with power - it corrupts. And usually the person holding the power is the last to realize how it's corrupted them (if in fact they ever realize that).

worlock77
Great post, worlock77.
#9 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

Declare an armistice, close every concentration camp, remove discriminatory laws against Jews, and immediately start peace talks with all of the allies.  Following the talks, I'd restore free election in Germany.  This shouldn't be a hard question I wonder about anyone who wouldn't immediately stop the genocide and the war given the chance.

HomicidalCherry

And what if (leaving the genocide question aside) in suing for peace the Allies demand concessions that you feel are unreasonable or untenable? Afterall, it was the reparations demanded in the peace treaty ending WWI that ruined Germany in the first place.

#10 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
Stop the Holocaust would probably be priority number 1. Actually supply the troops in Russia with proper equipment and then try to negotiate a ceasefire under the pretense that Hitler was a nutcase and that I'd rather not have millions die for a dead mans dreams.
#11 Posted by MgamerBD (17550 posts) -
Continue the war. We already started no reason to turn back.
#12 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

Stop the Holocaust would probably be priority number 1.Ace6301

My history might be fuzzy, but if I recall correctly the Holocaust hadn't really begun at that point in time. I think (and again, my history might be fuzzy) that Jews were basically just confined to ghettos at that point.

#13 Posted by Rich3232 (2628 posts) -
I don't think it started until late 42 early 43.
#14 Posted by kingkong0124 (8329 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Stop the Holocaust would probably be priority number 1.worlock77

My history might be fuzzy, but if I recall correctly the Holocaust hadn't really begun at that point in time. I think (and again, my history might be fuzzy) that Jews were basically just confined to ghettos at that point.

pretty sure you're history is fuzzy
#15 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Stop the Holocaust would probably be priority number 1.worlock77

My history might be fuzzy, but if I recall correctly the Holocaust hadn't really begun at that point in time. I think (and again, my history might be fuzzy) that Jews were basically just confined to ghettos at that point.

They were actively exterminating Jews and other "undesirable" people by the time they had invaded Russia. I don't think the concentration camps that existed at the time were full on extermination sites yet but they were actively looking for Jews and killing them en mass
#16 Posted by sonicare (53737 posts) -

I'd invade Canada.

#17 Posted by sherman-tank1 (8227 posts) -

Easy. Not declare war on the US. No US means Great Britain would of been bled out. 

#18 Posted by sherman-tank1 (8227 posts) -

Stop the Holocaust would probably be priority number 1. Actually supply the troops in Russia with proper equipment and then try to negotiate a ceasefire under the pretense that Hitler was a nutcase and that I'd rather not have millions die for a dead mans dreams. Ace6301
I hope you realize Stalin would attack again afterwards. Russia was going to attack Germany if Hitler didn't strike first, hence why the Russians were not prepared for the German invasion. They were preparing for their own attack.

#19 Posted by HomicidalCherry (959 posts) -

[QUOTE="HomicidalCherry"]

Declare an armistice, close every concentration camp, remove discriminatory laws against Jews, and immediately start peace talks with all of the allies.  Following the talks, I'd restore free election in Germany.  This shouldn't be a hard question I wonder about anyone who wouldn't immediately stop the genocide and the war given the chance.

worlock77

And what if (leaving the genocide question aside) in suing for peace the Allies demand concessions that you feel are unreasonable or untenable? Afterall, it was the reparations demanded in the peace treaty ending WWI that ruined Germany in the first place.

If I became the leader of Germany during WWII, I would do so with full knowledge of the destruction the war caused.  There are almost no concessions that are unreasonable or untenable when the alternative is the single most costly war in human history.  We are talking about 70 million lives lost here.  When the alternative to peace is 70 million dead, everything becomes tenable and everything becomes reasonable.  With that knowledge, it is nothing less than a moral imperative to end the war.  At the same time, I would try to do so in a way that is reasonable and would not create the issues the WWI armistice created.  There is no moral dilemma here.  I don't have to know the cost of peace because I'm sure it's nothing compared to the cost of the war.

#20 Posted by Sword-Demon (7001 posts) -
Bang every German chick ever and then ditch that sorry ass country. Capitan_Kid
over 10 posts without this being quoted? I am disappoint, OT..
#21 Posted by Barbariser (6765 posts) -

Supply soldiers in Soviet Union with decent winter equipment and let Mannstein do whatever the fvck he wants, avoid declaring war on U.S.A. on Japan's behalf, prevent the indiscriminate killing of jews and other minorities (especially leave Slavs alone) and use the freed up manpower to go and secure supply lines from Germany to the Soviet Union and Northern France.

#22 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="HomicidalCherry"]

Declare an armistice, close every concentration camp, remove discriminatory laws against Jews, and immediately start peace talks with all of the allies.  Following the talks, I'd restore free election in Germany.  This shouldn't be a hard question I wonder about anyone who wouldn't immediately stop the genocide and the war given the chance.

HomicidalCherry

And what if (leaving the genocide question aside) in suing for peace the Allies demand concessions that you feel are unreasonable or untenable? Afterall, it was the reparations demanded in the peace treaty ending WWI that ruined Germany in the first place.

If I became the leader of Germany during WWII, I would do so with full knowledge of the destruction the war caused.  There are almost no concessions that are unreasonable or untenable when the alternative is the single most costly war in human history.  We are talking about 70 million lives lost here.  When the alternative to peace is 70 million dead, everything becomes tenable and everything becomes reasonable.  With that knowledge, it is nothing less than a moral imperative to end the war.  At the same time, I would try to do so in a way that is reasonable and would not create the issues the WWI armistice created.  There is no moral dilemma here.  I don't have to know the cost of peace because I'm sure it's nothing compared to the cost of the war.

I think you might be assuming a bit of time travel here. Probably everyone is. The TC didn't mention anything about that. The premise isn't necessarily that you go back to 1941, but rather you were there to begin with (at least that's how I read it). Under that logic you don't know what the results of the war will be. You would not be acting with full knowledge of the ultimate toll of the war will be. And as leader of Germany your foremost responsibility would be to the people of Germany. So if the terms of peace were, say, that Germany becomes a British dominion and all it's citizens then become subject of the British crown would that really be acceptable? Especially when, at that point in time, you have the military might to win the war?

I know, we're looking back at it 70 years after the fact. It can be difficult to abandon our modern perspective at trying to imagine ourselves in that situation at that time with no more knowledge or understanding than any of the leaders then had.

#23 Posted by Lonelynight (30041 posts) -
send all the jews to britain, overwhelm them with refugees.
#24 Posted by ferrari2001 (17425 posts) -
Ally myself with China, give them weapons and create a massive army, using the Chinese as grunts. Slowly wear away the allied forces by shear numbers. Conquer most of Europe, re-founding the Holy Roman Empire and naming myself emperor. Although I would close concentration camps and pay reparations to the Jews, war is one thing Genocide is another.
#25 Posted by Lonelynight (30041 posts) -
Ally myself with China, give them weapons and create a massive army, using the Chinese as grunts. Slowly wear away the allied forces by shear numbers. Conquer most of Europe, re-founding the Holy Roman Empire and naming myself emperor. Although I would close concentration camps and pay reparations to the Jews, war is one thing Genocide is another. ferrari2001
China was at war with Japan.. and they could hardly hold their own against Japan, do you really think they could take on both Japan and Russia at the same time?
#26 Posted by ferrari2001 (17425 posts) -
[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Ally myself with China, give them weapons and create a massive army, using the Chinese as grunts. Slowly wear away the allied forces by shear numbers. Conquer most of Europe, re-founding the Holy Roman Empire and naming myself emperor. Although I would close concentration camps and pay reparations to the Jews, war is one thing Genocide is another. Lonelynight
China was at war with Japan.. and they could hardly hold their own against Japan, do you really think they could take on both Japan and Russia at the same time?

China by themselves was hopeless, brokering a peace deal between them and Japan and then incorporating their shear numbers into my army would be effective. Left on their own they had little military might but they did have a population advantage that would greatly increase the size of my standing army.
#27 Posted by Lonelynight (30041 posts) -
[QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Ally myself with China, give them weapons and create a massive army, using the Chinese as grunts. Slowly wear away the allied forces by shear numbers. Conquer most of Europe, re-founding the Holy Roman Empire and naming myself emperor. Although I would close concentration camps and pay reparations to the Jews, war is one thing Genocide is another. ferrari2001
China was at war with Japan.. and they could hardly hold their own against Japan, do you really think they could take on both Japan and Russia at the same time?

China by themselves was hopeless, brokering a peace deal between them and Japan and then incorporating their shear numbers into my army would be effective. Left on their own they had little military might but they did have a population advantage that would greatly increase the size of my standing army.

What makes you think Japan would want to have a peace deal? or that China would want to join the side of it's enemy? It would make much more sense for them to remain with the Allies.
#28 Posted by Blueresident87 (5384 posts) -

Hitler would never choose me as his successor, because I wouldn't have shared his ideas and beliefs.

#29 Posted by Jackc8 (8500 posts) -

Not much you can do if the invasion of Russia has already begun.  They could have equipped their troops to better deal with the Russian winter, allowed the commanders in the field far more autonomy, and worked more on mass production of simpler tanks and aircraft.  But by that point in the war I think the end was inevitable.

#30 Posted by Flubbbs (3806 posts) -

Stop the Holocaust would probably be priority number 1. Actually supply the troops in Russia with proper equipment and then try to negotiate a ceasefire under the pretense that Hitler was a nutcase and that I'd rather not have millions die for a dead mans dreams. Ace6301

 

50+ million died during ww2.. i think trying for peace might be the best thing for all sides

#31 Posted by Rattlesnake_8 (18434 posts) -
Talk Japan out of hitting the USA and work with the USA to trade etc. Take out England then throw everything at Russia. Talk Japan into helping. Then when its just Germany, Japan and the USA, work it so they fight each other, then take them both out when they are weak. Complete domination. woot
#32 Posted by Postal_Guy (2643 posts) -

1. Try to make peace with the UK
2. When Japan attacks the US, declare war on them to strengthen relations with the US
3. Ask generals about the best way to defeat the USSR and make sure my army there has plenty of supplies (winter)
4. Steamroll Italy and Spain because they are useless
5. Steamroll other worthless countries that are easy prey

After that i'd just sit on a throne in Berlin and bang every German woman untill I get murdered

#33 Posted by unrealtron (3148 posts) -
Get tons of ice cream.
#34 Posted by IPWNDU2 (2535 posts) -

Invade NK

#35 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

Invade NK

IPWNDU2

Best Korea wasn't actually in existence in 1941, and Korea itself was under the control of Japan. Invading your ally's territory might not be the best move during a war.

#36 Posted by IPWNDU2 (2535 posts) -

[QUOTE="IPWNDU2"]

Invade NK

worlock77

Best Korea wasn't actually in existence in 1941, and Korea itself was under the control of Japan. Invading your ally's territory might not be the best move during a war.

 

True but then maybe I can just be a traitor to Japan and somehow prevent them from getting atomic bombed

#37 Posted by -RocBoys9489- (6286 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Stop the Holocaust would probably be priority number 1.worlock77

My history might be fuzzy, but if I recall correctly the Holocaust hadn't really begun at that point in time. I think (and again, my history might be fuzzy) that Jews were basically just confined to ghettos at that point.

This
#38 Posted by wis3boi (32096 posts) -

Give beer and sausage to every nation

#39 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
I hope you realize Stalin would attack again afterwards. Russia was going to attack Germany if Hitler didn't strike first, hence why the Russians were not prepared for the German invasion. They were preparing for their own attack.sherman-tank1
Of course I realize that. My troops stand a better chance with proper equipment for the Russian winters than they do as they were. Negotiating peace with the rest of the allies also would give me room to concentrate on a Russian attack and may even get the other Allies on my side since Russia will appear belligerent while I appear benevolent. In 1941 however Russia was still very much on the defensive and it wouldn't be for another 2 years before they start to push out and gain ground. The point being in 1941 Germany was the one with the initiative and as such I could exploit that to reduce lives lost and potentially avoid the cold war if things went extremely well. [QUOTE="-RocBoys9489-"] This

Actually no, Jews were actively being hunted and exterminated in 1941. It wasn't in full swing and wouldn't peak until '44 but the holocaust was already under way and people were being killed for no reason other than being who they were. I wouldn't allow that.
#40 Posted by MacBoomStick (1822 posts) -

I was hoping I could hace come into power before the invasion of Russia. If then, I would kill Britian, end the wars, and rule Europe till the day I die.

#41 Posted by ShadowsDemon (9550 posts) -
Make every drink until they're zonked out, and then drink some more.
#42 Posted by Fightingfan (38011 posts) -
Continue the war. We already started no reason to turn back.MgamerBD
This. I would wanted to show the world the world well never F-- with Germany again like they did in WW1.
#43 Posted by MrPraline (21331 posts) -
If I'm in Germany, 1941 I'll find the guy that reported a harmless post and got me modded the other day and will tell him not to take the "report your neighbor" thing too literally. F*cking scumbags.
#44 Posted by HomicidalCherry (959 posts) -

[QUOTE="HomicidalCherry"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

And what if (leaving the genocide question aside) in suing for peace the Allies demand concessions that you feel are unreasonable or untenable? Afterall, it was the reparations demanded in the peace treaty ending WWI that ruined Germany in the first place.

worlock77

If I became the leader of Germany during WWII, I would do so with full knowledge of the destruction the war caused.  There are almost no concessions that are unreasonable or untenable when the alternative is the single most costly war in human history.  We are talking about 70 million lives lost here.  When the alternative to peace is 70 million dead, everything becomes tenable and everything becomes reasonable.  With that knowledge, it is nothing less than a moral imperative to end the war.  At the same time, I would try to do so in a way that is reasonable and would not create the issues the WWI armistice created.  There is no moral dilemma here.  I don't have to know the cost of peace because I'm sure it's nothing compared to the cost of the war.

I think you might be assuming a bit of time travel here. Probably everyone is. The TC didn't mention anything about that. The premise isn't necessarily that you go back to 1941, but rather you were there to begin with (at least that's how I read it). Under that logic you don't know what the results of the war will be. You would not be acting with full knowledge of the ultimate toll of the war will be. And as leader of Germany your foremost responsibility would be to the people of Germany. So if the terms of peace were, say, that Germany becomes a British dominion and all it's citizens then become subject of the British crown would that really be acceptable? Especially when, at that point in time, you have the military might to win the war?

I know, we're looking back at it 70 years after the fact. It can be difficult to abandon our modern perspective at trying to imagine ourselves in that situation at that time with no more knowledge or understanding than any of the leaders then had.

Looks like we were answering different questions.  I'm not sure how to remove all knowledge of the war and the future state of the world and be able to say much of anything about what decisions I would make.  It's almost as if a different person is put in that position and I have to guess what they would do.  I don't know because I'm not sure what I would value with my perspective cut away like that.  For example, if I were made a head of state right now, my foremost responsibility would not be to my people.  I would not make decisions that benefit my people at the extreme expense of others because my foremost priority is not my people.  I believe that a moral responsibility to all people supercedes that.  But if I grew up a hundred years ago?  If I was so involved in Nazi Germany that I was named Hitler's successor?  My priorities would be completely different.  I have no idea how I'd choose to act.

 

Rereading the OP, you're probably right about the question, but it's not really a question I know how to answer.  I'm basically speculating on a different person at that point.  I'd like to think I'd stop the genocide at the very least, but I don't think even that's guaranteed when my environment and perspective has been so altered.