Why is pornography looked down upon?

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#51 Posted by always_explicit (3132 posts) -

@MrGeezer said:

@always_explicit said:

Well regarding your first point, pornstars dont suck or fuck anything they dont want to suck or fuck...its not forced manual labor here. Its two consenting adults partaking in sexual acts that are agreed upon before they take place....not a case of offering random people on the street money to do things as you suggest. You also seem so convinced that people look at pornstars and judge them negatively... I know lots of guys who wouldnt want to take a pornstar home to meet their mothers, but I do not know many guys who would describe them as disgusting.

I dont have a warped view of anyone. I said most janitors take jobs like that through neccessity rather than desire, most pornstars do porn because they enjoy the act of sex and they enjoy the money. I am sure there are plenty of janitors who love and hate their jobs but that was not my point. My point was trying to make YOU aware that the comparison YOU made was stupid.

he job doesnt require having sex with people they dont want to. Any reputable pornographic production is very clear about what takes place with whom, the participants are checked for STI's and are under absoutely no obligation to have sex with somebody if they do not desire due to a little thing called "the law". Whether these women getting fucked on camera for a living wanted to be movie stars and settled into porn is neither here nor there. Its their choice, their free will and certainly not a reason to look down upon them.

The topic was regarding why pornstars are looked down upon and so far the only argument you have provided is "because its disgusting". They clearly have other options as you admit yourself, they clearly are not being forced into it. You take issue with it because you find it disgusting, which is absolutely fine, Its your opinion and your entitled to it but these blanket statements and comparisons to prostitutes and janitors dont make sense to me. They are people doing what they want to do, being watched by millions of men and women who want to watch them do it.

I probably wouldnt marry a woman who spent 20 years in the porn industry either, but that's no reason to look down on the industry or those who work in it as disgusting people doing disgusting things through a lack of options as you suggest. That just shows plain ignorance. I have no doubt poor girls from far flung countries see porn as a way to escape, but its their brain, their bodies and a shared responsibility to make sure they are not abused. Its also an entirely separate topic of conversation.

In many many cases, it is a case of "do what we tell you to do or else you don't get money." Sure they're not forced, but janitors also aren't forced to clean up feces and vomit. They're entirely free to not do it, and then not get paid. If a pornstar refuses to do hardcore pornography, you're not obligated to create softcore jobs for her. You're a hardcore pornographer, that's what you do, and you're not obligated to keep someone on the payroll if they're not doing the required job. And dude, EVERYONE has other options. Janitors and garbage men have the option of working the cash register at McDonalds, pornographers have the option of working at a call center. Hookers have the option of doing something legal. The fact that there are things that you'd rather not do doesn't mean that you like your current job.

And you sure are hypocritical. You are so certain that all porn stars just love their jobs so much, yet refuse to believe that maybe janitors actually get some satisfaction out of cleaning. But that's neither here nor there, because regardless of whether or not they like it, people still view it as a gross freaking job. Does the fact that it's their choice, their free will, somehow make people think that the work is any less gross?

Again your making the absolute blanket assumption that people think porn and pornstars are gross....i dont think that is the case.

Who are all these people that view it "as a gross freaking job"??

#52 Edited by Korvus (9055 posts) -

@alim298: Assuming I had a kid like that and assuming he was in that situation because he didn't want to do anything in life, then I would probably just have to admit that I'd done a shitty job raising him and that he wouldn't give a crap whether I approved of his actions or not, so unless I actually forced him to change (like kicking him out of the house) he would take me as being all bark and no bite and that if me disapproving of him was that price to pay for living off me while spending his whole day playing video games, then it would be a small price to pay.

But I do understand your point...I just think that when you're overly concerned about other people's lives, and even manage to muster some disdain or hate for said people based purely on their choice of profession, you're making no impact on their lives but a big negative impact on your own =)

As for your final point, neither of us is a porn actor (I'm just guessing here =p) so, like you said, there's no way of proving whether there is self-damage done or not.

#53 Edited by MrGeezer (57194 posts) -

@always_explicit said:

Again your making the absolute blanket assumption that people think porn and pornstars are gross....i dont think that is the case.

Who are all these people that view it "as a gross freaking job"??

Well, a lot of them do. Obviously not all, but a lot. Obviously I haven't personally asked everyone in the world, but a certain level of presumption is required any time you talk about why other people do or think things. If I were to make the claim that "people think that mopping feces off of truck stop bathrooms is gross", you could take the exact same objection. Who are those people who think that it's gross, and by what possible standard could I objectively determine that to be the case? If you were to claim that people DON'T think that porn is a gross job, I could ask you exactly the same thing. How would you know, and where are you getting your data?

#54 Posted by always_explicit (3132 posts) -
@MrGeezer said:

@always_explicit said:

Again your making the absolute blanket assumption that people think porn and pornstars are gross....i dont think that is the case.

Who are all these people that view it "as a gross freaking job"??

Well, a lot of them do. Obviously not all, but a lot. Obviously I haven't personally asked everyone in the world, but a certain level of presumption is required any time you talk about why other people do or think things. If I were to make the claim that "people think that mopping feces off of truck stop bathrooms is gross", you could take the exact same objection. Who are those people who think that it's gross, and by what possible standard could I objectively determine that to be the case? If you were to claim that people DON'T think that porn is a gross job, I could ask you exactly the same thing. How would you know, and where are you getting your data?

So accepting a job wiping shit off a truck stop bathroom is comparable to having sex with a woman??

I dont know what porn you watch but from my experience both parties tend to enjoy the experience, most of the time they achieve orgasm and walk home a few thousand dollars richer.

Can we just forget the janitor thing cos its not assisting your argument. I dont know a single janitor who went to work got to screw a beautiful woman achieve orgasm and walk home a few thousand dollars richer. You created this comparison just because YOU find both jobs gross it doesnt make them comparable.

I wouldnt look down upon a cleaner or a pornstar. Perhaps our differing opinion has nothing to do with pornography and more what you deem to a less than worthy job.

#55 Posted by MrGeezer (57194 posts) -

@always_explicit said:

So accepting a job wiping shit off a truck stop bathroom is comparable to having sex with a woman??

I dont know what porn you watch but from my experience both parties tend to enjoy the experience, most of the time they achieve orgasm and walk home a few thousand dollars richer.

Can we just forget the janitor thing cos its not assisting your argument. I dont know a single janitor who went to work got to screw a beautiful woman achieve orgasm and walk home a few thousand dollars richer. You created this comparison just because YOU find both jobs gross it doesnt make them comparable.

I wouldnt look down upon a cleaner or a pornstar. Perhaps our differing opinion has nothing to do with pornography and more what you deem to a less than worthy job.

Actually, I know quite a few peopl who'd rather clean bathrooms than do the kind of things that happen in porn. At least cleaners get to use gloves and aren't having things deliberately put into their bodies.

Anyway, I suggest that you do some actual research into the kinds of sick stuff that actually goes on in the porn industry. It's not freaking pleasant and a lot of porn stars are absolutely miserable. It's still their choice and they can do what they want, but it's a sick freaking industry and a lot of people are aware of that.

#56 Edited by theReturnoftheG (39 posts) -

lol what's with all the porn related topics these days all of a sudden?

I already explained what I thought in another thread the other day: The industry itself, I have no real opinion. As someone already brought up, it's necessary because it keeps sex obsessed people calm or at least toned down so they may not explode and go on some raping spree or something like that (Excessive amounts of it may lead to arguably just as bad results though, but it isn't as common as a simple means to calm a nimpho down), but other than that is just a bunch of people fucking each other for money, I don't care enough about my fellow man to have any opinion on that; If they wanna sell themselves like that, whatever, it's none of my business and to be honest I'd prefer if it stayed that way because I don't want to complicate myself with how dangerous the adult-entertainment industry can be.

However, it is looked down upon because it promotes promiscuity which is a trait society does not like, transforming sex into simple pleasure play instead of something for pro-creation or as a sign of some type of bond between a couple; It's also considered misogynistic in many ways since it's almost entirely based around the body exploitation of women (Of course, a similar thing could be said for the males in the movies since a great deal of the time you can't even see their faces and are absolutely nothing more than robots with penises, the entire spotlight being put on the women and men being even more expendable than the girls), since most of the audience are males (Don't even bother to tell me how many women watch porn, it doesn't matter, most of the audience are dudes).

Generally, it's also seen as an option to someone who couldn't get their lives on the "Right" track by themselves and ended up taking the "Easy way out" (Hey, can't get good grades? Don't want proper responsabilities or work on any particular real talent? I'll just do videos of me having sex and sell that, of course!), although I use "Easy" loosely considering how many women are sexually harassed because of the industry, which adds to the last point, it's very dangerous and it implies a lack of true self-love, although a lot of them enter the industry without actually knowing how risky it is. Of course, not EVERYONE in the industry chooses this for simple easy paths although most of them certainly do, and you'd be surprised at just how many anti-porn movements have been led by former pornstars. It's not all it's cracked up to be most of the time unless you can reach great levels of popularity, and even then it's still not totally safe (Jenna Jameson was at the brink of being raped by a mailman on her own home).

It's the same reason why strippers, pole dancers, street whores, etc are looked down upon.

#57 Posted by Master_Live (15832 posts) -

Stay safe. Go amateur.

#58 Posted by MrGeezer (57194 posts) -

@thereturnoftheg said:
As someone already brought up, it's necessary because it keeps sex obsessed people calm or at least toned down so they may not explode and go on some raping spree or something like that (Excessive amounts of it may lead to arguably just as bad results though, but it isn't as common as a simple means to calm a nimpho down), but other than that is just a bunch of people fucking each other for money, I don't care enough about my fellow man to have any opinion on that; If they wanna sell themselves like that, whatever, it's none of my business and to be honest I'd prefer if it stayed that way because I don't want to complicate myself with how dangerous the adult-entertainment industry can be.

However, it is looked down upon because it promotes promiscuity which is a trait society does not like, transforming sex into simple pleasure play instead of something for pro-creation or as a sign of some type of bond between a couple; It's also considered misogynistic in many ways since it's almost entirely based around the body exploitation of women (Of course, a similar thing could be said for the males in the movies since a great deal of the time you can't even see their faces and are absolutely nothing more than robots with penises, the entire spotlight being put on the women and men being even more expendable than the girls), since most of the audience are males (Don't even bother to tell me how many women watch porn, it doesn't matter, most of the audience are dudes).

1) First and primary point, regarding it keeping people from going on raping sprees. My question is, does that have any basis in actual reality? I mean, it's easy to imagine some sick fucker who's so desperate for sexual release that he'll rape women if he doesn't get his porn, but that's before you actually think about it. Were people going on raping sprees before the internet came around and we got easy access to free porn? Are most people going on raping sprees in countries where access to porn is restricted? And besides, isn't rape generally more about demeaning or dehumanizing the victim rather than about getting sexual satisfaction? I was under the impression that most rapes were about power more than about sexual release. Even if you're desperately sadly horny, you're still not gonna go out and rape someone (let alone go on a raping spree) unless you're just angry and hateful towards them. The people who do that actually hate women, while men who are merely desperate and horny go and beat off in the closet. The point being, access to porn wouldn't cut down on RAPES unless the porn's function was to provide a release for one's hateful feelings towards women. Porn that isn't misogynistic wouldn't have the same effect, seeing as it isn't a release for the viewer's desire to be dominant over women.

And furthermore, how well does indulging in violent fantasies REALLY cut down on peoples' urge to act out? You can say that's providing a release so that they don't act that way in real life, but isn't that also sort of making them spend more time thinking about how they hate women? And isn't that also associating hatred of women with pleasure? Before they might hate women and hold it in, but by turning it into porn it's associating hatred of women with a goddamn orgasm. Now that misogynists have a socially acceptable avenue to indulge in their misogynistic fantasies, doesn't that increase the likelihood of them staying misogynists?

2) Second and less primary point. This is actually a comment and not a question. I see your point about males being more objectified in porn since they're usually less of the focus, but I disagree. It's not that they're supposed to be robots, it's that they're supposed to be a blank slate for the viewer to project himself onto. As in, when you see porn where a woman is getting penetrated by five guys and you only see the woman in entirety, that's for a reason. That reason is so that the viewer can imagine himself as one of the guys involved. He's a blank slate, intended for the viewer to imagine himself in that role (and obviously not all porn is like this). The end result is this: The only person remotely coming off as a person is the one having stuff done to her, while the ones doing stuff to her are meant to be a blank slate for the audience. This is important because it implies "this porn is targetted toward men who want to do these things to a woman." And when "these things" are deliberately intended to be about violating every orifice and soiling her in extraordinary ways, it's hard to not see the connection to misogyny. I've seen a lot of stuff in porn that I wouldn't think about doing to a real woman. If the male actors are supposed to be a blank slate for me to project myself onto, then what does that say about me? If I find that fantasy compelling and arousing, then what does that say about me?

#59 Posted by always_explicit (3132 posts) -

@MrGeezer said:

@always_explicit said:

So accepting a job wiping shit off a truck stop bathroom is comparable to having sex with a woman??

I dont know what porn you watch but from my experience both parties tend to enjoy the experience, most of the time they achieve orgasm and walk home a few thousand dollars richer.

Can we just forget the janitor thing cos its not assisting your argument. I dont know a single janitor who went to work got to screw a beautiful woman achieve orgasm and walk home a few thousand dollars richer. You created this comparison just because YOU find both jobs gross it doesnt make them comparable.

I wouldnt look down upon a cleaner or a pornstar. Perhaps our differing opinion has nothing to do with pornography and more what you deem to a less than worthy job.

Actually, I know quite a few peopl who'd rather clean bathrooms than do the kind of things that happen in porn. At least cleaners get to use gloves and aren't having things deliberately put into their bodies.

Anyway, I suggest that you do some actual research into the kinds of sick stuff that actually goes on in the porn industry. It's not freaking pleasant and a lot of porn stars are absolutely miserable. It's still their choice and they can do what they want, but it's a sick freaking industry and a lot of people are aware of that.

How is cleanliness an issue?

Pornstars use condoms and have showers before scenes and they also consent to the act of sex which is obviously going to be "unhygenic" but again...people dont induldge in sex because they want to be clean do they?

These people also consent to having things put inside their bodies. So again, how is that relevent to the topic.

People look down on porn because its unhygenic? is that the best we got?

Again if a pornstar isnt happy doing porn then they can do another job, as I have said nobody is forced into any job, its porn not slavery. If they are doing it and are miserable is "porn" to blame? Or is the person to blame for allowing themseleves to be miserable. I know if I dont like my job I leave and find another, its my responsibility to ensure my own happiness not that of the industry I work in.

You clearly find the act of sex for the sake of pornography disgusting and that is your only argument but the rest is just clutching at straws as far as I can see. There is amazing non hardcore erotic porn that exists. There is porn with real couples enhaving their own sex lives by making videos together. Its still porn...is that still disgusting?

I think somebody thinks sex is gross...

#60 Posted by sSubZerOo (44400 posts) -

Isn't it obvious? Here in the United States we are in a very childish and prudish environment.. In which violence is seen as perfectly ok, just as long as we don't see any kind of partial nudity within our media..

#61 Edited by thehig1 (3535 posts) -

@KHAndAnime said:

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

Women in porn are treated despicably. If I could, I'd take the entire industry down.

Sasha Grey is treated despicably? Last time I checked, nobody held a gun to anyone's head to make a porno (unless it was a rapexplotation video).

Exactly

They are not forced to do it, and some porntars are very well paid, especially popular ones who have there own Website with subscribers and what not.

When you look at fetish porn stars too, and read the about me part of their site they are actually doing things THEY like, make a ton of money from Website subscriptions and a lot of people pay tributes too.

#62 Posted by Glitter (355 posts) -

I cannot represent everyone when I post this, but for me I always feel bad when I look at awful stuff like that.

#63 Posted by MrGeezer (57194 posts) -

@always_explicit said:

How is cleanliness an issue?

Pornstars use condoms and have showers before scenes and they also consent to the act of sex which is obviously going to be "unhygenic" but again...people dont induldge in sex because they want to be clean do they?

These people also consent to having things put inside their bodies. So again, how is that relevent to the topic.

People look down on porn because its unhygenic? is that the best we got?

Again if a pornstar isnt happy doing porn then they can do another job, as I have said nobody is forced into any job, its porn not slavery. If they are doing it and are miserable is "porn" to blame? Or is the person to blame for allowing themseleves to be miserable. I know if I dont like my job I leave and find another, its my responsibility to ensure my own happiness not that of the industry I work in.

You clearly find the act of sex for the sake of pornography disgusting and that is your only argument but the rest is just clutching at straws as far as I can see. There is amazing non hardcore erotic porn that exists. There is porn with real couples enhaving their own sex lives by making videos together. Its still porn...is that still disgusting?

I think somebody thinks sex is gross...

Keep being willfully ignorant. If you took five minutes to look up the topic you'd see the kind of shit that former pornstars have come forward to denounce the industry for. This includes lack of condoms and proper hygiene and extends to rampant drugs, common STDs, and borderline rape. For the most part it's shitty work and the workers do not fucking enjoy it. This information is widely known and is easily found. If you just want to bury your head in the sand, that's your prerogative.

And I never said they can't get another job. I was the one telling YOU that everyone has other options (although, good luck keeping your new job once your new employer discovers that you used to do porn). My position was that it's a shitty job and it's sick freaking work. You're the one pretending like it's a dream job and all the girls like it, and I'm telling you that's not the case. The industry breeds misery.

#64 Posted by MrGeezer (57194 posts) -

@thehig1 said:

@KHAndAnime said:

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

Women in porn are treated despicably. If I could, I'd take the entire industry down.

Sasha Grey is treated despicably? Last time I checked, nobody held a gun to anyone's head to make a porno (unless it was a rapexplotation video).

Exactly

They are not forced to do it, and some porntars are very well paid, especially popular ones who have there own Website with subscribers and what not.

When you look at fetish porn stars too, and read the about me part of their site they are actually doing things THEY like, make a ton of money from Website subscriptions and a lot of people pay tributes too.

I'm sure that the A-list porn stars are often treated better because they have leverage. They're worth a lot of money for their employers, and they can make more demands under threat of leaving. Keep in mind though that most of them are not A-list pornstars in the same way that most actors are not A-list movie stars. Even then you've got hugely popular porn stars like Jenna Presley leaving the industry and then immediately talking about how miserable they were when they were still in the industry.

And of course no one's gonna say that they hate their jobs while they're still working. That's not just a porn thing, that's a job thing. If you're a manager for Burger King and you go onto your Facebook and publicly talk about how awful the company is and how much you hate your job, how long do you think you're still gonna be a manager for Burger King?

#65 Edited by KHAndAnime (14921 posts) -

@MrGeezer said:

@thehig1 said:

@KHAndAnime said:

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

Women in porn are treated despicably. If I could, I'd take the entire industry down.

Sasha Grey is treated despicably? Last time I checked, nobody held a gun to anyone's head to make a porno (unless it was a rapexplotation video).

Exactly

They are not forced to do it, and some porntars are very well paid, especially popular ones who have there own Website with subscribers and what not.

When you look at fetish porn stars too, and read the about me part of their site they are actually doing things THEY like, make a ton of money from Website subscriptions and a lot of people pay tributes too.

I'm sure that the A-list porn stars are often treated better because they have leverage. They're worth a lot of money for their employers, and they can make more demands under threat of leaving. Keep in mind though that most of them are not A-list pornstars in the same way that most actors are not A-list movie stars. Even then you've got hugely popular porn stars like Jenna Presley leaving the industry and then immediately talking about how miserable they were when they were still in the industry.

And of course no one's gonna say that they hate their jobs while they're still working. That's not just a porn thing, that's a job thing. If you're a manager for Burger King and you go onto your Facebook and publicly talk about how awful the company is and how much you hate your job, how long do you think you're still gonna be a manager for Burger King?

Have you seen any documentaries on the subject Geezer? I've seen a few. There appear are plenty of porn stars who aren't A-list, and appear perfectly happy doing what they do. Nobody is going to get fired for saying they're unhappy at their job, that's complete bullshit, and I've never heard of anything like that in my lifetime. Revealing negative things about a company can get you fired, but that's the extent of it. Can you imagine how that would make a company look if they fired someone for saying they don't like the job? The reality is that not everybody loves their job in life. These businesses want employees too, ya'know, they likely wouldn't sacrifice their reputation as an employer to illegally fire one person.

There's also such thing as unlawful termination. Get yours hours reduced? Collect unemployment, find a new job, and move on.

#66 Edited by MrGeezer (57194 posts) -

@KHAndAnime said:

Have you seen any documentaries on the subject Geezer? I've seen a few. There appear are plenty of porn stars who aren't A-list, and appear perfectly happy doing what they do. Nobody is going to get fired for saying they're unhappy at their job, that's complete bullshit, and I've never heard of anything like that in my lifetime. Revealing negative things about a company can get you fired, but that's the extent of it. Can you imagine how that would make a company look if they fired someone for saying they don't like the job? The reality is that not everybody loves their job in life. These businesses want employees too, ya'know, they likely wouldn't sacrifice their reputation as an employer to illegally fire one person.

There's also such thing as unlawful termination. Get yours hours reduced? Collect unemployment, find a new job, and move on.

Wow, you're just completely full of shit. People get fired for talking badly about their jobs and their bosses all the freaking time. That's not illegal, seeing as how it directly hurts the company. It's harder to recruit new people when you've got an employee out there actively telling people how much the job sucks.

Regardless, there is no shortage of porn stars who have come out to state the kinds of shady things that are common in the industry. Are you calling them liars? Are you stating that that stuff doesn't happen, when the people who actually worked in the industry are flat-out saying that it does?

#67 Edited by magicalclick (24263 posts) -

1) talking bad about the company don't immediately get you fired. But, obviously your performance reviews is going to look bad naturally due to lack of engagement and lack of cooperation.

2) totally support porn industry. There are shady porn, but, that's why we should advocate legitimate porn businesses.

3) I respect porn stars.

4) it is not easy to get a job, the company have plenty to choose from. And it will be harder for porn star because they normally don't have time getting trained for professional skills. If they want, they can leave the porn out of their resume. It is not like the recruiter watch porn all day long to remember every porn star's face.

5) I don't consider the people watching porn is pervert or something something. Porn is very educational. I learn a lot from porn.

6) Porn lacks intimacy? Well duh, ever heard of NSA? No strings attached. If they actually form a string, they would get depressed everytime after the one night stand.

7) sex (just like video game) is fun and don't ever tell others not to do it because you are not much into it. Sex is just an activity. Watching porn is just an activity. Nothing wrong with people wanting to do it more often than others.

#68 Posted by MrGeezer (57194 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

1) talking bad about the company don't immediately get you fired. But, obviously your performance reviews is going to look bad naturally due to lack of engagement and lack of cooperation.

2) totally support porn industry. There are shady porn, but, that's why we should advocate legitimate porn businesses.

3) I respect porn stars.

4) it is not easy to get a job, the company have plenty to choose from. And it will be harder for porn star because they normally don't have time getting trained for professional skills. If they want, they can leave the porn out of their resume. It is not like the recruiter watch porn all day long to remember every porn star's face.

5) I don't consider the people watching porn is pervert or something something. Porn is very educational. I learn a lot from porn.

6) Porn lacks intimacy? Well duh, ever heard of NSA? No strings attached. If they actually form a string, they would get depressed everytime after the one night stand.

7) sex (just like video game) is fun and don't ever tell others not to do it because you are not much into it. Sex is just an activity. Watching porn is just an activity. Nothing wrong with people wanting to do it more often than others.

If you support porn and want the shadier aspects to go away, then the thing to do is to stop sweeping it under the rug and ignoring how common it is. I'm not saying that every employer does everything shadily, but the industry at large is full of a LOT of disgusting shit, and acting like porn is a dream job is just allowing that kind of shit to continue. Acknowledge when this stuff happens. We should be pointing out the employers who do the shadier stuff, then pointing to the good employers and saying "these guys don't do that." You can't single out the employers who treat their employees with respect and dignity without acknowledging the ones who don't. It's the same thing with anything. If there's a common practice of manipulating poor people into performing dangerous labor in the garment industry, then you don't improve things by pretending that everything is okay. You point out when children get mangled in industrial machines due to lack of safety procedures, and then draw attention to companies that don't do that shit. If you're against the animal abuse that goes on at factory farms, you don't make things better by pretending that stuff doesn't happen. No, you make things better by paying attention to when it does happen and then pointing out the ones who don't fucking do it.

#69 Posted by PS4hasNOgames (2485 posts) -

its because they're treating something that should be sacred as a cheap and dirty thing.

#70 Posted by always_explicit (3132 posts) -

@MrGeezer said:

@always_explicit said:

How is cleanliness an issue?

Pornstars use condoms and have showers before scenes and they also consent to the act of sex which is obviously going to be "unhygenic" but again...people dont induldge in sex because they want to be clean do they?

These people also consent to having things put inside their bodies. So again, how is that relevent to the topic.

People look down on porn because its unhygenic? is that the best we got?

Again if a pornstar isnt happy doing porn then they can do another job, as I have said nobody is forced into any job, its porn not slavery. If they are doing it and are miserable is "porn" to blame? Or is the person to blame for allowing themseleves to be miserable. I know if I dont like my job I leave and find another, its my responsibility to ensure my own happiness not that of the industry I work in.

You clearly find the act of sex for the sake of pornography disgusting and that is your only argument but the rest is just clutching at straws as far as I can see. There is amazing non hardcore erotic porn that exists. There is porn with real couples enhaving their own sex lives by making videos together. Its still porn...is that still disgusting?

I think somebody thinks sex is gross...

Keep being willfully ignorant. If you took five minutes to look up the topic you'd see the kind of shit that former pornstars have come forward to denounce the industry for. This includes lack of condoms and proper hygiene and extends to rampant drugs, common STDs, and borderline rape. For the most part it's shitty work and the workers do not fucking enjoy it. This information is widely known and is easily found. If you just want to bury your head in the sand, that's your prerogative.

And I never said they can't get another job. I was the one telling YOU that everyone has other options (although, good luck keeping your new job once your new employer discovers that you used to do porn). My position was that it's a shitty job and it's sick freaking work. You're the one pretending like it's a dream job and all the girls like it, and I'm telling you that's not the case. The industry breeds misery.

Care to quote me when I said it was a dream job?

Care to quote me when I said these people lack options? I didnt specify that these people DO have options because its BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS they have options. I have no doubt that there have been instances were proper precaustions have not been taken, STI's have been transmitted and condoms have not been worn....but is that the fault of the industry or those individuals concerned? Again il point you back in the direction of what this topic was actually about.... Why is pornography looked down upon.

So far because you think its dirty, sick and a shitty job. You made your point.

However if it was that shit nobody would do it....because people have these options you keep banging on about. They do it for the money, so they obviously value that money more than the overall shittiness of the job they have been asked to do dont they.The isolated occasions where people caught STI's and abuse drugs really have very little to do with the industry. I wouldnt walk onto a building site without a hard hat and a hi visibility vest in the same way that if I was a pornstar I wouldnt have sex without condoms and knowing my fellow actor/actresses were clear from disease. If I walk on to a building site and bang my head because I didnt wear a hard hat do I blame the building industry for making me do a shitty job and making me not wear my hard hat?....NO....I accept responsibility for my own actions.

Nobody forced anyone to fuck anyone nobody forced them to snort cocaine till they were numb and nobody made them neglect their own personal safety.

If you dont like porn dont watch it, you have spoken with your wallet so to speak, but blaming an entire industry for a handful of isolated incidents you saw on an overly sensationalised "documentary" on netflix doesnt make you any more educated than me or anyone else on the subject. What it does... is make you look totally irrational.

#71 Posted by sukraj (24187 posts) -

when my wife is to tired or busy to give me sex I have to masterbate to porn.

#72 Posted by MrGeezer (57194 posts) -

@always_explicit said:

Care to quote me when I said it was a dream job?

Care to quote me when I said these people lack options? I didnt specify that these people DO have options because its BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS they have options. I have no doubt that there have been instances were proper precaustions have not been taken, STI's have been transmitted and condoms have not been worn....but is that the fault of the industry or those individuals concerned? Again il point you back in the direction of what this topic was actually about.... Why is pornography looked down upon.

So far because you think its dirty, sick and a shitty job. You made your point.

However if it was that shit nobody would do it....because people have these options you keep banging on about. They do it for the money, so they obviously value that money more than the overall shittiness of the job they have been asked to do dont they.The isolated occasions where people caught STI's and abuse drugs really have very little to do with the industry. I wouldnt walk onto a building site without a hard hat and a hi visibility vest in the same way that if I was a pornstar I wouldnt have sex without condoms and knowing my fellow actor/actresses were clear from disease. If I walk on to a building site and bang my head because I didnt wear a hard hat do I blame the building industry for making me do a shitty job and making me not wear my hard hat?....NO....I accept responsibility for my own actions.

Nobody forced anyone to fuck anyone nobody forced them to snort cocaine till they were numb and nobody made them neglect their own personal safety.

If you dont like porn dont watch it, you have spoken with your wallet so to speak, but blaming an entire industry for a handful of isolated incidents you saw on an overly sensationalised "documentary" on netflix doesnt make you any more educated than me or anyone else on the subject. What it does... is make you look totally irrational.

"The Industry" IS "the individuals concerned", Einstein. And when these kinds of practices are COMMON, then we're talking about a shitty fucking industry.

"If it was that shit, nobody would do it." Wow, really? So when all those kids were getting mangled up in industrial machinery back in the day, what was the problem? Hey, if getting mangled up in machines due to lax safety and worker abuse was BAD, no one would take the job. Tainted meat? Well shit...if it was that bad, no one would buy it. If you work for a construction company and find that your employer won't LET workers wear hardhats, what's the problem?

#73 Edited by GamingGod999 (3134 posts) -

Because looking down on others makes you feel better about yourself.

#74 Posted by Makhaidos (2162 posts) -

Both industries need to be regulated in order to prevent unethical and unsafe business practices.

#75 Posted by lightleggy (16090 posts) -

@geekinkinc said:

All it [pornography ]is is humans interacting in activities that lead to reproduction... nothing wrong with that. How come YouTube doesn't allow it? Pisses me off.

Same with prostitution. If someone wants to "sell" their body, shouldn't they be allowed to without repercussion? Pisses me off.

Same with girls getting with many men and being looked down upon. Sex is enjoyable for everyone at all times most times, why can't everyone enjoy it without guilt? Pisses me off.

Don't these things piss you off too? Gosh.

Pornography spreads (no pun intended) a plethora of fake sex myths/stereotypes that are honestly harmful to society as a whole. Thanks to pornography, there are people out there who believe that every sexual encounter they have should last at least an hour or more or "they can't last for shit" (and I'd clarify that according to porn: maybe 40 of those 60 minutes should be spent in uninterrupted coitus), and so they ridicule others, or have self-issues because of the idea that they are doing something wrong. I do not know a single person who has managed to have uninterrupted coitus for 40 minutes...heck, the ACTUAL average time for coitus ranges from FIVE TO 8 MINUTES, and there a bunch of people going around saying that a "quickie" should last 10. Sex is pretty darn exhausting too, most people are already sweating like pigs after 5 minutes of pouncing. Most porn flicks are shot with multiple takes and breaks and then just pieced together to give the impression that the actors never stopped for over an hour, plus the male actors are swimming in drugs (legal drugs) to keep them from having refractory periods so they can cum and still be hard as a rock. Not to mention the show that the actress put. A guy at my class dumped his girlfriend because she "was not loud enough" during sex so he thought that the girl was not appreciating the sex because she was not a heavy moaner like most pornstars.

That does pisses me off.

And prostitution is illegal because of the other range of illegal activities surrounding it. Most prostitutes are victims of human trafficking.

#76 Posted by lightleggy (16090 posts) -

@KHAndAnime said:

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

Women in porn are treated despicably. If I could, I'd take the entire industry down.

Sasha Grey is treated despicably? Last time I checked, nobody held a gun to anyone's head to make a porno (unless it was a rapexplotation video).

Uhh there's actually A LOT going on behind closed doors. A lot of these girls are drugged and raped at events. A lot of them also don't want to be pornstars, they get called into "modeling" and then pretty much coerced into doing porn, and then there are the desperate ones who need cash either for college or just to make a living.

#77 Posted by PS4hasNOgames (2485 posts) -

@lightleggy said:

@geekinkinc said:

All it [pornography ]is is humans interacting in activities that lead to reproduction... nothing wrong with that. How come YouTube doesn't allow it? Pisses me off.

Same with prostitution. If someone wants to "sell" their body, shouldn't they be allowed to without repercussion? Pisses me off.

Same with girls getting with many men and being looked down upon. Sex is enjoyable for everyone at all times most times, why can't everyone enjoy it without guilt? Pisses me off.

Don't these things piss you off too? Gosh.

Pornography spreads (no pun intended) a plethora of fake sex myths/stereotypes that are honestly harmful to society as a whole. Thanks to pornography, there are people out there who believe that every sexual encounter they have should last at least an hour or more or "they can't last for shit" (and I'd clarify that according to porn: maybe 40 of those 60 minutes should be spent in uninterrupted coitus), and so they ridicule others, or have self-issues because of the idea that they are doing something wrong. I do not know a single person who has managed to have uninterrupted coitus for 40 minutes...heck, the ACTUAL average time for coitus ranges from FIVE TO 8 MINUTES, and there a bunch of people going around saying that a "quickie" should last 10. Sex is pretty darn exhausting too, most people are already sweating like pigs after 5 minutes of pouncing. Most porn flicks are shot with multiple takes and breaks and then just pieced together to give the impression that the actors never stopped for over an hour, plus the male actors are swimming in drugs (legal drugs) to keep them from having refractory periods so they can cum and still be hard as a rock. Not to mention the show that the actress put. A guy at my class dumped his girlfriend because she "was not loud enough" during sex so he thought that the girl was not appreciating the sex because she was not a heavy moaner like most pornstars.

That does pisses me off.

And prostitution is illegal because of the other range of illegal activities surrounding it. Most prostitutes are victims of human trafficking.

I think porn also kills the average guys confidence because it leads people to believe that a 12 inch penis is the norm when in reality only like 0.5% of men are that big. I read somewhere that the average guy is like 5 1/2 inches. I don't have that problem lol but look at these dumb infomercials at 3 am offering men a size up.

#78 Posted by lightleggy (16090 posts) -

@ps4hasnogames said:

@lightleggy said:

@geekinkinc said:

All it [pornography ]is is humans interacting in activities that lead to reproduction... nothing wrong with that. How come YouTube doesn't allow it? Pisses me off.

Same with prostitution. If someone wants to "sell" their body, shouldn't they be allowed to without repercussion? Pisses me off.

Same with girls getting with many men and being looked down upon. Sex is enjoyable for everyone at all times most times, why can't everyone enjoy it without guilt? Pisses me off.

Don't these things piss you off too? Gosh.

Pornography spreads (no pun intended) a plethora of fake sex myths/stereotypes that are honestly harmful to society as a whole. Thanks to pornography, there are people out there who believe that every sexual encounter they have should last at least an hour or more or "they can't last for shit" (and I'd clarify that according to porn: maybe 40 of those 60 minutes should be spent in uninterrupted coitus), and so they ridicule others, or have self-issues because of the idea that they are doing something wrong. I do not know a single person who has managed to have uninterrupted coitus for 40 minutes...heck, the ACTUAL average time for coitus ranges from FIVE TO 8 MINUTES, and there a bunch of people going around saying that a "quickie" should last 10. Sex is pretty darn exhausting too, most people are already sweating like pigs after 5 minutes of pouncing. Most porn flicks are shot with multiple takes and breaks and then just pieced together to give the impression that the actors never stopped for over an hour, plus the male actors are swimming in drugs (legal drugs) to keep them from having refractory periods so they can cum and still be hard as a rock. Not to mention the show that the actress put. A guy at my class dumped his girlfriend because she "was not loud enough" during sex so he thought that the girl was not appreciating the sex because she was not a heavy moaner like most pornstars.

That does pisses me off.

And prostitution is illegal because of the other range of illegal activities surrounding it. Most prostitutes are victims of human trafficking.

I think porn also kills the average guys confidence because it leads people to believe that a 12 inch penis is the norm when in reality only like 0.5% of men are that big. I read somewhere that the average guy is like 5 1/2 inches. I don't have that problem lol but look at these dumb infomercials at 3 am offering men a size up.

Yup, that's one of my points. It seriously pisses me off. The average penis size is 12 cm, not 16 or 18 like porn claims. Also unless you have a micropenis (yes thats a thing, a penis smaller than 7 cm) you will be able to please a girl just fine.

Yet most girls go "OH LOL LOOK AT THAT GUY HE HAS A 14CM DICK HAHAHAHA HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH THAT THING?".

Also I once met a girl who thought her BF had premature ejaculation because he came after 8 minutes...I almost slapped her. PE is when you last 30 seconds or 1 minute, 8 minutes is extremely normal for uninterrupted coitus.

#79 Posted by PS4hasNOgames (2485 posts) -

@lightleggy said:

@ps4hasnogames said:

@lightleggy said:

@geekinkinc said:

All it [pornography ]is is humans interacting in activities that lead to reproduction... nothing wrong with that. How come YouTube doesn't allow it? Pisses me off.

Same with prostitution. If someone wants to "sell" their body, shouldn't they be allowed to without repercussion? Pisses me off.

Same with girls getting with many men and being looked down upon. Sex is enjoyable for everyone at all times most times, why can't everyone enjoy it without guilt? Pisses me off.

Don't these things piss you off too? Gosh.

Pornography spreads (no pun intended) a plethora of fake sex myths/stereotypes that are honestly harmful to society as a whole. Thanks to pornography, there are people out there who believe that every sexual encounter they have should last at least an hour or more or "they can't last for shit" (and I'd clarify that according to porn: maybe 40 of those 60 minutes should be spent in uninterrupted coitus), and so they ridicule others, or have self-issues because of the idea that they are doing something wrong. I do not know a single person who has managed to have uninterrupted coitus for 40 minutes...heck, the ACTUAL average time for coitus ranges from FIVE TO 8 MINUTES, and there a bunch of people going around saying that a "quickie" should last 10. Sex is pretty darn exhausting too, most people are already sweating like pigs after 5 minutes of pouncing. Most porn flicks are shot with multiple takes and breaks and then just pieced together to give the impression that the actors never stopped for over an hour, plus the male actors are swimming in drugs (legal drugs) to keep them from having refractory periods so they can cum and still be hard as a rock. Not to mention the show that the actress put. A guy at my class dumped his girlfriend because she "was not loud enough" during sex so he thought that the girl was not appreciating the sex because she was not a heavy moaner like most pornstars.

That does pisses me off.

And prostitution is illegal because of the other range of illegal activities surrounding it. Most prostitutes are victims of human trafficking.

I think porn also kills the average guys confidence because it leads people to believe that a 12 inch penis is the norm when in reality only like 0.5% of men are that big. I read somewhere that the average guy is like 5 1/2 inches. I don't have that problem lol but look at these dumb infomercials at 3 am offering men a size up.

Yup, that's one of my points. It seriously pisses me off. The average penis size is 12 cm, not 16 or 18 like porn claims. Also unless you have a micropenis (yes thats a thing, a penis smaller than 7 cm) you will be able to please a girl just fine.

Yet most girls go "OH LOL LOOK AT THAT GUY HE HAS A 14CM DICK HAHAHAHA HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH THAT THING?".

Also I once met a girl who thought her BF had premature ejaculation because he came after 8 minutes...I almost slapped her. PE is when you last 30 seconds or 1 minute, 8 minutes is extremely normal for uninterrupted coitus.

I'm sorry I'm from america we don't use the metric system lol, but yea I get your point. I guess the key is to go for classy and smart women who know the truth of life, I swear some of these club girls I see when I go out are SO fucking stupid, the trashy things they say is a major turn off...you can tell they were influenced from trashy tv.

#80 Posted by lightleggy (16090 posts) -

@ps4hasnogames said:

@lightleggy said:

@ps4hasnogames said:

@lightleggy said:

@geekinkinc said:

All it [pornography ]is is humans interacting in activities that lead to reproduction... nothing wrong with that. How come YouTube doesn't allow it? Pisses me off.

Same with prostitution. If someone wants to "sell" their body, shouldn't they be allowed to without repercussion? Pisses me off.

Same with girls getting with many men and being looked down upon. Sex is enjoyable for everyone at all times most times, why can't everyone enjoy it without guilt? Pisses me off.

Don't these things piss you off too? Gosh.

Pornography spreads (no pun intended) a plethora of fake sex myths/stereotypes that are honestly harmful to society as a whole. Thanks to pornography, there are people out there who believe that every sexual encounter they have should last at least an hour or more or "they can't last for shit" (and I'd clarify that according to porn: maybe 40 of those 60 minutes should be spent in uninterrupted coitus), and so they ridicule others, or have self-issues because of the idea that they are doing something wrong. I do not know a single person who has managed to have uninterrupted coitus for 40 minutes...heck, the ACTUAL average time for coitus ranges from FIVE TO 8 MINUTES, and there a bunch of people going around saying that a "quickie" should last 10. Sex is pretty darn exhausting too, most people are already sweating like pigs after 5 minutes of pouncing. Most porn flicks are shot with multiple takes and breaks and then just pieced together to give the impression that the actors never stopped for over an hour, plus the male actors are swimming in drugs (legal drugs) to keep them from having refractory periods so they can cum and still be hard as a rock. Not to mention the show that the actress put. A guy at my class dumped his girlfriend because she "was not loud enough" during sex so he thought that the girl was not appreciating the sex because she was not a heavy moaner like most pornstars.

That does pisses me off.

And prostitution is illegal because of the other range of illegal activities surrounding it. Most prostitutes are victims of human trafficking.

I think porn also kills the average guys confidence because it leads people to believe that a 12 inch penis is the norm when in reality only like 0.5% of men are that big. I read somewhere that the average guy is like 5 1/2 inches. I don't have that problem lol but look at these dumb infomercials at 3 am offering men a size up.

Yup, that's one of my points. It seriously pisses me off. The average penis size is 12 cm, not 16 or 18 like porn claims. Also unless you have a micropenis (yes thats a thing, a penis smaller than 7 cm) you will be able to please a girl just fine.

Yet most girls go "OH LOL LOOK AT THAT GUY HE HAS A 14CM DICK HAHAHAHA HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH THAT THING?".

Also I once met a girl who thought her BF had premature ejaculation because he came after 8 minutes...I almost slapped her. PE is when you last 30 seconds or 1 minute, 8 minutes is extremely normal for uninterrupted coitus.

I'm sorry I'm from america we don't use the metric system lol, but yea I get your point. I guess the key is to go for classy and smart women who know the truth of life, I swear some of these club girls I see when I go out are SO fucking stupid, the trashy things they say is a major turn off...you can tell they were influenced from trashy tv.

12 cm is like 4.7 inches.

And really, there aren't many, even "classy girls", most have no idea. I'd rather to go with the ones that don't care.

#81 Edited by DrPhil105 (25 posts) -

I can see a lot of comments arguments have gone into this discussion and will not have enough time in other words cannot be bothered to try refute x amount of points but what I will do is offer and argument with counters to some rejections I expect will be brought up.

I believe porn should not be looked down on and more so after reading this forum can see it is in fact looked down upon.

1. This should not be made a personal matter attacking the person does not bring weight to your argument this is appeal to the person a common argument fallacy.

2. Just because a lot of people look down on porn does not mean it is the right decision. This would be appeal to popularity saying something is merely right because people believe it. For example a lot of people thought the world was round.

3.However what I am not saying is that I will simply disregard these points they do in fact in some cases add weight to the argument but alone are not a strong argument.

4.Free will is universally accepted as a good value to have in society, additionally our background knowledge (moral beliefs etc) help us to believe we are correct in this belief. (I do not think you will disagree with this)

5.Secondly paid porn is an act of free will, obviously money influences what people will do e.g soft to hardcore porn but ultimately it is what these people want to do.

6.so in this matter (the matter of freewill) I think we can agree we endorse porn

7.Another reason commonly offered seems to be that porn is unhygienic (obviously people against porn for this reason believe it is unhygienic to a unhealthy degree or this would just be a negligible premise) but in the large majority of cases porn is hygienic to a healthy degree in our modern day era with the enhancement in health regulations, condoms used to be a big problem hardly being worn (STDs etc.) but now they are worn almost always if they are not this is a break in regulations and the porn star should address this. You may come forth with some stats saying condoms aren't worn x% of the time x amount of porn stars get STDs but the fact remains these stats are skewed from when porn was far less "controlled" (primarily condom rules). In conclusion porn is healthy enough that we should not condemn it for this reason.

8.I will just stop here and mention I am not dividing and conquering your guys arguments against porn as it may seem. I believe that with these premise made as weak as I do that is if you agree with my reasoning put collectively together they will not amply support that porn should be looked down upon.

9.I read that porn kills guys confidence as a reason to look down on porn because it misleads them to believe there penis is small. I doubt there is a direct causation between confidence and penis size and was unable to find a valid survey etc. proving this beyond reasonable doubt. I f you could find this I will be happy to remove this point. But even if we assume this is the case it is our choice wherever our confidence is blown by this factor especially to any degree that may have a tenable impact on our lives. In conclusion I don't believe that porn is dropping our confidence, probably.

10.I see the comparisons of porn to prostitution(A), janitors(B) which are intuitively either looked down upon in the case of prostitution and in the case of a janitor a job the majority of society doesn't want to have. I believe these are cases of faulty analogies a common fallacy in philosophical argument where A and B are not sufficiently relevant to porn in the way that will support your guys arguments. Furthermore they have relevant differences. For example i will show this with prostitution. Differences, girls in prostitution often don't have there free will in a desperate situation and/or have a pimp forcing them to prostitute, drugs is often a reason they go into this bossiness. I do not deny that people may be desperate for finances or under the influence of a drug addiction when they do porn but relatively speaking this is far more prominent in the case of prostitution at least to our knowledge. But the main point i want to make is that prostitution is far less safe for there is nobody else around to ensure that the prostitute male or female is not being abused forced into something they find uncomfortable. In conclusion relating the porn industry to situation A and B is a fallacious approach and therefore a bad argument.

11. I see someone offered the fact that porn creates unfair stereotypes on how sex should be. This is in fact true but the fact that both me and you are aware of this at least shows that there are people informed about these false stereotypes. I don't believe this outweighs a persons free will and means to make an income, do what they enjoy. I think rather society should endorse programs to educate people about how sex really is rather then condemn some people trying to have a good time, perhaps there livelihood and most importantly ability to follow there free will.

12. this premise based on what goes on behind closed doors seems ridiculous to me, how do people know what goes on behind closed doors they are closed after all. If there has be some sort of leak I mean its possible whose to say this happens often. This being supposed negative behaviors that go on behind the porn industry I do not discount the possibility. But I do know we have no hard evidence that it occurs frequently, wherever or not these people could just leave. Obviously this would be an unfair burden to place on them but occasions do pop up in life where unfair burdens are placed on us in society and on the rare occasion we must make the extra effort to ensure we come off alright in the situation.The porn industry does not endorse these supposed closed door behaviors why should we look down upon them. If a lot of army men were p.e addicts (I mean in today's era where it is now illegal) should we blame the army for not preventing this. For placing unfair burdens on the workers. I mean that's possible but the point remains that to the best of our knowledge they do not do this to there workers. If they did I would be condemning them with you but we have little to no evidence of this. What we do have evidence of is that many porn stars enjoy there jobs and are not mistreated.

Porn is a matter of free will, many find it entertaining, it is a source of employment and income for many. In conclusion the reasons to not look down on porn far outweigh the reasons to. If you think of a point you believe might refute this argument please let me know im sure I missed a lot after all im only human. I believe the reason why it is looked down upon by the apparent majority is a combination of believing something because it has been believed for a long time, people joining this side for matters of social desirability as the very argument says it is not socially desirable not because they have thought critically and actually weighed up the premises behind each side. I urge you to not look at this argument and think from the get go that it is wrong and only look for reasons why its wrong but rather take a two sided approach evaluate each premise think of arguments for both sides and try to come to the right conclusion.

Thanks guys hope I added some insight to this forum.

#82 Posted by Iszdope (11738 posts) -

Dr Phil needs therapy.

Ooh, and English lessons.

Fuck me.

#83 Posted by The_Last_Ride (75068 posts) -

@IMAHAPYHIPPO said:

Women in porn are treated despicably. If I could, I'd take the entire industry down.

I'd like to know where you have your facts on that