Why do countries like Sweden and Italy have low birth rates?

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#1 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

With all the hot women in those countries, you'd think the guys would be banging them like crazy.

inb4 they're all just using contraceptives

I'm sure dudes would want to have long term relationships and kids with such good looking women, yes?

#2 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
Cost of living.
#3 Posted by Shottayouth13- (6808 posts) -
Children are more expensive than condoms. Swedes realize this.
#4 Posted by Fightingfan (38011 posts) -
They don't raw dog every hoe on craiglist and backpages.
#5 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -
[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]Children are more expensive than condoms. Swedes realize this.

LOL good point, man. :P I remembering reading that nowadays in the US, it costs $230,000 to raise one child. That kinda turns me off from having a kid. Not to mention they're gross and annoying.
#6 Posted by Alter_Echo (10722 posts) -

Because like America a lot of people can't afford to have children. The difference over there is that people are actually smart enough to know this.

#7 Posted by Shottayouth13- (6808 posts) -
[QUOTE="gamerguru100"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]Children are more expensive than condoms. Swedes realize this.

LOL good point, man. :P I remembering reading that nowadays in the US, it costs $230,000 to raise one child. That kinda turns me off from having a kid. Not to mention they're gross and annoying.

It's really ridiculous just how expensive children can be.
#8 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -
[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="gamerguru100"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]Children are more expensive than condoms. Swedes realize this.

LOL good point, man. :P I remembering reading that nowadays in the US, it costs $230,000 to raise one child. That kinda turns me off from having a kid. Not to mention they're gross and annoying.

It's really ridiculous just how expensive children can be.

I heard girls are worse. Is it true? Wouldn't surprise me. All the makeup and what not they go through once they reach adolescence. Plus they want a f*ck ton of shoes and clothes and blah blah blah. :P
#9 Posted by PernicioEnigma (5387 posts) -
Based on my observations, it's the ugly people who procreate more often.
#10 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -
Based on my observations, it's the ugly people who procreate more often. PernicioEnigma
Indeed. All the rednecks in Appalachia have five kids running around while yuppies in the cities are all childless.
#11 Posted by Shottayouth13- (6808 posts) -
[QUOTE="gamerguru100"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="gamerguru100"] LOL good point, man. :P I remembering reading that nowadays in the US, it costs $230,000 to raise one child. That kinda turns me off from having a kid. Not to mention they're gross and annoying.

It's really ridiculous just how expensive children can be.

I heard girls are worse. Is it true? Wouldn't surprise me. All the makeup and what not they go through once they reach adolescence. Plus they want a f*ck ton of shoes and clothes and blah blah blah. :P

No children yet (not ready for that life yet), but yeah I figure girls are generally more expensive. Always in need of of the latest fashion trends and whatnot.
#12 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
A lot of hot people have the desire to remain hot. Having kids isn't exactly good for the figure.
#13 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -
A lot of hot people have the desire to remain hot. Having kids isn't exactly good for the figure. Ace6301
That is true for the women, yes. :P
#14 Posted by Stesilaus (3369 posts) -

Feminism runs amok in Sweden, to the extent that Swedish men are afraid to ask their wives to bear children for fear of offending their feminist sensibilities ...

Husband: We've been married for three years, honey. Perhaps we should consider bringing a child into the world?

Wife: How dare you suggest such a thing, you conceited, misogynistic prick ! I suppose you expect me to go barefoot in the kitchen too?

:P

#15 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

Feminism runs amok in Sweden, to the extent that Swedish men are afraid to ask their wives to bear children for fear of offending their feminist sensibilities ...

Husband: We've been married for three years, honey. Perhaps we should consider bringing a child into the world?

Wife: How dare you suggest such a thing, you conceited, misogynistic prick ! I suppose you expect me to go barefoot in the kitchen too?

:P

Stesilaus
Wasn't there some campaign going on in Sweden to get men to pee sitting down? I heard that girls were breaking up with their boyfriends who refused to pee sitting down. Girls are just jealous that they can't pee standing up, LOL.
#16 Posted by Ncsoftlover (2111 posts) -

Feminism runs amok in Sweden, to the extent that Swedish men are afraid to ask their wives to bear children for fear of offending their feminist sensibilities ...

Husband: We've been married for three years, honey. Perhaps we should consider bringing a child into the world?

Wife: How dare you suggest such a thing, you conceited, misogynistic prick ! I suppose you expect me to go barefoot in the kitchen too?

:P

Stesilaus

never thought I'd say this, but sometimes, a country can be a little bit too "civilized" to live in...

#17 Posted by wis3boi (31472 posts) -

The higher the standards of living, the lower the birth rate. Hence why countries in Africa multiply like rabbits. THe cost of living is lower, and many kids die young, so they have more. Also helps because the kids can take care of the parents in the poor economies. When you're a wealthy country, one or two kids is enough...or none at all.

#18 Posted by The__Kraken (851 posts) -

Why doesn't every other country have birth rates as low as Sweden and Italy?

Seems like it is better, not having to spend so much money on making stupid kids less stupid than they already are. Not to mention all the other resources these not-currently intelligent beings waste.

#19 Posted by Tezcatlipoca666 (7241 posts) -

Because like America a lot of people can't afford to have children. The difference over there is that people are actually smart enough to know this.

Alter_Echo

This is such a stupid explanation which I keep hearing over and over. Why is it that Africa has such a high birthrate if money is an issue? Why do Muslims in Europe have a high birthrate? Are the Muslims who have many childen stupid? No, the key difference is that they fundamentally reject modern European values.

The reason for the low birthrate is not just one thing but many. Feminism which ruined traditional gender roles and institutions (women told to focus on careers instead of becoming mothers, marriage as prison for women so less marriage, divorce when you're bored of your mate, divorce court favours women so men avoid marriage, etc), easy access to abortion (no social stigma to killing the unborn, don't have to pay for it either), rampant hedomism (why have children when I could spend my money on booze, cars, etc), delays in having children until later years (apparently everyone needs a university degree nowadays; there are no good playing industrial jobs which most men can work at and earn a salary to support a family at a young age), the welfare state means that you will be taken care of when old which means children aren't necessary, and many many more things are the problem.

#20 Posted by Tezcatlipoca666 (7241 posts) -

[QUOTE="Stesilaus"]

Feminism runs amok in Sweden, to the extent that Swedish men are afraid to ask their wives to bear children for fear of offending their feminist sensibilities ...

Husband: We've been married for three years, honey. Perhaps we should consider bringing a child into the world?

Wife: How dare you suggest such a thing, you conceited, misogynistic prick ! I suppose you expect me to go barefoot in the kitchen too?

:P

gamerguru100

Wasn't there some campaign going on in Sweden to get men to pee sitting down? I heard that girls were breaking up with their boyfriends who refused to pee sitting down. Girls are just jealous that they can't pee standing up, LOL.

The Scandinavian countries are suicidal. Oh well, they will all be Islamic in 50 years so the stupid social experiements will end. It's sad to see a once great people go...

#21 Posted by seahorse123 (1228 posts) -
In most cases the more money you have the less children you have or maybe in this case the other way round
#22 Posted by SolidSnake2011- (524 posts) -
they need to bang each other so they can keep on producing hot women with blond hair and blue eyes
#23 Posted by seahorse123 (1228 posts) -
That was inappropriate and not needed -_-
#24 Posted by cheese_game619 (13316 posts) -
the smarter you are the less likely you are to have children swedes are generally smarter than americans
#25 Posted by seahorse123 (1228 posts) -
[QUOTE="cheese_game619"]the smarter you are the less likely you are to have children swedes are generally smarter than americans

Seen the movie idiocracy? it will prove that theory right
#26 Posted by cheese_game619 (13316 posts) -
i have actually
#27 Posted by seahorse123 (1228 posts) -
Funny but true.
#28 Posted by SaudiFury (8707 posts) -

it'll be interesting to see how Japan deals with the it, they're further along then many European countries - where they can offset the effects by having immigration.

the systems we've designed are not based on shrinkage, it's based on maintaining or growing.

Think it's a bit of a cruel irony. the poorer a country is, the more babies they have. the richer it is the fewer there are. Each have their own set of problems.

the arguement of cost of living, doesn't really give me the whole picture i think. people have been having kids in large numbers for centuries even in the most powerful countries (compared to others) in larger numbers then they seem to now. but i don't think people will like what they find out so it's better to just roll with that arguement to answer for everything on the issue.

#29 Posted by Barbariser (6724 posts) -

Children are economically unprofitable for individuals/families even if they are profitable for the nation as a whole. This is due to the existence of social security and the way families work in modern times - children leave, keep most of their earnings for themselves and don't give a good return on investment for their cost of raising, while families that grow old primarily subsist on government programs. Notice how most demographics with high birth rates are either highly religious (thus creating a stronger non-economic incentive to have children), rural and poor (more likely to be in tighter family units) and/or are in regions with very low living standards (low costs).

This effect has already happened to European Americans, but it's generally worse for Europeans and East Asians since their real population densities are much higher than that of the U.S., resulting in relatively higher food and housing prices on less productive populations. They also have a much higher level of sex education on average and their UHC programs give them good access to contraceptives, while the U.S. population suffers from a much higher rate of teen pregnancy that pushes up its crude birth rate.

#30 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

most developed countries have low birthrates , or a fertility rate below replacement levels (with a few exceptions like Ireland or Israel) , and its a ticking time bomb for the future.

the reasons range from a better standards of living , the acceptance of contraceptives , later marriages or no marriages at all etc.

#31 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

most developed countries have low birthrates , or a fertility rate below replacement levels (with a few exceptions like Ireland or Israel) , and its a ticking time bomb for the future.

the reasons range from a better standards of living , the acceptance of contraceptives , later marriages or no marriages at all etc.

Darkman2007

Marriage appears to be going obsolete in the developed world. Here in the US, half of all marriages end in divorce and according to the 2010 Census, only 48% of households are occupied by married couples, which means they are no longer a majority. In 1950, 78% of households were occupied by married couples.

Link for more info

The decline in marriage explains a bit why birth rates are low in developed countries since other ways of living are accepted. The iconic American family of a mom, dad, and two kids is no longer the norm, I guess. Since marriage is partly a religious institution, many heavily religious countries still have high rates of marriage, while the US and Western Europe become more atheist and agnostic, the marriage rate will also go down.

#32 Posted by SaudiFury (8707 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

most developed countries have low birthrates , or a fertility rate below replacement levels (with a few exceptions like Ireland or Israel) , and its a ticking time bomb for the future.

the reasons range from a better standards of living , the acceptance of contraceptives , later marriages or no marriages at all etc.

gamerguru100

Marriage appears to be going obsolete in the developed world. Here in the US, half of all marriages end in divorce and according to the 2010 Census, only 48% of households are occupied by married couples, which means they are no longer a majority. In 1950, 78% of households were occupied by married couples.

Link for more info

The decline in marriage explains a bit why birth rates are low in developed countries since other ways of living are accepted. The iconic American family of a mom, dad, and two kids is no longer the norm, I guess. Since marriage is partly a religious institution, many heavily religious countries still have high rates of marriage, while the US and Western Europe become more atheist and agnostic, the marriage rate will also go down.

yes but does that destine athiest/agnostic societies to exist as nothing more then brief moment in time of hedonism, while leaving the religious as being and continuing to be the inheritors of the Earth?

like the less religious a state is, the higher the development tends to be, and fewer children there are? so is the future then to have nations of small advanced pygmy nations in the midst of huge nations that might not be as far developed as the atheists with vast huge numbers of peoples?

#33 Posted by Lonelynight (30041 posts) -

it'll be interesting to see how Japan deals with the it, they're further along then many European countries - where they can offset the effects by having immigration.

the systems we've designed are not based on shrinkage, it's based on maintaining or growing.

Think it's a bit of a cruel irony. the poorer a country is, the more babies they have. the richer it is the fewer there are. Each have their own set of problems.

the arguement of cost of living, doesn't really give me the whole picture i think. people have been having kids in large numbers for centuries even in the most powerful countries (compared to others) in larger numbers then they seem to now. but i don't think people will like what they find out so it's better to just roll with that arguement to answer for everything on the issue.

SaudiFury

Japans Population Falls by Record in 2012 as Births Decrease Japans population last year declined by 212,000, the biggest drop on record, according to an estimate by the nations health ministry. Thats the largest reduction since the ministry started recording the data in 1947 and a sixth straight year of declines. The number of births fell by 18,000 to a record low of 1.03 million last year, the ministry said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-01/japan-s-population-falls-by-record-in-2012-as-births-decrease.html The Japanese race is going to disappear in the future.
#34 Posted by seahorse123 (1228 posts) -
On average the smarter or richer you are the less children you have which is a worrying thought.... LonelyKnight- I heard about that, men are so worried about their future they don't have time to have kids.
#35 Posted by zenogandia (912 posts) -

That's much better. Most countries that multiply like rabbits are overpopulated. China and the U.S could do a bit better without high birth rates.

#36 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -
after the babyboomers raped the world their kids cant afford to have kids, either that or the people in those nations are fuggly
#37 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -
either that or the people in those nations are fuggly surrealnumber5
Dude, Swedish chicks are hot.
#38 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="gamerguru100"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

most developed countries have low birthrates , or a fertility rate below replacement levels (with a few exceptions like Ireland or Israel) , and its a ticking time bomb for the future.

the reasons range from a better standards of living , the acceptance of contraceptives , later marriages or no marriages at all etc.

SaudiFury

Marriage appears to be going obsolete in the developed world. Here in the US, half of all marriages end in divorce and according to the 2010 Census, only 48% of households are occupied by married couples, which means they are no longer a majority. In 1950, 78% of households were occupied by married couples.

Link for more info

The decline in marriage explains a bit why birth rates are low in developed countries since other ways of living are accepted. The iconic American family of a mom, dad, and two kids is no longer the norm, I guess. Since marriage is partly a religious institution, many heavily religious countries still have high rates of marriage, while the US and Western Europe become more atheist and agnostic, the marriage rate will also go down.

yes but does that destine athiest/agnostic societies to exist as nothing more then brief moment in time of hedonism, while leaving the religious as being and continuing to be the inheritors of the Earth?

like the less religious a state is, the higher the development tends to be, and fewer children there are? so is the future then to have nations of small advanced pygmy nations in the midst of huge nations that might not be as far developed as the atheists with vast huge numbers of peoples?

well, when you think about it, all western civilizations also went through a population explosion during the industrial revolution and the first 3/4 of the 20th century, due to better healthcare and such . you could argue the developing world is experiencing a similar thing, the improvement in healthcare and education , coupled with what are in some places, conservative attitudes towards contraception and marriage, is what is causing this. the other thing is that I don't think marriage is necessarily a religious thing, in some cases its economic (in Israel for instance, the amount of children born to unmarried parents is tiny, maybe around 4% (compared to the 30-50% in most developed countries) , and while some of it is religon and culture, some of it is also economic, since its very difficult to support a family as a single parent, especialy for a woman)
#39 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]either that or the people in those nations are fuggly gamerguru100
Dude, Swedish chicks are hot.

then it must be the first thing, as those are the only two options :P
#40 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

The reason for the low birthrate is not just one thing but many. Feminism which ruined traditional gender roles and institutions (women told to focus on careers instead of becoming mothers, marriage as prison for women so less marriage, divorce when you're bored of your mate, divorce court favours women so men avoid marriage, etc), easy access to abortion (no social stigma to killing the unborn, don't have to pay for it either), rampant hedomism (why have children when I could spend my money on booze, cars, etc), delays in having children until later years (apparently everyone needs a university degree nowadays; there are no good playing industrial jobs which most men can work at and earn a salary to support a family at a young age), the welfare state means that you will be taken care of when old which means children aren't necessary, and many many more things are the problem.

Tezcatlipoca666

Oh wow, what a gem.

1. The norms are changing for a good reason: the traditional norms subordinate women. They also marginalize pretty much anyone who isn't straight, male, and cis (i.e. not transgender). If my sister were to marry someone and have kids right now, her life would be awful. And if it weren't for the critique of gender norms that feminism provides, I would have a much harder time coming out as a transsexual. So I very much welcome the changing of gender norms. As for marriage being a prison for women, it's not like that anymore, but it certainly used to be. It definitely would remain a prison if society decided to stigmatize and restrict the freedom to get a divorce. And I highly doubt that all women are getting divorces for frivolous reasons. By the way, the thing about divorce doesn't really matter anyway because marriage is a very silly idea to begin with. It's not like people can't have kids without marriage.

2. The right to terminate a pregnancy should never be stigmatized. No one has the right to someone's uterus. If you think that forcing a woman to gestate is acceptable, then you might as well have no problem with rape, because both rape and forced gestation are wrong for the same reason.

3. Hedonism is only bad when it involves the unethical treatment of other people.

4. Children will never be deemed wholly unnecessary. They are just valued for slightly different reasons today.

Oh, and a declining birth rate is what the entire world needs.

#41 Posted by Storm_Marine (11145 posts) -

2. The right to terminate a pregnancy should never be stigmatized. No one has the right to someone's uterus. If you think that forcing a woman to gestate is acceptable, then you might as well have no problem with rape, because both rape and forced gestation are wrong for the same reason.

ghoklebutter

LOL

#42 Posted by Storm_Marine (11145 posts) -

Oh, and a declining birth rate is what the entire world needs.

ghoklebutter

Double LOL.

#43 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

Oh, and a declining birth rate is what the entire world needs.

Storm_Marine

Double LOL.

I agree with him that developing nations need to decrease birth rates, but Europe and Japan/South Korea better increase since their economies will go to hell with a 40% 65+ population.
#44 Posted by Storm_Marine (11145 posts) -

Gloklebutter you're just too funny.

#45 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

Oh, and a declining birth rate is what the entire world needs.

Storm_Marine

Double LOL.

Plus the world really doesn't need seven billion people. The Earth doesn't have enough resources for seven billion people to live like Americans and Western Europeans.
#47 Posted by Lonelynight (30041 posts) -
[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

Oh, and a declining birth rate is what the entire world needs.

gamerguru100

Double LOL.

Plus the world really doesn't need seven billion people. The Earth doesn't have enough resources for seven billion people to live like Americans and Western Europeans.

Americans and western europeans need to stop being selfish ****
#48 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -
[QUOTE="gamerguru100"][QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Double LOL.

Lonelynight
Plus the world really doesn't need seven billion people. The Earth doesn't have enough resources for seven billion people to live like Americans and Western Europeans.

Americans and western europeans need to stop being selfish ****

Blame our politicians, not us.
#49 Posted by Lonelynight (30041 posts) -
[QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="gamerguru100"] Plus the world really doesn't need seven billion people. The Earth doesn't have enough resources for seven billion people to live like Americans and Western Europeans. gamerguru100
Americans and western europeans need to stop being selfish ****

Blame our politicians, not us.

Politicians that are elected by the people.
#50 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -
[QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="gamerguru100"][QUOTE="Lonelynight"] Americans and western europeans need to stop being selfish ****

Blame our politicians, not us.

Politicians that are elected by the people.

We don't control their actions though. Politicians give false promises and act only in their own interest. We either elect politicians for the best or go to full blown anarchy. F*ck, we're headed that way anyway.