What Should Be Done to Improve America?

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#51 Posted by indzman (20394 posts) -

Isn't US already much improved, richer, advance country compared to other counties? =P

#52 Edited by TheWalkingGhost (5503 posts) -

Religion is NOT a huge problem in America. Greed of all kinds is, that is what is driving so many problems. Our health care system sucks because of greed, there is no profit in a cure but rather treatment; hence all cures will be suppressed. Greed for power is what is driving our immigration policies, more people equals more votes for whoever gave them amnesty. Greed for power and money, once you set up a system that can deal with that then 99% of problems will vanish as the government will work out of our best interest instead of their own selfish greed. FYI, the greed for money is blocking progress as they take bribes.

Not religion, greed. Once greed is gone or at least controlled progress can be made. Like unifying the populace instead of segregating them, making health care non-profit and universal, investing in infrastructure, renewable energy and a sane immigration policy.

#53 Posted by Iszdope (11910 posts) -

Legalize it.

#54 Edited by Shottayouth13- (6884 posts) -

@agentzerp said:

Please bear with me. I know it might sound crazy at first, but it makes sense.

Bring back segregation. Wait! I know what you are thinking. Do not worry, I am not a racist. I have a lot of black and mexican friends. It's just a lot of people out there are racist. Not just white people. Black people hate white people. Brown people hate black people. It is a never ending cycle of hate.

And I know you want to remove any negative thoughts, but I just don't have hope that the masses can learn to love each other. You can't talk about how to improve something unless you acknowledge it has faults. And the fault of America is that as a group we are bigots and we are fueled by hate, not love. The only way to change that would be to completely tear America apart and rebuild it. But then it wouldn't be America anymore.

So instead of totally destroying AMERICA, we just break it into smaller, equal pieces. If everyone was separated, I think violence would go down a lot. We wouldn't have a situation like we do in Ferguson right now.

Thank you for your time.

This is the worst idea I have ever heard, and believe me, I have heard plenty.

#55 Posted by airshocker (31408 posts) -

@KHAndAnime said:

@airshocker said:

@KHAndAnime said:

Tax system needs to be completely reworked. Tax loopholes for big businesses need to be removed. Tax incentives shouldn't encourage lifestyle changes (probably should be removed too). Instead of funding a "God help us all" military capable of taking on the entirety of the planet, we should focus on spending money efficiently. One less bomb bought could build multiple schools.

Less imperialism. Less pretending that we live in a democratic society, and pretending that democracy is inherently good and needs to be spread to every corner of the Earth. All faith-charged political debates should automatically succumb to secularism (like abortion), logic, and freedom - rather than forcing all of America to adhere to the values of the Christian faith.

What about basic human rights? Doesn't all of humanity deserve them?

What are basic human rights? What am I suggesting that of which violates these rights?

You know what basic human rights are. Do you believe people have basic human rights? If so, then democracy is the single best vehicle for spreading those rights. You said "...pretending that democracy is inherently good and needs to be spread to every corner of the Earth." Well, if you believe people do in fact have basic human rights you should be supporting the spread of democracy across the world.

Sure there COULD be other types of government that also provide basic human rights. There have been benevolent dictators in the past. There have also been horrible tyrants in the past. The point is, nothing is as sure as democracy at spreading human rights.

#56 Posted by l34052 (3373 posts) -

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

@BranKetra said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

Remove Obama.

Why, exactly?

His immigration policies suck ass.

His foreign policies suck ass.

His economic policies suck ass.

His energy policies suck ass.

His blatant disregard for the constitution sucks ass.

Aint that every president though???

#57 Posted by fueled-system (6361 posts) -

@l34052 said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

@BranKetra said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

Remove Obama.

Why, exactly?

His immigration policies suck ass.

His foreign policies suck ass.

His economic policies suck ass.

His energy policies suck ass.

His blatant disregard for the constitution sucks ass.

Aint that every president though???

Clinton wasn't bad nor was Reagan

#58 Edited by foxhound_fox (91387 posts) -

The first and foremost problem that should be eliminated is cut military spending dramatically (by greater than 50% to start) and invest that money into science research (the US is falling behind the rest of the civilized world in this area), education (not just providing the bare minimum) and medical care (by trying at the very least to provide a more efficient system that doesn't cost more than countries with free healthcare, so that the low income citizenry can afford it).

The second problem would to be start taxing the uber-rich and auditing their off-shore holdings. I'm sure the revenue from a flat tax rate alone (on everyone, based on percentage of income), combined with the taxes from those who hold the top percentage of the country's wealth, could pay for almost anything the country needs.

The third, and while I listed it last, I think is the most important problem to solve, is start subsidizing healthy food (i.e. fresh vegetables) so that low income families aren't forced to buy pop and chips instead of milk and apples for their children, and thus end the substantial cost of healthcare that obesity and diabetes is burdening the nation with. Also, end corn subsidization. FFS

EDIT: Oh yes, and the fourth issue that needs to be ended, is to boot religion out of the state and public schools. It is infiltrating at an alarming rate and causing the future generations of Americans to grow up fantastically more stupid than those past. Even children in private Catholic schools get a proper science education these days.

Another good revenue booster would be to end the tax-free status of churches and let them survive on their own.

#59 Posted by JimB (426 posts) -

@TheFlush: Then politics could be completely corrupt.

#60 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -

@l34052 said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

@BranKetra said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

Remove Obama.

Why, exactly?

His immigration policies suck ass.

His foreign policies suck ass.

His economic policies suck ass.

His energy policies suck ass.

His blatant disregard for the constitution sucks ass.

Aint that every president though???

No.

#61 Posted by indzman (20394 posts) -

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

@l34052 said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

@BranKetra said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

Remove Obama.

Why, exactly?

His immigration policies suck ass.

His foreign policies suck ass.

His economic policies suck ass.

His energy policies suck ass.

His blatant disregard for the constitution sucks ass.

Aint that every president though???

No.

I read different on online articles, many prefer Obama over other presidents ( Example: working on good relations /foreign policies with other countries ). Can't say whether your version is true or their version wrong as i'm not american myself :)

#62 Posted by seahorse123 (1237 posts) -

@dave123321:

Global warming- No such thing

Get rid of coperate slavery- Agreed as we are all in it

Make race blind policies in disbursement of federal loans- Agreed

Prevent people from being mean in debates- Getting rid of mainstream globalist media will help that

#63 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -

@indzman said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

@l34052 said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

@BranKetra said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

Remove Obama.

Why, exactly?

His immigration policies suck ass.

His foreign policies suck ass.

His economic policies suck ass.

His energy policies suck ass.

His blatant disregard for the constitution sucks ass.

Aint that every president though???

No.

I read different on online articles, many prefer Obama over other presidents ( Example: working on good relations /foreign policies with other countries ). Can't say whether your version is true or their version wrong as i'm not american myself :)

Well Obama does have the media riding his nuts, so it is no surprise you would find those types of articles.

#64 Posted by BranKetra (50385 posts) -
@kenocratic said:

I'm glad I read all the way through the first post because I caught the last thing about putting some national issues to a public vote. If only that could happen to resolve some problems. But that may be one of the most difficult new rules/laws to put into place.

Thematically, the well-being of the nation was my focus there. Letting things deteriorate for over three hundred million citizens and more if you count everyone we influence because less than one thousand individuals are willing is odd. I feel that the common citizen should be able to influence the government more.

#65 Posted by TheFlush (5704 posts) -

@JimB said:

@TheFlush: Then politics could be completely corrupt.

why?

#66 Posted by YearoftheSnake5 (8505 posts) -
  • Reduce military spending. Close most overseas bases with a few exceptions, such as South Korea and Japan.
  • Reform the government contract system. If a contractor fails to meet deadlines, confiscate their work, temporarily bar them from future contracts, and get a new contractor to take over. If they can't deliver on time and do what they're supposed to do when they're supposed to do it, they don't deserve contracts.
  • Invest in America's infrastructure. Research a viable non-oil based asphalt equivalent for roads. Get coal power plants outfitted with carbon capture tech. Develop and implement more solar technology.
  • Balance the budget.
  • Work to improve the quality of life of other countries in the south, such as Honduras, to reduce illegal immigration while improving trade relations.
  • Invest more in NASA.
  • Reform the election system by having everyone on the same ticket. No party primaries. The top three who receive the most votes go to the final round regardless of their affiliation.

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

#67 Edited by Motokid6 (6487 posts) -

I said this before and I'll just keep saying it because it is the ultimate solution to this countries apathy. The space program... NASA. Give. Them. More. Money.

A healthy, prosperous space program would pick this country out of its downward spiral by first and foremost.. inspiring people. Turning on CNN and seeing what's happening with humans in space instead of death and destruction would do wonders for morale and patriotism.

So if we can give NASA even half the budget percentage they had with Apollo they would really be able to BUILD. Right now NASAs progress is little to none. There developing the Orion crew capsule. And in December theres to be a high energy reentry to test it's hestshields on a dummy craft. After that... Who the hell knows. Thats bullshit. It should be at the minimum annual crewed launches.

America needs to go back to space. Wether it's back to the Moon, Mars direct or an Asteroid ( which is most likely ) The amount of infrastructure needed to build things at Apollos pace would generate an amazing amount of jobs and opportunities. And with the right publicity would do wonders for the economy.

And a good economy means a happy country. Thats all in a very vague nutshell. But imo that is the ultimate solution.

And to add to that. Kids. We need to inspire kids to be engineers, scientists and mathematicians. Something this country actually NEEDS. We don't need more fake, bullshit entertainers and athletes.

#69 Posted by BranKetra (50385 posts) -

@aebghdfsc: Okay. Take a break. All your blatant trolling must come to a halt.

#70 Edited by seahorse123 (1237 posts) -

Such a shame people don't know what is really ruining America

#71 Posted by dave123321 (34484 posts) -

Other ideas:

Reform education

Have a single payer healthcare system

Address exploitive tax loopholes

#72 Edited by thegerg (16405 posts) -

Easier access to abortion and birth control, incentivize private space programs rather than NASA, encourage investment in small business, reduction in size of federal government, improvements to the VA system, do away with the ACA and implement healthcare systems and legislation that makes sense, improve primary education systems.

#73 Posted by thegerg (16405 posts) -

@seahorse123 said:

Such a shame people don't know what is really ruining America

Is it the "globalists"?

#74 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

America needs to rediscover god

we are without god and look at the results

bran will you join me in prayer?

#75 Posted by LexLas (4904 posts) -

I think we should send all the homeless to a cool place like Alcatraz. Feed them, and rehabilitate them, and when they are ready for work, or society again. Let them try.

#76 Posted by Motokid6 (6487 posts) -

@thegerg:

"Incentivize private space programs rather than NASA"

Already happening with SpaceX to take over operations in low Earth orbit. NASA is needed for handling more ambitious projects.

#77 Edited by thegerg (16405 posts) -

@Motokid6 said:

@thegerg:

"Incentivize private space programs rather than NASA"

Already happening with SpaceX to take over operations in low Earth orbit. NASA is needed for handling more ambitious projects.

"Already happening with SpaceX to take over operations in low Earth orbit."

Right, and projects like this should be further incentivized.

"NASA is needed for handling more ambitious projects."

I'm not sure about that. (At least not with NASA playing the role that is has historically.)

#78 Posted by BranKetra (50385 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

America needs to rediscover god

we are without god and look at the results

bran will you join me in prayer?

That depends on which god you are praying to.

#79 Edited by Motokid6 (6487 posts) -

@thegerg:

One company alone cannot handle something like sending humans beyond LEO. NASA contracts out many, many companies and organizations to build and operate their craft. Which is why it's relevant to this topic. NASA can put people to work.

It's all moot anyways. That IS what's happening. All current private industries more or less have their eyes set on LEO. And NASA on beyond LEO. ( although Google may get into the game in the future with their LunarX prize. ) The hardware is already being constructed. It's just if they had more money they could work faster and make actual progress before the next election.

Major progress needs to be made within one presidency so that when the next one comes in its too far along to be cancelled. Its what happened to the Constellation program. Bush started it. But because they had jack shit for funds the project moved at a snails pace and Obama crushed it. ..that.. fucker...

#80 Edited by TheWalkingGhost (5503 posts) -
@foxhound_fox said:

The first and foremost problem that should be eliminated is cut military spending dramatically (by greater than 50% to start) and invest that money into science research (the US is falling behind the rest of the civilized world in this area), education (not just providing the bare minimum) and medical care (by trying at the very least to provide a more efficient system that doesn't cost more than countries with free healthcare, so that the low income citizenry can afford it).

The second problem would to be start taxing the uber-rich and auditing their off-shore holdings. I'm sure the revenue from a flat tax rate alone (on everyone, based on percentage of income), combined with the taxes from those who hold the top percentage of the country's wealth, could pay for almost anything the country needs.

The third, and while I listed it last, I think is the most important problem to solve, is start subsidizing healthy food (i.e. fresh vegetables) so that low income families aren't forced to buy pop and chips instead of milk and apples for their children, and thus end the substantial cost of healthcare that obesity and diabetes is burdening the nation with. Also, end corn subsidization. FFS

EDIT: Oh yes, and the fourth issue that needs to be ended, is to boot religion out of the state and public schools. It is infiltrating at an alarming rate and causing the future generations of Americans to grow up fantastically more stupid than those past. Even children in private Catholic schools get a proper science education these days.

Another good revenue booster would be to end the tax-free status of churches and let them survive on their own.

1. No. Things like Isis and Russia indicate the US needs a strong military, unless you think the UN in just going to magically not suck. The US still outputs a large amount of science compared to other nations and our health care system provides the best care in the world, it is just to expensive. Cutting defense spending won't solve this as money isn't the problem elsewhere, it's other things, like how it is spent and frivolous lawsuits. Not a black and white issue.

2. Yeah right, tax them too much and capital flees. You have to be careful as they are already leaving.

3. Water and Apples are not expensive, Water is 99 cents a gallon here, Soda is $1.18 per 1.25 liters. Apples at best are .99 cents a pound, costs is not the reason sometimes it's just plain bad habits. Costs could be better, but with raising wages and environmental and political problems (China) that won't happen.

4. Separation of church and state, and you contradicted yourself with the catholic school thing. Religion is NOT causing the problems in schools, it's just an easy scapegoat. Atheist kids can and some cases are just as dumb as any religious kid... sometimes more so. A broader perspective is needed. not easy answers and scapegoats.

5. Never mind that what you suggested is grossly unconstitutional. That whole separation of church and state thing, the state staying out of the affairs of the church and vice versa. Charging them taxes is unconstitutional.

#81 Posted by BranKetra (50385 posts) -

@indzman said:

Isn't US already much improved, richer, advance country compared to other counties? =P

The United States nonetheless faces its own trials each day.

#82 Posted by dave123321 (34484 posts) -

Perhaps setting up more town meetings with the citizens and power.

Like maybe we can start here on OT as an example. Gather the mods in a thread and have a dialogue about the future of OT. Afterwards we can use that as an experience to fuel dialogue with local leaders.

#83 Edited by airshocker (31408 posts) -

@dave123321 said:

Perhaps setting up more town meetings with the citizens and power.

The founders intended for most political discourse to happen at the state and local level where each citizen could be better heard.

There is a reason that Congress doesn't work every single day of the year. It wasn't meant to. It was only supposed to congress(pun fully intended) when it was needed. The states are supposed to take action to fix their own issues.

#84 Edited by BranKetra (50385 posts) -

@dave123321 said:

Perhaps setting up more town meetings with the citizens and power.

Like maybe we can start here on OT as an example. Gather the mods in a thread and have a dialogue about the future of OT. Afterwards we can use that as an experience to fuel dialogue with local leaders.

Although that is not a bad idea, it would be some mods rather than all of us because there are a number of us frequent particular parts of GameSpot other than Off-Topic. Also, that discussion would be better suited to the Bug Reporting & Feedback Forum. We discussed site issues on OT in the past because that forum did not exist, but it does, now. I recommend we go there for it, if anywhere.

#85 Edited by Serraph105 (28759 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@dave123321 said:

Perhaps setting up more town meetings with the citizens and power.

The founders intended for most political discourse to happen at the state and local level where each citizen could be better heard.

There is a reason that Congress doesn't work every single day of the year. It wasn't meant to. It was only supposed to congress(pun fully intended) when it was needed. The states are supposed to take action to fix their own issues.

So you must be ecstatic about this current do nothing congress I take it. Were the Bush and Reagan days the bad days?

#86 Posted by toast_burner (22951 posts) -

@TheWalkingGhost said:
@foxhound_fox said:

The first and foremost problem that should be eliminated is cut military spending dramatically (by greater than 50% to start) and invest that money into science research (the US is falling behind the rest of the civilized world in this area), education (not just providing the bare minimum) and medical care (by trying at the very least to provide a more efficient system that doesn't cost more than countries with free healthcare, so that the low income citizenry can afford it).

The second problem would to be start taxing the uber-rich and auditing their off-shore holdings. I'm sure the revenue from a flat tax rate alone (on everyone, based on percentage of income), combined with the taxes from those who hold the top percentage of the country's wealth, could pay for almost anything the country needs.

The third, and while I listed it last, I think is the most important problem to solve, is start subsidizing healthy food (i.e. fresh vegetables) so that low income families aren't forced to buy pop and chips instead of milk and apples for their children, and thus end the substantial cost of healthcare that obesity and diabetes is burdening the nation with. Also, end corn subsidization. FFS

EDIT: Oh yes, and the fourth issue that needs to be ended, is to boot religion out of the state and public schools. It is infiltrating at an alarming rate and causing the future generations of Americans to grow up fantastically more stupid than those past. Even children in private Catholic schools get a proper science education these days.

Another good revenue booster would be to end the tax-free status of churches and let them survive on their own.

1. No. Things like Isis and Russia indicate the US needs a strong military, unless you think the UN in just going to magically not suck. The US still outputs a large amount of science compared to other nations and our health care system provides the best care in the world, it is just to expensive. Cutting defense spending won't solve this as money isn't the problem elsewhere, it's other things, like how it is spent and frivolous lawsuits. Not a black and white issue.

2. Yeah right, tax them too much and capital flees. You have to be careful as they are already leaving.

3. Water and Apples are not expensive, Water is 99 cents a gallon here, Soda is $1.18 per 1.25 liters. Apples at best are .99 cents a pound, costs is not the reason sometimes it's just plain bad habits. Costs could be better, but with raising wages and environmental and political problems (China) that won't happen.

4. Separation of church and state, and you contradicted yourself with the catholic school thing. Religion is NOT causing the problems in schools, it's just an easy scapegoat. Atheist kids can and some cases are just as dumb as any religious kid... sometimes more so. A broader perspective is needed. not easy answers and scapegoats.

5. Never mind that what you suggested is grossly unconstitutional. That whole separation of church and state thing, the state staying out of the affairs of the church and vice versa. Charging them taxes is unconstitutional.

You clearly don't know what separation of church and state means.

Religion is definitely holding back education. Some schools still teach creationism as an alternative to evolution.

#88 Posted by airshocker (31408 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

@dave123321 said:

Perhaps setting up more town meetings with the citizens and power.

The founders intended for most political discourse to happen at the state and local level where each citizen could be better heard.

There is a reason that Congress doesn't work every single day of the year. It wasn't meant to. It was only supposed to congress(pun fully intended) when it was needed. The states are supposed to take action to fix their own issues.

So you must be ecstatic about this current do nothing congress I take it. Were the Bush and Reagan days the bad days?

I'm not sure how you even came to that conclusion.

#89 Posted by toast_burner (22951 posts) -

The US needs a universal healthcare system. The fact that they're paying more than any other country in the world yet have one of the worst in the developed world is absolutely ridiculous.

#90 Posted by Serraph105 (28759 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

@dave123321 said:

Perhaps setting up more town meetings with the citizens and power.

The founders intended for most political discourse to happen at the state and local level where each citizen could be better heard.

There is a reason that Congress doesn't work every single day of the year. It wasn't meant to. It was only supposed to congress(pun fully intended) when it was needed. The states are supposed to take action to fix their own issues.

So you must be ecstatic about this current do nothing congress I take it. Were the Bush and Reagan days the bad days?

I'm not sure how you even came to that conclusion.

Well the Congress met more often, they passed more bills, they even spent more time together while not in session, and there was far less political discourse. In essence they were likely doing a whole lot whether they were strictly needed at the time or not and thus not living up to the founders original intentions.

#91 Posted by Serraph105 (28759 posts) -

@airshocker: I might be totally off, but your post suggests that you don't appreciate when Congress works together in some form of harmony because the founders intended for the opposite to be the case. With the opposite of harmony being very much the case in Washington's current reality I suspect you would be satisfied where as you were dissatisfied (or at the least less satisfied) with earlier congresses that showed a greater willingness to work together regardless of party affiliation.

#92 Posted by airshocker (31408 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

@dave123321 said:

Perhaps setting up more town meetings with the citizens and power.

The founders intended for most political discourse to happen at the state and local level where each citizen could be better heard.

There is a reason that Congress doesn't work every single day of the year. It wasn't meant to. It was only supposed to congress(pun fully intended) when it was needed. The states are supposed to take action to fix their own issues.

So you must be ecstatic about this current do nothing congress I take it. Were the Bush and Reagan days the bad days?

I'm not sure how you even came to that conclusion.

Well the Congress met more often, they passed more bills, they even spent more time together while not in session, and there was far less political discourse. In essence they were likely doing a whole lot whether they were strictly needed at the time or not and thus not living up to the founders original intentions.

So you were just trying to be a dick when you said this: "So you must be ecstatic about this current do nothing congress I take it." Considering nothing I said could be construed to mean that.

I'm also pretty sure Congress became a shell of its former self long before Reagan. The fact of the matter is that being in Congress was supposed to be a civic duty, not a well-paying job. The sooner we get back to those ideals, the better. Term limits, huge pay cuts, forfeiture of pensions, the whole nine yards.

#93 Edited by Aljosa23 (26410 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@dave123321 said:

Perhaps setting up more town meetings with the citizens and power.

The founders intended for most political discourse to happen at the state and local level where each citizen could be better heard.

There is a reason that Congress doesn't work every single day of the year. It wasn't meant to. It was only supposed to congress(pun fully intended) when it was needed. The states are supposed to take action to fix their own issues.

Just wondering but why does it matter what the founders intended? Even if what you're saying is true. It's been over 240 years, I don't think anyone should take their word as infallible anymore. The world is too different.

#94 Posted by airshocker (31408 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker: I might be totally off, but your post suggests that you don't appreciate when Congress works together in some form of harmony because the founders intended for the opposite to be the case. With the opposite of harmony being very much the case in Washington's current reality I suspect you would be satisfied where as you were dissatisfied (or at the least less satisfied) with earlier congresses that showed a greater willingness to work together regardless of party affiliation.

You are completely off. I don't know what you were reading but nothing in my post says I appreciate a do-nothing Congress. I appreciate a Congress that doesn't have to meet so much because they can actually get work done. That would end up saving us money and maybe restore a little bit of credibility to the institution. It would also give the states more power, which I am for.

#95 Posted by airshocker (31408 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

Just wondering but why does it matter what the founders intended? Even if what you're saying is true. It's been over 240 years, I don't think anyone should take their word as infallible anymore. The world is too different.

I don't believe that the people who created one of the most important and intelligent documents known to man should have their ideals tossed to the wind as casually as some people like to do.

Also, you're not even responding to what I've suggested. You're merely taking issue with the parties I'm using as sources. That's kind of stupid.

#96 Posted by Aljosa23 (26410 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Aljosa23 said:

Just wondering but why does it matter what the founders intended? Even if what you're saying is true. It's been over 240 years, I don't think anyone should take their word as infallible anymore. The world is too different.

I don't believe that the people who created one of the most important and intelligent documents known to man should have their ideals tossed to the wind as casually as some people like to do.

Also, you're not even responding to what I've suggested. You're merely taking issue with the parties I'm using as sources. That's kind of stupid.

Well I agree with what you said I was just curious as to why you're invoking the founding fathers rather than letting the idea stand on its own. Also, those man didn't even follow their own ideals, so it's fair to say others following them shouldn't be the be all end all.

#97 Posted by toast_burner (22951 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Aljosa23 said:

Just wondering but why does it matter what the founders intended? Even if what you're saying is true. It's been over 240 years, I don't think anyone should take their word as infallible anymore. The world is too different.

I don't believe that the people who created one of the most important and intelligent documents known to man should have their ideals tossed to the wind as casually as some people like to do.

Also, you're not even responding to what I've suggested. You're merely taking issue with the parties I'm using as sources. That's kind of stupid.

So because it's historically important that means it should be seen s infallible despite being hundreds of years out of date?

What makes you think the founding fathers intended it to be used like this for this long?

#98 Edited by Serraph105 (28759 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

@dave123321 said:

Perhaps setting up more town meetings with the citizens and power.

The founders intended for most political discourse to happen at the state and local level where each citizen could be better heard.

There is a reason that Congress doesn't work every single day of the year. It wasn't meant to. It was only supposed to congress(pun fully intended) when it was needed. The states are supposed to take action to fix their own issues.

So you must be ecstatic about this current do nothing congress I take it. Were the Bush and Reagan days the bad days?

I'm not sure how you even came to that conclusion.

Well the Congress met more often, they passed more bills, they even spent more time together while not in session, and there was far less political discourse. In essence they were likely doing a whole lot whether they were strictly needed at the time or not and thus not living up to the founders original intentions.

So you were just trying to be a dick when you said this: "So you must be ecstatic about this current do nothing congress I take it." Considering nothing I said could be construed to mean that.

I'm also pretty sure Congress became a shell of its former self long before Reagan. The fact of the matter is that being in Congress was supposed to be a civic duty, not a well-paying job. The sooner we get back to those ideals, the better. Term limits, huge pay cuts, forfeiture of pensions, the whole nine yards.

I really wasn't trying to be a dick. It just seemed like, according to your comment, that you believe the founders didn't intend to be in session very often and Congress spends less time in DC these days than it used to, unless you count pro forma sessions (in which case they are always in session despite not really being there). Also that the founders wanted the Congress to do less and let the states do more. Currently Congress has let states legalize weed in a couple of places, chip away at abortion rights, combat unionization in the work place, increase minimum wage in various states, etc. Meanwhile Congress has passed a record low number of bills due to massive political discourse, and hell they even shut down for a while.

I'm fully aware that you don't like Obama or the fact that Senate currently has a majority of democrats, but the current makeup as a whole is absolutely accomplishing the things you mentioned above which you say the founders intended.

I'm all for pay cuts for congress by the way.

#99 Posted by PSP107 (12567 posts) -

Free Education should extend from K-12 to College.

#100 Posted by airshocker (31408 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

I really wasn't trying to be a dick. It just seemed like, according to your comment, that you believe the founders didn't intend to be in session very often and Congress spends less time in DC these days than it used to, unless you count pro forma sessions (in which case they are always in session despite not really being there). Also that the founders wanted the Congress to do less and let the states do more. Currently Congress has let states legalize weed in a couple of places, chip away at abortion rights, combat unionization in the work place, increase minimum wage in various states, etc. Meanwhile Congress has passed a record low number of bills due to massive political discourse, and hell they even shut down for a while.

I'm fully aware that you don't like Obama or the fact that Senate currently has a majority of democrats, but the current makeup as a whole is absolutely accomplishing the things you mentioned above which you say the founders intended.

I'm all for pay cuts for congress by the way.

They didn't intend for them to be in congress very often. Obviously that can't be the case now because we live in such a fast-paced society, but we can definitely take steps to ensure that the job is more of a duty rather than a golden ticket. Pay cuts, term limits, barring them from investing while serving, a reasonable pension for long service. Those are all things we can do to ensure these people actually work for the betterment on the country and not just themselves.