What is your feeling toward the US Government?

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#1 Posted by Diablo-B (4022 posts) -

A lot has been going back and forth lately about the various laws and actions that the gov't has taken or is trying to take. We are very divided, left vs right, and people are very passionate, it seems, for their position. One issue at the forefront as of late is the 2nd amendment whish states:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This law can be interpreted many ways but today many gun advocates interpret it to mean that citizens have the right to own guns to fight against the US gov't. I personally interpret it to mean that citizens have the right to own guns in order to form militia to fight outside threats from other countries, not to rise up against our own democratically elected gov't. At the time considering the infancy of our country the federal army needed the support of local militia for national defense. However, both interpretations allows us to have firearms.

What I find fascinating is how many people believe that they have to have guns to fight the gov't. I can understand having firearms to protect yourself/family from criminals but from the gov't? Really? So I really would like to gather everyone's thoughts, is the gov't our natural enemy? Do you see the gov't as a separate entity or are we the gov't (of the people, by the people, for the people)?

Do you think the gov't is good, evil, stupid, or divided as a byproduct of how culturally divided/diverse our country is?

If you believe we need guns to defend against the gov't would you advocate using them on the military? Police officers? Politicians? (We recently saw a case like this where senatorGabrielle Giffords who had an attempt assassination and there have been many assassination in the past.)

#2 Posted by KiIIyou (27135 posts) -
Weirdos
#3 Posted by Aljosa23 (24542 posts) -

Well, the current government is okay, but if history has taught us anything, it's that sh#t happens.

coolbeans90

#4 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -
Neutral.. The government has done many great and terrible things.. Its a necessary counterbalance for society.
#5 Posted by comp_atkins (31186 posts) -
it really plays a pretty insignificant role in my everyday life, other than the entertainment it provides by it's own stupidity.. i don't feel i'm oppressed by it, or taken advantage by it.. i don't expect much from it either.
#6 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

it really plays a pretty insignificant role in my everyday life, other than the entertainment it provides by it's own stupidity.. i don't feel i'm oppressed by it, or taken advantage by it.. i don't expect much from it either. comp_atkins

Quite the opposite in reality.. You drive down government subsidized roads.. You follow federal and state traffic laws in which they are enforced by local police.. You go to a resturante in which the health inspector using federal health code ensures is sanitary enough for customers.. You buy food at a super market in which you can look at a products contents thanks to the government mandated nutritional balance printed on it.. Your able to enjoy this very site due to the net neutrality that is enforced by the government.. List goes on.. The private and public sectors are interconnected with one another.

#7 Posted by whipassmt (13948 posts) -

what the government is is determined by the people who comprise it. If the government is just it is because we have just men in the positions of power, if it is oppressive it is because we have oppressive people in power.

#8 Posted by CycleOfViolence (3314 posts) -

Neutral.. The government has done many great and terrible things.. Its a necessary counterbalance for society.sSubZerOo

Pretty much.

Government will always exist in some capacity. It will never get to the totalitarian/Big Brother police nation that people say we are heading towards nor will we ever live in a libertarian wet dream state less society.

#9 Posted by airshocker (28737 posts) -

I think the government tries to do good, but more often than not it doesn't accomplish that. Also, I believe the complexity of it all has an oppressive effect on society.

#10 Posted by Blueresident87 (5312 posts) -

I am apathetic about government.

#11 Posted by jimkabrhel (15416 posts) -

I think the government tries to do good, but more often than not it doesn't accomplish that. Also, I believe the complexity of it all has an oppressive effect on society.

airshocker

Yep.

#12 Posted by nocoolnamejim (15136 posts) -
I think, in general, it is as good or as bad as the people we put in to run it. But I think it is currently being crippled by three things in particular that lead to a rush of extremism: 1. Gerrymandering creating ultimate safe districts 2. The abuse of the filibuster in the Senate 3. Our failed media experiment. The first one is, by far, the most glaring issue. When there is no incentive to compromise or move towards the middle because that has a greater chance of getting you kicked out of office for doing so than there is if you are busy genuflecting to your base, it creates gridlock and encourages extreme views. The second one is a byproduct of the first, but is used in an undemocratic way. It was intended to provide SOME minority protections, not make everything need a supermajority to pass the chamber. The last one exacerbates the problems. Rather than reporting things as true or not true, we have a media that is a mix of "horse race" type reporting (Side A says the sky is blue. Side B says the sky is red. Opinions differ on the truth of the matter) and pure propaganda.
#13 Posted by comp_atkins (31186 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]it really plays a pretty insignificant role in my everyday life, other than the entertainment it provides by it's own stupidity.. i don't feel i'm oppressed by it, or taken advantage by it.. i don't expect much from it either. sSubZerOo

Quite the opposite in reality.. You drive down government subsidized roads.. You follow federal and state traffic laws in which they are enforced by local police.. You go to a resturante in which the health inspector using federal health code ensures is sanitary enough for customers.. You buy food at a super market in which you can look at a products contents thanks to the government mandated nutritional balance printed on it.. Your able to enjoy this very site due to the net neutrality that is enforced by the government.. List goes on.. The private and public sectors are interconnected with one another.

i guess i meant i don't actively think about it during me everyday life... i'm not driving down the road going "boy, these are some great government subsidized roads!" or "god-dammit! these traffic laws are so oppressive! i hate the gubment!" it's there, great, but i don't think about it.
#14 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]it really plays a pretty insignificant role in my everyday life, other than the entertainment it provides by it's own stupidity.. i don't feel i'm oppressed by it, or taken advantage by it.. i don't expect much from it either. comp_atkins

Quite the opposite in reality.. You drive down government subsidized roads.. You follow federal and state traffic laws in which they are enforced by local police.. You go to a resturante in which the health inspector using federal health code ensures is sanitary enough for customers.. You buy food at a super market in which you can look at a products contents thanks to the government mandated nutritional balance printed on it.. Your able to enjoy this very site due to the net neutrality that is enforced by the government.. List goes on.. The private and public sectors are interconnected with one another.

i guess i meant i don't actively think about it during me everyday life... i'm not driving down the road going "boy, these are some great government subsidized roads!" or "god-dammit! these traffic laws are so oppressive! i hate the gubment!" it's there, great, but i don't think about it.

And that is one of the problems with people now a days.. They don't realize or think about such things yet feel to go down a crusade against said government.. That they some how think they are a island of their own that they need no help or support.. That doesn't mean that government is beyond criticism, quite the opposite, but we have this extremist movement that pretty much labels anthing with government as communist, facist or socialist.. Which is ridiculous.

#15 Posted by BATTOSAI76 (4084 posts) -

The government is vying for control over the population. They want nothing less then total control over us, our lives, and how we conduct ourselves. They want us to blindly support them and their ideals so they can control us better. The only thing keeping that from reaching total fruition is that they hate each other too much to collaborate for full control, but I fear the day they do. That being said my feelings for the government are pretty negative.

#16 Posted by Diablo-B (4022 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]it really plays a pretty insignificant role in my everyday life, other than the entertainment it provides by it's own stupidity.. i don't feel i'm oppressed by it, or taken advantage by it.. i don't expect much from it either. comp_atkins

Quite the opposite in reality.. You drive down government subsidized roads.. You follow federal and state traffic laws in which they are enforced by local police.. You go to a resturante in which the health inspector using federal health code ensures is sanitary enough for customers.. You buy food at a super market in which you can look at a products contents thanks to the government mandated nutritional balance printed on it.. Your able to enjoy this very site due to the net neutrality that is enforced by the government.. List goes on.. The private and public sectors are interconnected with one another.

i guess i meant i don't actively think about it during me everyday life... i'm not driving down the road going "boy, these are some great government subsidized roads!" or "god-dammit! these traffic laws are so oppressive! i hate the gubment!" it's there, great, but i don't think about it.

That brings up a very important point. I remember an episode of Futurama where bender is floating in space and became a god, having little creatures living on his body. At the very end we meets with God and asks how do you deal with it and God replies " When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all. " Thats really when you know the gov't is working well, and you don't even feel their influence on your daily life, like they dont exist

#17 Posted by comp_atkins (31186 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Quite the opposite in reality.. You drive down government subsidized roads.. You follow federal and state traffic laws in which they are enforced by local police.. You go to a resturante in which the health inspector using federal health code ensures is sanitary enough for customers.. You buy food at a super market in which you can look at a products contents thanks to the government mandated nutritional balance printed on it.. Your able to enjoy this very site due to the net neutrality that is enforced by the government.. List goes on.. The private and public sectors are interconnected with one another.

sSubZerOo

i guess i meant i don't actively think about it during me everyday life... i'm not driving down the road going "boy, these are some great government subsidized roads!" or "god-dammit! these traffic laws are so oppressive! i hate the gubment!" it's there, great, but i don't think about it.

And that is one of the problems with people now a days.. They don't realize or think about such things yet feel to go down a crusade against said government.. That they some how think they are a island of their own that they need no help or support.. That doesn't mean that government is beyond criticism, quite the opposite, but we have this extremist movement that pretty much labels anthing with government as communist, facist or socialist.. Which is ridiculous.

just because i'm pretty self-reliant doesn't mean i look to eliminate aspects of it for people who are not.. i'm not looking for anything more from the government in my daily life.. i don't need any more help from them nor want to eliminate the help they can offer others. that is not to say i'm ignorant of it, however.
#18 Posted by Diablo-B (4022 posts) -

The government is vying for control over the population. They want nothing less then total control over us, our lives, and how we conduct ourselves. They want us to blindly support them and their ideals so they can control us better. The only thing keeping that from reaching total fruition is that they hate each other too much to collaborate for full control, but I fear the day they do. That being said my feelings for the government are pretty negative.

BATTOSAI76
Umm... any evidence for this?
#19 Posted by Aquat1cF1sh (10853 posts) -
Choice C is highly accurate.
#20 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"] i guess i meant i don't actively think about it during me everyday life... i'm not driving down the road going "boy, these are some great government subsidized roads!" or "god-dammit! these traffic laws are so oppressive! i hate the gubment!" it's there, great, but i don't think about it. comp_atkins

And that is one of the problems with people now a days.. They don't realize or think about such things yet feel to go down a crusade against said government.. That they some how think they are a island of their own that they need no help or support.. That doesn't mean that government is beyond criticism, quite the opposite, but we have this extremist movement that pretty much labels anthing with government as communist, facist or socialist.. Which is ridiculous.

just because i'm pretty self-reliant doesn't mean i look to eliminate aspects of it for people who are not.. i'm not looking for anything more from the government in my daily life.. i don't need any more help from them nor want to eliminate the help they can offer others. that is not to say i'm ignorant of it, however.

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

#21 Posted by BATTOSAI76 (4084 posts) -

[QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"]

The government is vying for control over the population. They want nothing less then total control over us, our lives, and how we conduct ourselves. They want us to blindly support them and their ideals so they can control us better. The only thing keeping that from reaching total fruition is that they hate each other too much to collaborate for full control, but I fear the day they do. That being said my feelings for the government are pretty negative.

Diablo-B

Umm... any evidence for this?

The fed needs to be as small as possible. Right now it's too big, and all it wants to do is get bigger.

#22 Posted by Jebus213 (8716 posts) -
Choice C is highly accurate.Aquat1cF1sh
This^ Why in the hell does the last option have the most votes? Both ideology's are garbage.
#23 Posted by Diablo-B (4022 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

And that is one of the problems with people now a days.. They don't realize or think about such things yet feel to go down a crusade against said government.. That they some how think they are a island of their own that they need no help or support.. That doesn't mean that government is beyond criticism, quite the opposite, but we have this extremist movement that pretty much labels anthing with government as communist, facist or socialist.. Which is ridiculous.

sSubZerOo

just because i'm pretty self-reliant doesn't mean i look to eliminate aspects of it for people who are not.. i'm not looking for anything more from the government in my daily life.. i don't need any more help from them nor want to eliminate the help they can offer others. that is not to say i'm ignorant of it, however.

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

The question becomes what should be privatized and what should be in the public sphere
#24 Posted by airshocker (28737 posts) -

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

sSubZerOo

And you seem to be implying that people don't work in order to purchase these services. Which is what most people do. You come off as someone who takes for granted the work of others in obtaining said services.

#25 Posted by whipassmt (13948 posts) -

I think, in general, it is as good or as bad as the people we put in to run it. But I think it is currently being crippled by three things in particular that lead to a rush of extremism: 1. Gerrymandering creating ultimate safe districts 2. The abuse of the filibuster in the Senate 3. Our failed media experiment. The first one is, by far, the most glaring issue. When there is no incentive to compromise or move towards the middle because that has a greater chance of getting you kicked out of office for doing so than there is if you are busy genuflecting to your base, it creates gridlock and encourages extreme views. The second one is a byproduct of the first, but is used in an undemocratic way. It was intended to provide SOME minority protections, not make everything need a supermajority to pass the chamber. The last one exacerbates the problems. Rather than reporting things as true or not true, we have a media that is a mix of "horse race" type reporting (Side A says the sky is blue. Side B says the sky is red. Opinions differ on the truth of the matter) and pure propaganda.nocoolnamejim
To a degree I agree with what you're saying. Though I think there would still be some safe districts even without Gerrymandering. In order to actually Gerrymander Congressional districts a political party needs to control the legislature so even without gerrymandering the districts that party is still likely to win most of the Congressional races in that state. I guess one way we could eliminate the gerrymandering would to have all Congressional slots be elected statewide rather than by districts, which would also force candidates to compete with members of their own party for votes. The flipside of this is that it may allow a few big cities to determine the state's entire Congressional delegation effectively depriving rural and small town folk of Congressional representation. I wouldn't be fair if New Orleans got to determine all of Louisiana's congressmen and poor Shelby Stanga and the people in his swamp didn't get any representatives from their area.

As far as filibusters go I think they should be used for their original purpose: ensuring debate isn't cut off prematurely. They are also sometimes used to force the majority leader to allow Senators to offer amendments, which I am fine with. Perhaps a bigger problem is the use of anonymous holds. I remember in late 2011 some senator put an anonymous hold on legislation to fund and reauthorize the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) because of some issue he had with some federal prison (I think he wanted more funding for it) which was totally unrelated to USCIRF.

#26 Posted by Diablo-B (4022 posts) -

[QUOTE="Diablo-B"][QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"]

The government is vying for control over the population. They want nothing less then total control over us, our lives, and how we conduct ourselves. They want us to blindly support them and their ideals so they can control us better. The only thing keeping that from reaching total fruition is that they hate each other too much to collaborate for full control, but I fear the day they do. That being said my feelings for the government are pretty negative.

BATTOSAI76

Umm... any evidence for this?

The fed needs to be as small as possible. Right now it's too big, and all it wants to do is get bigger.

LOL, so your evidence that the gov't is trying to control us is that the fed is too big?
#27 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

airshocker

And you seem to be implying that people don't work in order to purchase these services. Which is what most people do. You come off as someone who takes for granted the work of others in obtaining said services.

No where did I state that.. But your single payment is not what is keeping these a float, but millions as well both private and government oversight.. Your monthly payment is not the single payment that keeps the industry alive.. The fact of the matter is these infastructures can survive with out YOUR payment every month, you would be damned to survive with out them for a month.

#28 Posted by comp_atkins (31186 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

And that is one of the problems with people now a days.. They don't realize or think about such things yet feel to go down a crusade against said government.. That they some how think they are a island of their own that they need no help or support.. That doesn't mean that government is beyond criticism, quite the opposite, but we have this extremist movement that pretty much labels anthing with government as communist, facist or socialist.. Which is ridiculous.

sSubZerOo

just because i'm pretty self-reliant doesn't mean i look to eliminate aspects of it for people who are not.. i'm not looking for anything more from the government in my daily life.. i don't need any more help from them nor want to eliminate the help they can offer others. that is not to say i'm ignorant of it, however.

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

ffs.. this is what i hate about internet conversations... you need to be soooooo friggin' specific with your words or someone will pick one piece of it, take it out of context, and run with it. clarified again: just because i'm pretty self-reliant and by that all i meant was I'M NOT DEPENDENT UPON DIRECT GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE FOR BASIC LIVING NEEDS.. i'm not talking about living off the grid in the woods as a doomsday prepper. just a regular freakin' person living in the suburbs. i'm not trying to be an island. i appreciate my clean water and electricity, internet, food supply etc.. just as much as anyone living in a modern 1st world country. you seem pissed that i'm not walking around extolling the benefits of government to everyone i meet? i don't care that much in your eyes? fine. i'll accept that.

#29 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"] just because i'm pretty self-reliant doesn't mean i look to eliminate aspects of it for people who are not.. i'm not looking for anything more from the government in my daily life.. i don't need any more help from them nor want to eliminate the help they can offer others. that is not to say i'm ignorant of it, however. Diablo-B

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

The question becomes what should be privatized and what should be in the public sphere

Isn't it obvious? Its interconnected.. They both have their uses and you will notice the most successful countries in the world for standard of living have a delicate balance of both.. One is not better then the other, and one is not more important than the other.

#30 Posted by Diablo-B (4022 posts) -

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]I think, in general, it is as good or as bad as the people we put in to run it. But I think it is currently being crippled by three things in particular that lead to a rush of extremism: 1. Gerrymandering creating ultimate safe districts 2. The abuse of the filibuster in the Senate 3. Our failed media experiment. The first one is, by far, the most glaring issue. When there is no incentive to compromise or move towards the middle because that has a greater chance of getting you kicked out of office for doing so than there is if you are busy genuflecting to your base, it creates gridlock and encourages extreme views. The second one is a byproduct of the first, but is used in an undemocratic way. It was intended to provide SOME minority protections, not make everything need a supermajority to pass the chamber. The last one exacerbates the problems. Rather than reporting things as true or not true, we have a media that is a mix of "horse race" type reporting (Side A says the sky is blue. Side B says the sky is red. Opinions differ on the truth of the matter) and pure propaganda.whipassmt

To a degree I agree with what you're saying. Though I think there would still be some safe districts even without Gerrymandering. In order to actually Gerrymander Congressional districts a political party needs to control the legislature so even without gerrymandering the districts that party is still likely to win most of the Congressional races in that state. I guess one way we could eliminate the gerrymandering would to have all Congressional slots be elected statewide rather than by districts, which would also force candidates to compete with members of their own party for votes. The flipside of this is that it may allow a few big cities to determine the state's entire Congressional delegation effectively depriving rural and small town folk of Congressional representation. I wouldn't be fair if New Orleans got to determine all of Louisiana's congressmen and poor Shelby Stanga and the people in his swamp didn't get any representatives from their area.

As far as filibusters go I think they should be used for their original purpose: ensuring debate isn't cut off prematurely. They are also sometimes used to force the majority leader to allow Senators to offer amendments, which I am fine with. Perhaps a bigger problem is the use of anonymous holds. I remember in late 2011 some senator put an anonymous hold on legislation to fund and reauthorize the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) because of some issue he had with some federal prison (I think he wanted more funding for it) which was totally unrelated to USCIRF.

To add gerrymandering only lead to a 9 seat increase for the states gerrymandering took place. It doesn't really add control but instead makes it easier to keep control
#31 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -
hate it in the current state it's in now.
#32 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"] just because i'm pretty self-reliant doesn't mean i look to eliminate aspects of it for people who are not.. i'm not looking for anything more from the government in my daily life.. i don't need any more help from them nor want to eliminate the help they can offer others. that is not to say i'm ignorant of it, however. comp_atkins

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

ffs.. this is what i hate about internet conversations... you need to be soooooo friggin' specific with your words or someone will pick one piece of it, take it out of context, and run with it. clarified again: just because i'm pretty self-reliant and by that all i meant was I'M NOT DEPENDENT UPON DIRECT GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE FOR BASIC LIVING NEEDS.. i'm not talking about living off the grid in the woods as a doomsday prepper. just a regular freakin' person living in the suburbs. i'm not trying to be an island. i appreciate my clean water and electricity, internet, food supply etc.. just as much as anyone living in a modern 1st world country. you seem pissed that i'm not walking around extolling the benefits of government to everyone i meet?

No merely pointing out the fact you seem to take forgranted of said services to the point some one has to point them out to you.. Which seems like if that weren't teh case the only time you would actually think about it is when you lost it.

#33 Posted by airshocker (28737 posts) -

No where did I state that.. But your single payment is not what is keeping these a float, but millions as well both private and government oversight.. Your monthly payment is not the single payment that keeps the industry alive.. The fact of the matter is these infastructures can survive with out YOUR payment every month, you would be damned to survive with out them for a month.

sSubZerOo

The way you state things is the problem. You can say whatever you want, but you've already come off as somebofy who sees no fault in the government. That every person is somehow beholden to them, though they're the ones that work and pay for the services they receive. They aren't given to them by the benevolence of the state.

#34 Posted by Diablo-B (4022 posts) -

[QUOTE="Diablo-B"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

sSubZerOo

The question becomes what should be privatized and what should be in the public sphere

Isn't it obvious? Its interconnected.. They both have their uses and you will notice the most successful countries in the world for standard of living have a delicate balance of both.. One is not better then the other, and one is not more important than the other.

Its not that obvious because our country (and others) are constantly fighting over how to achieve that balance
#35 Posted by comp_atkins (31186 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

sSubZerOo

ffs.. this is what i hate about internet conversations... you need to be soooooo friggin' specific with your words or someone will pick one piece of it, take it out of context, and run with it. clarified again: just because i'm pretty self-reliant and by that all i meant was I'M NOT DEPENDENT UPON DIRECT GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE FOR BASIC LIVING NEEDS.. i'm not talking about living off the grid in the woods as a doomsday prepper. just a regular freakin' person living in the suburbs. i'm not trying to be an island. i appreciate my clean water and electricity, internet, food supply etc.. just as much as anyone living in a modern 1st world country. you seem pissed that i'm not walking around extolling the benefits of government to everyone i meet?

No merely pointing out the fact you seem to take forgranted of said services to the point some one has to point them out to you.. Which seems like if that weren't teh case the only time you would actually think about it is when you lost it.

what would be the appropriate amount of appreciation i should be expressing in your eyes? :P
#36 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

If they would rethink their irrational "war on drugs" and not only legalize the use, lawful sale, and exportation of marijuana, but focus on rehabilitation instead of imprisonment for simple drug charges, they'd be alright in my book. We could reduce the cost of the federal government on many different levels and the new taxes could be purely used to pay down the deficit (an estimated 300 to 700 billion dollars over ten years).

The political climate is divided and while I don't understand many of the right's positions I respect their right to have an opinion. That being said there is no excuse for the current gridlock in the lesgislative branch of the government and this fiscal crisis should have been done away with a long time ago if anyone in congress was able to do the jobs they were elected to do.

#37 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

No where did I state that.. But your single payment is not what is keeping these a float, but millions as well both private and government oversight.. Your monthly payment is not the single payment that keeps the industry alive.. The fact of the matter is these infastructures can survive with out YOUR payment every month, you would be damned to survive with out them for a month.

airshocker

The way you state things is the problem. You can say whatever you want, but you've already come off as somebofy who sees no fault in the government.

................. Except the fact that I have said that the government is a neutral entity that has done great and terrible things.. And I have specifically said that they are by no means above criticism, quite the opposite.. They should have the HARSHEST criticsim placed upon them, because they are suppose to represent you..

That every person is somehow beholden to them

You pay taxes right? You abide the law right? You also have the right to influence them through lobbying, voting, free speech etc etc..

, though they're the ones that work and pay for the services they receive. They aren't given to them by the benevolence of the state.

They pay for the upkeep of said system.. We did nto pay for its creation of it.. We developed as a nation due to this infastructure.. This isn't saying that hte government is all good in fact I have made clear in issuing no opinion between the two.. Merely that the government is as important to the nation in development and our livlihood as the private sector.

#38 Posted by Kage1 (6727 posts) -

The gov't is naturally evil and is actively trying to control us.

#39 Posted by sSubZerOo (43003 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Diablo-B"] The question becomes what should be privatized and what should be in the public sphereDiablo-B

Isn't it obvious? Its interconnected.. They both have their uses and you will notice the most successful countries in the world for standard of living have a delicate balance of both.. One is not better then the other, and one is not more important than the other.

Its not that obvious because our country (and others) are constantly fighting over how to achieve that balance

I am talking about in respects of the idea of completely getting rid of government or making government take over everything.. Both are the extremes that most stay away from in that respect. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

#40 Posted by whipassmt (13948 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Self-Reliant? You depend off communciations, electricity, water, currency that the government gives value, roads.. People need to realize that what I am talking about is not about welfare or other ridiculous things.. That you live in a society thats interconnected.. People seem to take forgranted the fact that they can go to their faucet to drink fresh clean water.. Or that they have stable electrical infastructure.. It seems like the only time people ever realize how much they depend off certain services is when they lose it..

sSubZerOo

ffs.. this is what i hate about internet conversations... you need to be soooooo friggin' specific with your words or someone will pick one piece of it, take it out of context, and run with it. clarified again: just because i'm pretty self-reliant and by that all i meant was I'M NOT DEPENDENT UPON DIRECT GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE FOR BASIC LIVING NEEDS.. i'm not talking about living off the grid in the woods as a doomsday prepper. just a regular freakin' person living in the suburbs. i'm not trying to be an island. i appreciate my clean water and electricity, internet, food supply etc.. just as much as anyone living in a modern 1st world country. you seem pissed that i'm not walking around extolling the benefits of government to everyone i meet?

No merely pointing out the fact you seem to take forgranted of said services to the point some one has to point them out to you.. Which seems like if that weren't teh case the only time you would actually think about it is when you lost it.

Isn't that like a lot of things in life, people take them forgranted until it's lost. "you don't know what you've got til its gone... pave paradise and put up a parking lot" .

#41 Posted by Squeets (8184 posts) -

Our government is good in theory. In practice it is not.

Its more the fault of the people than of the politicians in my opinion. Politicians are inherently self-interested and they are supported by collaborations of interest groups. Everything they do is obvious and likely a matter of public record. Our citizenry, however, is woefully ignorant of everything our politicians and government do. It is sad. Nothing will ever change it. If anything the quick and instant access to information has only made things worse.

TL;DR: EVERYBODY IGNORANT

#42 Posted by whipassmt (13948 posts) -

Our government is good in theory. In practice it is not.

Its more the fault of the people than of the politicians in my opinion. Politicians are inherently self-interested and they are supported by collaborations of interest groups. Everything they do is obvious and likely a matter of public record. Our citizenry, however, is woefully ignorant of everything our politicians and government do. It is sad. Nothing will ever change it. If anything the quick and instant access to information has only made things worse.

TL;DR: EVERYBODY IGNORANT

Squeets

There are some politicians who are motivated by other things that self-interest, including some that have cast votes that they think are best for the country but bad for their chances at reelection.

#43 Posted by BATTOSAI76 (4084 posts) -

[QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"]

[QUOTE="Diablo-B"] Umm... any evidence for this?Diablo-B

The fed needs to be as small as possible. Right now it's too big, and all it wants to do is get bigger.

LOL, so your evidence that the gov't is trying to control us is that the fed is too big?

Shoot. My bad. I read your comment wrong.

My evidence stands that they want control. Drug and alcohol regulations, tax hikes, federal fire arms regulations, government regulated and required by law health care, government funded abortions and birth control (to control the population). Some of those exist and some have been lobbied for in congress. Not to mention their constant behind the sciences prodding of class warfare. Their strategy, get the poor angry at the rich so they fight to get politicians to get the rich to pay more taxes. Then get the poor to trust them by giving them services that are highly regulated by the government, thus controlling the lower class. The whole government is a racket. All they want is your money and support.

#44 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
A wholly unnecessary entity.
#45 Posted by themajormayor (25670 posts) -
I think it's given too much attention here
#46 Posted by k2theswiss (16598 posts) -
rebs and dems all they do is bark at each other.... That's why our 2 way party system needs to die...
#47 Posted by DaBrainz (7623 posts) -
When we face obstacles, I seldom agree with the solution proposed by either party in our government. So I have developed a general disdain for the government.
#48 Posted by airshocker (28737 posts) -

................. Except the fact that I have said that the government is a neutral entity that has done great and terrible things.. And I have specifically said that they are by no means above criticism, quite the opposite.. They should have the HARSHEST criticsim placed upon them, because they are suppose to represent you..

You pay taxes right? You abide the law right? You also have the right to influence them through lobbying, voting, free speech etc etc..

They pay for the upkeep of said system.. We did nto pay for its creation of it.. We developed as a nation due to this infastructure.. This isn't saying that hte government is all good in fact I have made clear in issuing no opinion between the two.. Merely that the government is as important to the nation in development and our livlihood as the private sector.

sSubZerOo

Just because you say something doesn't mean you come off as sounding neutral on the matter.

Even now you're proving my point. You come off a someone who thinks people should be beholden to the government. That the government can do no wrong and people owe everything they have to the government.

#49 Posted by PernicioEnigma (5271 posts) -
There can't be must trust, considering the number of people arming themselves in case they go tyrannical.