What do you think about suicide?

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#1 Posted by thereal25 (443 posts) -

Is it right? Is it wrong?

Is "depression" the cause in EVERY case?

Some people like to assume things and make judgements about others' situations...

they say that a person who commits suicide is "weak" or "selfish".

What are your thoughts?

#2 Edited by Korvus (3806 posts) -

I don't think it's either right or wrong, but it's unfortunate nonetheless. And yeah, I do believe depression is probably the case every time; I don't think people consider suicide (seriously consider, with the "how" and "when", not "my life sucks, I should kill myself") unless they've hit rock bottom and are unable to find the strength to carry on.

I don't think suicidal thoughts imply weakness, everybody needs help and support at some points in their lives....as for selfishness, a lot of suicidal people have a "fuck the world" attitude, which includes their families. I've heard people say "I feel bad for my family if I kill myself, but I'll be dead, so I won't have to deal with it", which is a very selfish attitude. That being said, not everyone is like that.

#3 Edited by SaintLeonidas (26261 posts) -

Depression is a mental illness. To say someone who kills themselves because of it is selfish is a truly ignorant thing to say. With depression, and many mental illnesses, the person suffering from it has little to NO control over their emotions and often their actions. Doesn't matter how much money or fame they have. Doesn't matter if they truly love and care for their family or friends. Depression consumes them. Unfortunately it gets to the point in which it tricks them into thinking that death is the only release. I fail to see how that could ever be considered selfish.

#4 Edited by Shadowchronicle (26039 posts) -

I think that it if a person truly has important things to cling on to they would continue to live instead of kill themselves off. Not to be bring in bad stories but my mom always said that if she didn't have a family to take care of she would kill herself so that way she wouldn't have the burden of living. I think it's selfish if someone brings it upon themselves to help others but then kill themselves. Suicide is a serious thing but it doesn't change the fact the people you left behind will suffer because of it.

Don't get me wrong, people who kill themselves are victims but the people who surrounds that person are also victims as well.

Depression isn't always a cause but for the most part it is.

EDIT: I also think that a person who kills themselves isn't weak. It's a pretty hard decision.

#5 Posted by KHAndAnime (13755 posts) -

I think it takes a lot of courage and motivation. I don't think depression is just a mental illness - that's suggesting nobody has a legitimate reason to be sad about their circumstances, which is complete and utter balogna. I'm sure there are lots of different reasons for it too.

#6 Posted by thereal25 (443 posts) -

@korvus said:

I don't think it's either right or wrong, but it's unfortunate nonetheless. And yeah, I do believe depression is probably the case every time; I don't think people consider suicide (seriously consider, with the "how" and "when", not "my life sucks, I should kill myself") unless they've hit rock bottom and are unable to find the strength to carry on.

I don't think suicidal thoughts imply weakness, everybody needs help and support at some points in their lives....as for selfishness, a lot of suicidal people have a "fuck the world" attitude, which includes their families. I've heard people say "I feel bad for my family if I kill myself, but I'll be dead, so I won't have to deal with it", which is a very selfish attitude. That being said, not everyone is like that.

Depression is the cause every time? Really?

What if you're broke/homeless and have little to no prospects of finding work?

What if you suffer from a debilitating condition that severely compromises your quality of life. Like that poor girl that was disfigured by acid thrown in her face?

What if your "suicide" is actually a sacrifice for someone else?

What if you're getting old/weak and you don't feel comfortable with the idea of ending up in a nursing home with nurses spooning food into your mouth and wiping your bottom?

What if you live in a very violent and hopeless place where the only way to earn a living is to be a violent criminal?

What if you simply do it out of fear. (Like if you have many enemies who have made convincing threats?)

Or any other situation where the "quality of life" just doesn't seem adequate enough to be considered "worth it"?

"I feel bad for my family if I kill myself, but I'll be dead, so I won't have to deal with it", which is a very selfish attitude. That being said, not everyone is like that

A lousy philosophy indeed!

#7 Posted by Iszdope (9984 posts) -

I think I think about it every other day.

#8 Posted by johnd13 (8135 posts) -

@Iszdope said:

I think I think about it every other day.

Don't do it man. You only get one life. One, and that's it.

#9 Edited by Xeno_ghost (683 posts) -

Ffs what's with all the depressing shit threads these days?

#10 Posted by thereal25 (443 posts) -

@shadowchronicle said:

I think that it if a person truly has important things to cling on to they would continue to live instead of kill themselves off. Not to be bring in bad stories but my mom always said that if she didn't have a family to take care of she would kill herself so that way she wouldn't have the burden of living. I think it's selfish if someone brings it upon themselves to help others but then kill themselves. Suicide is a serious thing but it doesn't change the fact the people you left behind will suffer because of it.

Don't get me wrong, people who kill themselves are victims but the people who surrounds that person are also victims as well.

Depression isn't always a cause but for the most part it is.

EDIT: I also think that a person who kills themselves isn't weak. It's a pretty hard decision.

It's a delicate issue for sure. On the one hand sometimes a persons self esteem could be so low that they just think negatively about everything including "nobody would even care if I died", when in actual fact their suicide could leave quite a devastating effect on many of those around them.

On the other hand though, in some cases there really may not be that many people that would be badly "hurt".

And then of course there is the justification that a potential suicider may have whereby they tell themselves that even though some people may be hurt, "if they REALLY loved me they would be happy for my pain/suffering/torment to end."

#11 Posted by indzman (17789 posts) -

@Iszdope said:

I think I think about it every other day.

#12 Posted by Iszdope (9984 posts) -

@johnd13 said:

@Iszdope said:

I think I think about it every other day.

Don't do it man. You only get one life. One, and that's it.

See, I'm not sold on that...

Anywho, I just think of my kids, and that usually snaps me out of it.

Usually.

#13 Posted by thereal25 (443 posts) -

@Iszdope said:

I think I think about it every other day.

Same here man. Mind you, I don't often think about it in terms of ACTUALLY doing it.

@xeno_ghost said:

Ffs what's with all the depressing shit threads these days?

It's a real issue man. It's OKAY to face reality.

#14 Posted by Korvus (3806 posts) -

@thereal25 said:

Depression is the cause every time? Really?

What if you're broke/homeless and have little to no prospects of finding work?

What if you suffer from a debilitating condition that severely compromises your quality of life. Like that poor girl that was disfigured by acid thrown in her face?

What if your "suicide" is actually a sacrifice for someone else?

What if you're getting old/weak and you don't feel comfortable with the idea of ending up in a nursing home with nurses spooning food into your mouth and wiping your bottom?

What if you live in a very violent and hopeless place where the only way to earn a living is to be a violent criminal?

What if you simply do it out of fear. (Like if you have many enemies who have made convincing threats?)

Or any other situation where the "quality of life" just doesn't seem adequate enough to be considered "worth it"?

Lots of people are broke, homeless, disabled, old, etc and do not commit suicide. Growing up, my family and I ate a spoon of rice a day as our only meal...we didn't have hot water, electricity, no money for anything, I would walk 40km to school(25 miles), 20 there and 20 back, because I couldn't afford a bus, and we were not homeless but we all slept in the same room, on the floor. None of us committed suicide.

So it is possible to survive all of those situations, like many people do, but if you see no reason to live, give up on trying to improve your situation and decide to off yourself, you're trying to tell me you're not depressed?

Also, suicide as a sacrifice for someone else? You mean like jumping on the train tracks to save someone and end up dying? That's not a suicide in my book...that an heroic act...

#15 Posted by thereal25 (443 posts) -

@korvus:

Lots of people are broke, homeless, disabled, old, etc and do not commit suicide. Growing up, my family and I ate a spoon of rice a day as our only meal...we didn't have hot water, electricity, no money for anything, I would walk 40km to school(25 miles), 20 there and 20 back, because I couldn't afford a bus, and we were not homeless but we all slept in the same room, on the floor. None of us committed suicide.

Depends on your purpose of life. I personally would consider death to be a more favourable outcome than homelessness and perhaps also some of the other things you mentioned. But I'm not saying that everyone should/does feel the same way.

So it is possible to survive all of those situations, like many people do, but if you see no reason to live, give up on trying to improve your situation and decide to off yourself, you're trying to tell me you're not depressed?

It's quite possible... often, suicide is more a case of deciding "it's not worth it" rather than it being some sort of mental illness like depression.

Also, suicide as a sacrifice for someone else? You mean like jumping on the train tracks to save someone and end up dying? That's not a suicide in my book...that an heroic act...

Yes, but I could think of other possible scenarios where the line is more blurred. Like a case where it may APPEAR TO OTHERS as suicide but part of your motivation may be to help others.

#16 Posted by Korvus (3806 posts) -
@thereal25 said:

t's quite possible... often, suicide is more a case of deciding "it's not worth it" rather than it being some sort of mental illness like depression.

Also, suicide as a sacrifice for someone else? You mean like jumping on the train tracks to save someone and end up dying? That's not a suicide in my book...that an heroic act...

Yes, but I could think of other possible scenarios where the line is more blurred. Like a case where it may APPEAR TO OTHERS as suicide but part of your motivation may be to help others.

We can probably stay here all day discussing whether thinking "it's not worth it, I'm just going to kill myself" is always a sign of depression or not...

Also, "a case where it may APPEAR TO OTHERS as suicide but part of your motivation may be to help others"...example please? Other than Hollywood, I can't think of a good reason for this.

#17 Posted by JangoWuzHere (16418 posts) -

I think suicide is selfish. My uncle committed suicide a long time ago, and it still hurts my mom greatly.

#18 Posted by poptart (6850 posts) -

@korvus said:
@thereal25 said:

t's quite possible... often, suicide is more a case of deciding "it's not worth it" rather than it being some sort of mental illness like depression.

Also, suicide as a sacrifice for someone else? You mean like jumping on the train tracks to save someone and end up dying? That's not a suicide in my book...that an heroic act...

Yes, but I could think of other possible scenarios where the line is more blurred. Like a case where it may APPEAR TO OTHERS as suicide but part of your motivation may be to help others.

We can probably stay here all day discussing whether thinking "it's not worth it, I'm just going to kill myself" is always a sign of depression or not...

Also, "a case where it may APPEAR TO OTHERS as suicide but part of your motivation may be to help others"...example please? Other than Hollywood, I can't think of a good reason for this.

Alturism does exist - there are a number of cases where someone has sacrificed themselves for the benefit of others.

Anyway, suicide could be borne out of irrational thinking, or rational thought based on the perception of a persons circumstances/situation and depression can have a strong play in the latter. Saying that euthanasia is a good example of rationalised suicide. As I suppose is martyrdom (in the eyes/mind of the suicidee at least)

#19 Posted by Nuck81 (5856 posts) -

I believe it to be quite justified if you have a terminal disease that will cause you much pain and suffering

#20 Posted by toast_burner (21640 posts) -

@JangoWuzHere said:

I think suicide is selfish. My uncle committed suicide a long time ago, and it still hurts my mom greatly.

it hurting others doesn't necessarily make it selfish. A lot of depressed people believe the the world will be a better place without them. You have to look at it through their prospective.

#21 Posted by JangoWuzHere (16418 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@JangoWuzHere said:

I think suicide is selfish. My uncle committed suicide a long time ago, and it still hurts my mom greatly.

it hurting others doesn't necessarily make it selfish. A lot of depressed people believe the the world will be a better place without them. You have to look at it through their prospective.

They need help, they don't need to kill themselves. Most suicidal people who actually think like that are simply wrong. They are thinking that so they can ignore the pain their death will cause.

#22 Edited by toast_burner (21640 posts) -

@JangoWuzHere said:

@toast_burner said:

@JangoWuzHere said:

I think suicide is selfish. My uncle committed suicide a long time ago, and it still hurts my mom greatly.

it hurting others doesn't necessarily make it selfish. A lot of depressed people believe the the world will be a better place without them. You have to look at it through their prospective.

They need help, they don't need to kill themselves. Most suicidal people who actually think like that are simply wrong. They are thinking that so they can ignore the pain their death will cause.

Yes they are wrong. Does being wrong make you selfish?

Why is it selfish to kill yourself, but not selfish to force someone to live a life they don't want for your own amusement? Live isn't as black and white as you want it to be.

#23 Edited by JangoWuzHere (16418 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@JangoWuzHere said:

@toast_burner said:

@JangoWuzHere said:

I think suicide is selfish. My uncle committed suicide a long time ago, and it still hurts my mom greatly.

it hurting others doesn't necessarily make it selfish. A lot of depressed people believe the the world will be a better place without them. You have to look at it through their prospective.

They need help, they don't need to kill themselves. Most suicidal people who actually think like that are simply wrong. They are thinking that so they can ignore the pain their death will cause.

Yes they are wrong. Does being wrong make you selfish?

Why is it selfish to kill yourself, but not selfish to force someone to live a life they don't want for your own amusement? Live isn't as black and white as you want it to be.

Because suicide is a permanent pain which cannot be undone. A person who is suicidal can be saved mentally. One is definitely more black then the other.

#24 Posted by toast_burner (21640 posts) -

@JangoWuzHere said:

@toast_burner said:

@JangoWuzHere said:

@toast_burner said:

@JangoWuzHere said:

I think suicide is selfish. My uncle committed suicide a long time ago, and it still hurts my mom greatly.

it hurting others doesn't necessarily make it selfish. A lot of depressed people believe the the world will be a better place without them. You have to look at it through their prospective.

They need help, they don't need to kill themselves. Most suicidal people who actually think like that are simply wrong. They are thinking that so they can ignore the pain their death will cause.

Yes they are wrong. Does being wrong make you selfish?

Why is it selfish to kill yourself, but not selfish to force someone to live a life they don't want for your own amusement? Live isn't as black and white as you want it to be.

Because suicide is a permanent pain which cannot be undone. A person who is suicidal can be saved mentally. One is definitely more black then the other.

Yes they could be saved, but they don't know that. How is it selfish to not know something? They don't choose what they feel.

#25 Posted by Korvus (3806 posts) -

@poptart said:

@korvus said:
@thereal25 said:

t's quite possible... often, suicide is more a case of deciding "it's not worth it" rather than it being some sort of mental illness like depression.

Also, suicide as a sacrifice for someone else? You mean like jumping on the train tracks to save someone and end up dying? That's not a suicide in my book...that an heroic act...

Yes, but I could think of other possible scenarios where the line is more blurred. Like a case where it may APPEAR TO OTHERS as suicide but part of your motivation may be to help others.

We can probably stay here all day discussing whether thinking "it's not worth it, I'm just going to kill myself" is always a sign of depression or not...

Also, "a case where it may APPEAR TO OTHERS as suicide but part of your motivation may be to help others"...example please? Other than Hollywood, I can't think of a good reason for this.

Alturism does exist - there are a number of cases where someone has sacrificed themselves for the benefit of others.

Anyway, suicide could be borne out of irrational thinking, or rational thought based on the perception of a persons circumstances/situation and depression can have a strong play in the latter. Saying that euthanasia is a good example of rationalised suicide. As I suppose is martyrdom (in the eyes/mind of the suicidee at least)

If you read my message above that one you'll see we already covered acts of altruism like jumping in front of a train to save someone and that I don't consider that suicide. thereal mentioned less cut-and-dried cases so I asked for an example.

#26 Posted by Xeno_ghost (683 posts) -

@toast_burner: "Yes they could be saved, but they don't know that. How is it selfish to not know something? They don't choose what they feel"

I reckon if you have a wife/girlfriend and kids that love and support you and want you in their lives it's very selfish to commit suicide and leave your family to deal with it.

#27 Posted by toast_burner (21640 posts) -

@xeno_ghost said:

@toast_burner: "Yes they could be saved, but they don't know that. How is it selfish to not know something? They don't choose what they feel"

I reckon if you have a wife/girlfriend and kids that love and support you and want you in their lives it's very selfish to commit suicide and leave your family to deal with it.

The thing about depression is it can and often does trick you into thinking that they don't want you or the won't miss you.

#28 Posted by poptart (6850 posts) -

@korvus:

How about someone jumping in front of a train, however not to save someone but holding a small bird (let's say for example a budgie) and setting it free just before impact.

ALTURISM + BUDGIE - SUICIDE = ART



#29 Edited by Korvus (3806 posts) -

@poptart: errr...oook.... XD

#30 Posted by Xeno_ghost (683 posts) -

@toast_burner: I can see how a severely depressed person would feel like a burden. It's truly a sad sad illness.

Hopefully this kind of treatment will be effective in treating depression;

http://bbrfoundation.org/discoveries/fine-tuning-the-circuitry-in-the-brain-and-intervening-early-on-exciting-next-generation

#31 Edited by Shinobi-Neo (249 posts) -

Famous people always have a hard life and many commit suicide. But suicide should not be an option. I don´t think those who commit suicide are weak, I think they need someone to talk to and someone who would really understand them.

#32 Posted by Wilfred_Owen (20858 posts) -

Thinking is a luxury I can't afford anymore.

#33 Edited by ShepardCommandr (2679 posts) -

It's necessary

#34 Posted by Aljosa23 (24946 posts) -

@korvus said:

I don't think suicidal thoughts imply weakness, everybody needs help and support at some points in their lives....as for selfishness, a lot of suicidal people have a "fuck the world" attitude, which includes their families. I've heard people say "I feel bad for my family if I kill myself, but I'll be dead, so I won't have to deal with it", which is a very selfish attitude. That being said, not everyone is like that.

That's not selfish. On the other hand expecting someone else to live a tortured existence just so you don't feel bad is very selfish.

#35 Edited by Korvus (3806 posts) -

@Aljosa23: Saying it's ok to have your family suffer from your suicide because you're not going to be around to have to deal with it is not selfish? Ok, then.

#36 Posted by Aljosa23 (24946 posts) -

@korvus said:

@Aljosa23: Saying it's ok to have your family suffer from your suicide because you're not going to be around to have to deal with it is not selfish? Ok, then.

What difference does it make if they say it or not? They'll still be sad about the person's passing regardless. Still don't think the alternative is any better.

#37 Posted by Master_Live (14579 posts) -

Depression hurts, Cymbalta can help.

#38 Posted by Master_Live (14579 posts) -

@indzman said:

@Iszdope said:

I think I think about it every other day.

+2

#39 Edited by Korvus (3806 posts) -

@Aljosa23: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the opposite isn't selfishness...I have admitted that much in another suicide related threat. There's always a degree of selfishness to wanting our family to be safe...yeah, we want them to be safe for their own sake, but also because we don't want to lose them.

#40 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16756 posts) -

The real question here is "how long will it take before I stop hearing about Robin Williams and suicide?"

#41 Posted by Aljosa23 (24946 posts) -

@korvus said:

@Aljosa23: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the opposite isn't selfishness...I have admitted that much in another suicide related threat. There's always a degree of selfishness to wanting our family to be safe...yeah, we want them to be safe for their own sake, but also because we don't want to lose them.

The thing that bothers me about calling the act of suicide as "selfish" (I'm speaking generally) in any way implies that there is an alternative. When for that particular person there isn't another option. People with mental problems aren't thinking straight so it's absurd to judge them based on the logic of a healthy individual. You're not expecting someone with a broken leg to walk like someone with a healthy pair of legs so there's no reason to expect sound logic from someone with a crippling mental disorder.

I also think it's just a very dickish thing to do. Someone important died who was loved by a lot of people so dishing out accusations about the deceased a day after their death is just not cool.

#42 Posted by Master_Live (14579 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer said:

The real question here is "how long will it take before I stop hearing about Robin Williams and suicide?"

Never, at least here, OT is suicide central.

#43 Posted by Aljosa23 (24946 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer said:

The real question here is "how long will it take before I stop hearing about Robin Williams and suicide?"

#firstworldproblems

#44 Edited by comp_atkins (31418 posts) -

i'll avoid judging other peoples' actions regarding suicide. i'm not in their situation, how could i even being to think i know or don't know what's going on in their heads?

#45 Posted by Korvus (3806 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@korvus said:

@Aljosa23: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the opposite isn't selfishness...I have admitted that much in another suicide related threat. There's always a degree of selfishness to wanting our family to be safe...yeah, we want them to be safe for their own sake, but also because we don't want to lose them.

The thing that bothers me about calling the act of suicide as "selfish" (I'm speaking generally) in any way implies that there is an alternative. When for that particular person there isn't another option. People with mental problems aren't thinking straight so it's absurd to judge them based on the logic of a healthy individual. You're not expecting someone with a broken leg to walk like someone with a healthy pair of legs so there's no reason to expect sound logic from someone with a crippling mental disorder.

I also think it's just a very dickish thing to do. Someone important died who was loved by a lot of people so dishing out accusations about the deceased a day after their death is just not cool.

Nowhere didn't I say that people should be judged by it...I just said selfishness is involved, with it being one of the symptoms of depression and all... And you're the one who brought up Robin Williams, I'm discussing things in general so I'd appreciate if you didn't just assume. THAT was a dickish comment...I'm treating this as another thread about suicide, just like any other that has showed up recently (there seems to be a whole lot of talk about suicide these past few weeks).

#46 Posted by Aljosa23 (24946 posts) -

@korvus said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@korvus said:

@Aljosa23: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the opposite isn't selfishness...I have admitted that much in another suicide related threat. There's always a degree of selfishness to wanting our family to be safe...yeah, we want them to be safe for their own sake, but also because we don't want to lose them.

The thing that bothers me about calling the act of suicide as "selfish" (I'm speaking generally) in any way implies that there is an alternative. When for that particular person there isn't another option. People with mental problems aren't thinking straight so it's absurd to judge them based on the logic of a healthy individual. You're not expecting someone with a broken leg to walk like someone with a healthy pair of legs so there's no reason to expect sound logic from someone with a crippling mental disorder.

I also think it's just a very dickish thing to do. Someone important died who was loved by a lot of people so dishing out accusations about the deceased a day after their death is just not cool.

Nowhere didn't I say that people should be judged by it...I just said selfishness is involved, with it being one of the symptoms of depression and all... And you're the one who brought up Robin Williams, I'm discussing things in general so I'd appreciate if you didn't just assume. THAT was a dickish comment...I'm treating this as another thread about suicide, just like any other that has showed up recently (there seems to be a whole lot of talk about suicide these past few weeks).

I never said you said anything lol I told you I was speaking generally but just quoted you to keep the discussion going. Apologies if you took that the wrong way.

#47 Posted by Korvus (3806 posts) -

@Aljosa23: In that case I apologise as well. I read it as you saying I was calling Robin William selfish for committing suicide. Last thing I want to do is call anyone anything, especially people who are/were suffering like he apparently was. I find it ok to discuss problems/illnesses and anything else in the abstract, but to just take someone's death, sit on my high horse and spit on them is not my style, and I felt a bit hurt that you thought otherwise. Sorry for the misunderstanding...I'm hot headed, sorry ^_^

#48 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16756 posts) -

@Aljosa23: Well hey, I live in the first world and I don't want to hear about this guy's death for the next year.

You know it's funny that you say that because with all the horrible shit going on in the world today you jut know that this is going to be making headlines for a good long while.

#49 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151051 posts) -

@SaintLeonidas said:

Depression is a mental illness. To say someone who kills themselves because of it is selfish is a truly ignorant thing to say. With depression, and many mental illnesses, the person suffering from it has little to NO control over their emotions and often their actions. Doesn't matter how much money or fame they have. Doesn't matter if they truly love and care for their family or friends. Depression consumes them. Unfortunately it gets to the point in which it tricks them into thinking that death is the only release. I fail to see how that could ever be considered selfish.

Clinical depression is a mental illness. Everyone gets depressed though now and then but that is not a mental illness. Just wanted to clarify that.

Anyway I'd imagine there is something going on for someone to take such a drastic step....it's unfortunate....and it's final....when successful. Shame because I think some suicides would not have occurred with more time. I don't judge them though. Like I said...it's a shame and I wish they'd gotten help.

#50 Posted by playmynutz (5983 posts) -

Lets pledge on gamespot to commit mass suicide and debate it on the other side.

(Had a dream life is like the Matrix movie)