USA dead last in healthcare

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#1 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

Compared to other developed nations, US is dead last

#2 Posted by dave123321 (34133 posts) -

Hopefully Obama can save us

#3 Posted by airshocker (29872 posts) -

I thought Obamacare was supposed to make health care the best in the world?

Thanks Obama.

#4 Edited by dave123321 (34133 posts) -

@airshocker: maybe the unhampered version but partisan politics made sure to screw us in order to screw the party lines

#5 Edited by Master_Live (14806 posts) -

Better if you provide a link.

#6 Posted by airshocker (29872 posts) -

@dave123321 said:

@airshocker: maybe the unhampered version but partisan politics made sure to screw us in order to screw the party lines

I bet it would have been fine if there was actual discussion on the thing. But I doubt any governing body would have been capable of discussing such a monstrosity.

#7 Posted by ferrari2001 (16967 posts) -

What would you expect when our hospitals and patients are basically held hostage by the pharmaceutical companies who charge outrages prices for necessary medications that should be free, or at least very little cost. The terrible patent laws in this country are also to blame. Add on the fact that doctors are not adequately protected from lawsuits we should expect healthcare costs to continue to rise despite more people becoming insured. It just means more money in the pockets of rich pharmaceutical owners.

#8 Edited by jasean79 (2375 posts) -

#9 Edited by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@Master_Live: they didn't provide any unfortunately

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

#10 Posted by jasean79 (2375 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

"No it's not."

Signed,

US Taxpayer

#11 Posted by airshocker (29872 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

No, it's really not. Forcing people who were already barely scraping by to only work 29 hours a week isn't a good thing. Lying about people being able to keep their previous health care plans isn't a good thing. Raising premiums for a lot of people isn't a good thing. Creating a system where the cost of health insurance and not healthcare is subsidized isn't a good thing.

Don't talk about Obamacare when you clearly don't have a clue about it.

SOURCE

#12 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

"No it's not."

Signed,

US Taxpayer

How can you say that? Everyone is insured here and healthcare is way better. Before Medicare you were screwed if you got injured or sick, or god forbid got something like cancer

#13 Posted by samanthademeste (1141 posts) -

I wonder what the frat boys will say.

#14 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

Holy fucking shit, that made my day! XD

You're my best friend now, whether you like it or not. :P

#15 Posted by jasean79 (2375 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

"No it's not."

Signed,

US Taxpayer

How can you say that? Everyone is insured here and healthcare is way better. Before Medicare you were screwed if you got injured or sick, or god forbid got something like cancer

That's Europe, this is America. It's like apples and oranges.

#16 Edited by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

No, it's really not. Forcing people who were already barely scraping by to only work 29 hours a week isn't a good thing. Lying about people being able to keep their previous health care plans isn't a good thing. Raising premiums for a lot of people isn't a good thing. Creating a system where the cost of health insurance and not healthcare is subsidized isn't a good thing.

Don't talk about Obamacare when you clearly don't have a clue about it.

SOURCE

Then why do we in europe do the same? We don't have a problem with the system, americans clearly don't have a clue on how to get a functional healtcare system. Just look at Cuba or Canada, they got better healthcare than you...

#17 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@jasean79: No it's not, if countries like Germany and France are able to do it, then you should be able aswell. Hell not all states have even applied Obama care like Texas

#18 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

"No it's not."

Signed,

US Taxpayer

How can you say that? Everyone is insured here and healthcare is way better. Before Medicare you were screwed if you got injured or sick, or god forbid got something like cancer

That's Europe, this is America. It's like apples and oranges.

lol

what a dumb thing to say

#19 Posted by dave123321 (34133 posts) -

@jasean79: do you understand d what those gifs mean?

#20 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79: No it's not, if countries like Germany and France are able to do it, then you should be able aswell. Hell not all states have even applied Obama care like Texas

nah bro this is 'merica, empire of the world

our secret is that we get stronger as a nation from the rotting corpses of the uninsured

#21 Edited by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79: No it's not, if countries like Germany and France are able to do it, then you should be able aswell. Hell not all states have even applied Obama care like Texas

nah bro this is 'merica, empire of the world

our secret is that we get stronger as a nation from the rotting corpses of the uninsured

That should be the republican motto

#22 Posted by jasean79 (2375 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79: No it's not, if countries like Germany and France are able to do it, then you should be able aswell. Hell not all states have even applied Obama care like Texas

Did you read airshocker's response? Maybe you should go read it again. Might help you get a better grip on the situation we're dealing with now.

#23 Posted by jasean79 (2375 posts) -

@dave123321 said:

@jasean79: do you understand d what those gifs mean?

Yep, I understand the sarcasm of the meme.

#24 Posted by ferrari2001 (16967 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

No, it's really not. Forcing people who were already barely scraping by to only work 29 hours a week isn't a good thing. Lying about people being able to keep their previous health care plans isn't a good thing. Raising premiums for a lot of people isn't a good thing. Creating a system where the cost of health insurance and not healthcare is subsidized isn't a good thing.

Don't talk about Obamacare when you clearly don't have a clue about it.

SOURCE

Then why do we in europe do the same? We don't have a problem with the system, americans clearly don't have a clue on how to get a functional healtcare system. Just look at Cuba or Canada, they got better healthcare than you...

Europeans don't do the same. Obamacare is a travesty. It isn't healthcare like other industrial nations have. It keeps the same kind of care that the country already has but requires individuals to purchase, with their own paychecks, that inferior healthcare. While at the same time forcing businesses to decrease the number of hours it's employees work, putting the burden completely on the consumer. It lowers incomes and raises costs. European healthcare markets on the other hand employee the entire population of the country to feed into the healthcare costs, balancing out the cost among individuals making the burden more manageable for individuals. Not to mention they don't have terrible pharmaceutical laws that increase the cost of vital medications. The U.S. health system is incredibly flawed, and the affordable care act, while insuring more people, does nothing to solve the underlying problems. I do believe that a type of universal healthcare is necessary in the United States, but how that can be implemented effectively, I have no idea, especially considering the power that hospitals and drug companies have over both the government and the normal consumer. Although one plus is that Americans sacrifice healthcare, but provide the world with breakthrough pharmaceuticals and treatment options that no other country has the resources to develop. Although this comes at a huge cost to the everyday individual and is attributed to the huge profits hospitals and drug companies make, which they can't really make anywhere else.

#25 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79: No it's not, if countries like Germany and France are able to do it, then you should be able aswell. Hell not all states have even applied Obama care like Texas

Did you read airshocker's response? Maybe you should go read it again. Might help you get a better grip on the situation we're dealing with now.

I know the situation you're dealing with, you're in debt and borrowing from China. The conservatives refuse to increase taxes on the rich and only want to cut spending. But don't want to cut in military. Did i miss anything? Oh and the congress is the least effecient in history and there were a total of 8 fillibusters in total before Obama was elected(or something like that). The last two terms had close to 50. That should say something. Senators do what the rich tells them to vote on. Am i still wrong? Citizen United is the worst thing to ever happen your country combined with mccutcheon decision.

#26 Posted by killzowned24 (7345 posts) -

Still got the best doctors and hospitals tho. Lots will come to the states because of better care.

#27 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@ferrari2001 said:

Europeans don't do the same. Obamacare is a travesty. It isn't healthcare like other industrial nations have.

Switzerland has pretty much the same model.

#28 Posted by jasean79 (2375 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79: No it's not, if countries like Germany and France are able to do it, then you should be able aswell. Hell not all states have even applied Obama care like Texas

Did you read airshocker's response? Maybe you should go read it again. Might help you get a better grip on the situation we're dealing with now.

I know the situation you're dealing with, you're in debt and borrowing from China. The conservatives refuse to increase taxes on the rich and only want to cut spending. But don't want to cut in military. Did i miss anything? Oh and the congress is the least effecient in history and there were a total of 8 fillibusters in total before Obama was elected(or something like that). The last two terms had close to 50. That should say something. Senators do what the rich tells them to vote on. Am i still wrong? Citizen United is the worst thing to ever happen your country combined with mccutcheon decision.

Oh so now you're a political science major too? Nice!

#29 Posted by ferrari2001 (16967 posts) -

@killzowned24 said:

Still got the best doctors and hospitals tho. Lots will come to the states because of better care.

It's not necessarily better care, it's the fact that we can provide healing options that no other country can. This is attributed to the fact that the drug companies and hospitals make such an incredibly large profit off of the American people they are able to spend that excess money researching new treatment options that no other countries health system can afford to employ, at least to the same level the U.S. can. For normal everyday operations and check-ups that the majority of people will undergo, the United States certainly isn't better.

#30 Posted by dave123321 (34133 posts) -

I was an eco and comp sci major

#31 Edited by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@ferrari2001: So Obama should have done nothing? IT does suck, but not it sucks less. What did you expect when all the congress did when he tried getting it passed was to block the fuck out of it?

@jasean79: No, i am not. I never said i was. I know what you're country does and doesn't do (mostly).

#32 Posted by jasean79 (2375 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79: No, i am not. I never said i was. I know what you're country does and doesn't do (mostly).

Right through reading about it. Reading about something and living it are a lot different. Come spend some time over here as a middle working class citizen and then tell me if you still feel the same about universal healthcare and our political system.

#33 Posted by ferrari2001 (16967 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@ferrari2001: So Obama should have done nothing? IT does suck, but not it sucks less. What did you expect when all the congress did when he tried getting it passed was to block the fuck out of it?

That I didn't claim. Only that the ACA does nothing to fix the problem of healthcare in this country. The European model is clearly superior.

#34 Posted by dave123321 (34133 posts) -

I can vouch for whatever the last ride has said itt

#35 Posted by BranKetra (48742 posts) -

@airshocker said:

I thought Obamacare was supposed to make health care the best in the world?

Thanks Obama.

Ridiculous

#36 Posted by sonicare (53485 posts) -

Maybe the US should stop subsidizing the rest of the worlds prescription drugs.

#37 Posted by airshocker (29872 posts) -
@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

No, it's really not. Forcing people who were already barely scraping by to only work 29 hours a week isn't a good thing. Lying about people being able to keep their previous health care plans isn't a good thing. Raising premiums for a lot of people isn't a good thing. Creating a system where the cost of health insurance and not healthcare is subsidized isn't a good thing.

Don't talk about Obamacare when you clearly don't have a clue about it.

SOURCE

Then why do we in europe do the same? We don't have a problem with the system, americans clearly don't have a clue on how to get a functional healtcare system. Just look at Cuba or Canada, they got better healthcare than you...


Oh man, nice straw man! How about you focus on what we were just discussing instead of backtracking because you were wrong?

#38 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

Well France is like #1...if you want their 60% income tax you too can have "free" healthcare.

#39 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jasean79: No, i am not. I never said i was. I know what you're country does and doesn't do (mostly).

Right through reading about it. Reading about something and living it are a lot different. Come spend some time over here as a middle working class citizen and then tell me if you still feel the same about universal healthcare and our political system.

True, but i know the difference between not being able to save your arm because you can't afford it and having an arm for example.

#40 Posted by ferrari2001 (16967 posts) -
@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@ferrari2001 said:

Europeans don't do the same. Obamacare is a travesty. It isn't healthcare like other industrial nations have.

Switzerland has pretty much the same model.

That may very well be, but Switzerland also has a population of only 8 million people and a average income of almost double that of America. A system like the ACA will obviously work vastly different in a country with such a low number of people and higher wages.

#41 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@ferrari2001 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@ferrari2001: So Obama should have done nothing? IT does suck, but not it sucks less. What did you expect when all the congress did when he tried getting it passed was to block the fuck out of it?

That I didn't claim. Only that the ACA does nothing to fix the problem of healthcare in this country. The European model is clearly superior.

There is no "European model" aside from a guarantee in every European country, every citizen will have health care. How each of these countries go about doing that differs greatly. To repeat, the US health care system as it stands today with Obamacare is pretty much the same model as in Switzerland.

There is no "the problem" of health care in this country. There is a laundry list of problems. The ACA did fix one of the more egregious problems associated with our health care system, that being that there were tens of millions of people in this country who didn't have health insurance, and of those people, tens of thousands of them were dying every year because of that lack of insurance.

#42 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@airshocker: You can't blame that on Obama for companies that barely pay minimum wage for being sleazy... These big companies make billions like Walmart and the employes have to live on foodstamps

#43 Posted by airshocker (29872 posts) -
@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@airshocker: it was actually worse before, having millions of people uninsured actually made the situation worse mate. If anything it's the best thing to have happend in the last decade in the us

No, it's really not. Forcing people who were already barely scraping by to only work 29 hours a week isn't a good thing. Lying about people being able to keep their previous health care plans isn't a good thing. Raising premiums for a lot of people isn't a good thing. Creating a system where the cost of health insurance and not healthcare is subsidized isn't a good thing.

Don't talk about Obamacare when you clearly don't have a clue about it.

SOURCE

Then why do we in europe do the same? We don't have a problem with the system, americans clearly don't have a clue on how to get a functional healtcare system. Just look at Cuba or Canada, they got better healthcare than you...

I can certainly blame Obama for what his law did. Before his law part-time employees could work as many hours as their employers wanted to give them. After ObamaCare they're capped at 29 hours.

Stay focused, buddy. I know it's hard. But you can do it!

#44 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@airshocker: Then why did congress water it down this much hmm? Conservatives have crapped on this since day 1, stay focused dude. I know you can't be this ignorant ;)

#45 Posted by ferrari2001 (16967 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@ferrari2001 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@ferrari2001: So Obama should have done nothing? IT does suck, but not it sucks less. What did you expect when all the congress did when he tried getting it passed was to block the fuck out of it?

That I didn't claim. Only that the ACA does nothing to fix the problem of healthcare in this country. The European model is clearly superior.

There is no "the problem" of health care in this country. There is a laundry list of problems. The ACA did fix one of the more egregious problems associated with our health care system, that being that there were tens of millions of people in this country who didn't have health insurance, and of those people, tens of thousands of them were dying every year because of that lack of insurance.

Except the fact that the CBO still predicts that by 2023, 30 million people will still be uninsured. It doesn't really fix the problem of people being uninsured. Sure more people are still insured, but 30 million individuals lacking healthcare a decade after the passing of the ACA is still troubling.

#46 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@ferrari2001: If the states would actually implement it, then i don't think it would be a problem

#47 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@ferrari2001 said:
@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@ferrari2001 said:

Europeans don't do the same. Obamacare is a travesty. It isn't healthcare like other industrial nations have.

Switzerland has pretty much the same model.

That may very well be, but Switzerland also has a population of only 8 million people and a average income of almost double that of America. A system like the ACA will obviously work vastly different in a country with such a low number of people and higher wages.

If it's obvious shouldn't be too hard for you to prove it then.

#48 Posted by ferrari2001 (16967 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@ferrari2001 said:
@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@ferrari2001 said:

Europeans don't do the same. Obamacare is a travesty. It isn't healthcare like other industrial nations have.

Switzerland has pretty much the same model.

That may very well be, but Switzerland also has a population of only 8 million people and a average income of almost double that of America. A system like the ACA will obviously work vastly different in a country with such a low number of people and higher wages.

If it's obvious shouldn't be too hard for you to prove it then.

pretty sure the CBO has proven it for me. It works in Switzerland, it isn't working here, at least in the next decade. The last thing I thought would happen would be me of all people defending a single payer system.

#49 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72269 posts) -

@airshocker: Also why are 7/10 happy with Obamacare?

#50 Posted by vl4d_l3nin (971 posts) -

and yet they spend the most on it.

Economic liberty!