The Real Reasons College Is a Bad Investment.

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#1 Edited by loco145 (10852 posts) -

Not so long ago, young adults were sent to college for the purpose of becoming educated, socially aware members of society. The goal of a college education was the learning process itself and the acquisition of beneficial knowledge.

But something changed. Along the way, colleges realized that their graduates were given priority in the job market. College diplomas transitioned from simple indications of education to bargaining chips holding measurable monetary value. People started noticing the increase in net value associated with a college degree.

And just like any other private business, colleges across the country responded to rising demand with significantly higher prices. At this point -- at this price -- college was no longer simply an educational experience; it became an investment.

Today, young adults pay thousands of dollars to colleges for one reason: to get jobs. And yet every year, too many kids are walking off their campuses with expensive degrees and no jobs.

Here are the real reasons why college is a bad investment:

1. It's debatable whether colleges even offer valuable information anymore

2. The educational value you do receive can easily be acquired elsewhere

3. For 90 percent of careers, all required skills are learned on the job

Source.

#2 Posted by playmynutz (6391 posts) -

Textbook companies are hustling education. My school loans seem reasonable

#3 Posted by Nibroc420 (13571 posts) -

So long as you're not spending $50,000 to learn how to weave baskets, college can be a good idea.

#4 Edited by magicalclick (23995 posts) -

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

#5 Posted by Nibroc420 (13571 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Then again, someone with lots of work experience and references, could easily be considered a hard worker.
Someone who graduated High school, and went to study English for 4 years on daddy's dime, doesn't have to have the greatest work ethic, and probably hasn't seen a day of "work" in their life.

#6 Edited by magicalclick (23995 posts) -

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Then again, someone with lots of work experience and references, could easily be considered a hard worker.

Someone who graduated High school, and went to study English for 4 years on daddy's dime, doesn't have to have the greatest work ethic, and probably hasn't seen a day of "work" in their life.

Sure, if you have a good working experiences and references AFTER you worked for many years AND have good relationship with your peers. Getting your feet inside when you just get out of high school is entirely different story when you don't have anything to show.

#7 Edited by Nibroc420 (13571 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Then again, someone with lots of work experience and references, could easily be considered a hard worker.

Someone who graduated High school, and went to study English for 4 years on daddy's dime, doesn't have to have the greatest work ethic, and probably hasn't seen a day of "work" in their life.

Sure, if you have a good working experiences and references AFTER you worked for many years AND have good relationship with your peers. Getting your feet inside when you just get out of high school is entirely different story when you don't have anything to show.

It's not hard to get a job, people are just insanely picky these days.

Even if you worked at Mcdonalds for 2 years. At least you've had a job, you understand what "work" is, and you haven't gone through life holding mommy & daddy's hand.
I've met a few people who've gone to college immediately after high-school, and they can't handle working a part-time job claiming "It's too stressful"

You can get all the degrees you'd like, but if you're lazy, and have little work ethic, those degrees mean nothing in the long-term.

Then again, many degrees are useless, even if you have experience and solid work ethics.

#8 Posted by Master_Live (15832 posts) -

No.

#9 Edited by HoolaHoopMan (7892 posts) -

Your level of education is usually directly proportional to your income. With that being said, not all schools are equal and certainly not all degrees are equal.

Usually the people who argue that a post secondary education is useless are the folks who decided not too pursue one and are trying hard to justify their decision.

#10 Edited by chessmaster1989 (29772 posts) -

Keep trying to justify your decision not to go to college to yourself.

#11 Edited by magicalclick (23995 posts) -

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Then again, someone with lots of work experience and references, could easily be considered a hard worker.

Someone who graduated High school, and went to study English for 4 years on daddy's dime, doesn't have to have the greatest work ethic, and probably hasn't seen a day of "work" in their life.

Sure, if you have a good working experiences and references AFTER you worked for many years AND have good relationship with your peers. Getting your feet inside when you just get out of high school is entirely different story when you don't have anything to show.

It's not hard to get a job, people are just insanely picky these days.

Even if you worked at Mcdonalds for 2 years. At least you've had a job, you understand what "work" is, and you haven't gone through life holding mommy & daddy's hand.

I've met a few people who've gone to college immediately after high-school, and they can't handle working a part-time job claiming "It's too stressful"

You can get all the degrees you'd like, but if you're lazy, and have little work ethic, those degrees mean nothing in the long-term.

Then again, many degrees are useless, even if you have experience and solid work ethics.

And there are many people in school having part time jobs to pay for tuition. If not, they also have internship in much better company and having much better internship job. What's your leverage to compete with that? I don't mind people taking their own path on their career. Not all career requires a degree. Some degrees actual over qualify for some jobs. Education is certainly not everything. Some careers are strictly street smart, for example, sales agent would be one major example.

But, if you do choose to work straight out of high school, you better have a good vision and plan on your future. Because you are choosing your career much sooner than others. And it will be hard to change your career with lessor degrees. You have a head start in your career. But, know that, some doors are harder to bust if you don't have a better degree.

And know that, there are tons of competitions out there. So, why you? You think your experience worth more? Many of your competitions got good education, internship at big company, or many years of working experience as well, and most importantly, have fresh new ideas from the school (exceptional important for tech company) that can revolutionize the industry. So, why you? They are much better in comparison. You put all your chip in working experiences, but, others, they chips in all of them.

#12 Posted by Glitter (355 posts) -

I do not know what to do anymore, I have been trying to get my degree for a long period of time.

#13 Posted by Brain_Duster (473 posts) -

TC, you fuck-up.

#14 Edited by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Keeping your nose in books and/or your mouth around the beer bong for a few extra years is no indicator of a person's ability or willingness to do manual labor.

#15 Edited by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

There are many paths to success that don't involve a college degree. I think the problem is that everyone assumes that "going to college = high paying job" when it reality it's much more than that such as experience from internships and self-learning (teaching yourself a language or skill) to even your meaningless part-time job.

It's what you put into it and it's not just college but, for example, going from part-time to corporate, PFC to Colonel, or whatever. It's what you put into it.

#16 Posted by loco145 (10852 posts) -

@Brain_Duster said:

TC, you fuck-up.

Huh?

#17 Edited by Star67 (3458 posts) -

Its not that college is bad and you can't get anything out of it....its the fact that college has become a need after highschool to the point a highschool degree is worthless. Think about it.....every kid is told to go to college so guess what? Just about every kid goes, but the thing is most of them don't finish and end up in thousands of dollars worth of debt. Plus half the people in college shouldn't be there any way. I can't count the number of people Ive had in class that were dumb as dirt. These people are making college degrees worthless. Plus most people are just at a C average, which is insanely easy to do in today's college system. Why should someone with a C average have the same degree as someone with a 3.5 or higher? But with Universities wanting money rather than actually giving people education that won't change.

#18 Edited by magicalclick (23995 posts) -

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Keeping your nose in books and/or your mouth around the beer bong for a few extra years is no indicator of a person's ability or willingness to do manual labor.

Unfortunately I don't know what's beer bong. I assume it is one of those crazy Animal House kind of party activity, which I have zero interest. That's my own weakness of course, because I will never be able to socialize with these type of people, hence I limited my own growth when I need to have such personality to mingle with others. But, let's be clear. Life is part responsibility and part play. I don't think crazy party is a bad thing as long as they can manage it. Few people can party very hard and still stay ahead of their education and career. And they are quite admirable. I know I can't compete like that, so, I didn't party as much.

#20 Edited by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Keeping your nose in books and/or your mouth around the beer bong for a few extra years is no indicator of a person's ability or willingness to do manual labor.

Unfortunately I don't know what's beer bong. I assume it is one of those crazy Animal House kind of party activity, which I have zero interest. That's my own weakness of course, because I will never be able to socialize with these type of people, hence I limited my own growth when I need to have such personality to mingle with others. But, let's be clear. Life is part responsibility and part play. I don't think crazy party is a bad thing as long as they can manage it. Few people can party very hard and still stay ahead of their education and career. And they are quite admirable. I know I can't compete like that, so, I didn't party as much.

Ok. Did you actually read my post beyond "beer bong"?

#21 Posted by HuggyBear1020 (467 posts) -

A good rule of thumb, if you chose your major because it's "easy", drop out of school and go get a job. You'll be making the same money you'd be making when you graduate, and you won't have all the school debt to pay back. Now if you chose your major because it's a high-demand field and what you are learning applies directly to the line of work you want to go into, then by all means stay in school.

#22 Edited by DonQuixote (126 posts) -

These points

1. It's debatable whether colleges even offer valuable information anymore

2. The educational value you do receive can easily be acquired elsewhere

Are absolute nonsense. College offers incredibly valuable information that will make you infinitely more knowledgeable/cultured which will help you in anything you do in the future (of course this only happens if you are actually there to learn) This value cannot be easily acquired elsewhere. It would be next to impossible to know/learn, for example, what I know and have the experience that I have without having gone to college. One can learn things and become successful without it, but to say you can easily acquire the education you get in college is absurd. It would take A LOT.

The fact that most people no longer value education and solely go to school to get jobs is indeed true and a shame. People are idiots and do not realize that they will never live happy lives if they do not actualize themselves and find work that is rewarding and in accordance with who they are. Most people are unhappy and strongly dislike their jobs... why? Because of this soulless attitude towards life. College kids, for the most part, have no idea what it means to work. Once they start working a job they have no interest in... the misery slowly sets in. Be careful with what you chose and do not listen to these people who tell you to go to school to make money. Not that there is anything wrong with making money, but you should make it the right way.

#23 Posted by xrockerboy (42 posts) -

guys get over this topic, even if you are right about college, which youre not cause if you wanna be an engineer or have a high standard work other than handing burgers in Mcdonalds then u cant learn during the job, and if u could the shitty society we live in today wont accept it its like a rule no degree = youre fucked. unless youre really lucky

#25 Edited by TacticalDesire (10713 posts) -

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Then again, someone with lots of work experience and references, could easily be considered a hard worker.

Someone who graduated High school, and went to study English for 4 years on daddy's dime, doesn't have to have the greatest work ethic, and probably hasn't seen a day of "work" in their life.

Sure, if you have a good working experiences and references AFTER you worked for many years AND have good relationship with your peers. Getting your feet inside when you just get out of high school is entirely different story when you don't have anything to show.

It's not hard to get a job, people are just insanely picky these days.

Even if you worked at Mcdonalds for 2 years. At least you've had a job, you understand what "work" is, and you haven't gone through life holding mommy & daddy's hand.

I've met a few people who've gone to college immediately after high-school, and they can't handle working a part-time job claiming "It's too stressful"

You can get all the degrees you'd like, but if you're lazy, and have little work ethic, those degrees mean nothing in the long-term.

Then again, many degrees are useless, even if you have experience and solid work ethics.

That's why employers hiring those right out of college often look at GPA, which is a fairly good indicator of work-ethic. Someone who isn't a hard-worker is not going to graduate with a top-tier GPA no matter how smart they are, unless their university is an absolute joke.

#26 Posted by TacticalDesire (10713 posts) -

@huggybear1020 said:

A good rule of thumb, if you chose your major because it's "easy", drop out of school and go get a job. You'll be making the same money you'd be making when you graduate, and you won't have all the school debt to pay back. Now if you chose your major because it's a high-demand field and what you are learning applies directly to the line of work you want to go into, then by all means stay in school.

Choosing your major based on ease is a horrible idea (though I have no idea who does that), but choosing your major because it relates to a high-demand field is equally stupid. High-demand jobs are often very fickle and subject to trends. There was a recent article in the Wall St. Journal about the dangers of too specialized of an education, and studying for something simply because it is in demand.

One of the administrators at Texas A&M this year cautioned some of the incoming freshman wishing to be Petroleum Engineers at the school, (as it is apparently a very popular major there), as analysis shows that those jobs are very likely to wane over the next decade or so. If you really insist on choosing a major because it is in a high-demand field, you should at least look at the long-term analysis concerning the field, and not just the short-term trends.

#27 Posted by SolidSnake35 (58235 posts) -

If I hadn't gone to university, I don't know what I'd have done with my life. One thing is certain, though: It would've been boring.

#28 Posted by magicalclick (23995 posts) -

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Keeping your nose in books and/or your mouth around the beer bong for a few extra years is no indicator of a person's ability or willingness to do manual labor.

Unfortunately I don't know what's beer bong. I assume it is one of those crazy Animal House kind of party activity, which I have zero interest. That's my own weakness of course, because I will never be able to socialize with these type of people, hence I limited my own growth when I need to have such personality to mingle with others. But, let's be clear. Life is part responsibility and part play. I don't think crazy party is a bad thing as long as they can manage it. Few people can party very hard and still stay ahead of their education and career. And they are quite admirable. I know I can't compete like that, so, I didn't party as much.

Ok. Did you actually read my post beyond "beer bong"?

Since I cannot keep my mouth around the beer bong, what's the point to read what you are about to say? Your pre-condition is already false.

#30 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

@SNIPER4321 said:

Collage is for education but sadly new idiot generation make collage a dating point.

thats why im against co education and collage should be saperated for guys and girls, collage should only have education and no useless activities like party dancing blah blah blah.

lol collage...

#31 Posted by magicalclick (23995 posts) -

@SNIPER4321 said:

Collage is for education but sadly new idiot generation make collage a dating point.

thats why im against co education and collage should be saperated for guys and girls, collage should only have education and no useless activities like party dancing blah blah blah.

Don't worry. The awesome immigrants will just replace new idiot generation. It has always been like this and worked pretty well for USA.

#32 Posted by thegerg (16120 posts) -

@SNIPER4321 said:

Collage is for education but sadly new idiot generation make collage a dating point.

thats why im against co education and collage should be saperated for guys and girls, collage should only have education and no useless activities like party dancing blah blah blah.

"im against co education"

Your post leads me to believe that you're against education in general.

#33 Edited by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Keeping your nose in books and/or your mouth around the beer bong for a few extra years is no indicator of a person's ability or willingness to do manual labor.

Unfortunately I don't know what's beer bong. I assume it is one of those crazy Animal House kind of party activity, which I have zero interest. That's my own weakness of course, because I will never be able to socialize with these type of people, hence I limited my own growth when I need to have such personality to mingle with others. But, let's be clear. Life is part responsibility and part play. I don't think crazy party is a bad thing as long as they can manage it. Few people can party very hard and still stay ahead of their education and career. And they are quite admirable. I know I can't compete like that, so, I didn't party as much.

Ok. Did you actually read my post beyond "beer bong"?

Since I cannot keep my mouth around the beer bong, what's the point to read what you are about to say? Your pre-condition is already false.

If you would have read my entire post (yeah, I know it's overwhelmingly long) you'd see what my point was.

#34 Edited by HuggyBear1020 (467 posts) -

@TacticalDesire said:

@huggybear1020 said:

A good rule of thumb, if you chose your major because it's "easy", drop out of school and go get a job. You'll be making the same money you'd be making when you graduate, and you won't have all the school debt to pay back. Now if you chose your major because it's a high-demand field and what you are learning applies directly to the line of work you want to go into, then by all means stay in school.

Choosing your major based on ease is a horrible idea (though I have no idea who does that), but choosing your major because it relates to a high-demand field is equally stupid. High-demand jobs are often very fickle and subject to trends. There was a recent article in the Wall St. Journal about the dangers of too specialized of an education, and studying for something simply because it is in demand.

One of the administrators at Texas A&M this year cautioned some of the incoming freshman wishing to be Petroleum Engineers at the school, (as it is apparently a very popular major there), as analysis shows that those jobs are very likely to wane over the next decade or so. If you really insist on choosing a major because it is in a high-demand field, you should at least look at the long-term analysis concerning the field, and not just the short-term trends.

There's always a demand for petroleum engineers. The only change is that there is more demand domestically, but there's been an international demand for over a century.

#35 Posted by Bardock47 (5370 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Keeping your nose in books and/or your mouth around the beer bong for a few extra years is no indicator of a person's ability or willingness to do manual labor.

Unfortunately I don't know what's beer bong. I assume it is one of those crazy Animal House kind of party activity, which I have zero interest. That's my own weakness of course, because I will never be able to socialize with these type of people, hence I limited my own growth when I need to have such personality to mingle with others. But, let's be clear. Life is part responsibility and part play. I don't think crazy party is a bad thing as long as they can manage it. Few people can party very hard and still stay ahead of their education and career. And they are quite admirable. I know I can't compete like that, so, I didn't party as much.

Ok. Did you actually read my post beyond "beer bong"?

Since I cannot keep my mouth around the beer bong, what's the point to read what you are about to say? Your pre-condition is already false.

He is saying that four extra years at school isnt an indication they have a good work ethic.

#36 Edited by magicalclick (23995 posts) -

@Bardock47 said:

@magicalclick said:

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

@worlock77 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Keeping your nose in books and/or your mouth around the beer bong for a few extra years is no indicator of a person's ability or willingness to do manual labor.

Unfortunately I don't know what's beer bong. I assume it is one of those crazy Animal House kind of party activity, which I have zero interest. That's my own weakness of course, because I will never be able to socialize with these type of people, hence I limited my own growth when I need to have such personality to mingle with others. But, let's be clear. Life is part responsibility and part play. I don't think crazy party is a bad thing as long as they can manage it. Few people can party very hard and still stay ahead of their education and career. And they are quite admirable. I know I can't compete like that, so, I didn't party as much.

Ok. Did you actually read my post beyond "beer bong"?

Since I cannot keep my mouth around the beer bong, what's the point to read what you are about to say? Your pre-condition is already false.

He is saying that four extra years at school isnt an indication they have a good work ethic.

I will not disagree with that. If we really want to get down to a debate, yes, he is correct. Kudos for him on cherry picking little details.

#37 Edited by lamprey263 (25651 posts) -

college isn't a bad investment really, it's just I don't think students really know how to build upon the skills needed for the private sector as many don't have the experience seeking jobs, seeing what employers need from people so they can focus their skillset and degree around that

#38 Edited by magicalclick (23995 posts) -

1) the complain of GE course that makes up majority of your GPA.

When I transferred from cheap Community College to the College-College, my previous GPA was erased (mostly GE course). Thus, this did not apply to me.

2) the complain of crappy teachers.

The cheaper community college is more intimate with only 15 students in the C++ class instead of like 200 students in University. Teachers seem good IMO, they know what they are talking about and I believe I learned a lot, TAs are not so great. Of course, I only took two GE courses after transfer, so, I guess I skipped all the bad teachers.

3) Well, I am quite surprised by the following quote from the source. Why did biology majors end up in law firms? And music majors applying medical school??? Completely caught me off guard. If that's really true, WOW WOW WOW~~~~~ And followed by, Why in the world??? I get that, people who can read books really fast and memorize them are good candidate for medical schools and law schools. But, music major applying medical school? That is very hard to imagine.

Quote: For most careers, however, job-related skills are learned through an entry-level position. This is why music majors make up the highest percentage of medical school applicants. It's why biology majors end up in law firms and why anyone still dares to get a philosophy degree.

#39 Edited by -TheSecondSign- (9239 posts) -

GI Bill, son.

All the money, none of it out of my pocket.

So even if it is a bad investment, ain't my investment.

#40 Posted by Gaming-Planet (14470 posts) -

I use FAFSA so I don't have to pay a dime.

#Justminoritythings

#41 Posted by EnoshimaJunko (320 posts) -

@TacticalDesire said:

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Then again, someone with lots of work experience and references, could easily be considered a hard worker.

Someone who graduated High school, and went to study English for 4 years on daddy's dime, doesn't have to have the greatest work ethic, and probably hasn't seen a day of "work" in their life.

Sure, if you have a good working experiences and references AFTER you worked for many years AND have good relationship with your peers. Getting your feet inside when you just get out of high school is entirely different story when you don't have anything to show.

It's not hard to get a job, people are just insanely picky these days.

Even if you worked at Mcdonalds for 2 years. At least you've had a job, you understand what "work" is, and you haven't gone through life holding mommy & daddy's hand.

I've met a few people who've gone to college immediately after high-school, and they can't handle working a part-time job claiming "It's too stressful"

You can get all the degrees you'd like, but if you're lazy, and have little work ethic, those degrees mean nothing in the long-term.

Then again, many degrees are useless, even if you have experience and solid work ethics.

That's why employers hiring those right out of college often look at GPA, which is a fairly good indicator of work-ethic. Someone who isn't a hard-worker is not going to graduate with a top-tier GPA no matter how smart they are, unless their university is an absolute joke.

Really? Cuz I have a 3.4 GPA, and I'm lazy as all hell. So I'm inclined to disagree with that statement. And no, my college isn't some party college.

#42 Posted by achilles614 (4887 posts) -

@EnoshimaJunko said:

@TacticalDesire said:

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Then again, someone with lots of work experience and references, could easily be considered a hard worker.

Someone who graduated High school, and went to study English for 4 years on daddy's dime, doesn't have to have the greatest work ethic, and probably hasn't seen a day of "work" in their life.

Sure, if you have a good working experiences and references AFTER you worked for many years AND have good relationship with your peers. Getting your feet inside when you just get out of high school is entirely different story when you don't have anything to show.

It's not hard to get a job, people are just insanely picky these days.

Even if you worked at Mcdonalds for 2 years. At least you've had a job, you understand what "work" is, and you haven't gone through life holding mommy & daddy's hand.

I've met a few people who've gone to college immediately after high-school, and they can't handle working a part-time job claiming "It's too stressful"

You can get all the degrees you'd like, but if you're lazy, and have little work ethic, those degrees mean nothing in the long-term.

Then again, many degrees are useless, even if you have experience and solid work ethics.

That's why employers hiring those right out of college often look at GPA, which is a fairly good indicator of work-ethic. Someone who isn't a hard-worker is not going to graduate with a top-tier GPA no matter how smart they are, unless their university is an absolute joke.

Really? Cuz I have a 3.4 GPA, and I'm lazy as all hell. So I'm inclined to disagree with that statement. And no, my college isn't some party college.

Since when is a 3.4 GPA "top tier"? I know for my school's graduate program it sure isn't considered top tier.

#43 Posted by EnoshimaJunko (320 posts) -

@achilles614 said:

@EnoshimaJunko said:

@TacticalDesire said:

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

@Nibroc420 said:

@magicalclick said:

Disagree. I would much prefer to hire someone with higher education from a good school (cheaper public school with residential price is fine. don't care about people paying international price on schools). The reason is simple. They are willing to take the time to learn than others. They are able to learn the material. So, even if they don't have my industrial knowledge, they have shown their potentials. I cannot gauge one person's potential and willingness to earn from high school degree. That's risky.

Then again, someone with lots of work experience and references, could easily be considered a hard worker.

Someone who graduated High school, and went to study English for 4 years on daddy's dime, doesn't have to have the greatest work ethic, and probably hasn't seen a day of "work" in their life.

Sure, if you have a good working experiences and references AFTER you worked for many years AND have good relationship with your peers. Getting your feet inside when you just get out of high school is entirely different story when you don't have anything to show.

It's not hard to get a job, people are just insanely picky these days.

Even if you worked at Mcdonalds for 2 years. At least you've had a job, you understand what "work" is, and you haven't gone through life holding mommy & daddy's hand.

I've met a few people who've gone to college immediately after high-school, and they can't handle working a part-time job claiming "It's too stressful"

You can get all the degrees you'd like, but if you're lazy, and have little work ethic, those degrees mean nothing in the long-term.

Then again, many degrees are useless, even if you have experience and solid work ethics.

That's why employers hiring those right out of college often look at GPA, which is a fairly good indicator of work-ethic. Someone who isn't a hard-worker is not going to graduate with a top-tier GPA no matter how smart they are, unless their university is an absolute joke.

Really? Cuz I have a 3.4 GPA, and I'm lazy as all hell. So I'm inclined to disagree with that statement. And no, my college isn't some party college.

Since when is a 3.4 GPA "top tier"? I know for my school's graduate program it sure isn't considered top tier.

I wasn't saying that a 3.4 is top tier. I was saying that I got a somewhat good GPA with very little effort, which sorta debunks your previous claim. Also, I'm an undergrad, not a grad student.

#44 Edited by GazaAli (23825 posts) -

College education has become a bad investment because students stopped learning shit in there. The end is no longer about acquiring a thorough and deep understanding of a field, its rather the acquisition of the degree itself. Vast majority of students say to themselves and to each others "You just get that damn piece of paper with most minimum effort, you/we will figure out the rest later". Only thing is that by the time they get to "later", they realize just how much they're screwed. They find themselves intellectually and mentally worn out at the age of 23-24 thinking that they achieved something of value and that the time and resources they poured into the degree will now start to pay off. But in reality, they're just too deep in intellectual and personal stagnation and staleness after wasting a great deal of what should have been one of the most intellectually active and personally cultivating time of their lives. So briefly after graduation they become progressively aware of the scale of the mistakes they made. First of those mistakes is how they haphazardly chose their majors without any consideration or research on the job market and their own talents and shortcomings. In addition all the procrastination and plagiarism they used to boast about come to them and remind them just how ignorant and underachieving they are in the field of their choice. Another thing is how they find themselves aimless after graduation, unaware of what to do next. Employers want experience they don't have and no one was there to tell them about the value and necessity of internships and whatnot. All of this is just the tip of the iceberg, I could go on forever.

The problem is most academic institutions reinforce all of this and even encourage it whether academics realize it or not. Except for the world's most renowned universities, the quality of the teaching staff and its techniques is nonexistent most of the time. The administration is pretty apathetic and indifferent about the quality of its graduates and the education they're (or not) getting. They couldn't care less what happens to them after they're gone as long as they can afford their PR budget and attending conferences. Its like they allow anyone these days to open a university and start giving out degrees and starting departments and study programs. The world is filled with universities of which most are laughingstocks in the sphere of academia.

The academic world is in serious need of reconstruction and reconsideration. I'll make sure if I ever had a kid that he/she won't fall for the same mistakes I did.

#46 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

This loco guy is making threads with . . . the worst possible advice he could possibly hand out. I really hope he's simply trolling.

@GazaAli said:

College education has become a bad investment because students stopped learning shit in there. The end is no longer about acquiring a thorough and deep understanding of a field, its rather the acquisition of the degree itself. Vast majority of students say to themselves and to each others "You just get that damn piece of paper with most minimum effort, you/we will figure out the rest later". Only thing is that by the time they get to "later", they realize just how much they're screwed. They find themselves intellectually and mentally worn out at the age of 23-24 thinking that they achieved something of value and that the time and resources they poured into the degree will now start to pay off. But in reality, they're just too deep in intellectual and personal stagnation and staleness after wasting a great deal of what should have been one of the most intellectually active and personally cultivating time of their lives. So briefly after graduation they become progressively aware of the scale of the mistakes they made. First of those mistakes is how they haphazardly chose their majors without any consideration or research on the job market and their own talents and shortcomings. In addition all the procrastination and plagiarism they used to boast about come to them and remind them just how ignorant and underachieving they are in the field of their choice. Another thing is how they find themselves aimless after graduation, unaware of what to do next. Employers want experience they don't have and no one was there to tell them about the value and necessity of internships and whatnot. All of this is just the tip of the iceberg, I could go on forever.

The problem is most academic institutions reinforce all of this and even encourage it whether academics realize it or not. Except for the world's most renowned universities, the quality of the teaching staff and its techniques is nonexistent most of the time. The administration is pretty apathetic and indifferent about the quality of its graduates and the education they're (or not) getting. They couldn't care less what happens to them after they're gone as long as they can afford their PR budget and attending conferences. Its like they allow anyone these days to open a university and start giving out degrees and starting departments and study programs. The world is filled with universities of which most are laughingstocks in the sphere of academia.

The academic world is in serious need of reconstruction and reconsideration. I'll make sure if I ever had a kid that he/she won't fall for the same mistakes I did.

I think that you are describing personal problems.

#47 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

@TacticalDesire said:

@huggybear1020 said:

A good rule of thumb, if you chose your major because it's "easy", drop out of school and go get a job. You'll be making the same money you'd be making when you graduate, and you won't have all the school debt to pay back. Now if you chose your major because it's a high-demand field and what you are learning applies directly to the line of work you want to go into, then by all means stay in school.

Choosing your major based on ease is a horrible idea (though I have no idea who does that), but choosing your major because it relates to a high-demand field is equally stupid.

BAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, it most certainly is not.

#48 Edited by pie-junior (2866 posts) -

@GazaAli said:

College education has become a bad investment because students stopped learning shit in there. The end is no longer about acquiring a thorough and deep understanding of a field, its rather the acquisition of the degree itself. Vast majority of students say to themselves and to each others "You just get that damn piece of paper with most minimum effort, you/we will figure out the rest later". Only thing is that by the time they get to "later", they realize just how much they're screwed. They find themselves intellectually and mentally worn out at the age of 23-24 thinking that they achieved something of value and that the time and resources they poured into the degree will now start to pay off. But in reality, they're just too deep in intellectual and personal stagnation and staleness after wasting a great deal of what should have been one of the most intellectually active and personally cultivating time of their lives. So briefly after graduation they become progressively aware of the scale of the mistakes they made. First of those mistakes is how they haphazardly chose their majors without any consideration or research on the job market and their own talents and shortcomings. In addition all the procrastination and plagiarism they used to boast about come to them and remind them just how ignorant and underachieving they are in the field of their choice. Another thing is how they find themselves aimless after graduation, unaware of what to do next. Employers want experience they don't have and no one was there to tell them about the value and necessity of internships and whatnot. All of this is just the tip of the iceberg, I could go on forever.

The problem is most academic institutions reinforce all of this and even encourage it whether academics realize it or not. Except for the world's most renowned universities, the quality of the teaching staff and its techniques is nonexistent most of the time. The administration is pretty apathetic and indifferent about the quality of its graduates and the education they're (or not) getting. They couldn't care less what happens to them after they're gone as long as they can afford their PR budget and attending conferences. Its like they allow anyone these days to open a university and start giving out degrees and starting departments and study programs. The world is filled with universities of which most are laughingstocks in the sphere of academia.

The academic world is in serious need of reconstruction and reconsideration. I'll make sure if I ever had a kid that he/she won't fall for the same mistakes I did.

Jesus fucking christ

#49 Posted by TacticalDesire (10713 posts) -

@coolbeans90 said:

@TacticalDesire said:

@huggybear1020 said:

A good rule of thumb, if you chose your major because it's "easy", drop out of school and go get a job. You'll be making the same money you'd be making when you graduate, and you won't have all the school debt to pay back. Now if you chose your major because it's a high-demand field and what you are learning applies directly to the line of work you want to go into, then by all means stay in school.

Choosing your major based on ease is a horrible idea (though I have no idea who does that), but choosing your major because it relates to a high-demand field is equally stupid.

BAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, it most certainly is not.

This should make the point I am trying to make a bit clearer, and it is written and laid out with far more information than I could procure, from a much more reliable source.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324139404579016662718868576

#50 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

@TacticalDesire said:

@coolbeans90 said:

@TacticalDesire said:

@huggybear1020 said:

A good rule of thumb, if you chose your major because it's "easy", drop out of school and go get a job. You'll be making the same money you'd be making when you graduate, and you won't have all the school debt to pay back. Now if you chose your major because it's a high-demand field and what you are learning applies directly to the line of work you want to go into, then by all means stay in school.

Choosing your major based on ease is a horrible idea (though I have no idea who does that), but choosing your major because it relates to a high-demand field is equally stupid.

BAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, it most certainly is not.

This should make the point I am trying to make a bit clearer, and it is written and laid out with far more information than I could procure, from a much more reliable source.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324139404579016662718868576

It seems to be critiquing undergrad specialization more than focusing on demand. And, of course, provided one isn't picking some extreme niche, the problem of not knowing where demand is going to be five years down the road essentially disappears.

tl;dr - there will definitely be a shortage of doctors, nurses in the near future, to some extent, engineers, etc, and targetting one of those fields because of this is, well, simply a practical consideration.