The missing IRS emails

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#1 Posted by whipassmt (13831 posts) -

As some of you may know, the IRS has recently claimed that it lost some 43,000 emails from former IRS official Lois Lerner due to a hard-drive crash. According to the IRS these emails are emails that were sent to people outside of the IRS, such as the Treasury Dept., the White House, and some Democratic members of Congress. Emails that Lerner sent to other IRS employees are still present. The loss of these emails is controversial because they are the subject of a Congressional investigation into the IRS targeting scandal, and because the IRS is legally obligated to maintain these emails. According to the U.S. Archivist, the IRS "Did not follow the law" because they did not notify the National Archives after they lost the emails.

But here's what I'm wondering: since the emails in question were those sent by Lerner to outside agencies and members of Congress, wouldn't those emails still be present on the computers of the other agencies. If the IRS computer crashed and wiped out their record of Lerner's emails, wouldn't the emails still be on the computers of the recipients of her emails if they're no longer on her computer. For example if she sent an email to an official at the White House, and her computer crashed, wouldn't the White House still have that email.

So really the course of action that Congress should pursue in this investigation is pretty clear: expand the subpoena beyond the IRS. Congress should subpoena the Treasury Dept., the White House, and other agencies that Lerner had sent those emails to, as well as individual members of Congress who were involved. If these other agencies claim to have also lost or deleted those emails, then it is likely that something is afoot.

Do you guys think we will ever get to the bottom of this? Will those emails ever been found? Is it time to appoint a special prosecutor? Perhaps we will have to wait for a subsequent presidential administration before the truth emerges.

#2 Posted by Master_Live (13612 posts) -

I also heard the might ask the NSA to help them recover the missing emails. Just investigate.

#3 Posted by whipassmt (13831 posts) -

I also heard the might ask the NSA to help them recover the missing emails. Just investigate.

I'm not sure if you're joking or being serious.

#4 Edited by Master_Live (13612 posts) -
#5 Posted by whipassmt (13831 posts) -

@whipassmt said:

@Master_Live said:

I also heard the might ask the NSA to help them recover the missing emails. Just investigate.

I'm not sure if you're joking or being serious.

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/209566-conservatives-turn-to-nsa-for-help-getting-wh-records

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/209390-stockman-asks-nsa-for-help-with-lost-irs-emails

Oh they really are doing so. Makes sense, NSA probably could do that.

Issa should also look into having Felicity Smoak get involved.

#6 Posted by BranKetra (47468 posts) -

Last night on C-Span, tens of thousands of emails were said to have been recovered and the New York Times reported the same thing on the 23rd of this month.

However, the I.R.S. says it has recovered roughly 24,000 of the missing emails from the accounts of people on the other end of Ms. Lerner’s correspondence, in addition to about 43,000 retrieved directly from Ms. Lerner’s account for the time periods not affected by her computer crash. (The agency says that it has provided 770,000 documents to congressional investigators.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/us/questions-and-answers-on-lois-lerners-lost-emails-in-irs-scandal.html?_r=0

That information is available throughout the world wide web and on television channels.

#7 Edited by whipassmt (13831 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

Last night on C-Span, tens of thousands of emails were said to have been recovered and the New York Times reported the same thing on the 23rd of this month.

However, the I.R.S. says it has recovered roughly 24,000 of the missing emails from the accounts of people on the other end of Ms. Lerner’s correspondence, in addition to about 43,000 retrieved directly from Ms. Lerner’s account for the time periods not affected by her computer crash. (The agency says that it has provided 770,000 documents to congressional investigators.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/us/questions-and-answers-on-lois-lerners-lost-emails-in-irs-scandal.html?_r=0

That information is available throughout the world wide web and on television channels.

Makes sense. Seems logical enough that if an email is lost on the sender's side, it would still be up on the recipient's side. I'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking of looking at the other computers.

I don't usually look up news online. And I haven't watched tv news today, or much yesterday (I was at the casino and then playing Halo when I got home).

#8 Edited by airshocker (28203 posts) -

Not unless there are copies of the e-mails somewhere, we're never going to actually know what went down with regards to Lois Lerner.

The fact remains that anybody can reasonably infer that the IRS had something to hide because multiple hard drives failed. Six(or was it seven?) HDDs that were directly related to what Congress was investigating magically failed? Extremely unlikely.

I don't really care what your political flavor is, but the IRS needs to have its powers suspended and there needs to be a major investigation launched in the agency. It's quite obviously corrupt.

Also, this is an awesome video.

#9 Posted by BranKetra (47468 posts) -
#10 Posted by airshocker (28203 posts) -

Last night on C-Span, tens of thousands of emails were said to have been recovered and the New York Times reported the same thing on the 23rd of this month.

However, the I.R.S. says it has recovered roughly 24,000 of the missing emails from the accounts of people on the other end of Ms. Lerner’s correspondence, in addition to about 43,000 retrieved directly from Ms. Lerner’s account for the time periods not affected by her computer crash. (The agency says that it has provided 770,000 documents to congressional investigators.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/us/questions-and-answers-on-lois-lerners-lost-emails-in-irs-scandal.html?_r=0

That information is available throughout the world wide web and on television channels.

I believe the ones that Congress are after are the ones supposedly contained on the "crashed" hard drives.

#11 Posted by playmynutz (5921 posts) -

Bout time OT has a discussion on the missing email. Check the Cloud

#12 Edited by whipassmt (13831 posts) -

Not unless there are copies of the e-mails somewhere, we're never going to actually know what went down with regards to Lois Lerner.

The fact remains that anybody can reasonably infer that the IRS had something to hide because multiple hard drives failed. Six(or was it seven?) HDDs that were directly related to what Congress was investigating magically failed.

I don't really care what your political flavor is, but the IRS needs to have its powers suspended and there needs to be a major investigation launched in the agency. It's quite obviously corrupt.

Also, this is an awesome video.

Yeah, it does seem very unlikely that those particular emails were the ones that went missing. I didn't know that it was six or seven hard drives that failed (does the IRS store their emails on a hard-drive? I always think of emails being stored in the email service, not the hard-drive, but that's probably different for government agencies since they probably run their own email service, instead of using yahoo or AOL). I heard on tv that an IRS official said to Congress that many IRS computers still run Windows XP which Microsoft no longer updates, and that updating to newer technology would cost about $20 million, to which Darrell Issa responded by pointing out that the IRS has a $1.8 billion dollar technology budget.

I think the IRS does need to be investigated, and it should also be made less powerful. I remember hearing on Fox about some small business owners that were audited by the IRS, the IRS found no wrongdoing on the part of the businesses, but the audit process cost the businesses tens of thousands of dollars each. That is blatantly unfair for those people. The IRS should either have to meet a higher burden of proof to audit people and businesses, or the IRS should have to reimburse them once if no wrongdoing is discovered.

#13 Posted by whipassmt (13831 posts) -

Not unless there are copies of the e-mails somewhere, we're never going to actually know what went down with regards to Lois Lerner.

The fact remains that anybody can reasonably infer that the IRS had something to hide because multiple hard drives failed. Six(or was it seven?) HDDs that were directly related to what Congress was investigating magically failed.

I don't really care what your political flavor is, but the IRS needs to have its powers suspended and there needs to be a major investigation launched in the agency. It's quite obviously corrupt.

Also, this is an awesome video.

Yeah, it does seem very unlikely that those particular emails were the ones that went missing. I didn't know that it was six or seven hard drives that failed (does the IRS store their emails on a hard-drive? I always think of emails being stored in the email service, not the hard-drive, but that's probably different for government agencies since they probably run their own email service, instead of using yahoo or AOL). I heard on tv that an IRS official said to Congress that many IRS computers still run Windows XP which Microsoft no longer updates, and that updating to newer technology would cost about $20 million, to which Darrell Issa responded by pointing out that the IRS has a $1.8 billion dollar technology budget.

I think the IRS does need to be investigated, and it should also be made less powerful. I remember hearing on Fox about some small business owners that were audited by the IRS, the IRS found no wrongdoing on the part of the businesses, but the audit process cost the businesses tens of thousands of dollars each. That is blatantly unfair for those people. The IRS should either have to meet a higher burden of proof to audit people and businesses, or the IRS should have to reimburse them once if no wrongdoing is discovered.

#14 Posted by airshocker (28203 posts) -

@airshocker said:

Not unless there are copies of the e-mails somewhere, we're never going to actually know what went down with regards to Lois Lerner.

The fact remains that anybody can reasonably infer that the IRS had something to hide because multiple hard drives failed. Six(or was it seven?) HDDs that were directly related to what Congress was investigating magically failed.

I don't really care what your political flavor is, but the IRS needs to have its powers suspended and there needs to be a major investigation launched in the agency. It's quite obviously corrupt.

Also, this is an awesome video.

Yeah, it does seem very unlikely that those particular emails were the ones that went missing. I didn't know that it was six or seven hard drives that failed (does the IRS store their emails on a hard-drive? I always think of emails being stored in the email service, not the hard-drive, but that's probably different for government agencies since they probably run their own email service, instead of using yahoo or AOL). I heard on tv that an IRS official said to Congress that many IRS computers still run Windows XP which Microsoft no longer updates, and that updating to newer technology would cost about $20 million, to which Darrell Issa responded by pointing out that the IRS has a $1.8 billion dollar technology budget.

I think the IRS does need to be investigated, and it should also be made less powerful. I remember hearing on Fox about some small business owners that were audited by the IRS, the IRS found no wrongdoing on the part of the businesses, but the audit process cost the businesses tens of thousands of dollars each. That is blatantly unfair for those people. The IRS should either have to meet a higher burden of proof to audit people and businesses, or the IRS should have to reimburse them once if no wrongdoing is discovered.

That's probably a good idea but it's going to take a lot to force changes at the IRS with Obama still in office. Maybe if Republicans controlled all three branches we could make something happen. I don't really see any other way to fix the IRS considering the Democrats are making this out to be a political game when it's really not.

#15 Edited by lamprey263 (22419 posts) -

@airshocker said:

That's probably a good idea but it's going to take a lot to force changes at the IRS with Obama still in office. Maybe if Republicans controlled all three branches we could make something happen. I don't really see any other way to fix the IRS considering the Democrats are making this out to be a political game when it's really not.

If Republicans controlled all three branches the country is fucked.

Wanting change like this, why? because some phony Republican scandal?

The entire root of this scandal is that they're trying to make it look like the Obama administration and IRS were seeking to suppress voters by attacking political groups. Rather laughable, because the Republicans have been some of the most overt offenders with their voter suppression efforts.

#16 Posted by BranKetra (47468 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

Last night on C-Span, tens of thousands of emails were said to have been recovered and the New York Times reported the same thing on the 23rd of this month.

However, the I.R.S. says it has recovered roughly 24,000 of the missing emails from the accounts of people on the other end of Ms. Lerner’s correspondence, in addition to about 43,000 retrieved directly from Ms. Lerner’s account for the time periods not affected by her computer crash. (The agency says that it has provided 770,000 documents to congressional investigators.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/us/questions-and-answers-on-lois-lerners-lost-emails-in-irs-scandal.html?_r=0

That information is available throughout the world wide web and on television channels.

I believe the ones that Congress are after are the ones supposedly contained on the "crashed" hard drives.

You are saying the emails the IRS reported are not any of those on the reported to be crashed hard drives.

We will learn how relevant that report is soon enough.

#17 Edited by airshocker (28203 posts) -

@airshocker said:

That's probably a good idea but it's going to take a lot to force changes at the IRS with Obama still in office. Maybe if Republicans controlled all three branches we could make something happen. I don't really see any other way to fix the IRS considering the Democrats are making this out to be a political game when it's really not.

If Republicans controlled all three branches the country is fucked.

Wanting change like this, why? because some phony Republican scandal?

The entire root of this scandal is that they're trying to make it look like the Obama administration and IRS were seeking to suppress voters by attacking political groups. Rather laughable, because the Republicans have been some of the most overt offenders with their voter suppression efforts.

The democrats have been doing a pretty good job with that.

Phony scandal? The IRS is purposefully withholding information. Whether that be by sabotage, or some other means, the results are the same.

Don't strawman, this has nothing to do with voter suppression or any such nonsense. This is about a corrupt agency that apparently doesn't think it needs to follow the rules.

#18 Posted by airshocker (28203 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@BranKetra said:

Last night on C-Span, tens of thousands of emails were said to have been recovered and the New York Times reported the same thing on the 23rd of this month.

However, the I.R.S. says it has recovered roughly 24,000 of the missing emails from the accounts of people on the other end of Ms. Lerner’s correspondence, in addition to about 43,000 retrieved directly from Ms. Lerner’s account for the time periods not affected by her computer crash. (The agency says that it has provided 770,000 documents to congressional investigators.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/us/questions-and-answers-on-lois-lerners-lost-emails-in-irs-scandal.html?_r=0

That information is available throughout the world wide web and on television channels.

I believe the ones that Congress are after are the ones supposedly contained on the "crashed" hard drives.

You are saying the emails the IRS reported are not any of those on the reported to be crashed hard drives.

We will learn how relevant that report is soon enough.

I'm saying it's extremely convenient to have multiple hard drives fail when you're being investigated by Congress.

#19 Edited by BranKetra (47468 posts) -

@airshocker said:
@BranKetra said:

@airshocker said:

@BranKetra said:

Last night on C-Span, tens of thousands of emails were said to have been recovered and the New York Times reported the same thing on the 23rd of this month.

However, the I.R.S. says it has recovered roughly 24,000 of the missing emails from the accounts of people on the other end of Ms. Lerner’s correspondence, in addition to about 43,000 retrieved directly from Ms. Lerner’s account for the time periods not affected by her computer crash. (The agency says that it has provided 770,000 documents to congressional investigators.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/us/questions-and-answers-on-lois-lerners-lost-emails-in-irs-scandal.html?_r=0

That information is available throughout the world wide web and on television channels.

I believe the ones that Congress are after are the ones supposedly contained on the "crashed" hard drives.

You are saying the emails the IRS reported are not any of those on the reported to be crashed hard drives.

We will learn how relevant that report is soon enough.

I'm saying it's extremely convenient to have multiple hard drives fail when you're being investigated by Congress.

I understand, though how convenient this is depends on if they actually did anything illegal and are attempting to hide the evidence and of course, perspective.

#20 Edited by lamprey263 (22419 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@lamprey263 said:

@airshocker said:

That's probably a good idea but it's going to take a lot to force changes at the IRS with Obama still in office. Maybe if Republicans controlled all three branches we could make something happen. I don't really see any other way to fix the IRS considering the Democrats are making this out to be a political game when it's really not.

If Republicans controlled all three branches the country is fucked.

Wanting change like this, why? because some phony Republican scandal?

The entire root of this scandal is that they're trying to make it look like the Obama administration and IRS were seeking to suppress voters by attacking political groups. Rather laughable, because the Republicans have been some of the most overt offenders with their voter suppression efforts.

The democrats have been doing a pretty good job with that.

Phony scandal? The IRS is purposefully withholding information. Whether that be by sabotage, or some other means, the results are the same.

Don't strawman, this has nothing to do with voter suppression or any such nonsense. This is about a corrupt agency that apparently doesn't think it needs to follow the rules.

No this all goes back to the original claim by Republicans that political groups were being single out for scrutiny for 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) status. This is just Republicans making a mountain out of molehill like they've been doing for years. Just like Benghazi, the Presidents birth certificate, Operation Fast & Furious, ACORN. It's all a ruse to score political points, nothing more. Though, going after the IRS does have a certain flair with conservatives. At it's roots this is still the Republican scandal that the IRS targeted conservative groups exclusively for scrutiny to their non-profit status; that's already been debunked. They continue to investigate though because they're making up scandals, scandals hurt their political opponents (even those without merit) by merely being deemed scandals.

#21 Edited by airshocker (28203 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@lamprey263 said:

@airshocker said:

That's probably a good idea but it's going to take a lot to force changes at the IRS with Obama still in office. Maybe if Republicans controlled all three branches we could make something happen. I don't really see any other way to fix the IRS considering the Democrats are making this out to be a political game when it's really not.

If Republicans controlled all three branches the country is fucked.

Wanting change like this, why? because some phony Republican scandal?

The entire root of this scandal is that they're trying to make it look like the Obama administration and IRS were seeking to suppress voters by attacking political groups. Rather laughable, because the Republicans have been some of the most overt offenders with their voter suppression efforts.

The democrats have been doing a pretty good job with that.

Phony scandal? The IRS is purposefully withholding information. Whether that be by sabotage, or some other means, the results are the same.

Don't strawman, this has nothing to do with voter suppression or any such nonsense. This is about a corrupt agency that apparently doesn't think it needs to follow the rules.

No this all goes back to the original claim by Republicans that political groups were being single out for scrutiny for 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) status. This is just Republicans making a mountain out of molehill like they've been doing for years. Just like Benghazi, the Presidents birth certificate, Operation Fast & Furious, ACORN. It's all a ruse to score political points, nothing more. Though, going after the IRS does have a certain flair with conservatives.

First off, it's not a claim, it's already been proven.

Secondly, the whole point of having a government run things is that they run them impartially. Do you disagree? If evidence is brought forth that certain agencies target certain groups because of their politics, how the fuck are we supposed to trust that government? What is stopping the IRS from targeting individuals based on their politics? Laws? They've already broken them.

The only person playing politics here is yourself.

#22 Edited by lamprey263 (22419 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@lamprey263 said:

@airshocker said:

@lamprey263 said:

@airshocker said:

That's probably a good idea but it's going to take a lot to force changes at the IRS with Obama still in office. Maybe if Republicans controlled all three branches we could make something happen. I don't really see any other way to fix the IRS considering the Democrats are making this out to be a political game when it's really not.

If Republicans controlled all three branches the country is fucked.

Wanting change like this, why? because some phony Republican scandal?

The entire root of this scandal is that they're trying to make it look like the Obama administration and IRS were seeking to suppress voters by attacking political groups. Rather laughable, because the Republicans have been some of the most overt offenders with their voter suppression efforts.

The democrats have been doing a pretty good job with that.

Phony scandal? The IRS is purposefully withholding information. Whether that be by sabotage, or some other means, the results are the same.

Don't strawman, this has nothing to do with voter suppression or any such nonsense. This is about a corrupt agency that apparently doesn't think it needs to follow the rules.

No this all goes back to the original claim by Republicans that political groups were being single out for scrutiny for 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) status. This is just Republicans making a mountain out of molehill like they've been doing for years. Just like Benghazi, the Presidents birth certificate, Operation Fast & Furious, ACORN. It's all a ruse to score political points, nothing more. Though, going after the IRS does have a certain flair with conservatives.

First off, it's not a claim, it's already been proven.

Secondly, the whole point of having a government run things is that they run them impartially. Do you disagree? If evidence is brought forth that certain agencies target certain groups because of their politics, how the fuck are we supposed to trust that government? What is stopping the IRS from targeting individuals based on their politics? Laws? They've already broken them.

The only person playing politics here is yourself.

No, the claim was debunked. It's already been shown that liberal leaning groups were in fact targeted more than conservative groups. What was the point of contention was that the IRS was using key words to single out groups as political groups, like having "Tea Party" in its name and such, they had a whole bunch of keywords to target political groups of any stripe. It wasn't exclusive to conservative groups. That's a farce made up by Republicans just like they make up most their phony baloney bullshit scandals.

#23 Posted by airshocker (28203 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@lamprey263 said:

@airshocker said:

@lamprey263 said:

@airshocker said:

That's probably a good idea but it's going to take a lot to force changes at the IRS with Obama still in office. Maybe if Republicans controlled all three branches we could make something happen. I don't really see any other way to fix the IRS considering the Democrats are making this out to be a political game when it's really not.

If Republicans controlled all three branches the country is fucked.

Wanting change like this, why? because some phony Republican scandal?

The entire root of this scandal is that they're trying to make it look like the Obama administration and IRS were seeking to suppress voters by attacking political groups. Rather laughable, because the Republicans have been some of the most overt offenders with their voter suppression efforts.

The democrats have been doing a pretty good job with that.

Phony scandal? The IRS is purposefully withholding information. Whether that be by sabotage, or some other means, the results are the same.

Don't strawman, this has nothing to do with voter suppression or any such nonsense. This is about a corrupt agency that apparently doesn't think it needs to follow the rules.

No this all goes back to the original claim by Republicans that political groups were being single out for scrutiny for 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) status. This is just Republicans making a mountain out of molehill like they've been doing for years. Just like Benghazi, the Presidents birth certificate, Operation Fast & Furious, ACORN. It's all a ruse to score political points, nothing more. Though, going after the IRS does have a certain flair with conservatives.

First off, it's not a claim, it's already been proven.

Secondly, the whole point of having a government run things is that they run them impartially. Do you disagree? If evidence is brought forth that certain agencies target certain groups because of their politics, how the fuck are we supposed to trust that government? What is stopping the IRS from targeting individuals based on their politics? Laws? They've already broken them.

The only person playing politics here is yourself.

No, the claim was debunked. It's already been shown that liberal leaning groups were in fact targeted more than conservative groups. What was the point of contention was that the IRS was using key words to single out groups as political groups, like having "Tea Party" in its name and such, they had a whole bunch of keywords to target political groups of any stripe. It wasn't exclusive to conservative groups. That's a farce made up by Republicans just like they make up most their phony baloney bullshit scandals.

What the fuck does it matter WHO was targeted? I never qualified my statements with a who. The fact remains that TARGETING happened. That is UNACCEPTABLE. I'm not a partisan hack. For this fucking country to work people need to be treated equally. That means agencies like the IRS aren't allowed to target ANY group based on their politics.

It's pretty pathetic that you seem to be okay with this.

#24 Posted by outworld222 (2311 posts) -

TC brain has been infiltrated by right wing propaganda + don't you realize this is a fabricated issue to shift away from the failures of the R party?

#26 Edited by outworld222 (2311 posts) -
#28 Edited by ferrari2001 (16675 posts) -

@airshocker said:

That's probably a good idea but it's going to take a lot to force changes at the IRS with Obama still in office. Maybe if Republicans controlled all three branches we could make something happen. I don't really see any other way to fix the IRS considering the Democrats are making this out to be a political game when it's really not.

If Republicans controlled all three branches the country is fucked.

lol, people say this all the time, and have pretty much always said this, but when a specific party does control all branches nothing apocalyptic ever happens like both sides claim will happen. The country usually continues operating the same way that it has always operated with a few changes at the federal level. Whether democrats or republicans are in charge, the companies continue to run, people will go to work, go home, go to bed. They will still pay taxes and people who need it will still receive benefits from the government. All of us will continue to go about our rather insignificant lives talking bullshit on gamespot with our lives being changed very little if at all.

#29 Edited by outworld222 (2311 posts) -

@airshocker

That's just your opinion. You're not pointing out anything in terms of value or fact. Deal with it.

#30 Posted by Aljosa23 (24281 posts) -

lol people are still talking about this? Biggest faux scandal of recent years, but it's no surprise since this is the last gasps of a dying political party.

#31 Edited by airshocker (28203 posts) -

That's just your opinion. You're not pointing out anything in terms of value or fact. Deal with it.

No, actually I have pointed out many facts in this thread. One being that this isn't propaganda. This is a real issue.

So yes, when someone tries to spin this as if it doesn't matter, as if Republicans don't have a leg to stand on, they are indeed idiots.

#32 Posted by airshocker (28203 posts) -
@Aljosa23 said:

lol people are still talking about this? Biggest faux scandal of recent years, but it's no surprise since this is the last gasps of a dying political party.

You really think it's okay for the agency that's responsible for taxation to be able to pick and choose which political groups get breaks and which don't because of their politics?

Expected better from you.

#33 Edited by outworld222 (2311 posts) -

@airshocker said:
@Aljosa23 said:

lol people are still talking about this? Biggest faux scandal of recent years, but it's no surprise since this is the last gasps of a dying political party.

You really think it's okay for the agency that's responsible for taxation to be able to pick and choose which political groups get breaks and which don't because of their politics?

Expected better from you.

No, but I was referring to the lost email witch hunt that's going on BECAUSE a hard drive apparently crashed. I never implied what you're saying.

#34 Edited by Aljosa23 (24281 posts) -

@airshocker said:
@Aljosa23 said:

lol people are still talking about this? Biggest faux scandal of recent years, but it's no surprise since this is the last gasps of a dying political party.

You really think it's okay for the agency that's responsible for taxation to be able to pick and choose which political groups get breaks and which don't because of their politics?

Expected better from you.

I don't care since I don't think political groups should get tax breaks in the first place regardless of their politics.

#35 Posted by xscrapzx (6365 posts) -

@Aljosa23:

I don't believe that is the point here. It has a lot more to do then just picking and choosing taxation on politics, because if they dictating based on politics, do you not think they are corrupt in other areas as well. Very alarming if you ask me and as a citizen you should be very concerned.

#36 Posted by dave123321 (33330 posts) -

Hope they get better computers next time. Bad tech is a shame

#37 Posted by airshocker (28203 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@airshocker said:
@Aljosa23 said:

lol people are still talking about this? Biggest faux scandal of recent years, but it's no surprise since this is the last gasps of a dying political party.

You really think it's okay for the agency that's responsible for taxation to be able to pick and choose which political groups get breaks and which don't because of their politics?

Expected better from you.

I don't care since I don't think political groups should get tax breaks in the first place regardless of their politics.

You obviously do care since you don't think they should get tax breaks.

#38 Posted by airshocker (28203 posts) -

@airshocker said:
@Aljosa23 said:

lol people are still talking about this? Biggest faux scandal of recent years, but it's no surprise since this is the last gasps of a dying political party.

You really think it's okay for the agency that's responsible for taxation to be able to pick and choose which political groups get breaks and which don't because of their politics?

Expected better from you.

No, but I was referring to the lost email witch hunt that's going on BECAUSE a hard drive apparently crashed. I never implied what you're saying.

How about you actually respond to the post that was directed at you. Aljosa can speak for himself.

#39 Posted by Master_Live (13612 posts) -

Another agency tells Congress: File not found

From the article:

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the IRS share a problem: officials say they cannot provide the emails a congressional committee has requested because an employee’s hard drive crashed.

EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy confirmed to the House Oversight Committee Wednesday that her staff is unable to provide lawmakers all of the documents they have requested on the proposed Pebble Mine in Alaska, because of a 2010 computer crash.

“We’re having trouble getting the data off of it and we’re trying other sources to actually supplement that,” McCarthy said. “We’re challenged in figuring out where those small failures might have occurred and what caused them occur, but we’ve produced a lot of information.”

The committee suspects that Phillip North, who worked for the EPA in Alaska, decided with his colleagues to veto the proposed Pebble Mine near Bristol Bay in 2009, before the agency even began researching its potential impacts on the environment.

The NARA enforces the Federal Records Act, which governs federal agencies’ responsibilities to maintain records.

Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.) said EPA probably violated the Federal Records Act by not backing up North’s emails.

The Federal Records Act has also taken center stage in the IRS controversy. David Ferreiro, head of the NARA, told lawmakers Tuesday that the IRS did not follow the Federal Records Act in its policies for preserving emails.

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And that is that.

#40 Posted by dave123321 (33330 posts) -

I thought that political groups from across the aisles were both targeted

#41 Posted by Aljosa23 (24281 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@airshocker said:
@Aljosa23 said:

lol people are still talking about this? Biggest faux scandal of recent years, but it's no surprise since this is the last gasps of a dying political party.

You really think it's okay for the agency that's responsible for taxation to be able to pick and choose which political groups get breaks and which don't because of their politics?

Expected better from you.

I don't care since I don't think political groups should get tax breaks in the first place regardless of their politics.

You obviously do care since you don't think they should get tax breaks.

Well yeah, but I don't care about particular groups being "targeted". If anything, I think it's perfectly fine for extra scrutiny being placed on groups wanting to be considered non-profit. We need to have less money in politics, not more.

#42 Edited by airshocker (28203 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

Well yeah, but I don't care about particular groups being "targeted". If anything, I think it's perfectly fine for extra scrutiny being placed on groups wanting to be considered non-profit. We need to have less money in politics, not more.

But the fact of the matter is that only certain groups got extra scrutiny, not all of them. You don't see a problem with that?

#43 Posted by dave123321 (33330 posts) -

There does seem to be a tornado of incompetence with the irs

#44 Posted by Aljosa23 (24281 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

Well yeah, but I don't care about particular groups being "targeted". If anything, I think it's perfectly fine for extra scrutiny being placed on groups wanting to be considered non-profit. We need to have less money in politics, not more.

But the fact of the matter is that only certain groups got extra scrutiny, not all of them. You don't see a problem with that?

I've read that ALL groups have been given "targeted", regardless of their political affiliation. Unless you have evidence supporting otherwise I'm still unconvinced this is anything more than just another GOP shenanigan.

#45 Edited by dave123321 (33330 posts) -

Even if you agree with the targeting, doesn't that worry you because they not supposed to target. Like oh yeah, be corrupt because this time I agree. But what if you no longer agree

#46 Edited by lamprey263 (22419 posts) -

@airshocker said:

What the fuck does it matter WHO was targeted? I never qualified my statements with a who. The fact remains that TARGETING happened. That is UNACCEPTABLE. I'm not a partisan hack. For this fucking country to work people need to be treated equally. That means agencies like the IRS aren't allowed to target ANY group based on their politics.

It's pretty pathetic that you seem to be okay with this.

Actually there is nothing wrong with scrutinizing special tax consideration for non-profits charities and that was never a point of contention in this whole issue, the issue was that only specific political groups were being targeted. And yes, if that were the case it would be well deserving of condemnation, but that's not the case. All political groups were placed under scrutiny when applying for 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) status, not specific political groups, it was impartial. I don't think it's at all inconvenient for someone applying for tax exempt status for their organization to prove they comply with the rules regarding that special tax status, or that they're not using charity status for the excessive personal compensation, or that they're not scams.

#47 Edited by airshocker (28203 posts) -

@lamprey263 said:

@airshocker said:

What the fuck does it matter WHO was targeted? I never qualified my statements with a who. The fact remains that TARGETING happened. That is UNACCEPTABLE. I'm not a partisan hack. For this fucking country to work people need to be treated equally. That means agencies like the IRS aren't allowed to target ANY group based on their politics.

It's pretty pathetic that you seem to be okay with this.

Actually there is nothing wrong with scrutinizing special tax consideration for non-profits charities and that was never a point of contention in this whole issue, the issue was that only specific political groups were being targeted. And yes, if that were the case it would be well deserving of condemnation, but that's not the case. All political groups were placed under scrutiny when applying for 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) status, not specific political groups, it was impartial. I don't think it's at all inconvenient for someone applying for tax exempt status for their organization to prove they comply with the rules regarding that special tax status, or that they're not using charity status for the excessive personal compensation, or that they're not scams.

No, that is the case as has been shown. The fact that the IRS has admitted wrong doing means you don't have a leg to stand on. The IRS was specifically scrutinizing certain groups and ignoring others. That isn't in contention, no matter how much you want it to be.

#48 Posted by airshocker (28203 posts) -
@Aljosa23 said:

@airshocker said:

@Aljosa23 said:

Well yeah, but I don't care about particular groups being "targeted". If anything, I think it's perfectly fine for extra scrutiny being placed on groups wanting to be considered non-profit. We need to have less money in politics, not more.

But the fact of the matter is that only certain groups got extra scrutiny, not all of them. You don't see a problem with that?

I've read that ALL groups have been given "targeted", regardless of their political affiliation. Unless you have evidence supporting otherwise I'm still unconvinced this is anything more than just another GOP shenanigan.

I don't know where you've read that but the IRS already admitted wrong doing when we were going through this Lois Lerner testimony.

#49 Posted by dave123321 (33330 posts) -

Can someone link to the admittance of the wrongs doing

#50 Edited by BranKetra (47468 posts) -

I hope we can continue this discussion without denigration. If things become too heated, I recommend some self-controlled time away from the internet. Fifteen minutes of tai chi or basic push-ups to exhaust that anger energy can be very helpful in the overall development of self-discipline.

Just a tip

I am not singling anyone out.