The Age of Great Leaders

#1 Posted by BossPerson (9450 posts) -

Are we as a society finished with having men like FDR, Churchill, Lincoln, Jefferson being our political leaders?

Is the greatness of those men just an illusion? Or is the greatness of a leader only recognized decades later, meaning that our current political leaders will later be regarded as "great"?

#2 Edited by TruthTellers (3397 posts) -

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

#3 Edited by BossPerson (9450 posts) -

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

i think Putin will be regarded 30 years from now as a plunderer

The thing about the leaders I listed, is that its a much harder argument to claim that they acted primarily in the interests of them and their peeps.

Although, admittedly, I don't know enough about the Russian standard of living to make a claim against him.

#4 Posted by TruthTellers (3397 posts) -

Sure, the guy who brought Russia back from the brink of decay and turned it into a superpower after it was torn apart 10 years earlier will be known as a plunderer. Stop watching so much American propaganda.

#5 Edited by BossPerson (9450 posts) -

why is it so hard to find a chart of russia's standard of living of the past 20 years

edit: although their economy has undoubtedly improved, we'll see how Putin's repression of his people is regarded 20 years after his death

#6 Edited by TruthTellers (3397 posts) -

According to Putin's wikipedia page:

"During Putin's first premiership and presidency (1999–2008), real incomes increased by a factor of 2.5, real wages more than tripled; unemployment and poverty more than halved, and the Russians' self-assessed life satisfaction rose significantly.[9] Putin's first presidency was marked by high economic growth: the Russian economy grew for eight straight years, seeing GDP increase by 72% in PPP (sixfold in nominal).[9][10][11][12][13] As Russia's president, Putin and the Federal Assembly passed into law a flat income tax of 13%, a reduced profits tax, and new land and legal codes.[14][15] As Prime Minister, Putin oversaw large scale military and police reform. His energy policy has affirmed Russia's position as an energy superpower.[16]"

Yeah, I'd say that all this is much more important to the people of Russia than gay rights.

#7 Posted by Serraph105 (27840 posts) -

History has a way of rounding out the rough edges of people. We tend to focus on the actions of leaders that changed things for the better. I'm not saying that we look past major blunders (though we do some that also), but we tend to forget the a bunch of things that didn't pan out to much of anything.

#8 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1748 posts) -

We don't need good leaders right now, the world is at peace.

#9 Posted by TruthTellers (3397 posts) -

We don't need good leaders right now, the world is at peace.

Thanks to the Nobel Peace Prize winning President Obama.

#10 Edited by R3FURBISHED (10403 posts) -

Thing is great doesn't mean good. Bad and evil men can still be great leaders - Genghis Khan was a terrible man but did many great things as leader of a barbarian band.

He was Khan of the Mongolian Empire from 1206 to 1227. In that time he conquered most of China and all the land through the Caspian Sea. He was ruthless, vengeful, cruel, and bloodthirsty. He and his army destroyed countless numbers of cities, solders, civilians and children. People were killed by having molten metal and silver poured into their eyes and ears. In one massacre alone, 700,000 people were killed. At another place, the poor were decapitated and the rich were tortured to find out where their treasure was. Women were sometimes raped in front of their families. Hundreds of thousands had their lives ruined. It is said that if his army of men had no water they would cut a horse’s vein and drink its blood. He would use people as human shields. Hundreds of thousands became slaves. He would order you to be killed immediately if you were an enemy, if you betrayed him or if you were disloyal to him. Genghis and his army killed 20 to 60 million people. He killed three-fourths of the population of the Iranian Plateau, which was 10 to 15 million. He also killed his brother at age 13 just because his brother had stolen a fish from him. Genghis Khan once said “The greatest happiness is to scatter your enemy to drive him before you, to see his cities reduced to ashes, to see those who love him shrouded in tears, and to gather into your bosom his wives and daughters.” Genghis Khan died of natural causes in 1227.

Greatness is perspective. What was great for the Mongol horde was terror for the rest of Asia.

#12 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3804 posts) -

I think today people nit pick every little flaw of a person.

Look at obama; he sneezes and Fox News calls him a nazi. Look at how he's universalized health care and minimized the damage of the great recession, yet people hate him. Had he been president in the 30's, I bet he would be remembered as a great president.

Had Lincoln been alive today under similar circumstances, fox news would be calling him a n***** lover.

#13 Posted by Netret0120 (2047 posts) -

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

#14 Edited by MakeMeaSammitch (3804 posts) -

@TruthTellers said:

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

If you think Putin is a good leader, then you are beyond stupid.

#15 Posted by TruthTellers (3397 posts) -

@Netret0120 said:

@TruthTellers said:

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

If you think Putin is a good leader, then you are beyond stupid.

Tell me, how does Putin's superior leadership qualities influence my intelligence? If anything is stupid, it's you failing to make a counterpoint on my argument that Putin is a great leader and instead you resort to 5th grade level insults.

Putin is a great 21st Century leader as domestically he took a nation that was nearly irrelevant and quite literally turned it around and in the process made people's lives better by embracing the principle of a free economy. Internationally, he's made the US look like a joke on the world stage because of the globetrotting jester in White House.

#16 Posted by Riverwolf007 (23586 posts) -

you can't be a great leader today.

great leaders step on toes to get shit done.

try that shit today and you will find yourself out of a job.

now we are all about placating every demographic and blowing smoke up each others asses in order to survive.

#17 Posted by thegerg (14915 posts) -

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

I'm curious, what makes you so sure about the inability of the west to produce great leaders? There are plnty of great leaders still coming out of the west.

#18 Edited by Serraph105 (27840 posts) -
@MakeMeaSammitch said:

@Netret0120 said:

@TruthTellers said:

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

If you think Putin is a good leader, then you are beyond stupid.

Tell me, how does Putin's superior leadership qualities influence my intelligence? If anything is stupid, it's you failing to make a counterpoint on my argument that Putin is a great leader and instead you resort to 5th grade level insults.

Putin is a great 21st Century leader as domestically he took a nation that was nearly irrelevant and quite literally turned it around and in the process made people's lives better by embracing the principle of a free economy. Internationally, he's made the US look like a joke on the world stage because of the globetrotting jester in White House.

You know it's interesting, Putin has a lot of power due to the nature of his job. Obama on the other hand has a job where the checks and balances can either make him appear powerful or fairly limited. If Obama wants to get big things done he has to go to Congress and seek their approval. Arguably if the members of Congress wanted to have Obama appear to be a powerful leader they could enable that by working with him rather than constantly going against him.

I'm not arguing that their current stance is necessarily a bad thing. That being said when you see politicians from the US Congress arguing how weak Obama looks to the rest of the world we should keep in mind that they are a huge proponent of the president's current situation.

#19 Posted by playmynutz (5982 posts) -

The most feared is the leader.

#20 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7750 posts) -

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

The standard of living in Russia is piss poor and all Putin has done is support cronyism. He's turned the nation into an extreme oligarchy where freedom of speech is quickly dwindling when compared to the west. His actions in Crimea are already shaking up the Russian economy for the worse. Russia needs to understand that they're part of a global economy.

#21 Edited by TruthTellers (3397 posts) -

@TruthTellers said:

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

The standard of living in Russia is piss poor and all Putin has done is support cronyism. He's turned the nation into an extreme oligarchy where freedom of speech is quickly dwindling when compared to the west. His actions in Crimea are already shaking up the Russian economy for the worse. Russia needs to understand that they're part of a global economy.

Could say the same thing about Obama in America.

Russia had every right to intervene in Crimea to secure it's assets before things got out of control there, it'd be the same thing if the US sent troops to the area of Cuba immediately around Guantanamo Bay if protests and civil chaos inflamed Cuba and then annexed that state.

#22 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7750 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan said:

@TruthTellers said:

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

The standard of living in Russia is piss poor and all Putin has done is support cronyism. He's turned the nation into an extreme oligarchy where freedom of speech is quickly dwindling when compared to the west. His actions in Crimea are already shaking up the Russian economy for the worse. Russia needs to understand that they're part of a global economy.

Could say the same thing about Obama in America.

Russia had every right to intervene in Crimea to secure it's assets before things got out of control there, it'd be the same thing if the US sent troops to the area of Cuba immediately around Guantanamo Bay if protests and civil chaos inflamed Cuba and then annexed that state.

I wasn't talking about Obama. How about we talk about Putin on his own merits. Or do you have Obama tourettes every time we actually examine Putin's shitty reign over that hell hole called Russia?

#23 Edited by RadecSupreme (4646 posts) -

@TruthTellers said:
@MakeMeaSammitch said:

@Netret0120 said:

@TruthTellers said:

No, great leaders can still be found in society, just not in the Western world. Putin has rose above all in the past few years to be known as a great leader and history will show as such. There will still be great political leaders in the coming decades, but none will speak English as their primary language.

If you think Putin is a good leader, then you are beyond stupid.

Tell me, how does Putin's superior leadership qualities influence my intelligence? If anything is stupid, it's you failing to make a counterpoint on my argument that Putin is a great leader and instead you resort to 5th grade level insults.

Putin is a great 21st Century leader as domestically he took a nation that was nearly irrelevant and quite literally turned it around and in the process made people's lives better by embracing the principle of a free economy. Internationally, he's made the US look like a joke on the world stage because of the globetrotting jester in White House.

Russia has always been a superpower... And Russia is still more miserable and corrupt than every sure the economy has gotten better but the money doesn't show because it goes to the politicians. Not to mention Putin has created a power vacuum for himself and has repressed minorities as well as has had journalists murdered and has maintained a constant conflict against Chechnya. He may have been a decent leader at first but now he's nothing but another very corrupt power hungry politician.

#24 Edited by TruthTellers (3397 posts) -

Putin hasn't had journalists murdered.

#25 Posted by uninspiredcup (8004 posts) -

George Bush was essentially Tom Cruise from Top Gun but old as fuck;.

Great painter.

#26 Edited by lamprey263 (23300 posts) -

great and influential people can be found all throughout history if you know where to look, we're a bit myopic though since our awareness of current and recent times is more known due to the prevalence of printed press, better record keeping, better educated people, the internet, peoples celebrity status, but we live in a great age though as we're always standing on the shoulders of those before us

also the greatness of our leaders has political propaganda value, of course "Washington never told a lie" is complete bullshit, probably now only believed by libertarians that think the founding fathers were infallible gods

#27 Posted by pie-junior (2821 posts) -

According to Putin's wikipedia page:

"During Putin's first premiership and presidency (1999–2008), real incomes increased by a factor of 2.5, real wages more than tripled; unemployment and poverty more than halved, and the Russians' self-assessed life satisfaction rose significantly.[9] Putin's first presidency was marked by high economic growth: the Russian economy grew for eight straight years, seeing GDP increase by 72% in PPP (sixfold in nominal).[9][10][11][12][13] As Russia's president, Putin and the Federal Assembly passed into law a flat income tax of 13%, a reduced profits tax, and new land and legal codes.[14][15] As Prime Minister, Putin oversaw large scale military and police reform. His energy policy has affirmed Russia's position as an energy superpower.[16]"

Yeah, I'd say that all this is much more important to the people of Russia than gay rights.

The Angolan economy has nearly tripled it's doemstic product in minus 3 years that time with an unemployment drop of over 30%.

world greatest leaders:

José Eduardo dos Santos > Putin

#28 Edited by comp_atkins (31284 posts) -

modern elections require candidates with more showmanship than previous ones. one misstep of a candidate is instantly magnified, interpreted, deconstructed, and transmitted. as such it seems we end up electing people who can skillfully navigate this ridiculous environment we've created as opposed to simply being great leaders. we end up just electing a lot of assholes.

#29 Posted by whipassmt (13998 posts) -

I don't know if I would call FDR a "great leader." He was alright, he did get the U.S. through the Depression and the war. I think he was dedicated and had a heart for the American people, and of course his struggle with polio is inspiring.

I do think he made some serious errors. For one thing he should have been tougher on Stalin, granted Stalin had troops in eastern Europe and so he had more leverage. But the U.S. and U.K. could've had a more united front on Poland and applied more economic and diplomatic pressure (though maybe economic pressure would have only hurt Russian citizens, and not changed Russian policy) and tried to preserve Poland's sovereignty, afterall Poland was an ally and the Poles fought valiantly, particularly in the Battle of Britain and at Monte Cassino. Also I think FDR made a serious miscalculation: he was too opposed to the British Empire and not strongly opposed enough to the Soviets. I think history is quite clear that the Soviet Union was far worse than the British Empire.