Taliban Kill 149 People in Pakistan, Mostly Children.

It seems like your enemy is Islam not the terrorists. And this goes without saying but you're downright pathetic.

I am a Muslim. I live in Pakistan. This happened not but a few miles away from me. Yet all I see on the internet is "Pfft. Islam" "Just muslim things" etc... Now I've come to terms with myself that if there's something worse than ISIS, it's the western people whose only purpose is to antagonize without ever trying to see the truth. What's the difference between those people and the ISIS? well, almost none. Whereas those terrorist use the verses from the Quran in the wrong way to justify what they do, the western people take the same wrong meaning and justify their claims about Islam being 'sexist' or 'barbaric' or whatnot.

It's sad.... if anyone who's sadder than you guys here on the internet, it's us who've seen this tragedy with our own eyes happening in our own country and to our fellow brothers. Yet the world tries it's best to salt our wounds by saying "Oh it's just muslims, it's their religion that tells them to do this"....

I'm done with all this. I'm lost to apathy about anyone. Even the muslims themselves..... just screw it.

do you see how hypocritical your statement is? On one hand you complain about americans disrespecting your religion and classifying all muslims as religious extremeists (terrorists) and then you turn around and do the exact same thing to americans (westerners) by saying there's no difference or little difference between them and isis. If you don't like being labeled as an extremists then do something about it so that stigma becomes unattached.

But even God changed his laws. I gave you a very obvious example where qibla was changed to Kaaba. God does not change his words yet he changed them. So there must be a contradiction within the Quran's text right? But there is none. It "appears" that God has changed his words but in "truth" he has not. To him to bring a different law is to say "Two men and a boy were at the dinner" instead of saying "At the dinner there were two men and a boy". The inner meaning of God's words are the same but only expressed in a different manner or language. That's exactly what would happen if we were to reform the Islamic law. But I guess it's hard to agree on anything beyond this point. Because what we'll be discussing beyond this point is a highly disputed concept in Islamic figh.

You reasoning reminds me of my own when I was younger. I believed the exact same things. Especially with regard to the whole "the ideal society" thing. That used to be my solution too. But I abandoned that a long time ago in favor of reform.

@alim298: That's why different prophets were sent for a different time. Before us was Jesus, and he practically followed the Mosaic Law. But now we have been sent the last and final Messenger who is an example for his time as well as our time. We have to follow the latest revelation and Messenger. You shouldn't seek anything beyond that. Sometimes, you may not agree with some of the laws, and non-Muslims will attack you and say it is terrible, it doesn't work etc. But I ask you, who are you to disagree with the divine revelation? Sometimes we just can't see the wisdom behind things. Just look at the thread I made about public nudity. Not a single person could give me a logical explanation for why it's wrong.

Why do I think it's wrong then? It's because God said so. Simple really. :)

do you see how hypocritical your statement is? On one hand you complain about americans disrespecting your religion and classifying all muslims as religious extremeists (terrorists) and then you turn around and do the exact same thing to americans (westerners) by saying there's no difference or little difference between them and isis. If you don't like being labeled as an extremists then do something about it so that stigma becomes unattached.

Wait, I was having a discussion revolving around Sharia with my friend today who is more knowledgeable on these matters than me. He stated an example from Umar's era when Madina was going through a famine (or maybe it was some other city, I can't recall correctly). Umar abolished the punishment of severing the hand for theft in that particular city for as long as the famine lasted. The reason was solely because who wouldn't steal when his whole family is starving? Under those circumstances, Umar changed the law. Which leads me to the conclusion that Umar felt that law can be changed when the time needs be, so there is certainly some flexibility in Sharia where we can actually change some things to suit our time. Albeit, that should be compatible with the Quran as I can see Umar's logic connecting directly to the verse "Allah does not burden a soul with more than what it can bear".So maybe you are right. Allah knows better. I guess I should give it all a second thought.

Don't worry, you can discuss with me about anything since I don't really care about the inner disputes among Muslims.

*Satire*

that's all you got to say for yourself? meh....not impressed.

May God be pleased with Umar. He certainly acted according to the sunnah of our prophet. But as you said God knows better.

Thank you. I usually refrain from having a religious discussion with a fellow Muslim because it either ends up with the other person completely agreeing with me or completely antagonizing me. I'm glad we could have an insightful discussion on Islam without that happening.

Naive view of the problems in the world. People will never totally get along nor agree with each other. Ever. You can whine and blame religion all you want....though I have read studies showing religion to be under 10% of the reason for total conflicts in history to date. But hey....jump on the simplistic answer.

Been a classy week for Islam, religion of peace indeed. And no, a legal system that involves stoning people is medievil at best.

It's a flawed religion...its followers are flawed. But then again, I think most religions are flawed.

Actually Islam, even in its dated state (in my opinion) is still far better than any other ideologies that exist in the world. For instance I'm not a pro-hijab person really but we can already see how what Islam proposed 1400 years ago to protect and honor women is still the most pro-woman movement in the history of mankind. Forget about all these feminists. We can already see how miserably they failed at honoring women whereas Islam stands tall (as always). What I'm trying to do here is to take a more fundamentalist and philosophical look at our law. The need to change some aspects of it is slowly emerging. It's not inspired by western thinking at all. It's inspired by the very things that make Islam, Islam. And this should not be exclusive to the "new phenomena". We can abrogate laws too. It's part of Islam. But one thing that itches me as much as any other Muslim is "who is to say which law needs to be abrogated and who is to create the new law?" I don't know the answer to that and truth told it appears to me that no one is legitimate to do such thing. Even if you're the most knowledgeable Muslim who knows all about hadith and Quran just think about it for a second. The law that you're going to write down as the "new law" is to replace the law that God created. But it still feels like that we're rather afraid to take such a step but that one day taking such a step would be our only choice. And I leave it the experts to see to solving these paradoxes.

I like the sharia law. As I said it is even to this day if not THE best system of law then certainly one of the best systems of law that ever existed in the course of human history. But we should be aware of God and we should know that perhaps his will is for us to make hard decisions.

First of all, there is no god okay? So once you embrace that your culture can really begin to make some progress. Women need to be treated as equals. They can wear what they choose, do what they choose and fornicate whom they choose.

What's your age?

Meanwhile, all the liberal news stations are focused on bashing America, for pouring water over the heads of taliban members.

Liberals make me want to vomit.

In regards of religion, I trust everyone equally religious or not.

Hard to point the finger when one day a man says he is Taliban and the next day he denies any involvement or support for the organization.

Forgiveness is not real regardless if you seek for it from an "imaginary friend" or an actual living person.

it's irrelevant.

Don't go telling us that we don't respect women.

@br0kenrabbit: It's their choice to follow the religion lol... And what do u mean by culture...

@br0kenrabbit: Hmm wouldn't Edward Snowden be put to death? Anybody who betrays the state and leaks it's secrets is an enemy and will be put to trial. It's not as simple as simple converting to another religion. The person has to betray the state and conspire against it to be counted as an apostate. You should read up on misconceptions about Islam online :)

@br0kenrabbit: Hmm just read about it. You can't blame the system for the wrong judgement of the lawyer. Just like how I wouldn't pick out the policemen shooting black dudes case and say western law as a whole is bad. Exceptions do happen sadly.

@br0kenrabbit: Just watch a YouTube video about apostasy because your knowledge of Islam clearly comes from some highlighted cases gone wrong. And if you are curious you can private message me and I would be more than happy to clear your mosconceptions :) But if your purpose is to put Islam down then I'm sorry this debate will not end with a definitive conclusion. I've hijacked the thread long enough. Where were we?

Oh yeah, kids getting killed :s

@alim298: Ahh I understand now. But really, who has the wisdom of Umar in our present day? :( Feels as though only the Mahdi will possess such wisdom. The time of his appearance feels so close!

It's not protecting them....it's making them a lower class of individual subservient to the men in their lives.

If they're not being droned by one, they're being massacred by another. The people of Pakistan need to stand up to these thugs.

That's pathetic and it flies in the face of basic human rights. You're not doing a good job at defending Islam.

@softwaregeek: you speak as if in Islam men can fornicate with whomsoever they please. And if your definition of equality is women being looked at as sexual objects and represented as such in magazines, video games, movies etc., then I oppose this 'equality' that you speak of. In Islam women are appreciated for their intellect, their kindness, their character. My brother's wife wears the full cover, including her face and it was her choice nobody forced her. She keeps our family together and not once did I think of her in the way the media portrays women. Men are obligated to lower their gaze irrespective of whether the woman is covered or not. Don't go telling us that we don't respect women.

It seems like your enemy is Islam not the terrorists. And this goes without saying but you're downright pathetic.

I am a Muslim. I live in Pakistan. This happened not but a few miles away from me. Yet all I see on the internet is "Pfft. Islam" "Just muslim things" etc... Now I've come to terms with myself that if there's something worse than ISIS, it's the western people whose only purpose is to antagonize without ever trying to see the truth. What's the difference between those people and the ISIS? well, almost none. Whereas those terrorist use the verses from the Quran in the wrong way to justify what they do, the western people take the same wrong meaning and justify their claims about Islam being 'sexist' or 'barbaric' or whatnot.

It's sad.... if anyone who's sadder than you guys here on the internet, it's us who've seen this tragedy with our own eyes happening in our own country and to our fellow brothers. Yet the world tries it's best to salt our wounds by saying "Oh it's just muslims, it's their religion that tells them to do this"....

I'm done with all this. I'm lost to apathy about anyone. Even the muslims themselves..... just screw it.

Indeed.

According to Islam men and women should be paid equally for doing the same work. This is what we've followed for over 1400 years whereas your so called "western civilization" is only catching up now. Only case when they don't get the same amount of money as men is through heritage. And that's because part of a man's money actually belongs to his wife whereas a woman has complete ownership over her money. In other words this way part of the heritage also goes to the daughter-in-law and looking at it this way the money is equally divided between the two genders. A court can't punish a woman for not spending her money for the family even if she is rich but a man can easily be called to court for not spending his money for his family. Which again just shows how pro-women Islam is.

There are many Quranic verses that talk about treating women in the right way. Divorcing them in the most generous manner. Treating them with utmost care. These verses were sent down to a society that treated women like literal shit. They had absolutely zero social relevancy during that period of time until Muslims said no more.

Blasphemers of Mecca used to bury their baby girls alive. They thought they were bad omen. Islam came and opposed this. Islam told them that there's no difference between baby girls and baby boys. Islam was the first movement in history that opposed oppression of women. If Jesus was around at that time he would do the same thing. Only thing is Jesus didn't have the means to do such things. He didn't have a state. He didn't have an army that followed him dearly. But Muslims braved this path. But even Islam could not completely destroy evil. Women could still get harassed and be looked at the wrong way. So what did Islam do to protect women? Islam proposed hijab. So that everyone knows they're Muslim and that they are not willing to be treated like garbage anymore. And even though this method is showing it's age it's still a far better method than what other feminist groups (I mean other than Islam) are proposing. To say that Islam is misogynistic is the dumbest statement ever. I watched that video. The woman in the Hijab does indeed get treated better. However, just because there is a benefit does not mean that it is therefore ok. It infantilizes women. It may make them "safer"

@dsmccracken: It also varies as to where and when etc. I know women walking around the part of the city I live in are not treated poorly. Just left alone. And in some cities a women in a hijab will be on the receiving end of idiots. So the culture of the area is a part....ie correlation does equal causation.

Yes, it's completely fair to equate some admittedly ignorant comments on a message board with mass murder.... totally the same thing.

Indeed.

According to Islam men and women should be paid equally for doing the same work. This is what we've followed for over 1400 years whereas your so called "western civilization" is only catching up now. Only case when they don't get the same amount of money as men is through heritage. And that's because part of a man's money actually belongs to his wife whereas a woman has complete ownership over her money. In other words this way part of the heritage also goes to the daughter-in-law and looking at it this way the money is equally divided between the two genders. A court can't punish a woman for not spending her money for the family even if she is rich but a man can easily be called to court for not spending his money for his family. Which again just shows how pro-women Islam is.

There are many Quranic verses that talk about treating women in the right way. Divorcing them in the most generous manner. Treating them with utmost care. These verses were sent down to a society that treated women like literal shit. They had absolutely zero social relevancy during that period of time until Muslims said no more.

Blasphemers of Mecca used to bury their baby girls alive. They thought they were bad omen. Islam came and opposed this. Islam told them that there's no difference between baby girls and baby boys. Islam was the first movement in history that opposed oppression of women. If Jesus was around at that time he would do the same thing. Only thing is Jesus didn't have the means to do such things. He didn't have a state. He didn't have an army that followed him dearly. But Muslims braved this path. But even Islam could not completely destroy evil. Women could still get harassed and be looked at the wrong way. So what did Islam do to protect women? Islam proposed hijab. So that everyone knows they're Muslim and that they are not willing to be treated like garbage anymore. And even though this method is showing it's age it's still a far better method than what other feminist groups (I mean other than Islam) are proposing. To say that Islam is misogynistic is the dumbest statement ever.

It is relevant. You'll soon see son.