Surprise: Most Black People Support Voter ID laws

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#51 Edited by GeekInkINC (206 posts) -

@Serraph105: the fact that it exits at all is problematic for elections. If fraudulent votes get in that could have been otherwise stopped with a little more accountability, then go for it. No one would be disenfranchised by needing ID. Some people believe it is worth the cost. EVERY vote (even illegal ones) counts, remember?

#52 Posted by GeekInkINC (206 posts) -

It's like sweeping that little bit of dust you see every four years under the rug. Eventually it'll become a problem.

#53 Posted by DaJuicyMan (3531 posts) -

So what's the difference between requirements for someone to express their freedom to vote and requirements for someone to express their freedom to carry firearms in terms of "restricting freedoms?"

#54 Edited by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

What's so fucking hard about showing your ID when you vote? Are people not capable of doing a simple task in this country? It has nothing to do with voter supression, it's called a SYSTEM. Rules are set in place so it's efficient and prevents voter fraud. If there is one case, ONE CASE of voter fraud then it's a bad election. I don't care what your opinion is on the subject, that's a fact. All votes matter and it's what our country is built on.

This country is so stupid sometimes I want to jump off a bridge.

#55 Posted by Serraph105 (28487 posts) -

@geekinkinc said:

@Serraph105: the fact that it exits at all is problematic for elections. If fraudulent votes get in that could have been otherwise stopped with a little more accountability, then go for it. No one would be disenfranchised by needing ID. Some people believe it is worth the cost. EVERY vote (even illegal ones) counts, remember?

So you are going to keep making claims based on nothing, but your own convictions. I'm done then.

#56 Edited by GeekInkINC (206 posts) -

@Serraph105: Disenfranchisement has nothing to do with it. If that was what was happening, people would call it that. But that's not what's happening here. The rules can be seen as a bit to flexible in the eyes of many. Where is there a place where people cannot register to vote locally or online and then proceed to get the necessary items to vote? Nowhere, USA?!

#57 Edited by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@geekinkinc said:

@Serraph105: Disenfranchisement has nothing to do with it. If that was what was happening, people would call it that. But that's not what's happening here. The rules can be seen as a bit to flexible in the eyes of many. Where is there a place where people cannot register to vote locally or online and then proceed to get the necessary items to vote? Nowhere, USA?!

The disenfranchisement ideal attached to showing your ID when you vote is fucking stupid and baseless. Does that mean when you're required to show ID when you buy alcohol you're being racially profiled? They're trying to hold down minorities from buying drinks?

It's simple, just show your ID, and you get to vote. If you're that daft or unable to do such a simple task, then god help you.

#58 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152275 posts) -

@purplelabel said:

@geekinkinc said:

@Serraph105: Disenfranchisement has nothing to do with it. If that was what was happening, people would call it that. But that's not what's happening here. The rules can be seen as a bit to flexible in the eyes of many. Where is there a place where people cannot register to vote locally or online and then proceed to get the necessary items to vote? Nowhere, USA?!

The disenfranchisement ideal attached to showing your ID when you vote is fucking stupid and baseless. Does that mean when you're required to show ID when you buy alcohol you're being racially profiled? They're trying to hold down minorities from buying drinks?

It's simple, just show your ID, and you get to vote. If you're that daft or unable to do such a simple task, then god help you.

Very bad analogy. Very bad. You should be ashamed.

#59 Posted by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

@purplelabel said:

@geekinkinc said:

@Serraph105: Disenfranchisement has nothing to do with it. If that was what was happening, people would call it that. But that's not what's happening here. The rules can be seen as a bit to flexible in the eyes of many. Where is there a place where people cannot register to vote locally or online and then proceed to get the necessary items to vote? Nowhere, USA?!

The disenfranchisement ideal attached to showing your ID when you vote is fucking stupid and baseless. Does that mean when you're required to show ID when you buy alcohol you're being racially profiled? They're trying to hold down minorities from buying drinks?

It's simple, just show your ID, and you get to vote. If you're that daft or unable to do such a simple task, then god help you.

Very bad analogy. Very bad. You should be ashamed.

Great analogy. This whole thread is dumb. It's not that hard to enjoy the privileges of being a US citizen. People are looking for reason to throw racism into shit to get special treatment and it undermines the real problems with racism we have in this country.

#60 Posted by LJS9502_basic (152275 posts) -

@purplelabel said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@purplelabel said:

@geekinkinc said:

@Serraph105: Disenfranchisement has nothing to do with it. If that was what was happening, people would call it that. But that's not what's happening here. The rules can be seen as a bit to flexible in the eyes of many. Where is there a place where people cannot register to vote locally or online and then proceed to get the necessary items to vote? Nowhere, USA?!

The disenfranchisement ideal attached to showing your ID when you vote is fucking stupid and baseless. Does that mean when you're required to show ID when you buy alcohol you're being racially profiled? They're trying to hold down minorities from buying drinks?

It's simple, just show your ID, and you get to vote. If you're that daft or unable to do such a simple task, then god help you.

Very bad analogy. Very bad. You should be ashamed.

Great analogy. This whole thread is dumb. It's not that hard to enjoy the privileges of being a US citizen. People are looking for reason to throw racism into shit to get special treatment and it undermines the real problems with racism we have in this country.

Purchasing alcohol is not even close to being the same as the right to vote. Fail dude. Just admit it.

#61 Posted by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

@purplelabel said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@purplelabel said:

@geekinkinc said:

@Serraph105: Disenfranchisement has nothing to do with it. If that was what was happening, people would call it that. But that's not what's happening here. The rules can be seen as a bit to flexible in the eyes of many. Where is there a place where people cannot register to vote locally or online and then proceed to get the necessary items to vote? Nowhere, USA?!

The disenfranchisement ideal attached to showing your ID when you vote is fucking stupid and baseless. Does that mean when you're required to show ID when you buy alcohol you're being racially profiled? They're trying to hold down minorities from buying drinks?

It's simple, just show your ID, and you get to vote. If you're that daft or unable to do such a simple task, then god help you.

Very bad analogy. Very bad. You should be ashamed.

Great analogy. This whole thread is dumb. It's not that hard to enjoy the privileges of being a US citizen. People are looking for reason to throw racism into shit to get special treatment and it undermines the real problems with racism we have in this country.

Purchasing alcohol is not even close to being the same as the right to vote. Fail dude. Just admit it.

No, it's a requirement of ID. Sorry you can't see the connection.

#62 Edited by MrGeezer (56967 posts) -

@purplelabel said:

What's so fucking hard about showing your ID when you vote? Are people not capable of doing a simple task in this country? It has nothing to do with voter supression, it's called a SYSTEM. Rules are set in place so it's efficient and prevents voter fraud. If there is one case, ONE CASE of voter fraud then it's a bad election. I don't care what your opinion is on the subject, that's a fact. All votes matter and it's what our country is built on.

This country is so stupid sometimes I want to jump off a bridge.

One case of voter fraud won't sway the results of an election. Requiring voter ID will result in thousands of citizens not being able to vote, and that most certainly has a higher potential to sway the results of an election.

Why would you propose a solution to a "problem" when that solution actually makes the problem worse?

#63 Edited by LJS9502_basic (152275 posts) -

@purplelabel said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@purplelabel said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

Very bad analogy. Very bad. You should be ashamed.

Great analogy. This whole thread is dumb. It's not that hard to enjoy the privileges of being a US citizen. People are looking for reason to throw racism into shit to get special treatment and it undermines the real problems with racism we have in this country.

Purchasing alcohol is not even close to being the same as the right to vote. Fail dude. Just admit it.

No, it's a requirement of ID. Sorry you can't see the connection.

There is NO connection. Voting is a right...drinking alcohol is NOT. FYI....ID is not always required to purchase either.

#64 Posted by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

in the states you are required by law to show id to prove you are of age, if somebody doesnt card you, they're not obeying the law

#65 Posted by SpartanMSU (3440 posts) -

@Aljosa23: Why are you obsessed with the US? It's fvcking weird.

#66 Posted by ferrari2001 (17261 posts) -

@comp_atkins said:

@thegerg said:

@alim298 said:

You can vote without an ID card???

That's new.

No it's not.

how do you vote w/o an id? just give them your name and they believe you?

yep pretty much this. It's pretty idiotic if you ask me. I have to show ID in my State however, and there hasn't been a single issue with it. If you are incapable of getting a photo id then chances are you are incapable of getting to the polls to vote as well.

#67 Posted by XaosII (16694 posts) -

@ferrari2001 said:

yep pretty much this. It's pretty idiotic if you ask me. I have to show ID in my State however, and there hasn't been a single issue with it. If you are incapable of getting a photo id then chances are you are incapable of getting to the polls to vote as well.

That makes no sense. My closest voting locale is the local elementary school. You know, the kind of school most of the children walk to. The kind most people in the neighborhood can walk to. Why the hell would a drivers license be required?

#68 Posted by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@ferrari2001 said:

@comp_atkins said:

@thegerg said:

@alim298 said:

You can vote without an ID card???

That's new.

No it's not.

how do you vote w/o an id? just give them your name and they believe you?

yep pretty much this. It's pretty idiotic if you ask me. I have to show ID in my State however, and there hasn't been a single issue with it. If you are incapable of getting a photo id then chances are you are incapable of getting to the polls to vote as well.

agreed.

#69 Edited by HailtotheQueen (289 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

I wonder if they are also for spending time trying to fix problems that don't exist.

Voter fraud certainly exists.

On topic: I'm not sure what the big deal is. I can count on one hand the number of times someone hasn't given me an approved government ID when I have asked for one. And three out of five of them were Caucasians. I've never understood why this would be considered voter suppression.

There have been less than 1000 total cases since 2001 so no, it doesn't really exist. LOL Not enough to actually change any election outcomes anyway. The problem with these laws is that they only affect poor people and disproportionately affect racial minorities, which is the whole point. In many cases, people would have to drive long distances to get a new I.D. and many poor people do not have a car. And to get an I.D. you need several other forms of I.D. If you don't have enough, then you have to do some more driving. For example, if you lost your social security card many smaller cities don't have a local office. Basically, you are creating a lot of problems and without a good reason.

The reason behind this is the same reason why republicans focused on holding up lines for hours in predominantly black voting areas in 2012. Its funny how there weren't any reports of them doing in WHITE areas of course.

This pretty much sums it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIGhSo7zMVg

#70 Posted by airshocker (30893 posts) -

Yeah yeah, we're trying to hold down the black man. Shame on us.

Photo ID should be required to vote. If I have to shlep my way to fix my own problems, so can people without transportation. If I'm going to be miserable dealing with the government, everyone else can be too. Welcome to modern America.

#71 Edited by HailtotheQueen (289 posts) -

@airshocker said:

Yeah yeah, we're trying to hold down the black man. Shame on us.

Photo ID should be required to vote. If I have to shlep my way to fix my own problems, so can people without transportation. If I'm going to be miserable dealing with the government, everyone else can be too. Welcome to modern America.

What should be required is if you are going to create laws that make it more difficult for people to exercise their rights, then you need to PROVE there is a good reason for it. As I pointed out, you can't prove that voter fraud is a problem because the actual numbers don't support that position. That's just the reality of it.

The fact is that this has never been a requirement throughout our history and it hasn't affected a single election because the numbers just are not there.

#72 Edited by airshocker (30893 posts) -

@hailtothequeen said:

@airshocker said:

Yeah yeah, we're trying to hold down the black man. Shame on us.

Photo ID should be required to vote. If I have to shlep my way to fix my own problems, so can people without transportation. If I'm going to be miserable dealing with the government, everyone else can be too. Welcome to modern America.

What should be required is if you are going to create laws that make it more difficult for people to exercise their rights, then you need to PROVE there is a good reason for it. As I pointed out, you can't prove that voter fraud is a problem because the actual numbers don't support that position. That's just the reality of it.

The fact is that this has never been a requirement throughout our history and it hasn't affected a single election because the numbers just are not there.

All I said was voter fraud exists. It does, as you've just proven(though without any documentation I don't believe the number you just gave). I don't really care what prerequisites you think need to be met before action is taken, I simply think all people should have to show a photo ID when voting. Who knows if later on down the road the situation may become worse. I don't believe in being reactionary if it can be avoided.

And obviously this hasn't been a requirement throughout our history. Our earliest ancestors never had the DMV. If they did I think they would have saved us all the misery and killed off our species as a show of mercy.

#73 Posted by ferrari2001 (17261 posts) -

@XaosII said:

@ferrari2001 said:

yep pretty much this. It's pretty idiotic if you ask me. I have to show ID in my State however, and there hasn't been a single issue with it. If you are incapable of getting a photo id then chances are you are incapable of getting to the polls to vote as well.

That makes no sense. My closest voting locale is the local elementary school. You know, the kind of school most of the children walk to. The kind most people in the neighborhood can walk to. Why the hell would a drivers license be required?

I'm implying that if someone is too occupied to go and get a photo id then they are probably to occupied to go vote, especially considering you use photo id's all the time and stores, for travel, etc etc.

#74 Posted by HailtotheQueen (289 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@airshocker said:

Yeah yeah, we're trying to hold down the black man. Shame on us.

Photo ID should be required to vote. If I have to shlep my way to fix my own problems, so can people without transportation. If I'm going to be miserable dealing with the government, everyone else can be too. Welcome to modern America.

What should be required is if you are going to create laws that make it more difficult for people to exercise their rights, then you need to PROVE there is a good reason for it. As I pointed out, you can't prove that voter fraud is a problem because the actual numbers don't support that position. That's just the reality of it.

The fact is that this has never been a requirement throughout our history and it hasn't affected a single election because the numbers just are not there.

All I said was voter fraud exists. It does, as you've just proven(though without any documentation I don't believe the number you just gave). I don't really care what prerequisites you think need to be met before action is taken, I simply think all people should have to show a photo ID when voting. Who knows if later on down the road the situation may become worse. I don't believe in being reactionary if it can be avoided.

And obviously this hasn't been a requirement throughout our history. Our earliest ancestors never had the DMV. If they did I think they would have saved us all the misery and killed off our species as a show of mercy.

Existing and being a problem are two different things. LOL Well, you don't have to believe me. Do the research yourself. Anytime you see someone talking about voter fraud, ask them for evidence that it is indeed a problem and I promise you every single time, they won't have anything. They will just point out a few cases here and there. They will never have any statistics that support the claim that it is a problem because they simply don't exist.

http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/11/13236464-new-database-of-us-voter-fraud-finds-no-evidence-that-photo-id-laws-are-needed

Here is one straight from FOX NEWs since I'm sure you probably trust them. LOL If you want more, just google "voter fraud cases since 2000" and you will find plenty of different sources.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/voter-id-laws-target-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud/

There have only been 2000 alleged cases since 2000 and only about half of them turned out to be legit. And even then, the types of fraud mostly being committed would not even be affected by voter ID laws. LOL Most of the cases involve absentee ballots and voter registration. So yeah, this is a solution without a problem. Or as they said in the video, a solution to a DIFFERENT problem. ;O) Only a total of about 10 cases of in-person voter fraud (the kind that these laws would prevent) have been proven in court since the year 2000.

This is the REAL reason for voter ID laws: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jan/13/steny-hoyer/democratic-leaders-say-quarter-african-americans-d/

If you want to talk about real election fraud then lets talk about things like the Unconstitutional gerry-mandering that republicans got into some trouble for recently in Florida. They changed the districts to the point where their candidate had an unfair advantage until a judge stepped in and said this isn't happening. LOL Now THAT is a real problem and no one seems to care about that. Why is that i wonder? ;O)

#75 Posted by HailtotheQueen (289 posts) -

I'll make this simple. If anyone can prove to me that voter fraud exists to the point where it could potentially change an election outcome, I will personally pay you $100. Show me those non-existent statistics! Good luck. ;O)

#76 Posted by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@hailtothequeen said:

I'll make this simple. If anyone can prove to me that voter fraud exists to the point where it could potentially change an election outcome, I will personally pay you $100. Show me those non-existent statistics! Good luck. ;O)

If one vote is fraudulent it degrades what millions of americans have fought and died to have the right to. You talk about about people having a hard time getting an ID. Seriously, an ID to identify yourself in the country you live in? How stupid do we have be to lower ourselves to people who are just lazy? I renewed my ID this year by MAIL. Racism and minorities have nothing to do with it.

When you say that when voting requires an ID, it's racist and targets minorities, you basically call the minorities ignorant, lazy, and unable to do one of the simplest tasks to survive in a country. I'm sick to death of this race chicken hawk shit where people make excuses for laziness.

#77 Posted by airshocker (30893 posts) -

@hailtothequeen said:

@airshocker said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@airshocker said:

Yeah yeah, we're trying to hold down the black man. Shame on us.

Photo ID should be required to vote. If I have to shlep my way to fix my own problems, so can people without transportation. If I'm going to be miserable dealing with the government, everyone else can be too. Welcome to modern America.

What should be required is if you are going to create laws that make it more difficult for people to exercise their rights, then you need to PROVE there is a good reason for it. As I pointed out, you can't prove that voter fraud is a problem because the actual numbers don't support that position. That's just the reality of it.

The fact is that this has never been a requirement throughout our history and it hasn't affected a single election because the numbers just are not there.

All I said was voter fraud exists. It does, as you've just proven(though without any documentation I don't believe the number you just gave). I don't really care what prerequisites you think need to be met before action is taken, I simply think all people should have to show a photo ID when voting. Who knows if later on down the road the situation may become worse. I don't believe in being reactionary if it can be avoided.

And obviously this hasn't been a requirement throughout our history. Our earliest ancestors never had the DMV. If they did I think they would have saved us all the misery and killed off our species as a show of mercy.

Existing and being a problem are two different things. LOL Well, you don't have to believe me. Do the research yourself. Anytime you see someone talking about voter fraud, ask them for evidence that it is indeed a problem and I promise you every single time, they won't have anything. They will just point out a few cases here and there. They will never have any statistics that support the claim that it is a problem because they simply don't exist.

http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/11/13236464-new-database-of-us-voter-fraud-finds-no-evidence-that-photo-id-laws-are-needed

Here is one straight from FOX NEWs since I'm sure you probably trust them. LOL If you want more, just google "voter fraud cases since 2000" and you will find plenty of different sources.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/voter-id-laws-target-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud/

There have only been 2000 alleged cases since 2000 and only about half of them turned out to be legit. And even then, the types of fraud mostly being committed would not even be affected by voter ID laws. LOL Most of the cases involve absentee ballots and voter registration. So yeah, this is a solution without a problem. Or as they said in the video, a solution to a DIFFERENT problem. ;O) Only a total of about 10 cases of in-person voter fraud (the kind that these laws would prevent) have been proven in court since the year 2000.

This is the REAL reason for voter ID laws: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jan/13/steny-hoyer/democratic-leaders-say-quarter-african-americans-d/

If you want to talk about real election fraud then lets talk about things like the Unconstitutional gerry-mandering that republicans got into some trouble for recently in Florida. They changed the districts to the point where their candidate had an unfair advantage until a judge stepped in and said this isn't happening. LOL Now THAT is a real problem and no one seems to care about that. Why is that i wonder? ;O)

Exactly. So I'm not sure why you're telling me why you don't think it's a problem when that isn't what this is about. It's not unreasonable to expect people to identify themselves before they vote. We have people identify themselves for much more trivial things already.

Nothing that you posted has made me think this is any less of a good idea.

#78 Edited by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@airshocker said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@airshocker said:

Yeah yeah, we're trying to hold down the black man. Shame on us.

Photo ID should be required to vote. If I have to shlep my way to fix my own problems, so can people without transportation. If I'm going to be miserable dealing with the government, everyone else can be too. Welcome to modern America.

What should be required is if you are going to create laws that make it more difficult for people to exercise their rights, then you need to PROVE there is a good reason for it. As I pointed out, you can't prove that voter fraud is a problem because the actual numbers don't support that position. That's just the reality of it.

The fact is that this has never been a requirement throughout our history and it hasn't affected a single election because the numbers just are not there.

All I said was voter fraud exists. It does, as you've just proven(though without any documentation I don't believe the number you just gave). I don't really care what prerequisites you think need to be met before action is taken, I simply think all people should have to show a photo ID when voting. Who knows if later on down the road the situation may become worse. I don't believe in being reactionary if it can be avoided.

And obviously this hasn't been a requirement throughout our history. Our earliest ancestors never had the DMV. If they did I think they would have saved us all the misery and killed off our species as a show of mercy.

Existing and being a problem are two different things. LOL Well, you don't have to believe me. Do the research yourself. Anytime you see someone talking about voter fraud, ask them for evidence that it is indeed a problem and I promise you every single time, they won't have anything. They will just point out a few cases here and there. They will never have any statistics that support the claim that it is a problem because they simply don't exist.

http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/11/13236464-new-database-of-us-voter-fraud-finds-no-evidence-that-photo-id-laws-are-needed

Here is one straight from FOX NEWs since I'm sure you probably trust them. LOL If you want more, just google "voter fraud cases since 2000" and you will find plenty of different sources.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/voter-id-laws-target-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud/

There have only been 2000 alleged cases since 2000 and only about half of them turned out to be legit. And even then, the types of fraud mostly being committed would not even be affected by voter ID laws. LOL Most of the cases involve absentee ballots and voter registration. So yeah, this is a solution without a problem. Or as they said in the video, a solution to a DIFFERENT problem. ;O) Only a total of about 10 cases of in-person voter fraud (the kind that these laws would prevent) have been proven in court since the year 2000.

This is the REAL reason for voter ID laws: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jan/13/steny-hoyer/democratic-leaders-say-quarter-african-americans-d/

If you want to talk about real election fraud then lets talk about things like the Unconstitutional gerry-mandering that republicans got into some trouble for recently in Florida. They changed the districts to the point where their candidate had an unfair advantage until a judge stepped in and said this isn't happening. LOL Now THAT is a real problem and no one seems to care about that. Why is that i wonder? ;O)

Exactly. So I'm not sure why you're telling me why you don't think it's a problem when that isn't what this is about. It's not unreasonable to expect people to identify themselves before they vote. We have people identify themselves for much more trivial things already.

Nothing that you posted has made me think this is any less of a good idea.

I agree. It's like talking to a wall. I swear the ACLU pays people to post on here.

#79 Posted by airshocker (30893 posts) -

@hailtothequeen: Also, your new nickname is chuckles. I don't think I've ever seen someone use so many LOLs in one response.

#80 Posted by PimpHand_Gamer (560 posts) -

Who cares, they're all crooks in the long run because if they are not when they go in, they are when they come out. Too many things can never get done in Washington because there are too many parties with other interests. It's a control scheme built on concessions with the roots being made of money.

#81 Posted by MrGeezer (56967 posts) -

@purplelabel said:

@hailtothequeen said:

I'll make this simple. If anyone can prove to me that voter fraud exists to the point where it could potentially change an election outcome, I will personally pay you $100. Show me those non-existent statistics! Good luck. ;O)

If one vote is fraudulent it degrades what millions of americans have fought and died to have the right to. You talk about about people having a hard time getting an ID. Seriously, an ID to identify yourself in the country you live in? How stupid do we have be to lower ourselves to people who are just lazy? I renewed my ID this year by MAIL. Racism and minorities have nothing to do with it.

When you say that when voting requires an ID, it's racist and targets minorities, you basically call the minorities ignorant, lazy, and unable to do one of the simplest tasks to survive in a country. I'm sick to death of this race chicken hawk shit where people make excuses for laziness.

So...that's a "no", then. You still haven't demonstrated that voter fraud is a problem, ESPECIALLY the specific type of voter fraud that could be prevented with voter ID laws.

Anyone else want to give this a try?

Bottom line: for all intents and purposes, this kind of fraud DOESN'T HAPPEN because there's no incentive for people to do it. It is a NONEXISTENT problem, period. And the "solution" being proposed has a FAR greater potential to sway the results of elections and result in people being unable to vote. Don't you dare talk about "degrading what millions of Americans have fought and died to have the right to", when what you're proposing is an attempt to prevent people from voting.

#82 Edited by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@MrGeezer: If there is one fradulent vote for the opposite party or person I voted for, my vote has been illegally surpressed and basically deleted.

I'm not taking away anybody's right to vote. It's THEIR choice to not get an ID to vote. If you cannot get an ID within a few months time to a year, you have bigger issues or are just plain lazy.

Dance around it all you want, say racism, call the NAACP, al sharpton, I don't care. Be a fucking adult, take responsibilty for your own life, follow the rules so it's fair and protected for everyone.

As a black man living in Michigan, im sick of people acting like my race is helpless and is constantly being attacked. People need to get off their asses and act like adults.

#83 Posted by HailtotheQueen (289 posts) -
@purplelabel said:
@hailtothequeen said:

I'll make this simple. If anyone can prove to me that voter fraud exists to the point where it could potentially change an election outcome, I will personally pay you $100. Show me those non-existent statistics! Good luck. ;O)

If one vote is fraudulent it degrades what millions of americans have fought and died to have the right to. You talk about about people having a hard time getting an ID. Seriously, an ID to identify yourself in the country you live in? How stupid do we have be to lower ourselves to people who are just lazy? I renewed my ID this year by MAIL. Racism and minorities have nothing to do with it.

When you say that when voting requires an ID, it's racist and targets minorities, you basically call the minorities ignorant, lazy, and unable to do one of the simplest tasks to survive in a country. I'm sick to death of this race chicken hawk shit where people make excuses for laziness.

No, as I already explained, the reason why this affects racial minorities more than whites is that racial minorities are more often poor in our country. And as I also pointed out, it can be quite difficult for many poor people to get an I.D. due to time, money and distance concerns. You seem to be using the typical conservative logic that is something isn't a problem for you, then it must not be a problem for anyone.

And your first comment also bring us back to my other argument. If you're worried about something degrading an election then what you should really be concerned about is things like gerry-mandering, which clearly has an effect on election outcomes. You should also be worried about things like republicans holding up lines for hours (hoping that people will have to go back to work or get tired of waiting) in predominantly black voting areas during elections, like they did in 2012. And lets not forget the voter registration fraud like this... http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/20/local/me-fraud20

And this: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/02/v-fullstory/3031585/botched-voter-registration-forms.html

And we can't forget the big one... If you want to know what really degrades votes its the fact that we have allowed money to completely corrupt out entire system with idiocy like Citizens United.

#84 Edited by HailtotheQueen (289 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@airshocker said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@airshocker said:

Yeah yeah, we're trying to hold down the black man. Shame on us.

Photo ID should be required to vote. If I have to shlep my way to fix my own problems, so can people without transportation. If I'm going to be miserable dealing with the government, everyone else can be too. Welcome to modern America.

What should be required is if you are going to create laws that make it more difficult for people to exercise their rights, then you need to PROVE there is a good reason for it. As I pointed out, you can't prove that voter fraud is a problem because the actual numbers don't support that position. That's just the reality of it.

The fact is that this has never been a requirement throughout our history and it hasn't affected a single election because the numbers just are not there.

All I said was voter fraud exists. It does, as you've just proven(though without any documentation I don't believe the number you just gave). I don't really care what prerequisites you think need to be met before action is taken, I simply think all people should have to show a photo ID when voting. Who knows if later on down the road the situation may become worse. I don't believe in being reactionary if it can be avoided.

And obviously this hasn't been a requirement throughout our history. Our earliest ancestors never had the DMV. If they did I think they would have saved us all the misery and killed off our species as a show of mercy.

Existing and being a problem are two different things. LOL Well, you don't have to believe me. Do the research yourself. Anytime you see someone talking about voter fraud, ask them for evidence that it is indeed a problem and I promise you every single time, they won't have anything. They will just point out a few cases here and there. They will never have any statistics that support the claim that it is a problem because they simply don't exist.

http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/11/13236464-new-database-of-us-voter-fraud-finds-no-evidence-that-photo-id-laws-are-needed

Here is one straight from FOX NEWs since I'm sure you probably trust them. LOL If you want more, just google "voter fraud cases since 2000" and you will find plenty of different sources.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/voter-id-laws-target-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud/

There have only been 2000 alleged cases since 2000 and only about half of them turned out to be legit. And even then, the types of fraud mostly being committed would not even be affected by voter ID laws. LOL Most of the cases involve absentee ballots and voter registration. So yeah, this is a solution without a problem. Or as they said in the video, a solution to a DIFFERENT problem. ;O) Only a total of about 10 cases of in-person voter fraud (the kind that these laws would prevent) have been proven in court since the year 2000.

This is the REAL reason for voter ID laws: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jan/13/steny-hoyer/democratic-leaders-say-quarter-african-americans-d/

If you want to talk about real election fraud then lets talk about things like the Unconstitutional gerry-mandering that republicans got into some trouble for recently in Florida. They changed the districts to the point where their candidate had an unfair advantage until a judge stepped in and said this isn't happening. LOL Now THAT is a real problem and no one seems to care about that. Why is that i wonder? ;O)

Exactly. So I'm not sure why you're telling me why you don't think it's a problem when that isn't what this is about. It's not unreasonable to expect people to identify themselves before they vote. We have people identify themselves for much more trivial things already.

Nothing that you posted has made me think this is any less of a good idea.

So you want to infringe on people's voting rights by making it more difficult for them to vote just because of something that isn't even a problem and has never been in the history of our country?

#85 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7877 posts) -
@purplelabel said:

@MrGeezer: If there is one fradulent vote for the opposite party or person I voted for, my vote has been illegally surpressed and basically deleted.

I'm not taking away anybody's right to vote. It's THEIR choice to not get an ID to vote. If you cannot get an ID within a few months time to a year, you have bigger issues or are just plain lazy.

Dance around it all you want, say racism, call the NAACP, al sharpton, I don't care. Be a fucking adult, take responsibilty for your own life, follow the rules so it's fair and protected for everyone.

As a black man living in Michigan, im sick of people acting like my race is helpless and is constantly being attacked. People need to get off their asses and act like adults.

Its shit like this that makes me chuckle. Someone who can't possibly back up their support for voter ID laws based on actual EVIDENCE of fraud. 'Der they must be lazy!'. Or you know, they could also be old or disabled. Oh that's right republicans also want to cut early voting time by huge margins so that more votes will be suppressed. Voter fraud doesn't exist, its the boogie man under the bed that Republicans want you to believe that exists in order to sneak in ways to disenfranchise people.

These laws will do only ONE thing, put an extra barrier and deny certain demographics from being able to vote. Its nothing more than a poll tax.

#86 Edited by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@purplelabel said:

@MrGeezer: If there is one fradulent vote for the opposite party or person I voted for, my vote has been illegally surpressed and basically deleted.

I'm not taking away anybody's right to vote. It's THEIR choice to not get an ID to vote. If you cannot get an ID within a few months time to a year, you have bigger issues or are just plain lazy.

Dance around it all you want, say racism, call the NAACP, al sharpton, I don't care. Be a fucking adult, take responsibilty for your own life, follow the rules so it's fair and protected for everyone.

As a black man living in Michigan, im sick of people acting like my race is helpless and is constantly being attacked. People need to get off their asses and act like adults.

Its shit like this that makes me chuckle. Someone who can't possibly back up their support for voter ID laws based on actual EVIDENCE of fraud. 'Der they must be lazy!'. Or you know, they could also be old or disabled. Oh that's right republicans also want to cut early voting time by huge margins so that more votes will be suppressed. Voter fraud doesn't exist, its the boogie man under the bed that Republicans want you to believe that exists in order to sneak in ways to disenfranchise people.

These laws will do only ONE thing, put an extra barrier and deny certain demographics from being able to vote. Its nothing more than a poll tax.

You can get ID's through mail, and vote through mail. I don't see why this is such a hard of a task for something you probably already have or should have?

Evidence of fraud? I've seen people booted out of voting areas (Detroit, especially during the kwame kilpatrick elections, research it, it was fucked up). It's needed. Most people in this thread probably voted for the first time last election or haven't even voted yet. Stop living through random web articles you google for and actually experience the world.

I'm going to put this in english so everybody, including the feminist in the thread can understand. There has been cases of voter fraud, it's already been talked about in this thread. I'm not talking large scale, i'm talking it has occurred period. If it has occured it has interrupted and corrupted the voting process. IT DEGRADES the value of my vote. None of this disenfranchise shit that they're calling for happened or was a problem in the last 3-4 elections I voted in until this one, when race was used a political weapon to give someone an angle. It's really sad that people are falling for that fucking angle, but kids are kids and are quite naive.

#87 Posted by MrGeezer (56967 posts) -

@purplelabel said:

. Stop living through random web articles you google for and actually experience the world.

Anecdotal experience doesn't count for shit, that's why people are supposed to look at hard fucking data before implementing policies that affect millions of people.

#88 Posted by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@MrGeezer said:

@purplelabel said:

. Stop living through random web articles you google for and actually experience the world.

Anecdotal experience doesn't count for shit, that's why people are supposed to look at hard fucking data before implementing policies that affect millions of people.

No.

#89 Posted by ad1x2 (5789 posts) -

For the life of me it is getting old that people insist that voter ID laws are racist against minorities who supposedly can't get their hands on identification. If a black man can become President of the United States then a black man can get a $10-$20 state ID card. Yes, I'm aware that the president is mixed but most people who cheered his election made it a point to point out that he is the first black president and do so to this day.

I grew up in or around some poor neighborhoods and I've seen people who lived in $30 a month project apartments while collecting welfare and food stamps able to get ID cards. In my opinion, people who go on and on claiming how "helpless" minorities are in terms of getting identification are insulting them saying they are too stupid to figure out a way to get an ID. Usually you only need a birth certificate, Social Security Card, and proof of address for those things and if you are a US citizen that can't get the first two then that tells me you have bigger issues than trying to vote.

#90 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7877 posts) -

@purplelabel said:

You can get ID's through mail, and vote through mail. I don't see why this is such a hard of a task for something you probably already have or should have?

Evidence of fraud? I've seen people booted out of voting areas (Detroit, especially during the kwame kilpatrick elections, research it, it was fucked up). It's needed. Most people in this thread probably voted for the first time last election or haven't even voted yet. Stop living through random web articles you google for and actually experience the world.

I'm going to put this in english so everybody, including the feminist in the thread can understand. There has been cases of voter fraud, it's already been talked about in this thread. I'm not talking large scale, i'm talking it has occurred period. If it has occured it has interrupted and corrupted the voting process. IT DEGRADES the value of my vote. None of this disenfranchise shit that they're calling for happened or was a problem in the last 3-4 elections I voted in until this one, when race was used a political weapon to give someone an angle. It's really sad that people are falling for that fucking angle, but kids are kids and are quite naive.

I don't care about your anecdotal evidence of supposed 'voter fraud', we have actual statistics and studies done on it. At the amount now its barely even on the radar, and in case you haven't been paying attention, reviews on the types of voter fraud committed wouldn't even be STOPPED by having voter ID laws in place.

What you're effectively saying is we need to institute voter ID laws to combat an almost non-existent problem, which in retrospect wouldn't even be alleviated by said law.

Look I know that getting an ID isn't necessarily the hardest thing, hell I agree with you on that. But quick acting like these laws are trying to be put into place in order to curb voter fraud. Its no coincidence that republicans are trying to institute these laws and democrats are strongly opposed to them. Both sides know that enacting or getting rid of them offers an edge in the elections. They wouldn't be clashing over it if it didn't.

#91 Edited by PurpleLabel (314 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan said:

@purplelabel said:

You can get ID's through mail, and vote through mail. I don't see why this is such a hard of a task for something you probably already have or should have?

Evidence of fraud? I've seen people booted out of voting areas (Detroit, especially during the kwame kilpatrick elections, research it, it was fucked up). It's needed. Most people in this thread probably voted for the first time last election or haven't even voted yet. Stop living through random web articles you google for and actually experience the world.

I'm going to put this in english so everybody, including the feminist in the thread can understand. There has been cases of voter fraud, it's already been talked about in this thread. I'm not talking large scale, i'm talking it has occurred period. If it has occured it has interrupted and corrupted the voting process. IT DEGRADES the value of my vote. None of this disenfranchise shit that they're calling for happened or was a problem in the last 3-4 elections I voted in until this one, when race was used a political weapon to give someone an angle. It's really sad that people are falling for that fucking angle, but kids are kids and are quite naive.

I don't care about your anecdotal evidence of supposed 'voter fraud', we have actual statistics and studies done on it. At the amount now its barely even on the radar, and in case you haven't been paying attention, reviews on the types of voter fraud committed wouldn't even be STOPPED by having voter ID laws in place.

What you're effectively saying is we need to institute voter ID laws to combat an almost non-existent problem, which in retrospect wouldn't even be alleviated by said law.

Look I know that getting an ID isn't necessarily the hardest thing, hell I agree with you on that. But quick acting like these laws are trying to be put into place in order to curb voter fraud. Its no coincidence that republicans are trying to institute these laws and democrats are strongly opposed to them. Both sides know that enacting or getting rid of them offers an edge in the elections. They wouldn't be clashing over it if it didn't.

These laws have been into affect for awhile now, how come liberals never raised any flags until we had a black president running?

#92 Edited by Barbariser (6761 posts) -

Rasmussen is a notoriously unreliable pollster due to their heavy right wing bias. Voter ID laws are not inherently wrong, but the issue that they are attempting to solve is too insignificant to have any political effect to justify the immense cost of implementing them across the vast, populous and infrastructurally deficient United States - European countries are far more densely populated, making such laws cheaper and easier to implement. Even if they were worth the trouble, the specific attempts by Republicans were pretty much judged by the courts to have the characteristics of a poll tax, making them unconstitutional.

These laws were specifically designed in a way that made voting less convenient and more expensive for left-wing demographics, which means that they would have created mass disenfranchisement. Unfortunately the G.O.P. has shown little to no interest in crafting sensible voter ID laws that would actually mitigate the U.S.'s minuscule voter fraud issues without unduly inconveniencing voters. They have overwhelmingly preferred to legislate voter I.D. in a fashion that reveals their true intention, which is disenfranchisement of probable Democrat voters - not electoral integrity.

#94 Edited by GoldenElementXL (3777 posts) -

I don't understand why people think Voter fraud is so big. Has everyone here voted before?

You have to go to your districts designated voting station to vote. Your name is on a list there and is marked off when you get your ballot.

For someone to make a fraudulent vote they would have to correctly guess the name of a person that lives in that district.

The only other way is to register to vote in multiple counties. Scott Walkers tough stance on voter fraud did manage to catch someone doing this. Unfortunately it was a Walker supporter.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/robert-monroe-voter-fraud-wisconsin

Also I have ALWAYS been asked for my I.D. when I vote. So both sides arguments seem silly to me.

#95 Posted by whipassmt (14399 posts) -

@korvus said:

@whipassmt said:

@korvus said:

Anybody willing to explain to me what the Voter ID law is?

I think it means that in order to vote you have to show a photo ID (driver's license, pistol permit, passport, etc.) so that the people at the booth know you are who you say you are. Do you have such laws in your country? The idea behind it is to prevent people from voting using someone else's name.

We certainly do. I'm assuming it's the same all over Europe but at least in Portugal and the Netherlands (both countries where I've lived) we get told in which booth to vote, we show our ID card, they scratch our name from the list and you're good to go. In Portugal we even have a voter number that determines where we can go to vote.

How do you guys control who voted and guarantee that the same people don't vote several times?

I've only voted twice so I don't exactly know how it works, plus it varies from state to state. If I remember correctly what you do is state your name and the volunteer checks to see if your name is on the list and then you basically show something to prove that you are that person (could be a photo ID such as a driver's license, or it could be a piece of mail that was sent to you showing your name and residence).

Oh. I looked it up, basically in order to vote in person in Connecticut you have to show either: 1. A photo ID that includes your name and address or 2. Present a copy of a utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck or government document that shows your name and address. Or you can cast a "provisional ballot".

I think many states are similar. The problem with allowing those forms of ID that don't include a photo is that it's possible that the person showing that ID might not be the person he is claiming to be. If all it takes is a utility bill, someone can grab your water bill out of your mail box, and use that to vote under your name.

#96 Posted by whipassmt (14399 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@korvus said:

Anybody willing to explain to me what the Voter ID law is?

It's a Republican scheme used to disenfranchise voters and get people who generally vote Democrat away from voting in general. It's all bullshit, voter "fraud" is less than 1% or some absurdly low number like that. Completely useless to waste time on it. Even funnier when this is coming from the supposed "fiscally responsible" party yet so hellbent on spending money on pointless laws and regulations.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/voter-id-laws-charts-maps

Do you have voter ID laws in Canada? What type of ID/documents do you need to show in order to vote in Canada or in your province?

#97 Posted by MrGeezer (56967 posts) -

@whipassmt said:

I've only voted twice so I don't exactly know how it works, plus it varies from state to state. If I remember correctly what you do is state your name and the volunteer checks to see if your name is on the list and then you basically show something to prove that you are that person (could be a photo ID such as a driver's license, or it could be a piece of mail that was sent to you showing your name and residence).

Oh. I looked it up, basically in order to vote in person in Connecticut you have to show either: 1. A photo ID that includes your name and address or 2. Present a copy of a utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck or government document that shows your name and address. Or you can cast a "provisional ballot".

I think many states are similar. The problem with allowing those forms of ID that don't include a photo is that it's possible that the person showing that ID might not be the person he is claiming to be. If all it takes is a utility bill, someone can grab your water bill out of your mail box, and use that to vote under your name.

Pretty much no one is willing to do that though, because the benefits aren't proportional to the risks. At best, all you're getting out of it is one freaking vote, and that's not much of an incentive when the risks include going to prison. Voter turnout is already pretty shitty in the first place, so I don't know why some people think that there are just these hordes of people out there who are desperate to steal one or two votes.That's a group that just doesn't really exist.