(Star Wars Spoilers) Please answer my queries regarding REY

QUESTION 1. Who do you think Mysterious REY is? Daughter of Luke?

QUESTION 2. Can Ray become most powerful Jedi in Star Wars Universe even surpassing Luke? I'm saying this because without any sort of Jedi training Rey defeated trained Sith Kylo in both Mind Power game and Saber Duel. I'm just thiking about the possibilities/what could Rey do if she gets complete training of the Force from Luke.

QUESTION 3. Is Something going on between REY and FINN or they gonna be just freinds?

Its too early, BUT what you think OT? :)

Edited your thread title since it was a bit too vague for people who haven't watched the movie to realise what they'd be clicking on =)

As for your questions I do think she has the potential to become the greatest Jedi...even though people were accusing her of being a Mary Sue for having all that power seemingly without training I actually liked it. Throughout the movies we've seen so many Masters studying the Force, trying to learn it so that they can master it...I felt like Rey did it the "right way"...instead of forcing it she just surrendered to it and accepted it so it could flow freely within her.

That being said, Ren was a mess in that movie....Jar Jar could probably knock him out...expect him to be more focused on the next movie and transforming all that rage into actual power.

And yeah, she's probably a Skywalker...some people say she might be a Kenobi, but I don't think so...I felt like that scene with the lightsaber and the visions was trying to show legacy...Anakin, then Luke, now Rey.

As for Finn, probably love interest...those things normally start on the first movie.

I don't like that, because that breaks the series' rules. The Force doesn't work like that. It's not just that Rey kicked Kylo Ren's ass with ZERO training whatsoever, it's also that Finn, a fucking STORM TROOPER managed to put up a decent fight against Kylo Ren with no apparent Force sensitivity whatsoever. But yeah, it's ALSO the fact that Rey kicked Kylo Ren's ass. I don't care if she's naturally Force sensitive, I don't care if she's Luke Skywalker's daughter or not. I mean, fucking Kylo Ren was Darth Vader's grandson and Luke Skywalker's nephew, and he also trained under Luke Skywalker. If Rey's abilities are being explained away by the Skywalker connection, then that still fails. Anakin Skywalker was like, one bad motherfucker, but it would've been stupid as hell if George Lucas had little Anakin be the one to defeat Darth Maul. And btw, Anakin got his ass kicked by Obi-Wan Kenobi. Also, even Luke Skywalker had to go through quite a bit of training. And Luke Skywalker got his ass kicked by Darth Vader even after training with Yoda. And don't try to bring up how he blew up the Death Star while never having piloted an X-Wing. As stupid as that was, at least there's some basis for him having some experience doing some kind of piloting and shooting ("this is just like shooting wamprats back home").

And yes, Kylo Ren actually WAS powerful as ****. The damn movie opens with him stopping a fucking plasma bolt in mid air, and holding it there for several minutes while he's doing other shit on the side. That shit was seriously just sick, dude. For him to be able to do that AND for him to be Darth Vader's grandson AND for him to have trained under Luke Skywalker makes it just ridiculously stupid that he could get his ass kicked by a woman who never had a single day of Force training.

And please don't point out how Kylo Ren had been injured before the fight. Yes, he was injured. But given the vast disparity in powers, that shouldn't have made a single bit of difference. Hell, at the beginning of the fight, WHILE HE WAS INJURED, he slammed Rey against a tree and effortlessly knocked her right the **** out. There's no reason why he couldn't have done that at any other point in the fight.

Why can't Kylo Ren just use the force to crush his opponents lightsaber /thread.

@MrGeezer: I never said Rey's abilities have anything to do with her lineage, but exactly due to her lack of training so no preconceived notions about how the Force works so she didn't restrict herself mentally. Again, this is pure conjecture on my part.

Also, Ren was all over the place....he starts the movie stopping a bolt in mid-air and ends up getting shot by one....not to mention, as you said, who the f*ck gets hit by a stormtrooper?

And here's another thing that I seriously dislike about the notion that the "right way" of using The Force is to surrender to it and not force it. That implies that the solution to life's problems is to just stop fucking trying. That's a HORRIBLE message to be sending today's youths.

And I'm not trying to say that every movie has to promote some responsible message to the kids. But given the nature of this franchise and these kinds of movies in general, that's a HUGE part of why people love them so much. And these are largely kids' movies, characters like Luke and Yoda and Rey are sort of serving as life lessons. People complained like hell when George Lucas introduced midichlorians, because of the notion that that ruined the mystical nature of what Star Wars was always about. But I think it'd be an equally shitty take on the material to say, "Luke Skywalker did it all wrong; he shouldn't have tried at all, and then greatness would have just come to him."

One of the basic principles of this series has always been that innate talent (or fate/destiny/whatever) only gets one so far. One actually has to work one's ass off to make that happen. To completely reverse that and say that the other Jedi were fucking things up by actually TRYING is actually OFFENSIVE in the context of a series that legitimately serves as inspirational material for our world's youths. I'm not saying that there's something wrong with exploring that notion in ALL fiction, but that kind of shit just plain doesn't fit in Star Wars and is entirely opposed to the good vs bad message that has played a big part in this series' cultural relevance.

@MrGeezer: Or we can stop thinking so hard and just accept that SW is not the best place to search for an intricate story and just a nice place to look at lightsaber battles and spend 2 hours of your Saturday evening...seriously, I think you're giving the movie more thought than Disney did.

@korvus: Look, I've been pretty dismissive of the ENTIRE Star Wars series. People say that I'm contrarian because I don't mind the prequels that much, and I never thought that the original trilogy was that great in the first place.

But let's be realistic here: if ALL that people saw Star Wars as was "just a nice place to look at lightsaber battles and spend 2 hours of your Saturday evening", then Star Wars wouldn't have NEARLY the cultural relevance that it does, and people wouldn't have been legitimately ANGRY at the prequels.

No, I don't think that it's "thinking too hard" to ask Star Wars to at least respect the basic operating rules that it has established. And one of the rules is that the Force doesn't work like you're saying that it does. For Disney to say, "**** George Lucas, that's exactly how the Force works now", would indeed be taking a gigantic shit on the Star Wars legacy.

@MrGeezer: And how exactly does the Force work? You yourself said they made the Force to be this mystical mumbo jumbo...it's either that or midichlorian count...Anakin was "seeing things before they happen" before he ever encountered a Jedi...which didn't seem to be very useful when he lost all his limbs years later...

Yoda says that size doesn't matter to the Force, that's why it's as easy to lift an X-Wing as it is a rock....and yet on Episode II he almost craps himself holding a pillar that's about to crush Obi-Wan and Anakin. (Unless those 16 years in Dagobah somehow taught him more about the Force than the previous 900 years...in which case, damn...)

Fear leads to the dark side and all that and yet the Jedi Counsel is so afraid of the Dark Side they are permanently panicking about everything their Padawans do...if fear leads to the dark side Yoda would be a Sith Lord...

Star Wars doesn't even bother playing by its own rules...so yeah, "Jedi have been doing it wrong this whole time" wouldn't surprise me in the least.

I'm not really into the mary sue accusation since to some extent every fictional character is a mary sue but for real every new charater in that movie is a mary sue. Rey is the greatest jedi evar and knows more about the falcon than han. Finn is the 2nd greatest jedi evar who can take a saber hit and keep on truckin plus a better jar jar when he needs to be the comic relief. New chick yoda (or choda if you will) is kinder wiser and yoda-y-er than yoda. Game of thrones stormtrooper is best trooper ever (not counting gary). Darth solo was instantly relatable. Bridge crews are now even more british and super Cool new rebel pilot can now snipe individual ground troopers who present the most danger to heros on the ground. Even the death star gets in on the action by being the coolest new death star. Its a fun movie and all but it feels like cranking everyone to 11 and breaking off the knob may not have been the best storytelling choice to make.

I liked the idea that Rey is learning she has force ability/sensitivity and is learning to use it but I think they just took it way to far in the first movie. Does education and training mean nothing any longer? At her rate she'll be immortal and have the ability to implode entire planets by the next movie.

I loved the character Rey. I think that she is a Skywalker and believe that she certainly has the potential to become the most powerful Jedi. Also I think that there is something going on between her and Finn.

Rey is Luke's daughter, I was pretty much convinced even before the final scene.

1. She is "lead" by the Force to finding his (and his father's) lightsaber in the basement of some place she's never been before (this alone convinced me).
2. The age of which she was marooned on Jakku would suggest she may have already had some training in the Force and Luke may have wiped her memory (part of the vision shows Luke and R2 in what almost looks like ruins of what can be assumed to be his Jedi training centre after the attack of the Knights of Ren, and it is definitely from the perspective of a child's height).
3. Her ability to not only use the Force (for the Mind Trick and resisting Kylo Ren) and handle a lightsaber shows she is EXTREMELY powerful in the ways of the Force; suggesting she is the child of a child of a jedi (Anakin>Luke>Rey), especially after having zero (known) connection/training before that point.
4. If Snoke is Plagueis, his power is going to be IMMENSE, and any means he can of getting to Luke, including his children, would be very easy pickings, and Luke deciding to hide Rey on Jakku (through Han, having him take her there and leave the ship; this is shown by how quickly he warms to her in the movie).

In the end, the final scene sealed it. Luke's reaction to Rey showing up completely gave it away. His face was that of a father's seeing his long-lost daughter for the first time in probably 20-something years.

Luke's daughter I believe though I do agree they had there winning light saber battles way early and with zero training. Poor writing there.

What lightsaber battle did she win? Her and Ren traded blows and then were separated before anything was decided.

The fact that he was down and she was standing is a win to me......and I don't think she should have been able to beat someone who studied and practiced for years.

What evidence is there that Ren has done that? He has rage-control issues and fights rather haphazardly compared to people like Dooku or Vader.

He is probably only a step or two above Rey... and that's assuming she isn't Luke's daughter, and not already been trained in the way of the Force/Jedi.

@korvus: Yeah, this series is an absolute mess if you try to rationalize every detail. Even the finer points of the timeline aren't consistent, but that's OK with me. Even with the best writers and the strictest adherence to universe's Bible, the longer something runs the more likely it is to break it's own rules. That holds doubly true when it's ownership starts to change hands and it transcends the generation in which it began.

Just enjoy the movies for what they are and don't panic over the mistakes. We're very forgiving of these things with other properties, I don't see why people get themselves worked up over a minor 5 year timeline mistake in the Star Wars and Star Trek universes (as an example).

@foxhound_fox: I find it interesting that you brought up the theory of Snoke been Plagueis. It's interesting that the idea came mostly from Snokes scaring and not really knowing anything else about him, and knowing that Plagueis was "killed" by Palpatine but he was learning how to create life and avoid death. Yet we all know someone else from Star Wars, who has a very similar scaring to Snoke...

OK, I'm mostly joking, and I certainly don't believe that Snoke is Vader, but you can't deny the similarities, the scar on top of his head, as well as both sides of his mouth and some of the difference could simply be accounted to the fact that Luke burnt Vader's body. In fact, I'd say he looks closer to Vader than he does Plagueis, because Snoke looks NOTHING like any other Muun's seen throughout the Saga (and they are seen in the prequel movies and Clone Wars, so they have a canon appearance).

Also, let's be honest here, who better to be controlling the Vader obsessed Ren than Vader himself? Their is already talk about how Hayden Christensen was supposed to be repising the role of Anakin in VII and that he might be coming into VIII. So what if that's it, Heyden comes back to play a representation of Vader's "Light" and Snoke is a physical incarnation of Vader's "Dark".

Firstly, even if the movies haven't been entirely consistent, that doesn't mean that it's not a bad idea to keep introducing more inconsistencies.

Secondly, you still failed to mention how saying "the Jedi have been doing it wrong the whole time" would actually be a good idea. Inconsistencies aside, how exactly does it benefit the overall mythology to completely dismiss all of the hard work and training that goes into becoming a powerful Force user? What would be the point of doing such a thing?

Thirdly, what you propose wouldn't make an ounce of sense. Even ignoring the thousands of years of Jedi/Sith history that have apparently been covered in side material, the movies themselves at least imply that use of the Force has a very long history. Are we really supposed to believe that at no point in time did the Jedi or Sith figure out that training actually HURTS people's ability to channel The Force? Why do the Jedi and Sith have a master/apprentice relationship? Why is there a freaking Jedi Academy? In the hundred/thousands of years that people have been using the Force, not one single person actually noticed that training only serves to HINDER people's ability to use the Force? And please don't say that I'm thinking too much about this, that's literally the first freaking question that comes up if what you are proposing were to happen.

@mattbbpl: Yeah, it doesn't bother me. To me Star Wars was always a "switch brain off and enjoy the movie" kind of franchise.

@MrGeezer: I think you misunderstood me; I'm neither saying that you're wrong nor that I think it was a great movie. Yes, it was handled badly and yeah, mostly everything about ep VII was a bad idea. I'm just saying that to me the only way I can enjoy those movies is to just not question them and find my own version of what the hell kind of garbled mess they're serving me for those 2 hours. As I said before, I think the movies are the weakest part of SW universe.

And shit, they even do that sort of meta-humor, where they make fun of themselves for being lame and then act as if that excuses them for being lame.

Like, that scene where the Resistance is discussing how to defeat Starkiller Base. They describe the whole thing, and someone is like, "so basically it's another Death Star." Then another dude is like, "no, this is the Death Star. THIS is Starkiller base." And Han Solo is like, "yeah, I get it, it's big. We can still blow it up." And then they proceed to blow it up EXACTLY the same as last time: they just fly inside and start shooting shit.

But seriously, I'm starting to HATE that kind of crap. That whole exchange of dialogue can't have happened without one of the writers realizing "yes, this is just another Death Star and we're going to destroy it just the same as last time. Fans will certainly notice that, so let's make fun of the concept before they do." And then when people point out that that's exactly what happened last time, that whole part of the movie can be dismissed as a deliberate homage since the fact that the characters made fun of it makes it an intentional artistic decision.

And like...NO. That's a stupid thing to have in the movie, the characters flat out acknowledge that. Being cute and self-deprecating doesn't make that better, that makes it WORSE. The writers knew what they were doing well enough to have the actual characters make a joke about what the writers were doing, and yet the writers still did it. If you know that something sucks to such a degree that you have to defend yourrself by proactively having the characters comment on it in order to make it seem like the writers are in on the joke, then there's a very good chance that they should have just come up with a better idea. Even the CHARACTERS in this movie are pointing out how derivative this movie is, and that's supposed to make it okay?

See? This is exactly what I meant when I said you were putting more thought into the movie than Disney did. It was not meant as an insult towards you, but towards them.

You really can chalk that up to incredibly poor writing.. I felt both protagonists were both poorly written, especially Finn..

some more background on him would have been good. irrc he mentioned that the event at the start of the movie was his first mission and all of the sudden boom! he's helping a high value prisoner escape?

@comp_atkins: They did say his brainwashing didn't quite take so when he saw innocents getting blasted for no good reason he grabbed the first pilot he could get his hands on and left.

maybe brainwashing quality assurance is needed? what is the MTBF (mean time between fails) for stormtroopers? no wonder their empire fell apart with such shoddy quality control processes in place...

We aren't talking about just brainwashing, but years upon years of indoctrination.. He mentions he was kidnapped at a young age, so young he doesn't remember his original name.. It was really poor writing.

@comp_atkins: Well, a stormtrooper did hit someone so maybe they are getting better =P

@sSubZerOo: True, not exactly the same thing =)

@korvus: I can totally see you and MrGeezer being SW BFF's. You guys should get matching lightsabers.

Or young people could take away that an open mind can bring many rewards. It all depends on your perspective.

Kylo isnt a sith.

Such idea

Very friendship

Much homoerotic!

Star Doge!

@foxhound_fox: Why doesn't Leia recognize her?

@korvus: It's like you read my mind.

@spike6958 said:

Snoke looks like a burnt version of ROTJ Vader.

I... I don't know what to think right now.

Even his goddamn nose is turned on the right side.

Perhaps Plagueis took Vader's remains and reanimated himself within them? Considering the midichlorian/physical part of the Force, that might be a means for him to gain some serious power.

May 2017 can't come soon enough!

Luke stood over him as he was burnt to a cinder, the entire movie is basically one big iconography.

His helmet survived.

But he didn't. He didn't complete his training with Luke and since then there were no other Jedi's, no one else to challenge him whatsoever. He only used his lightsaber for cutting random objects in half, and depended entirely on the intimidating facade that he put up.
You also gotta consider that he was injured badly before the fight.

Well yea, that's magic space metal. Flesh is like butter to heat.

Besides (and granted this is applying logic to fantasy), they had a cloning facility.

@korvus: maybe the empire / first order / whatever they call themselves these days need to implement storm trooper burn-in before going live to avoid early life failures. have them go kill a cat or and ewok or something to ensure loyalty

That's the thing: I'm pretty confident that Disney DID think of this. I mean, the prequels sucked, but at least I think that George Lucas was actually trying to do his best. He just sucked at it. I can't get mad at that, everyone ****s up. The annoying thing about The Force Awakens is that I actually think they could have made it better.

Case in point, the sort of meta-humor that I was talking about. That alone sort of indicates that the writers probably knew exactly what they were doing. By making the characters sort of comment on the lame idea, that sort of indicates that the writers knew that it was kind of a lame idea. But instead of finding a better idea (which they totally could have done), they keep the lame idea and just try to play cute with it as if they're in on the joke. THAT'S frustrating. It's frustrating because I'm sure they damn well knew better and they still did it anyway. It doesn't look like they just didn't think about it hard enough, or didn't realize what they were doing. At least that's more forgivable (to me) because at least then they'd be trying their hardest.

EDIT: just to clarify that I didn't realize that the TOS had changed and that the F word is now off-limits. So, like...sorry. Anyway, thanks guys for not moderating me for all the f-bombs that I already dropped in this thread (and probably several other threads within the last week or so).

1) If she is Luke's daughter, there will be a far more intricate reveal then merely "sorry kid, figure you'd like the warm weather." I think there may be some other curve ball they throw in there in that regard. On the other hand, I would not be surprised if she ends up not being Luke's daughter.

2) The force itself seems to manifest itself particular in times of need, or when the shift of good/bad is too one-sided. So with how more militant and radical the First Order is, coupled with Kylo Ren's seemingly invincible status as being the only known powerful force user (excluding the Knights of Ren, which he is the leader of anyway), I think the force manifested itself to her in a much quicker and powerful way to balance things. All that being said, she of course has the potential to become a very powerful Jedi.

3) It all depends on whether Luke's training will involve her cutting off even the potential for romantic entanglements. And with how poorly written/executed the prequels' story of "disobeying the mandate," I really don't know what they'll do there.

To conclude, DAISY RIDLEY IS SO BEAUTIFUL. LIKE HOLY...

@MrGeezer: I agree.

I did rewatch the film and found that for the most part, he whipped Fin's ass. Fin had that one shot on Kylo Ren because it looks like Kylo Ren starts slacking off and toying with Fin.

As for the Rey scene. He whips Rey for the most part, until the end and he gets whipped inside of 30 seconds. It's like the fight should have stopped there when he was winning with the planet pulling apart. Similar to how Luke is defeated by Vader but escapes.

MY THEORY

Is that Luke trained Rey. She's a trained Jedi. But some Jedi mind something blocked her memories. Apparently the leaked script of Episode 7 is that Luke recognizes Rey. Episode VIII is going to have to explain a lot.

Well, honestly, the reason why they sucked was because no one questioned Lucas' choices. There wasn't a system of checks in place to make sure that what he was doing was his top-quality material. That, and he decided not to outsource any of the hard work (i.e. scripting) and just did it himself.

There was a semblance of a bunch of great ideas in the prequel trilogy, but they fell flat due to bad writing. Personally, I quite enjoyed the build up between Anakin and Sidious in Revenge of the Sith. I thought that was not only well-executed, but well written (for Lucas' standards). It helps that Ian McDiarmid is a top-shelf actor and can pull off miracles with crap for lines.

1. Given the "writers" penchant for reproducing the original movie I'm going to bet they do the same for the sequel. You'll have a "I am your father." Moment between Rey & ..... Snoke.

2. As stated previously I predict like The Empire Strikes Back Luke/Rey will begin training with Yoda/Luke who will tell her she's going too hard too fast & risks the dark side. Luke/Rey will be like yo stfu old guy you're hiding I'm going to fight ! Luke/Rey will rush out to confront Snoke who is like "Yo bitch *force lightnings her tits* I AM YO DADDY."

3. Who knows what they'll do with Finn. Perhaps he knows intimate detail about some other First Order base he swept the floors in (sarcasm). It'll be hard to include him anywhere in further plot lines. Unless of course and I'm probably giving the "writers" too much credit they made Finn a mole for the The First Order. However, I can't see them sacrificing their Star Killer base for that. Although it COULD have been an interesting twist in The Force Awakens... but hey... writers... .pfah.

There is a theory regarding one of their scenes together.

Serkis has STATED snoke is an ORIGINAL character.

John Williams uses the same music anytime the sith are on screen, just like Luke has his theme. That isn't Plaguis theme... its Sith. Similar to how Vader has his own theme.