Snowden now Putin's puppet bitch

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#1 Edited by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

"Does Russia intercept, store or analyze in any way the communications of millions of individuals?" Snowden asked in English via a video link during Putin's annual question-and-answer program, which was broadcast on state television. "And do you believe that simply increasing the effectiveness of intelligence or law enforcement investigations can justify placing societies, rather than their subjects, under surveillance?"

Putin responded that Russia has a special service that bugs telephone conversations and Internet communications to fight crimes, including terrorism, but only with court permission and only "for specific citizens."

"So, the mass character is something we do not have and cannot have," Putin said in Russian.

"On such a mass scale ... we do not allow ourselves to do this, and we will never allow this. We do not have the money or the means to do that," he said.

Putin, a former intelligence agent, noted that his questioner, a former National Security Agency contractor, shares that background. "So, we can speak in professional language," he said.

Source

So Putin is holding a press conference in Moscow and during a question/answer session has this treasonous piece of shit Snowden get on teleconference to ask him a question -all undoubtedly pre-planned and a direct shot at the United States. This bastard's treason is now complete, and any American still calling him a hero is a traitor as well in my book. During a time when our nation is locked in a diplomatic battle over the Ukraine crisis this bastard aided the other side. If we ever get this prick the penalty should be death, period.

Putin also fielded a question from a 6 year old asking him if he thinks Obama would save him if he were drowning. What a joke.

#2 Edited by comp_atkins (31213 posts) -

"We do not have the money or the means to do that,"

that's all it really boils down to. if they could, they would too.

#3 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17379 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

During a time when our nation is locked in a diplomatic battle over the Ukraine crisis this bastard aided the other side.

[citation needed]

#4 Posted by Korvus (2950 posts) -

@vfibsux: You always sound so angry, man =)

#5 Posted by dave123321 (33635 posts) -

Love snowden

#6 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

During a time when our nation is locked in a diplomatic battle over the Ukraine crisis this bastard aided the other side.

[citation needed]

Really man? Citations in this case are for people who are too fucking clueless to see where it came from. If you cannot see this was all setup for Putin to take a shot at the U.S. you are a fool. But I think it just serves your agenda, you know full well what happened here.

#7 Edited by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@korvus said:

@vfibsux: You always sound so angry, man =)

Most of the time I just come off this way....but in this case I am fucking fuming, I will admit it.

Saying that....I will step out now. I have said all I can say and now that I have admitted this the trolls will smell blood in the water lol.

#8 Edited by jimkabrhel (15417 posts) -

@korvus said:

@vfibsux: You always sound so angry, man =)

I'm starting to think that vifbsux and DevilMayCry were drinking the same KoolAid.

#9 Posted by Korvus (2950 posts) -

@vfibsux: We all have stuff that we feel strongly about, so I understand your frustration. but if you let stuff you can't change consume you, you end up having a pretty shitty life...

#10 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17379 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

During a time when our nation is locked in a diplomatic battle over the Ukraine crisis this bastard aided the other side.

[citation needed]

Really man? Citations in this case are for people who are too fucking clueless to see where it came from. If you cannot see this was all setup for Putin to take a shot at the U.S. you are a fool. But I think it just serves your agenda, you know full well what happened here.

So he "aided the other side" by asking Putin a question?

#11 Posted by dave123321 (33635 posts) -

Vfib is so fucking delusional

#12 Posted by dave123321 (33635 posts) -

If I call into question the United States governments actions, am I a traitor

#13 Posted by deeliman (2362 posts) -

Vfib is probably the right wing version of laihendi.

#14 Posted by dave123321 (33635 posts) -

He is a poor soul

#15 Posted by Masculus (2825 posts) -

The butthurt is strong in the topic's title. This whole Russia thing has been fun (except for Ukraine, lol).

#16 Posted by Serraph105 (27747 posts) -

I remember just a few months ago (more like weeks) when conservatives were praising Putin to the point of calling him sexy. Did the events in Crimea rub you guys the wrong way?

#17 Posted by GazaAli (22492 posts) -

Vfib I hope you will be able to appreciate the joke. I somehow thought of this after entering this topic:

#18 Posted by one_plum (6331 posts) -

@deeliman said:

Vfib is probably the right wing version of laihendi.

I didn't know the right wing spectrum can go further than Laihendi.

#19 Posted by dave123321 (33635 posts) -

I hope that the response vfib gets allows him to see how is anger at the world has consumed his ability for rational and reasoned thought

#20 Posted by Wilfred_Owen (20821 posts) -

Did the events in Crimea rub you guys the wrong way?

Blue balls man. Blue balls.....

#21 Edited by plageus900 (971 posts) -

Even if Snowden is a treasonous bastard, the NSA is a treasonous collective.

#22 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3752 posts) -

I hope we assassinate him.

#23 Edited by Sword-Demon (6945 posts) -

So Snowden deserves the death penalty because he set up Putin to say that they don't monitor their citizens without court permission?

That's what it took for you to consider his treason complete? really?

#24 Posted by sonicare (53448 posts) -

I do find that a little bit weird, that Snowden is seemingly ok with Putin. Snowden's whole issue with the NSA was that they were spying on the people. That government has too much control over the people. Now he's buddying up with Mr. KGB, I kill any dissenters, Vlad Putin. WTH is he thinking?

#25 Posted by GordanChoong (210 posts) -

Love snowden

Nice., I even suggested to many trolls on the Internet to nominate him as Troll of The Year - 2013 Edition.

#26 Posted by GordanChoong (210 posts) -

If I call into question the United States governments actions, am I a traitor

Not unless you leak out political sensitive documents to other enemy countries like North Korea and China.

#27 Posted by one_plum (6331 posts) -

@dave123321 said:

If I call into question the United States governments actions, am I a traitor

Not unless you leak out political sensitive documents to other enemy countries like North Korea and China.

#28 Posted by Master_Live (14033 posts) -

There is only 1 "either you are with us..." video worth linking to. Enemy? Ha.

#29 Posted by one_plum (6331 posts) -

Fair enough

#30 Edited by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

"We do not have the money or the means to do that,"

that's all it really boils down to. if they could, they would too.

I'm sure they do.....but don't want to admit it. After all...who will point the finger?

#31 Posted by comp_atkins (31213 posts) -

@comp_atkins said:

"We do not have the money or the means to do that,"

that's all it really boils down to. if they could, they would too.

I'm sure they do.....but don't want to admit it. After all...who will point the finger?

i'd say this guy but speaking up didn't work out too well for him last time

#32 Edited by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

@comp_atkins said:

"We do not have the money or the means to do that,"

that's all it really boils down to. if they could, they would too.

I'm sure they do.....but don't want to admit it. After all...who will point the finger?

i'd say this guy but speaking up didn't work out too well for him last time

Ouch...they play rough. Good luck Snowden....you deserve what you get.

#33 Posted by dave123321 (33635 posts) -

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/18/vladimir-putin-surveillance-us-leaders-snowden

#34 Posted by Solaryellow (456 posts) -

If Snowden is a "treasonous piece of shit" what does that say for our politicians who constantly violate the rights of the people along with ignoring the Constitution?

#35 Posted by Reaper4278 (337 posts) -

If Snowden is a "treasonous piece of shit" what does that say for our politicians who constantly violate the rights of the people along with ignoring the Constitution?

What people seem to have trouble grasping here is Snowden did not just reveal the NSA spying on YOU, he also revealed national secrets to foreign countries, some of which are adversaries. This thing he just staged with Putin was above and beyond and absolutely treasonous.

Are the American people so stupid they really cannot differentiate between this guy giving you something you wanted to know and giving our enemies information? Why do you continue to ignore this? If someone came and fed your entire family but took one kid from you would you still be thankful? This is amazing to me that you cannot see this.

#36 Edited by Reaper4278 (337 posts) -

@dave123321 said:

If I call into question the United States governments actions, am I a traitor

Read the above post, it is for you too.

What is funny too with this conference thing is Putin calling Snowden an "agent" and "spy", yep he sure is. You guys are not reading into this the way someone like me who works intelligence does. An agent is a spy run by a handler, the agent is the one who is not employed by the CIA or KGB but rather is their fetcher, they get things for the handler. This is all Snowden was, Putin was KGB and he knows the terminology, he was not using it lightly lol.

The guy was a comm dude, not intelligence. He did not even know what he was stealing except that is looked important. He gets far too much credit for what he did.

#37 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17379 posts) -

@Solaryellow said:

If Snowden is a "treasonous piece of shit" what does that say for our politicians who constantly violate the rights of the people along with ignoring the Constitution?

What people seem to have trouble grasping here is Snowden did not just reveal the NSA spying on YOU, he also revealed national secrets to foreign countries, some of which are adversaries. This thing he just staged with Putin was above and beyond and absolutely treasonous.

Are the American people so stupid they really cannot differentiate between this guy giving you something you wanted to know and giving our enemies information? Why do you continue to ignore this? If someone came and fed your entire family but took one kid from you would you still be thankful? This is amazing to me that you cannot see this.

He didn't hand any info to foreign governments, he gave it to journalists who have since then published it discriminately. Is Glenn Greenwald also a traitor? The NY Times? The Washington Post? The suggestion that one is "aiding the enemy" by distributing classified information to news agencies to publish was brought up by the prosecution in the Bradley Manning trial, and was a charge he was acquitted of.

#38 Posted by Reaper4278 (337 posts) -

@reaper4278 said:

@Solaryellow said:

If Snowden is a "treasonous piece of shit" what does that say for our politicians who constantly violate the rights of the people along with ignoring the Constitution?

What people seem to have trouble grasping here is Snowden did not just reveal the NSA spying on YOU, he also revealed national secrets to foreign countries, some of which are adversaries. This thing he just staged with Putin was above and beyond and absolutely treasonous.

Are the American people so stupid they really cannot differentiate between this guy giving you something you wanted to know and giving our enemies information? Why do you continue to ignore this? If someone came and fed your entire family but took one kid from you would you still be thankful? This is amazing to me that you cannot see this.

He didn't hand any info to foreign governments, he gave it to journalists who have since then published it discriminately. Is Glenn Greenwald also a traitor? The NY Times? The Washington Post? The suggestion that one is "aiding the enemy" by distributing classified information to news agencies to publish was brought up by the prosecution in the Bradley Manning trial, and was a charge he was acquitted of.

Sigh. Is there one day you can actually practice some intellectual integrity here Sun Tzu? You seem like a smart guy so I have a hard time thinking you don't get this point, you just choose to serve another agenda.

He still gave up information regarding our adversaries, he could have stopped at outing the NSA regarding domestic surveillance, instead he chose to reveal information about other countries as well. And anyone who thinks this question for Putin was not staged theatrics is a fool. We are in a diplomatic crisis with Russia right now and he aided them; it disgusts me Americans are still hailing this guy as a hero after this. The fact you are even trying to debate these things still is absurd to me.

#39 Edited by dave123321 (33635 posts) -

I'm trying to wrap my head around why people think the perceived snowden involved staging was a big deal

#40 Edited by Solaryellow (456 posts) -

What people seem to have trouble grasping here is Snowden did not just reveal the NSA spying on YOU, he also revealed national secrets to foreign countries, some of which are adversaries. This thing he just staged with Putin was above and beyond and absolutely treasonous.

Are the American people so stupid they really cannot differentiate between this guy giving you something you wanted to know and giving our enemies information? Why do you continue to ignore this? If someone came and fed your entire family but took one kid from you would you still be thankful? This is amazing to me that you cannot see this.

1.) Nations spying on other nations is not a virgin concept. He revealed the extent (in my opinion illegal) to which the United States will go which should be alarming for certain nations. I can only imagine the furor if we had concrete proof Australia (as an example) was tapping the cell phone of President Obama along with monitoring calls of our citizens. Our government's spying has proceeded well beyond our enemies.

2.) Your example of ones entire family needs clarification as it is quite ambiguous.

3.) I ask again: If Snowden is a "treasonous piece of shit" what does that make our politicians who ignore the Constitution and act like the moral compass of the world when reality shows something entirely different? Would you be so kind as to answer?

#41 Posted by wis3boi (31012 posts) -

Vfib is so fucking delusional

freedom boners...freedom boners everywhere. Feels like 1955

#42 Posted by Reaper4278 (337 posts) -

I'm trying to wrap my head around why people think the perceived snowden involved staging was a big deal

Really? Do you pay attention to anything going on right now? The U.S. is entering another Cold War with Russia over this Ukraine thing even as I type. You don't see the significance of the timing of this shot taken at the U.S.? He set up a shot for Putin to slam dunk one over on the U.S., it was all staged and schemed as a propaganda piece on state TV. Why do I even have to explain this?

@reaper4278 said:

What people seem to have trouble grasping here is Snowden did not just reveal the NSA spying on YOU, he also revealed national secrets to foreign countries, some of which are adversaries. This thing he just staged with Putin was above and beyond and absolutely treasonous.

Are the American people so stupid they really cannot differentiate between this guy giving you something you wanted to know and giving our enemies information? Why do you continue to ignore this? If someone came and fed your entire family but took one kid from you would you still be thankful? This is amazing to me that you cannot see this.

1.) Nations spying on other nations is not a virgin concept. He revealed the extent (in my opinion illegal) to which the United States will go which should be alarming for certain nations. I can only imagine the furor if we had concrete proof Australia (as an example) was tapping the cell phone of President Obama along with monitoring calls of our citizens. Our government's spying has proceeded well beyond our enemies.

2.) Your example of ones entire family needs clarification as it is quite ambiguous.

3.) I ask again: If Snowden is a "treasonous piece of shit" what does that make our politicians who ignore the Constitution and act like the moral compass of the world when reality shows something entirely different? Would you be so kind as to answer?

1. Take away anything involving the NSA spying on U.S. citizens and erase it, what is left makes Snowden a traitor. That is all. Perhaps you would be happier in another country if you don't like how we protect this one? Why should you care how we spy on other nations? Wtf business is it of yours in the first place? We are not out there drowning puppies, we are monitoring foreign communications that have nothing to do with you. Every American has the right to know about what our government does here in regards to your comms, what we do elsewhere is none of your business. If you don't like it go get yourself a clearance.

2. Sigh. Just because he did one good thing it does not excuse the bad he did. Maybe if you concentrated less on appearing to be intelligence with your usage of words and more on reading comprehension.....

3. There is a difference between something arguably being against the constitution and someone who provided classified information to our enemies. If you cannot see the difference here you are beyond help. Try and stay on topic. Furthermore, if you want to go this route every American who wants to take my gun away from me is also a traitor. Would you be among them?

#43 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17379 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@reaper4278 said:

@Solaryellow said:

If Snowden is a "treasonous piece of shit" what does that say for our politicians who constantly violate the rights of the people along with ignoring the Constitution?

What people seem to have trouble grasping here is Snowden did not just reveal the NSA spying on YOU, he also revealed national secrets to foreign countries, some of which are adversaries. This thing he just staged with Putin was above and beyond and absolutely treasonous.

Are the American people so stupid they really cannot differentiate between this guy giving you something you wanted to know and giving our enemies information? Why do you continue to ignore this? If someone came and fed your entire family but took one kid from you would you still be thankful? This is amazing to me that you cannot see this.

He didn't hand any info to foreign governments, he gave it to journalists who have since then published it discriminately. Is Glenn Greenwald also a traitor? The NY Times? The Washington Post? The suggestion that one is "aiding the enemy" by distributing classified information to news agencies to publish was brought up by the prosecution in the Bradley Manning trial, and was a charge he was acquitted of.

Sigh. Is there one day you can actually practice some intellectual integrity here Sun Tzu? You seem like a smart guy so I have a hard time thinking you don't get this point, you just choose to serve another agenda.

He still gave up information regarding our adversaries, he could have stopped at outing the NSA regarding domestic surveillance, instead he chose to reveal information about other countries as well. And anyone who thinks this question for Putin was not staged theatrics is a fool. We are in a diplomatic crisis with Russia right now and he aided them; it disgusts me Americans are still hailing this guy as a hero after this. The fact you are even trying to debate these things still is absurd to me.

Whose adversaries? It's one thing to talk about an adversary against me, it's something completely different when we're talking about an adversary of the US ruling elite. Snowden didn't reveal anything that caught anyone off-guard, he only ended any claims to plausible deniability by detailing the actual scope of these surveillance programs. He showed that top government officials were not only being misleading about surveillance programs but in many cases were outright lying to the American people.

Democracy can't function if the public isn't even allowed to know, let alone have an actual say, about what their government is doing allegedly on their behalf. Not only that, but with such a pervasive surveillance state, information becomes power. J. Edgar Hoover, an unelected government official, wielded an incredible amount of power for decades and became a king-maker of sorts by being able to blackmail and bribe to get his way due to the long reaching tentacles of the surveillance state of his day. Even today the leaking of classified information is used by top ranking government officials for propaganda when the information being leaked makes them look "good". It's only when the leaked info puts their actions in a bad light that anyone gets upset. For the past decade the US government has created a powerful surveillance state that can easily be taken advantage of if it were to fall into the wrong hands, if it hasn't already.

This is something that often gets glossed over - for example today you'll hear a lot of democrats say they're fine with all the surveillance and extrajudicial killings orchestrated by the Obama administration simply because they trust Obama - what happens when someone you don't trust gains a position of power in the intelligence community? They'll have at their disposal a legal framework that in some ways would make even Hoover blush. In many cases these laws and programs were made hastily and without considering their long term consequences. When does the "war on terror" end? At what time can we actually scale back these programs? From my perspective we're engaged in a perpetual war with no boundaries, where the president can do anything, anywhere for the sake of "national security", and that's something that I think deserves a national debate, which is only possible if the public is privy to the relevant facts and details.

#44 Posted by k--m--k (994 posts) -

butthurt american lol

#45 Posted by Reaper4278 (337 posts) -

@reaper4278 said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@reaper4278 said:

@Solaryellow said:

If Snowden is a "treasonous piece of shit" what does that say for our politicians who constantly violate the rights of the people along with ignoring the Constitution?

What people seem to have trouble grasping here is Snowden did not just reveal the NSA spying on YOU, he also revealed national secrets to foreign countries, some of which are adversaries. This thing he just staged with Putin was above and beyond and absolutely treasonous.

Are the American people so stupid they really cannot differentiate between this guy giving you something you wanted to know and giving our enemies information? Why do you continue to ignore this? If someone came and fed your entire family but took one kid from you would you still be thankful? This is amazing to me that you cannot see this.

He didn't hand any info to foreign governments, he gave it to journalists who have since then published it discriminately. Is Glenn Greenwald also a traitor? The NY Times? The Washington Post? The suggestion that one is "aiding the enemy" by distributing classified information to news agencies to publish was brought up by the prosecution in the Bradley Manning trial, and was a charge he was acquitted of.

Sigh. Is there one day you can actually practice some intellectual integrity here Sun Tzu? You seem like a smart guy so I have a hard time thinking you don't get this point, you just choose to serve another agenda.

He still gave up information regarding our adversaries, he could have stopped at outing the NSA regarding domestic surveillance, instead he chose to reveal information about other countries as well. And anyone who thinks this question for Putin was not staged theatrics is a fool. We are in a diplomatic crisis with Russia right now and he aided them; it disgusts me Americans are still hailing this guy as a hero after this. The fact you are even trying to debate these things still is absurd to me.

Whose adversaries? It's one thing to talk about an adversary against me, it's something completely different when we're talking about an adversary of the US ruling elite. Snowden didn't reveal anything that caught anyone off-guard, he only ended any claims to plausible deniability by detailing the actual scope of these surveillance programs. He showed that top government officials were not only being misleading about surveillance programs but in many cases were outright lying to the American people.

Democracy can't function if the public isn't even allowed to know, let alone have an actual say, about what their government is doing allegedly on their behalf. Not only that, but with such a pervasive surveillance state, information becomes power. J. Edgar Hoover, an unelected government official, wielded an incredible amount of power for decades and became a king-maker of sorts by being able to blackmail and bribe to get his way due to the long reaching tentacles of the surveillance state of his day. Even today the leaking of classified information is used by top ranking government officials for propaganda when the information being leaked makes them look "good". It's only when the leaked info puts their actions in a bad light that anyone gets upset. For the past decade the US government has created a powerful surveillance state that can easily be taken advantage of if it were to fall into the wrong hands, if it hasn't already.

This is something that often gets glossed over - for example today you'll hear a lot of democrats say they're fine with all the surveillance and extrajudicial killings orchestrated by the Obama administration simply because they trust Obama - what happens when someone you don't trust gains a position of power in the intelligence community? They'll have at their disposal a legal framework that in some ways would make even Hoover blush. In many cases these laws and programs were made hastily and without considering their long term consequences. When does the "war on terror" end? At what time can we actually scale back these programs? From my perspective we're engaged in a perpetual war with no boundaries, where the president can do anything, anywhere for the sake of "national security", and that's something that I think deserves a national debate, which is only possible if the public is privy to the relevant facts and details.

You keep talking about A when I am talking B. The public had a right to know about the domestic spying, the public had NO right to know about what we do outside of this country. You do not have the right to classified information which details how we learn about adversaries. I know Americans like to think they are special in this regard, but no you are not. If you want to know then I suggest you obtain a clearance, join the IC or military, and serve your country in this capacity. You are exactly the Snowden type though, you do not respect the fact it is none of your business. We keep certain things classified for a reason, and it is not yours or even mine to decide what should and should not be given to the public. Even giving up the NSA domestic spying programs was wrong and illegal, but at least it had some ethical reasoning behind it. There was no excuse for giving up our information on how we collect outside of the country on foreign governments and citizen. And there was no excuse for giving technical details away that foreign governments could use against us. That is as far into it as I will go, because I would be violating the law in confirming or denying anything in detail.

That is all I have to say on the matter because I see there is no point in trying to reason with any of your type on this forum.

#46 Posted by dave123321 (33635 posts) -

Still can't wrap my head around people's mentality

#47 Posted by dave123321 (33635 posts) -

Like it's such an obvious thing that Putin was being falsely and some bad remarks about the us are a dime a dozen.

I don't see why people are being sensitive

#48 Edited by Toxic-Seahorse (4097 posts) -

Yeah, but if Obama were asked the exact same question before the Snowden leaks he would have given the same answer. Why the hell would Putin admit he spies on his citizens? This proves nothing and shouldn't be a big deal at all.

#49 Posted by Treflis (11428 posts) -

I find it hard to take this topic seriously then the thread creator has a profile picture of a weapon with a american flag themed magazine.

Just saying.

#50 Edited by Solaryellow (456 posts) -

Whose adversaries? It's one thing to talk about an adversary against me, it's something completely different when we're talking about an adversary of the US ruling elite. Snowden didn't reveal anything that caught anyone off-guard, he only ended any claims to plausible deniability by detailing the actual scope of these surveillance programs. He showed that top government officials were not only being misleading about surveillance programs but in many cases were outright lying to the American people.

I've condensed your post into only the first sentence.

As you've clearly seen in this post, there are people believing American can do nothing wrong. These very same people believe our politicians are acting in our best interest when that isn't the truth. I won't say every problem facing America is the fault of our politicians (but I'm sure I could) but the footprints lead back to moronic politicians believing they know what is best for everyone. They don't respect our rights nor the Constitution. They don't respect the sovereignty of other nations. This government constantly does one thing while in all actuality, it's doing something quite different. What this Snowden character did was expose the government with its pants down. Unfortunately the government was not limiting its spying on those posing a threat. It was spying on everyone.

As American citizens we have an obligation to know what is going on concerning you and I and everyone of this nation. The politicians are well aware we wouldn't be supporting much of what it does...provided we were kept in the loop. We don't have a democracy. We don't have a republic. We have a ruling class that honestly believes it knows what's best for the citizens when its track record suggests otherwise.