Should it be illegal to resell severely damaged cars as normal used cars?

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#1 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

This really burns me up, there are used car dealerships out there that sell cars that have been completly totaled. They get "Salvage" titles and then sell these cars after they have repaired the body damage. they still have frame damage, possible engine problems, etc. I feel like the government should crack down on these dealerships doing this to people because there's no reason for it. Totaled cars should be banned from being resold and immediately destoryed. Any thoughts on this?

#2 Posted by dagreenfish (1817 posts) -
I have no problem with selling cars "as is." Check things out before you buy.
#3 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150085 posts) -

No. They aren't forcing you to purchase are they? Man you seem unhappy in all your posts....cheer the f*ck up dude. Life's an adventure......

#4 Posted by Laihendi (5800 posts) -
Why are you so hostile to the idea of people choosing what to buy with their money? Nobody is forcing people to buy these cars.
#5 Posted by Legendaryscmt (12532 posts) -

Whenever something is sold "as-is", it should be a given that the consumer should know that something could be up with whatever the item is. It shouldn't be illegal just because someone is dumb enough to buy the item without looking farther into it.

#6 Posted by CreasianDevaili (3997 posts) -
You don't have to get a used car that has a salvaged title. The only people who go there for lemons are people who can't afford a decent vehicle, want to do a derby, or overall could use the parts as a home mechanic. There are perfectly fine and well taken care of used vehicles out there for a grand by residential sellers. If you also are too inept to look the car over take someone who can.

It is up to the buyer to at least be smart enough to google what the hell a salvaged title is.
#7 Posted by Hallenbeck77 (14372 posts) -

Nope. If you decide to save a few bucks and get a car "as is" instead of saving up to get something of better quality, or don't do your research beforehand, then that's complely on you.

Caveat emptor--Let the buyer beware.

#8 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

Why are you so hostile to the idea of people choosing what to buy with their money? Nobody is forcing people to buy these cars.Laihendi

These are usually cars with a low downpayment, so the attract poorer people that might have just gotten a new job and need a vehicle. They keep you at the dealership for HOURS and then only let you know about the Salvage title after the paper work has started. If you refuse at that point not only have you wasted an entire day, but you had to get a ride to that dealership, so you have to call back whoever took you around in the first place. I just feel like there should be more protections for the buyer in this case because the dealership manipulates these cars (removing air bags, check engine lights, duct taping parts together) and when dealing with the public you should be more honest.

#9 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

Why not protect people from clear predatory practices? It's like those payday loans, they are just ripping poor people off because they are in a tough spot. How can that be considered the right thing to do and how can you stand okay with such things taking place?

#10 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -
No. Don't buy the car if you don't want one that's been wrecked. Unless I'm mistaken, every state requires your car to have a safety inspection in order to be registered. Severe frame damage would fail a car. Why shouldn't they be able to sell cars with engine problems? I've owned cars that have been totaled. Neither had frame damage or engine issues. They were both reliable cars. It's silly to disallow people to retain rights to sell their property simply because it's been damaged.
#11 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]Why are you so hostile to the idea of people choosing what to buy with their money? Nobody is forcing people to buy these cars.Yusuke420

These are usually cars with a low downpayment, so the attract poorer people that might have just gotten a new job and need a vehicle. They keep you at the dealership for HOURS and then only let you know about the Salvage title after the paper work has started. If you refuse at that point not only have you wasted an entire day, but you had to get a ride to that dealership, so you have to call back whoever took you around in the first place. I just feel like there should be more protections for the buyer in this case because the dealership manipulates these cars (removing air bags, check engine lights, duct taping parts together) and when dealing with the public you should be more honest.

"They keep you at the dealership for HOURS and then only let you know about the Salvage title after the paper work has started." That's only if the buyer is dumb enough not to ask.
#12 Posted by CreasianDevaili (3997 posts) -

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]Why are you so hostile to the idea of people choosing what to buy with their money? Nobody is forcing people to buy these cars.Yusuke420

These are usually cars with a low downpayment, so the attract poorer people that might have just gotten a new job and need a vehicle. They keep you at the dealership for HOURS and then only let you know about the Salvage title after the paper work has started. If you refuse at that point not only have you wasted an entire day, but you had to get a ride to that dealership, so you have to call back whoever took you around in the first place. I just feel like there should be more protections for the buyer in this case because the dealership manipulates these cars (removing air bags, check engine lights, duct taping parts together) and when dealing with the public you should be more honest.

A salvage title means it is road worthy, not for how long. Dealers look for people who mean business. Both the idiots and savy ones. The idiots they unload the crap to cause, like you said, you're too much of a idiot to say no. They show the good stuff to the people who aren't gonna put up with BS. How did you survive life up till now being the way that you are? =/
#13 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150085 posts) -

Why not protect people from clear predatory practices? It's like those payday loans, they are just ripping poor people off because they are in a tough spot. How can that be considered the right thing to do and how can you stand okay with such things taking place?

Yusuke420
Most people do, in fact, know that as is means they might have some problems. You can look the vehicle over....take a mechanic with you that can give you an idea of what might need done to the car....and if you don't...then I guess you learned something for next time.
#14 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

Full disclosure here, I have a car with a Salvage title in my possesion now, but it works really good for the most part (there some minor things with the driver side door but that it everything else is really nice). That being said though why is it so hard to just have people be honest from the get go? Why continue to allow people to be ripped off if you can do something about it? You guys wouldn't support a con artist so how is this any different? Simply because it's a business?

#15 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -
OP, what, exactly, do you think a salvage title means?
#16 Posted by comp_atkins (31213 posts) -
kinda reminds me of those people who thought they were buying a $250 psp on ebay for $20 and got a box with sand in it instead... at some point common sense needs to kick in.
#17 Posted by Laihendi (5800 posts) -

Why not protect people from clear predatory practices? It's like those payday loans, they are just ripping poor people off because they are in a tough spot. How can that be considered the right thing to do and how can you stand okay with such things taking place?

Yusuke420
I'm getting the impression you just want to government to ban things so that you don't have to deal with the responsibility of making decisions for yourself.
#18 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -

Full disclosure here, I have a car with a Salvage title in my possesion now, but it works really good for the most part (there some minor things with the driver side door but that it everything else is really nice). That being said though why is it so hard to just have people be honest from the get go? Why continue to allow people to be ripped off if you can do something about it? You guys wouldn't support a con artist so how is this any different? Simply because it's a business?

Yusuke420
I don't support people being ripped off, but selling someone a car with a salvage title does not equate to them being ripped off.
#19 Posted by lowkey254 (5904 posts) -

Nah, people should have things checked out before they buy. Personally when I see "sold as is" I automatically think that something's wrong and avoid that product.

#20 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -

Nah, people should have things checked out before they buy. Personally when I see "sold as is" I automatically think that something's wrong and avoid that product.

lowkey254
It doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with it. Let's say that you're selling your car, it's a decent, reliable car with no major issues. Would you, as a seller, offer a warranty to the buyer, or would you sell as is?
#21 Posted by comp_atkins (31213 posts) -

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]Why are you so hostile to the idea of people choosing what to buy with their money? Nobody is forcing people to buy these cars.Yusuke420

These are usually cars with a low downpayment, so the attract poorer people that might have just gotten a new job and need a vehicle. They keep you at the dealership for HOURS and then only let you know about the Salvage title after the paper work has started. If you refuse at that point not only have you wasted an entire day, but you had to get a ride to that dealership, so you have to call back whoever took you around in the first place. I just feel like there should be more protections for the buyer in this case because the dealership manipulates these cars (removing air bags, check engine lights, duct taping parts together) and when dealing with the public you should be more honest.

still no need to actually purchase a vehicle from them... even if they wasted your time. tell them to f off for being shady and never go back there.
#22 Posted by CreasianDevaili (3997 posts) -
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

Why not protect people from clear predatory practices? It's like those payday loans, they are just ripping poor people off because they are in a tough spot. How can that be considered the right thing to do and how can you stand okay with such things taking place?

Most people do, in fact, know that as is means they might have some problems. You can look the vehicle over....take a mechanic with you that can give you an idea of what might need done to the car....and if you don't...then I guess you learned something for next time.

Sometimes there is no hope. Been asked to go with a friend of a friend to a car lot to help them out. I found them an ugly dented car that had an excellent engine, transmission, and showed that it was well taken care of internally. They went with a purple plymouth breeze that had oil leaking about the seals along with metal shavings on the dipstick.
#23 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

kinda reminds me of those people who thought they were buying a $250 psp on ebay for $20 and got a box with sand in it instead... at some point common sense needs to kick in.comp_atkins

Those people aren't the bad people that lied though, why are you sticking up for con artists? To address other comments made, from what I understand a salvage title is issued when a car is repaired after being totaled out. I just want people to get good things for the money they pay and I don't think that's to much to ask. I do think the government has a role in consumer protections, we can't let people commit fraud and get away with it because someone is ignorant of certain aspects. You can't expect everyone to know everything or even have access to someone that does

#24 Posted by Wasdie (49561 posts) -

Or just don't buy from them. Problem solved.

The government doesn't need to replace common sense. If you're buying a car, even if you're poor, you should ask for a vehicle history report. If there is none, then don't buy it. It's really common sense.

#25 Posted by lowkey254 (5904 posts) -
[QUOTE="lowkey254"]

Nah, people should have things checked out before they buy. Personally when I see "sold as is" I automatically think that something's wrong and avoid that product.

thegerg
It doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with it. Let's say that you're selling your car, it's a decent, reliable car with no major issues. Would you, as a seller, offer a warranty to the buyer, or would you sell as is?

I would simply say, warranty is not offered. I get what you're saying but "as is" just seems like a big warning sign to me.
#26 Posted by MrPraline (21284 posts) -
I just want people to get good things for the money they payYusuke420
Then involving the government is the last thing you should want.
#27 Posted by comp_atkins (31213 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]kinda reminds me of those people who thought they were buying a $250 psp on ebay for $20 and got a box with sand in it instead... at some point common sense needs to kick in.Yusuke420

Those people aren't the bad people that lied though, why are you sticking up for con artists? To address other comments made, from what I understand a salvage title is issued when a car is repaired after being totaled out. I just want people to get good things for the money they pay and I don't think that's to much to ask. I do think the government has a role in consumer protections, we can't let people commit fraud and get away with it because someone is ignorant of certain aspects. You can't expect everyone to know everything or even have access to someone that does

i know they are not the bad people. but a person has to use a little sense now and again. i'm not sticking up for con artists.. all i'm saying is there are douche bags out in the real world who will try to take advantage of people and the planet isn't going to be bubble-wrapped to protect everyone.
#28 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
Are they selling the cars as something other than "as-is"?
#29 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150085 posts) -
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="lowkey254"]

Nah, people should have things checked out before they buy. Personally when I see "sold as is" I automatically think that something's wrong and avoid that product.

lowkey254
It doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with it. Let's say that you're selling your car, it's a decent, reliable car with no major issues. Would you, as a seller, offer a warranty to the buyer, or would you sell as is?

I would simply say, warranty is not offered. I get what you're saying but "as is" just seems like a big warning sign to me.

As is basically says you buy it....anything wrong is yours to fix.
#30 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]kinda reminds me of those people who thought they were buying a $250 psp on ebay for $20 and got a box with sand in it instead... at some point common sense needs to kick in.Yusuke420

Those people aren't the bad people that lied though, why are you sticking up for con artists? To address other comments made, from what I understand a salvage title is issued when a car is repaired after being totaled out. I just want people to get good things for the money they pay and I don't think that's to much to ask. I do think the government has a role in consumer protections, we can't let people commit fraud and get away with it because someone is ignorant of certain aspects. You can't expect everyone to know everything or even have access to someone that does

"from what I understand a salvage title is issued when a car is repaired after being totaled out." Yes, most of the time this is true (though there are some cases in which no repairs need be made to a totaled car). Selling someone a car that is safe (which is one of the requirements to have a car given a salvage title) is not ripping them off. " I do think the government has a role in consumer protections" They certainly do, issuing a salvage title is one way that they do this. I've owned (well, I still own one of them) 2 cars with salvage titles. Neither one was ever flooded or wrecked. Neither have ever had mechanical issues as a result of what caused them to be totaled. They are both roadworthy and safe. I understand that you don't want people to be ripped off, but going about that by restricting one's ability to sell a car with a salvage title really isn't a very good way to do that.
#31 Posted by MrPraline (21284 posts) -
Are they selling the cars as something other than "as-is"? Zeviander
This. I don't understand the accusations of fraud and being a conman.
#32 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

Or just don't buy from them. Problem solved.

The government doesn't need to replace common sense. If you're buying a car, even if you're poor, you should ask for a vehicle history report. If there is none, then don't buy it. It's really common sense.

Wasdie

I get that sentiment, but at the same time there can be different circumstances. If you only have a limited time frame, it's more likely that you'll just take what you can get because you can't afford to be without a vehicle and it's hard to get people to ride you around (even if you do things for them but that's another thread for another time). Sometimes people are desperate and I don't think it's right for those people to be taking advantage of just because they are in a tough spot.

#33 Posted by lowkey254 (5904 posts) -
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="lowkey254"][QUOTE="thegerg"] It doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with it. Let's say that you're selling your car, it's a decent, reliable car with no major issues. Would you, as a seller, offer a warranty to the buyer, or would you sell as is?

I would simply say, warranty is not offered. I get what you're saying but "as is" just seems like a big warning sign to me.

As is basically says you buy it....anything wrong is yours to fix.

Exactly my point. Let's say someone is trying to sell me an ipod and they say if I buy it, it's going to be "as-is". My first thought is, something is messed up or is about to mess up and I'll be screwed. Basically I only by things that have a promise (warranty) that the product will work as it was meant to without immediate failure or known issues.
#34 Posted by CreasianDevaili (3997 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]kinda reminds me of those people who thought they were buying a $250 psp on ebay for $20 and got a box with sand in it instead... at some point common sense needs to kick in.Yusuke420

Those people aren't the bad people that lied though, why are you sticking up for con artists? To address other comments made, from what I understand a salvage title is issued when a car is repaired after being totaled out. I just want people to get good things for the money they pay and I don't think that's to much to ask. I do think the government has a role in consumer protections, we can't let people commit fraud and get away with it because someone is ignorant of certain aspects. You can't expect everyone to know everything or even have access to someone that does

A salvaged title does not really mean it was totaled or flooded. Impounded cars for one can have a salvaged title. Someone street racing with a suped up car, caught, can have that expensive vehicle some out with a salvaged title.
#35 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="lowkey254"]

Nah, people should have things checked out before they buy. Personally when I see "sold as is" I automatically think that something's wrong and avoid that product.

lowkey254
It doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with it. Let's say that you're selling your car, it's a decent, reliable car with no major issues. Would you, as a seller, offer a warranty to the buyer, or would you sell as is?

I would simply say, warranty is not offered. I get what you're saying but "as is" just seems like a big warning sign to me.

It should be taken as warning that the car has no warranty, but not necessarily that there is something wrong with the car. The "as-is/warranty" sticker that you see in the window of most used cars at dealer lots is required to be there by federal law. When you don't see this sticker in the window is when you should be worried.
#36 Posted by MrPraline (21284 posts) -
and it's hard to get people to ride you around (even if you do things for them but that's another thread for another time)Yusuke420
lol
#37 Posted by guynamedbilly (12938 posts) -

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]kinda reminds me of those people who thought they were buying a $250 psp on ebay for $20 and got a box with sand in it instead... at some point common sense needs to kick in.Yusuke420

Those people aren't the bad people that lied though, why are you sticking up for con artists? To address other comments made, from what I understand a salvage title is issued when a car is repaired after being totaled out. I just want people to get good things for the money they pay and I don't think that's to much to ask. I do think the government has a role in consumer protections, we can't let people commit fraud and get away with it because someone is ignorant of certain aspects. You can't expect everyone to know everything or even have access to someone that does

A con artist is someone who misleads people into giving them something. As long as the dealership says it's as-is and doesn't try to claim it's a brand new car or anything, there is no deception so there is no con. I do think Ebay should crack down on those kinds of things because they are being sold on their service and it would be good for their business to do so. I don't think a private business should be required to tell a customer how to spend their money though.
#38 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
This. I don't understand the accusations of fraud and being a conman. MrPraline
Does Yusuke even understand the legal definition of the phrase? It means there is absolutely no warranty on the product, and comes as you see it in front of you. As soon as the dealer begins offering the product as something other than "as-is", then they must provide some sort of guarantee or warranty on it's function or parts (many used dealers offer 1-3 months coverage on powertrain for instance). "As-is" = what you see here is what you get, nothing more
#39 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -
[QUOTE="lowkey254"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="lowkey254"] I would simply say, warranty is not offered. I get what you're saying but "as is" just seems like a big warning sign to me.

As is basically says you buy it....anything wrong is yours to fix.

Exactly my point. Let's say someone is trying to sell me an ipod and they say if I buy it, it's going to be "as-is". My first thought is, something is messed up or is about to mess up and I'll be screwed. Basically I only by things that have a promise (warranty) that the product will work as it was meant to without immediate failure or known issues.

Hmm, that must be difficult. Most things I buy don't have a warranty (the last things I bought were a sweater, a leash for my dog, and some concert tickets), I can imagne it's hard to only buy things with a warranty. Quick question: If you're selling your iPod, do you offer a warranty to the buyer?
#40 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]and it's hard to get people to ride you around (even if you do things for them but that's another thread for another time)MrPraline
lol

I read that back and it sounds outragerous lol, for the record it was my sister in law who was staying with us rent free in exchange we were getting rides where we needed to go.

#41 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

Nope. Don't buy it unless you know what you're getting.

#42 Posted by lamprey263 (22875 posts) -
well, you're never going to get honesty from a car dealer, they're there to sell you no matter what, new cars are protected usually by lemon laws and warranties and such, they'll be hesitant about giving you paperwork on the history of the car then you should avoid them for that, if something is really cheap you should wonder what's wrong with it
#43 Posted by dave123321 (33662 posts) -
nope.
#44 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -

At the end of the day, simply not offering a warranty is not ripping anyone off. Everyone tends to b at least a bit nigardy now and then. He doesn't want to pay to fix an old car as it develops problems from you using it. He's simply thinking about his wallet.

#45 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

I need to edit my title because I don't have a problem with as-is, but dealerships buying these wreaked cars and then reselling them. About the state inspection, it's well known that these shady dealers have inspectors on the take that will certify anything, so it doesn't really offer the consumer any protection. It seems like it's required to be a total sleeze bag to work in the low downpayment used car industry. I'm sure everyone would buy new if they could afford it.

#46 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -

I need to edit my title because I don't have a problem with as-is, but dealerships buying these wreaked cars and then reselling them. About the state inspection, it's well known that these shady dealers have inspectors on the take that will certify anything, so it doesn't really offer the consumer any protection. It seems like it's required to be a total sleeze bag to work in the low downpayment used car industry. I'm sure everyone would buy new if they could afford it.

Yusuke420
"so it doesn't really offer the consumer any protection" If the current laws in place don't offer full protection, what makes you think that more laws will?
#47 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

I need to edit my title because I don't have a problem with as-is, but dealerships buying these wreaked cars and then reselling them. About the state inspection, it's well known that these shady dealers have inspectors on the take that will certify anything, so it doesn't really offer the consumer any protection. It seems like it's required to be a total sleeze bag to work in the low downpayment used car industry. I'm sure everyone would buy new if they could afford it.

thegerg

"so it doesn't really offer the consumer any protection" If the current laws in place don't offer full protection, what makes you think that more laws will?

By making it illegal to resell cars that have been severely damaged. Those cars wouldn't ever make it to market in the first place (at least if it's a public dealership and they want to remain in business).

#48 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
I need to edit my title because I don't have a problem with as-is, but dealerships buying these wreaked cars and then reselling them. About the state inspection, it's well known that these shady dealers have inspectors on the take that will certify anything, so it doesn't really offer the consumer any protection. It seems like it's required to be a total sleeze bag to work in the low downpayment used car industry. I'm sure everyone would buy new if they could afford it.Yusuke420
When buying a used car "as-is": 1. Ask, "can I see a vehicle history report?" If the answer is "no" DO NOT BUY 2. Ask, "can I have the vehicle inspected by a mechanic?" If the answer is "no" DO NOT BUY -- These two simple questions will save more people from their own stupidity than more dumb laws ever will.
#49 Posted by thegerg (14718 posts) -

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

I need to edit my title because I don't have a problem with as-is, but dealerships buying these wreaked cars and then reselling them. About the state inspection, it's well known that these shady dealers have inspectors on the take that will certify anything, so it doesn't really offer the consumer any protection. It seems like it's required to be a total sleeze bag to work in the low downpayment used car industry. I'm sure everyone would buy new if they could afford it.

Yusuke420

"so it doesn't really offer the consumer any protection" If the current laws in place don't offer full protection, what makes you think that more laws will?

By making it illegal to resell cars that have been severely damaged. Those cars wouldn't ever make it to market in the first place (at least if it's a public dealership and they want to remain in business).

But what about those cars that have been severely damaged, or otherwise totaled, that are perfectly safe to drive and roadworthy? What about those cars that are not roadworthy, but useful for parts or non-road use? Why take so many options away from people, especially the lower income population that can make great use of a salvage titled car?

Anyway, it's already illegal to put a title on a car that is not safe or roadworthy. Making it illegal again would simply be redundant.

#50 Posted by campzor (34932 posts) -
I have no problem with selling cars "as is." Check things out before you buy.dagreenfish
^this + ppl buy for different reasons. Maybe they are not buying it to drive.