"Gun Control" that isnt directed towards handguns will not do anything

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#1 Posted by AdamPA1006 (6417 posts) -
#2 Posted by toast_burner (21290 posts) -

Handguns definitely are the bigger concern. They are pretty much flat out banned here. 

#3 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -
Agreed (oddly enough). Other than basic restrictions on guns, states/fed/w/e shold fvck off.
#4 Posted by dave123321 (33583 posts) -
education is key
#5 Posted by jimkabrhel (15416 posts) -

education is keydave123321

Yup, and I agree with Adam too, for once. All this assault ban crap won't do anything significant except make a certain segment of the population feel better.

#6 Posted by airshocker (28734 posts) -

Gun control directed towards legal handgun owners won't really do anything either. The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

#7 Posted by IronBeaver (1986 posts) -

I am from connecticut, who just introduced this intense gun control law.

But yeah, hand guns definitely are an issue. I think background checks and centralized registries on crazies will help stop the things like Newtown (and yes, I know that his mom owned the guns and my suggestions wouldn't have changed what happened), but that they need to do soemthing about these cheap handguns that any thug can grab for some street crime.

#8 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -

I am from connecticut, who just introduced this intense gun control law.

But yeah, hand guns definitely are an issue. I think background checks and centralized registries on crazies will help stop the things like Newtown (and yes, I know that his mom owned the guns and my suggestions wouldn't have changed what happened), but that they need to do soemthing about these cheap handguns that any thug can grab for some street crime.

IronBeaver
Also from Ct, and their ideas are largely knee-jerk reactions that won't do anything. Actually, all of their ideas are knee-jerk reactions.
#9 Posted by sonicare (53448 posts) -

Yeah.  There's all the hype about assault weapons, but they really arent the main cause of gun deaths.  It's handguns by far.

#10 Posted by AdamPA1006 (6417 posts) -

Gun control directed towards legal handgun owners won't really do anything either. The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

airshocker
This is the problem. 80-90% of guns used in crimes are obtained illegally. More laws, by definition, will not change that. 10/10 criminals break laws and dont care about gun laws. America is infested with guns. If a criminal has a gun, I want one or a better one to defend myself with.
#11 Posted by gamerguru100 (10450 posts) -

I don't get why politicians are going after assault rifles when handguns are used to kill a lot more people. Maybe assault rifles became more popular among criminals, but handguns still kill more people than assault rifles, SMGs, and shotguns combined. Not to mention gun suicides outnumber gun homicides, yet no one says a thing about that. 

#12 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -

I don't get why politicians are going after assault rifles when handguns are used to kill a lot more people. Maybe assault rifles became more popular among criminals, but handguns still kill more people than assault rifles, SMGs, and shotguns combined. Not to mention gun suicides outnumber gun homicides, yet no one says a thing about that. 

gamerguru100
It's just perception.
#13 Posted by Audacitron (908 posts) -

I don't oppose 'assault weapon bans' and magazine restrictions, but clearly gun legislation needs to be primarily focused on keeping  guns of all kinds from slipping onto the black market.

 

Gun control should be about making it harder for criminals to get guns.

 

 It's never going to be a simple thing to stop the more determined criminals from getting hold of guns, but if there's the right mix of hoops and hurdles, it'll keep more guns out of the hands of average lazy criminals.  The majority.  The guys just looking to make a quick buck.   

 

If it inconveniences legal gun owners, then boo hoo.  That's just the price you pay.  If you're going to have great power, you're going to have to demonstrate some responsibility.

 

 

 

 

#14 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

The US/state governments could just legalize drugs or most illegal activities such as prostitution or gambling and regulate them to insure not only that there is a market for it but also there is a safe way to purchase such items or engage in such services. Also continue to improve and reform our education system as well as any social services that are corrupt or inefficient. In the meantime, perhaps there should be a temporary tightening on purchasing handguns (not a ban, more like a "may issue" type of law) until there is a decrease in crime.

Obviously there is always going to be a crime rate and some days we'll see the worst of the worst such as Aurora or Sandy Hook but we can make at least decrease the rate of crime by being reasonable in our goals instead of giving into our fears or whatever seems "popular."

#15 Posted by wis3boi (31007 posts) -

this subject will never get anywhere with these things in mind:

 

- the inability for many politicians and some citizens to educate themselves on weapons and their details (See: "assault weapon" and mag size limits)

- the huge massive stockpile of guns and ammo in the US already

#16 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

I don't get why politicians are going after assault rifles when handguns are used to kill a lot more people. Maybe assault rifles became more popular among criminals, but handguns still kill more people than assault rifles, SMGs, and shotguns combined. Not to mention gun suicides outnumber gun homicides, yet no one says a thing about that. 

gamerguru100

You mean assault weapons. :P

#17 Posted by AdamPA1006 (6417 posts) -

this subject will never get anywhere with these things in mind:

 

- the inability for many politicians and some citizens to educate themselves on weapons and their details (See: "assault weapon" and mag size limits)

- the huge massive stockpile of guns and ammo in the US already

wis3boi
this is true. Thats why I dont see any solution but to go repo guns.
#18 Posted by The_Lipscomb (2187 posts) -

Ya, a lot of people forget hand guns can be semi automatic, are easy to conceal, and extremly lethal in the right hands. That being said, I'm for them remaining legal to own.

#19 Posted by chrisrooR (9026 posts) -
Agreed. Where I live handguns have always been banned entirely, and there are less than a 1 murder here every year on average.
#20 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -
Guys. let's be careful here with the whole correlation-causation thing.
#21 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -
education is keydave123321
poverty is key, but they go hand and hand, but even that pales in comparison to the vague concept of "happiness" or "well being" and other such fluff. but yea, addressing the motives and decision making process is infinitely better than "addressing" inanimate objects.
#22 Posted by IronBeaver (1986 posts) -

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

this subject will never get anywhere with these things in mind:

 

- the inability for many politicians and some citizens to educate themselves on weapons and their details (See: "assault weapon" and mag size limits)

- the huge massive stockpile of guns and ammo in the US already

AdamPA1006

this is true. Thats why I dont see any solution but to go repo guns.

 

I know the problem with the assault weapons and aesthetics, but whats wrong with getting rid of big mags?

#23 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (24961 posts) -

[QUOTE="dave123321"]education is keysurrealnumber5
poverty is key, but they go hand and hand, but even that pales in comparison to the vague concept of "happiness" or "well being" and other such fluff. but yea, addressing the motives and decision making process is infinitely better than "addressing" inanimate objects.

On that note, there should be a little something done to address the process people go through to utilize an inatimate object. Some kind of license thing, y'know? I need one to catch fish and drive a big hunk o' metal around, so I think I should have to go through a licensing process to use a handheld device that shoots metal fragments at 10,000 feet per second.

#24 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="dave123321"]education is keyTHE_DRUGGIE

poverty is key, but they go hand and hand, but even that pales in comparison to the vague concept of "happiness" or "well being" and other such fluff. but yea, addressing the motives and decision making process is infinitely better than "addressing" inanimate objects.

On that note, there should be a little something done to address the process people go through to utilize an inatimate object. Some kind of license thing, y'know? I need one to catch fish and drive a big hunk o' metal around, so I think I should have to go through a licensing process to use a handheld device that shoots metal fragments at 10,000 feet per second.

i am sorry you feel you need those things in order to use those things, i do not share your emotions on the subject of my utility.
#25 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (24961 posts) -

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] poverty is key, but they go hand and hand, but even that pales in comparison to the vague concept of "happiness" or "well being" and other such fluff. but yea, addressing the motives and decision making process is infinitely better than "addressing" inanimate objects. surrealnumber5

On that note, there should be a little something done to address the process people go through to utilize an inatimate object. Some kind of license thing, y'know? I need one to catch fish and drive a big hunk o' metal around, so I think I should have to go through a licensing process to use a handheld device that shoots metal fragments at 10,000 feet per second.

i am sorry you feel you need those things in order to use those things, i do not share your emotions on the subject of my utility.

I think it would teach me how to use it better since there's a kind of test that can go along with it.

#26 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

On that note, there should be a little something done to address the process people go through to utilize an inatimate object. Some kind of license thing, y'know? I need one to catch fish and drive a big hunk o' metal around, so I think I should have to go through a licensing process to use a handheld device that shoots metal fragments at 10,000 feet per second.

THE_DRUGGIE

i am sorry you feel you need those things in order to use those things, i do not share your emotions on the subject of my utility.

I think it would teach me how to use it better since there's a kind of test that can go along with it.

i see you have never got a fishing or hunting license, there is no teaching just paper work and payment and i dont know about the DMV where you live but the MVA might spend all of 5 mins with you in the car, when i took the test many moons ago your time maxed out at 10 mins to go through a little course. is that your Litmus test for use? to me it just sounds like a payment scheme, you can argue that the payments go directly to apt related causes, and i will not argue that, but there is little to no skill or safety checks involved.
#27 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (24961 posts) -

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] i am sorry you feel you need those things in order to use those things, i do not share your emotions on the subject of my utility. surrealnumber5

I think it would teach me how to use it better since there's a kind of test that can go along with it.

i see you have never got a fishing or hunting license, there is no teaching just paper work and payment and i dont know about the DMV where you live but the MVA might spend all of 5 mins with you in the car, when i took the test many moons ago your time maxed out at 10 mins to go through a little course. is that your Litmus test for use? to me it just sounds like a payment scheme, you can argue that the payments go directly to apt related causes, and i will not argue that, but there is little to no skill or safety checks involved.

I was talking more about driving than fishing. I bought a fishing license back in '06 and didn't have to do anything other than pay the dude.

ALSO, it would be a cool idea to give a gun accuracy test and give the person with the highest score that month a vintage Single Action Army.

#28 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

I think it would teach me how to use it better since there's a kind of test that can go along with it.

THE_DRUGGIE

i see you have never got a fishing or hunting license, there is no teaching just paper work and payment and i dont know about the DMV where you live but the MVA might spend all of 5 mins with you in the car, when i took the test many moons ago your time maxed out at 10 mins to go through a little course. is that your Litmus test for use? to me it just sounds like a payment scheme, you can argue that the payments go directly to apt related causes, and i will not argue that, but there is little to no skill or safety checks involved.

I was talking more about driving than fishing. I bought a fishing license back in '06 and didn't have to do anything other than pay the dude.

ALSO, it would be a cool idea to give a gun accuracy test and give the person with the highest score that month a vintage Single Action Army.

in the 60's and prior shooting was, in many high schools, a class. it may have been a white thing..... that was phased out because of that whole phasing out of segregation, but a connection like that takes a serious tin foil hat and assumed mastermind alex jones level conspiracy with race being the motive.( i dont know what triggered the phasing out of guns classes in schools. ) that is unless the reptilian eugenics spider kings did it all in a plot to disarm the middle class so they could implement the final invasion from the planet x on 24/24/24 because that is the Illuminati number..... and on their special calendar with 36 months, the real one, it happens to be two days from now. so lock and load people, and dont forget to buy my survival food, because i am the only one you can really trust. totally surreal guys.
#29 Posted by thebest31406 (3308 posts) -
Agree 100 percent.
#30 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (24961 posts) -

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] i see you have never got a fishing or hunting license, there is no teaching just paper work and payment and i dont know about the DMV where you live but the MVA might spend all of 5 mins with you in the car, when i took the test many moons ago your time maxed out at 10 mins to go through a little course. is that your Litmus test for use? to me it just sounds like a payment scheme, you can argue that the payments go directly to apt related causes, and i will not argue that, but there is little to no skill or safety checks involved. surrealnumber5

I was talking more about driving than fishing. I bought a fishing license back in '06 and didn't have to do anything other than pay the dude.

ALSO, it would be a cool idea to give a gun accuracy test and give the person with the highest score that month a vintage Single Action Army.

in the 60's and prior shooting was, in many high schools, a class. it may have been a white thing..... that was phased out because of that whole phasing out of segregation, but a connection like that takes a serious tin foil hat and assumed mastermind alex jones level conspiracy with race being the motive.( i dont know what triggered the phasing out of guns classes in schools. ) that is unless the reptilian eugenics spider kings did it all in a plot to disarm the middle class so they could implement the final invasion from the planet x on 24/24/24 because that is the Illuminati number..... and on their special calendar with 36 months, the real one, it happens to be two days from now. so lock and load people, and dont forget to buy my survival food, because i am the only one you can really trust. totally surreal guys.

Are...you okay?

#31 Posted by The__Kraken (851 posts) -

For some reason, I can't help but think that if control of handguns is increased, then the criminals that normally use them will continue to use them, and the other people that may commit a violent crime may use other weapons, like a shotgun, a rifle, a pen, a pencil, their fists... etc. Perhaps I am completely mistaken.

#32 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

I was talking more about driving than fishing. I bought a fishing license back in '06 and didn't have to do anything other than pay the dude.

ALSO, it would be a cool idea to give a gun accuracy test and give the person with the highest score that month a vintage Single Action Army.

THE_DRUGGIE

in the 60's and prior shooting was, in many high schools, a class. it may have been a white thing..... that was phased out because of that whole phasing out of segregation, but a connection like that takes a serious tin foil hat and assumed mastermind alex jones level conspiracy with race being the motive.( i dont know what triggered the phasing out of guns classes in schools. ) that is unless the reptilian eugenics spider kings did it all in a plot to disarm the middle class so they could implement the final invasion from the planet x on 24/24/24 because that is the Illuminati number..... and on their special calendar with 36 months, the real one, it happens to be two days from now. so lock and load people, and dont forget to buy my survival food, because i am the only one you can really trust. totally surreal guys.

Are...you okay?

i am fine, just having a spot of fun. i have not passed 30, i am still within the appropriate age range to do so. :)

#33 Posted by Wasdie (49540 posts) -

Big black weapons are a lot scarier and easier to be banned because less people own them and they look more lethal. A lot of people own handguns in this country. Going after them would get you absolutely nowhere.

It's funny. A lot of the mass shootings that happen in this nation happen with little .22 caliber semi-automatic pistol with 10-12 round magazines. 

Caliber and how many rounds your gun carries doesn't mean squat really. Most people can't hit jack squat after 50 feet even with an extremely accurate rifle. When they are in a rampage accuracy goes to hell. Even US soldiers in combat have like a 1 to 10,000 bullet hit ratio. Yes, that's 10,000 bullets for every enemy kill. At the point-blank ranges that the vast majority of shootings happen, caliber is completely irrelevant. 

Doesn't even matter how many bullets you have in your gun. In the past people just carried multiple magazines and could fire off just as many rounds as if they were carrying higher capacity magazines. 3 smaller 10 round magazines can be loaded and fired nearly as quickly as a single 30 round magazine. This is something most non-gun owners don't understand. It's not hard to reload a magazine. You lose maybe a half a second of time inbetween reloads. Fire 9 rounds, pop the mag out, pop a fresh one in, keep firing. Don't even have to recock the thing. So in the end it doesn't make any sense to ban "hich capacity" magazines. They don't increase or decrease your performance. They are just yet another thing that people believe will somehow change the outcome of a shooting. 

There is no easy solution, despite what a lot of politicians and the media is trying to convey.

#34 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (24961 posts) -

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] in the 60's and prior shooting was, in many high schools, a class. it may have been a white thing..... that was phased out because of that whole phasing out of segregation, but a connection like that takes a serious tin foil hat and assumed mastermind alex jones level conspiracy with race being the motive.( i dont know what triggered the phasing out of guns classes in schools. ) that is unless the reptilian eugenics spider kings did it all in a plot to disarm the middle class so they could implement the final invasion from the planet x on 24/24/24 because that is the Illuminati number..... and on their special calendar with 36 months, the real one, it happens to be two days from now. so lock and load people, and dont forget to buy my survival food, because i am the only one you can really trust. totally surreal guys. surrealnumber5

Are...you okay?

i am fine, just having a spot of fun. i have not passed 30, i am still within the appropriate age range to do so. :)

Fun knows no age range, you silly billy.

#35 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3732 posts) -

Gun control directed towards legal handgun owners won't really do anything either. The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

airshocker

The majority of guns used to kill people are legally owned.

#36 Posted by AdamPA1006 (6417 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Gun control directed towards legal handgun owners won't really do anything either. The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

MakeMeaSammitch

The majority of guns used to kill people are legally owned.

Yes 50% of gun deaths in the US are suicide. Guns used in crimes are 80-90% illegal
#37 Posted by The_Lipscomb (2187 posts) -

I feel like the gun debate here in the U.S is going to be ongoing for decades.. and decades.. probably a century. .. lol.

#38 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3732 posts) -

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Gun control directed towards legal handgun owners won't really do anything either. The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

AdamPA1006

The majority of guns used to kill people are legally owned.

Yes 50% of gun deaths in the US are suicide. Guns used in crimes are 80-90% illegal

it's actually more like 60-70% of gun deaths are suicides.

Sounds like a pretty good reason for a blanket ban imo.

#39 Posted by The-Apostle (12141 posts) -
All regulations do is keep law-abiding citizens from stopping criminals. They have no effect other than that.
#40 Posted by surrealnumber5 (23044 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Gun control directed towards legal handgun owners won't really do anything either. The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

MakeMeaSammitch

The majority of guns used to kill people are legally owned.

derp argument, people who want to commit suicide have unlimited avenues to do so, limiting guns wont limit the end result you are basing your argument around. the whole article is based around Intentional self-harm (suicide) (*U03,X60-X84,Y87.0) 12.4 ... ... 0.7 10.5 14.0 16.0 19.6 17.5 13.7 15.7 17.6 Intentional self-harm (suicide) by discharge of firearms (X72-X74) 6.3 ... ... 0.2 4.7 6.3 7.1 9.1 9.3 9.5 11.8 12.4 from http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/deaths_2010_release.pdf
#41 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3732 posts) -

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Gun control directed towards legal handgun owners won't really do anything either. The vast majority of gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

surrealnumber5

The majority of guns used to kill people are legally owned.

derp argument, people who want to commit suicide have unlimited avenues to do so, limiting guns wont limit the end result you are basing your argument around. the whole article is based around Intentional self-harm (suicide) (*U03,X60-X84,Y87.0) 12.4 ... ... 0.7 10.5 14.0 16.0 19.6 17.5 13.7 15.7 17.6 Intentional self-harm (suicide) by discharge of firearms (X72-X74) 6.3 ... ... 0.2 4.7 6.3 7.1 9.1 9.3 9.5 11.8 12.4 from http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/deaths_2010_release.pdf

actually suicides tend to be impulse decisions and stopping a person for even a few minutes can have them change their mind.

For instance, before modern guns, the most popular method of suicide was gas stove. It was quick, painless, and everybody had one. As soon as those were made obsolete by other models, suicide rates dropped by 1/3 and never recovered. 

Why do you think there are suicide bars on bridges? Putting them there to delay a suicide by 30 seconds can be all it takes to stop a suicide. for example, when they put those bars on the golden gate bridge, suicide rates dropped in the city.

The thing with guns is it's fast, easy, and painless. It's basically just a thing with a button that insta kills. There's no delay. No chance for rational thinking. That's why one of the primary indicators for suicide is whether or not somebody owns a gun. Suicides by gun more than double all other deaths by gun in the U.S. combined. Reason enough for a ban.

#42 Posted by Murderstyle75 (4163 posts) -

[QUOTE="AdamPA1006"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

this subject will never get anywhere with these things in mind:

 

- the inability for many politicians and some citizens to educate themselves on weapons and their details (See: "assault weapon" and mag size limits)

- the huge massive stockpile of guns and ammo in the US already

IronBeaver

this is true. Thats why I dont see any solution but to go repo guns.

 

I know the problem with the assault weapons and aesthetics, but whats wrong with getting rid of big mags?

Because those big mags are what the constitution is really supposed to be protecting. The second ammendment was never intended for personal protection with hand guns.
#43 Posted by Slashless (10089 posts) -

*Mental Olympics*

MakeMeaSammitch

lol

Taking the gold here buddy.

 

#44 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3732 posts) -

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"] *Mental Olympics*

Slashless

lol

Taking the gold here buddy.

 

It's pretty straitforward.

Guess you aren't too bright.

#45 Posted by Slashless (10089 posts) -
It's pretty straitforward.

Guess you aren't too bright.

MakeMeaSammitch
platinum
#46 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3732 posts) -

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]It's pretty straitforward.

Guess you aren't too bright.

Slashless

platinum

that a yes?

seriously, even if you disagree, it's pretty strait forward logic.

#47 Posted by Slashless (10089 posts) -
that a yes?MakeMeaSammitch
It's whatever you want it to be buddy :) You're my favorite derputy.
#48 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3732 posts) -

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]that a yes?Slashless
It's whatever you want it to be buddy :) You're my favorite derputy.

it was.

#49 Posted by Slashless (10089 posts) -
seriously, even if you disagree, it's pretty strait forward logic.MakeMeaSammitch
lol no it's not. You base everything on a premise that will never happen >if we ban guns, suicides will go down (Just look at Japan!) >if we ban guns there's your problem right there. Not going to happen. Political suicide.
#50 Posted by Slashless (10089 posts) -
hm i've noticed a lot of the anti-gun crowd uses terms like "common sense" and "straightforward" and "logical". and proceed to spout none of it. kinda weird.