Pope canning some bishops

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Posted by dave123321 (33339 posts) -

Pope Francis Removes U.S. Cardinal Popular with Conservatives from Powerful Vatican Position

December 17, 2013 By Allen Clifton Leave a Comment

You can bet this is going to get a reaction from quite a few conservatives. Pope Francis has removed U.S. Cardinal Raymond L. Burke, popular with many conservatives for his outspoken stance against abortion and same-sex marriage, from a powerful position within the Vatican.

Cardinal Burke was taken off the Congregation for Bishops, which is the group most responsible for deciding who becomes a bishop in the future. He is being replaced by the far more moderate Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington. With this move, it’s a clear sign that Pope Francis wants a change in the ideological base with which the church chooses its Bishops.

This seems to be yet another step the Pope has taken to move the Catholic Church toward a more accepting platform of religious tolerance. It’s been clear from the get-go that Pope Francis had a goal to change the environment within the Vatican. An environment that had driven many away from the Catholic Church in recent years.

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/pope-francis-removes-u-s-cardinal-popular-with-conservatives-from-powerful-vatican-position/

ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Pope Francis announced changes in the influential Vatican office that evaluates and nominates candidates for bishop around the world.

Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington was appointed Monday to the Congregation for Bishops. The pope also reconfirmed Cardinal William Levada, the former archbishop of San Francisco and former head of the Vatican's orthodoxy watchdog office.

Some members of the congregation were very conspicuously not retained. Cardinal Raymond Burke, former Archbishop of St. Louis, will no longer serve in the office.

Burke is considered an outspoken critic of abortion and same-sex marriage and a favorite of conservative Catholics. He has also been publicly critical of Francis's changes in the direction of the church. Burke retains his position as the head of the Vatican high court, the Apostolic Signatura.

Burke drew attention in the U.S. in 2004 when he said he would deny Communion to Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Roman Catholic who supports abortion rights.

Copyright 2013 The Associated Press.

I wonder what JoeRatz thinks.

#2 Posted by Master_Live (13614 posts) -

Well, there is a tradeoff. Pope risk alienating those that have been with Church a long time, sometime the most fervent for a chance to appeal to a more liberal audience. Well, that's is his prerogative but what if with all those changes those more moderate don't come either way? Religion is just loosing adepts a cross the board and no amount of pandering if going to get them back. And that is that.

#3 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1743 posts) -

this major change affects nearly zero people.

#4 Edited by airshocker (28230 posts) -

this major change affects nearly zero people.

You're an idiot.

It's not meant to affect anybody in the short term. It's meant to try and make the Roman Catholic church more tolerant. The sooner they forget about gay marriage, the sooner gay Catholics won't feel so alienated.

#5 Posted by airshocker (28230 posts) -

Well, there is a tradeoff. Pope risk alienating those that have been with Church a long time, sometime the most fervent for a chance to appeal to a more liberal audience. Well, that's is his prerogative but what if with all those changes those more moderate don't come either way? Religion is just loosing adepts a cross the board and no amount of pandering if going to get them back. And that is that.

Americans are the most moderate Catholics, so I don't think he's alienating anybody.

I very much doubt he thinks this will have people flocking back to the Church. He's playing the long game.

#6 Edited by Master_Live (13614 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Master_Live said:

Well, there is a tradeoff. Pope risk alienating those that have been with Church a long time, sometime the most fervent for a chance to appeal to a more liberal audience. Well, that's is his prerogative but what if with all those changes those more moderate don't come either way? Religion is just loosing adepts a cross the board and no amount of pandering if going to get them back. And that is that.

Americans are the most moderate Catholics, so I don't think he's alienating anybody.

You really think that? Good for you.

@airshocker said:

@Master_Live said:

Well, there is a tradeoff. Pope risk alienating those that have been with Church a long time, sometime the most fervent for a chance to appeal to a more liberal audience. Well, that's is his prerogative but what if with all those changes those more moderate don't come either way? Religion is just loosing adepts a cross the board and no amount of pandering if going to get them back. And that is that.

I very much doubt he thinks this will have people flocking back to the Church. He's playing the long game.

There is no long game, religion is going down.

#7 Edited by ferrari2001 (16677 posts) -

Ahhh. I love Cardinal Burke. I've met him and he is a very awesome person, it was a privilege to hear him speak. Although, it's not uncommon for popes to remove previous appointments and put new people in their place. It has little to do with Burke's stance on theological issues as Pope Francis agrees with everything that Burke does. He's already said he's going to change Vatican leadership, suppose he had to start with someone.

#8 Edited by airshocker (28230 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Master_Live said:

Well, there is a tradeoff. Pope risk alienating those that have been with Church a long time, sometime the most fervent for a chance to appeal to a more liberal audience. Well, that's is his prerogative but what if with all those changes those more moderate don't come either way? Religion is just loosing adepts a cross the board and no amount of pandering if going to get them back. And that is that.

Americans are the most moderate Catholics, so I don't think he's alienating anybody.

You really think that? Good for you.

@airshocker said:

@Master_Live said:

Well, there is a tradeoff. Pope risk alienating those that have been with Church a long time, sometime the most fervent for a chance to appeal to a more liberal audience. Well, that's is his prerogative but what if with all those changes those more moderate don't come either way? Religion is just loosing adepts a cross the board and no amount of pandering if going to get them back. And that is that.

I very much doubt he thinks this will have people flocking back to the Church. He's playing the long game.

There is no long game, religion is going down.

What are hardcore Catholics going to do? Absolutely nothing.

Just because you don't think there is one doesn't mean there isn't. Everything points to this Pope trying to make the church more moderate. That's a long process.

#9 Posted by foxhound_fox (86864 posts) -

How horribly painful that must be. And to be sealed up in a small, dark metal tin on top of that?

#10 Posted by Stesilaus (3283 posts) -

For some reason I initially misread the title as: "Pope caning some bishops".

:|

#11 Posted by vl4d_l3nin (765 posts) -

this major change affects nearly zero people.

Not right now, but this is going to snowball into something a lot bigger.

#12 Posted by Nintendo_Man (19628 posts) -

He is going casual. It worked out for a certain game company.... for a short period of time. ;)

#13 Posted by Randolph (10344 posts) -

As a friend said to me once, "This is a Pope who knows how to Pope". So glad to finally see a Christian who at least makes an honest attempt to actually act like Jesus. If Jesus was a historical man and the bible is an even remotely accurate description of his teachings, he would be appalled by how much his teachings have been twisted and mangled by modern day "Christians", especially in the USA. But let's be honest, not one elected Republican in this country is an actual Christian.

#14 Edited by hippiesanta (9732 posts) -

Is this thread suppose to make LGBT community and Atheist happy?

#15 Posted by junglist101 (5453 posts) -

The real story here is that the position of pope still exists and people actually give a shit what he does.

#16 Edited by 4myAmuzumament (1743 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

this major change affects nearly zero people.

You're an idiot.

It's not meant to affect anybody in the short term. It's meant to try and make the Roman Catholic church more tolerant. The sooner they forget about gay marriage, the sooner gay Catholics won't feel so alienated.

Religion is pointless as a whole so my point still stands. No real problems will be solved by this decision.

Also, it's rude to call people names. I expect better from you, honestly. Next time, eliminate the insult and stick to just the reply. It'll make OT suck less.

#17 Edited by airshocker (28230 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@4myAmuzumament said:

this major change affects nearly zero people.

You're an idiot.

It's not meant to affect anybody in the short term. It's meant to try and make the Roman Catholic church more tolerant. The sooner they forget about gay marriage, the sooner gay Catholics won't feel so alienated.

Religion is pointless as a whole so my point still stands. No real problems will be solved by this decision.

Also, it's rude to call people names. I expect better from you, honestly. Next time, eliminate the insult and stick to just the reply. It'll make OT suck less.

Until you're the end all, be all authority, no, your point doesn't stand.

Waaaaaah, cry more about it. If you say something stupid, I'm going to tell you so.

#18 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

Now if only he'd excommunicate those priests who love children...

#19 Edited by 4myAmuzumament (1743 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@4myAmuzumament said:

@airshocker said:

@4myAmuzumament said:

this major change affects nearly zero people.

You're an idiot.

It's not meant to affect anybody in the short term. It's meant to try and make the Roman Catholic church more tolerant. The sooner they forget about gay marriage, the sooner gay Catholics won't feel so alienated.

Religion is pointless as a whole so my point still stands. No real problems will be solved by this decision.

Also, it's rude to call people names. I expect better from you, honestly. Next time, eliminate the insult and stick to just the reply. It'll make OT suck less.

Until you're the end all, be all authority, no, your point doesn't stand.

Waaaaaah, cry more about it. If you say something stupid, I'm going to tell you so.

What real problems have been solved by this decision? None. You're on the losing end of an uphill battle here.

Surely you can see that this helps absolutely zero people.

Also, it looks like you have a problem with respect and civil discussion.

#20 Posted by brucewayne69 (2859 posts) -

Dave you are honorable

#21 Posted by brucewayne69 (2859 posts) -

Has anyone else been diagnosed with stage 4 brain cancer from this website's re-design?

#22 Posted by Serraph105 (27571 posts) -

@Stesilaus:

Same here, I was l thinking Francis was going all badass in a cruel and unusual punishment sort of way.

Anyways making a group of people more moderate overall is a decent way to bring more people into and back into the fold.

#23 Edited by supa_badman (16618 posts) -

so long as this can lead into removing pedophile priests and bishops, i'm not totally sure what this does

cool that the pope is moving towards a more accepting church, but frankly, i don't really care for Burke; his removal seems totally inconsequential

#24 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1743 posts) -

@supa_badman: exactly. if the pope really wanted to do something, he'd bring up their names and order manhunts for the scum in their religion.

#25 Posted by playmynutz (5921 posts) -

Pope is flexin' that's gangster, good for Catholics.

#26 Posted by Master_Live (13614 posts) -

Since he is so cool and hip, how about he says he would wish there would be a woman Pope before 2050.

#27 Posted by Gargus (2147 posts) -

The real story here is that the position of pope still exists and people actually give a shit what he does.

True.

Its a shame we live in a world that is still ruled by something as purely false and fictitious as religion. Id have hoped by the year 2013 we would live in an age of science, fact and reality.

#28 Posted by plageus900 (922 posts) -

Why is a religious denomination, with their own city-state and such influence over the world, allowed to exist?

That's what I want to know.

#29 Edited by LightR (17414 posts) -

@Master_Live said:

Well, there is a tradeoff. Pope risk alienating those that have been with Church a long time, sometime the most fervent for a chance to appeal to a more liberal audience. Well, that's is his prerogative but what if with all those changes those more moderate don't come either way? Religion is just loosing adepts a cross the board and no amount of pandering if going to get them back. And that is that.

And? Nothing is lost. It won't stop those Christians from being Christians. There's nothing they can do about it. Now if they want to preach they can start their own religion and do it to like minded people. I'm glad their being silenced, because those people aren't actually with the Church as far as I a concerned.

#30 Posted by wis3boi (30882 posts) -

Until this actual institution changes its immoral stances on social issues, among other things, this is meaningless

#31 Posted by Master_Live (13614 posts) -

@LightR said:

@Master_Live said:

Well, there is a tradeoff. Pope risk alienating those that have been with Church a long time, sometime the most fervent for a chance to appeal to a more liberal audience. Well, that's is his prerogative but what if with all those changes those more moderate don't come either way? Religion is just loosing adepts a cross the board and no amount of pandering if going to get them back. And that is that.

And? Nothing is lost. It won't stop those Christians from being Christians. There's nothing they can do about it. Now if they want to preach they can start their own religion and do it to like minded people. I'm glad their being silenced, because those people aren't actually with the Church as far as I a concerned.

What the hell are you talking about, the most fervent are usually those that give more money to the Church, those who attend religiously (mind the pun), those who give more of their time to the Church. Yes, they would continue to be Christians but not with the Catholic Church, so how is that helping the Catholic Church? And I laugh because I don't give a flying **** about the Catholic Church or any church for that matter but you really think that "liberalizing" the Church on the margins will make liberals go to the Church? If I had to bet they won't get one or the other.

And is anyone here, in GS forums, sincerely willing to say that after the Pope comments had they already or will they in the future start going to church, a Catholic one mind you, every Sunday? I'm many things but I'm not a hypocrite. The church has nothing to offer me, did this "change in tone" did it for you? If it did, good you.