Piracy - your views?

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#101 Posted by xscrapzx (6447 posts) -
[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]I think really at the end of the day his point is that a lot of what you are saying is true, but you are acting like the entertainment industry is about to go under due to piracy. Which this is not the case. Secondly what I think he is also trying to point is the only way that you prevent piracy all together is to eliminate the things that allow a legitimate purchaser to archive, backup, or essentially prevent them from doing what they want with their own property. Its a very sticky topic and it is not black and white as you claim. There is a lot of grey area involved. As bad as piracy is, what is the difference between me downloading a game or a friend allowing me to play his at my house? What is the difference between downloading a movie compared to borrow my friends to watch at my own house? This is the issue with digital entertainment. At the end of the day it is the cost of doing business in my opinion.MrGeezer
If that's the case, then that's his fault for inferring things that were never implied. I never stated or even merely implied that the entertainment industry is about to go under due to piracy, I'm saying that pirates suck ass. Also, restricting what legitimate buyers can do with their own property for the most part DOESN'T stop piracy at all. Nearly every restrictive anti-piracy measure used has been broken by pirates. In the end, those restrictive measures mostly end up inconveniencing the people who AREN'T pirates. So f*** pirates. If they weren't "stealing" content, then these reactionary anti-piracy measures wouldn't be so prevalent and legitimate buyers wouldn't be so constantly getting inconvenienced by them. And I've already explained the difference between piracy and borrowing. With borrowing, ever copy in use was already paid for, whereas piracy involves COPYING the product and the subsequent use of a product which was never purchased.

I could be wrong with me assuming what he thought you were implying as I read through only some of the quoted debate, but even if you want to make the statement that said copy was never purchased, it was at some point, so the difference is original owner gave the copy away and a copy was made and distributed. Instead of it being a couple of people who could be friends or family in the example that I created it is thousands of people. I could you give you that much in that the size of the borrowing increased, but its still the same concept. Again if someone has a trial of said product, that is the cost of doing business. I mean its clear as day.
#102 Posted by C_Glass (259 posts) -

Guys come on, most of us are gamers, we know who the pirates are, they are peniless teenagers/young adults without money, there is no great moral arguement that they are ruining blah blah blah industry, these guys are starting out in life and have ZERO cash. We also know that these same people also tend to have steam accounts, and these same people managed to get enough funds tobuy a very selective handful of games, beyond these handful of games they are strapped of cash as we all were early on in life, they wish they could get that game on steam for the achievments, convenience, and to add to their collection but they simply don't have the money. 

They are commiting no greater outrage than a horny teenager is when he acknowledges that he's over the age of 18 on some porn website. Seriously, let them have their fun for awhile, Most of these guys are also slightly on the geeky side which means they aren't getting laid, so can they atleast enjoy a flippin' game on the lonely weekend? Honestly, they are really quite harmless.

I feel bad for them because I was there once. You only live once and abit less boredom, and abit more fun here can go a long way in life, and they already have to deal with a shit-ton of angst, and rough job market, then add not etting laid and you get some school massacre...not joking, those serial killers always come from a shy/geeky background. 

I mean I just don't picture them and burly white-men with suits, sitting on a sack of cash.  Life already sucks for them, so abit less boredom is nice.

#103 Posted by MrGeezer (57206 posts) -

And your view on archiving is incredibly short-sighting. Archiving isn't about me in particular - I'm only on this planet for a handful of decades. Archiving in its greatest sense is about preserving information for the indefinite future, not a single person's finite future, and file sharing allows for that at an unbelievable scale. 

-Sun_Tzu-
Because your question is irrelevant to my argument. I don't know what the punishment SHOULD be. I don't know by what metric one would determine the appropriate punishment, and what the appropriate punishment is is irrelevant to my position that the behavior in question is wrong. This doesn't just apply to piracy, it applies to ANYTHING. I can state that food service workers spitting in their customers' food is wrong and should be illegal, without giving any comment on what the appropriate punishment should be. I can state that speeding should be illegal without having to give any comment on what the appropriate punishment should be. Also, you can pass your "archived" material along without having to bypass copyright laws. You can archive your entire Star Wars collection and then hand it down to your kid after you die. Anything that you want to "preserve into the indefinite future", you can pass down in your will to ONE owner. Preserving information DOESN'T require taking a single copy and making that file downloadable for thousands of people who never purchased it. Any of these people providing illegal content for download just as easily could have archived it for themselves and then not distributed it until it has become public domain. The "archiving" defense does not work as a justification for piracy.
#104 Posted by AncientDozer (8152 posts) -

My thoughts are simply this. Piracy is illegal, but at the end of the day its the cost of doing business.

xscrapzx
Very reasonable and logical. That is the truth. Motive isn't that important to the reality. People are going to steal just as somewhere, out there, someone is going to kill/murder someone else. It's easy for us to sit here and say "you shouldn't do it" or "people should know better", but that doesn't mean people aren't going to do it. Circumstance will vary, motive will vary, but the one common denominator across the board is that each person is responsible for themselves.
#105 Posted by MrGeezer (57206 posts) -
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] To repeat and expand on something I already pointed out - piracy isn't going to go away with you b!tching and moaning about it. Widespread piracy exists as an attempt to imperfectly fix some fundamental problem with a market. If you want to reduce piracy then address those problems its trying to fix, don't go after the symptom. The music industry has shown that if you adjust to the way your consumers want to consume the media you're trying to sell them that piracy goes down significantly.

When did I say that piracy was EVER going away? Hell, the music industry has largely shifted away from the idea of the "album", has given more opportunities for people to listen before they buy, and charges a dollar a pop for individual songs, and people still pirate the hell out of music. Sure piracy has gone down, but it's still rampant. The only way piracy is ever going away is if the creators and publishers and copyright holders voluntarily give away all content for free.
#106 Posted by MrGeezer (57206 posts) -
[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I could be wrong with me assuming what he thought you were implying as I read through only some of the quoted debate, but even if you want to make the statement that said copy was never purchased, it was at some point, so the difference is original owner gave the copy away and a copy was made and distributed. Instead of it being a couple of people who could be friends or family in the example that I created it is thousands of people. I could you give you that much in that the size of the borrowing increased, but its still the same concept. Again if someone has a trial of said product, that is the cost of doing business. I mean its clear as day.

No, it's not the same concept. Giving away something that you bought is NOT the same as buying something, copying it, and then giving away the copy.
#107 Posted by Capitan_Kid (6641 posts) -
Pirates are filthy scumbags that need to be eliminated.
#108 Posted by AncientDozer (8152 posts) -
[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="xscrapzx"] I could be wrong with me assuming what he thought you were implying as I read through only some of the quoted debate, but even if you want to make the statement that said copy was never purchased, it was at some point, so the difference is original owner gave the copy away and a copy was made and distributed. Instead of it being a couple of people who could be friends or family in the example that I created it is thousands of people. I could you give you that much in that the size of the borrowing increased, but its still the same concept. Again if someone has a trial of said product, that is the cost of doing business. I mean its clear as day.

No, it's not the same concept. Giving away something that you bought is NOT the same as buying something, copying it, and then giving away the copy.

Technically, you are correct. However, to the companies/publishers/developers. . it's the same basic thing. In their mind - people who aren't buying the game and thus not giving them money. I mean, really, they tell us we're not buying but licensing these games and it's not ours to give away or do anything with but play on our computer or our system. Once upon a time, in fact, companies wanted us to buy 1 VHS per TV/player. If we were to buy a casette for our house, we were supposed to buy one for our car. That's what they wanted. Obviously they didn't win that but they still point out every chance they get that they own it and you aren't supposed to do anything with your purchase except you and only you being able to use it.
#109 Posted by tjricardo089 (7429 posts) -

It's not OK, but if games/movies were cheaper maybe people had no need for piracy...

#110 Posted by AncientDozer (8152 posts) -
Nothing is cheaper than free and as long as people can get things for free, some people will steer towards it even if it's illegal. Trying to beat piracy or stamp it out won't work, though, because it has been with us forever in some form or another. All you can really do is try and mitigate whatever 'damage' piracy does.
#111 Posted by KnightSkull (1481 posts) -

Why do I get the urge to start talking about copyright laws after reading through this topic? :lol:

I wont though because I know pirates don't care about the copyright law and nothing I say will change that :P

#112 Posted by MannyDelgado (1187 posts) -
Depends critically on whether it's a good idea to 'encourage them' or not - for example, if I really wanted to play the new SimCity (for some bizarre reason) I would pirate it, because I don't want to incentivise the sort of bullsh*t that comes with it
#113 Posted by megam (457 posts) -
I keep seeing people say developers/publishers need to put out more demos, and people would pirate less. Or a significant amount of people only pirate to try something before buying? These opinions just don't jive with actually consumer behavior. Why? Sales data has shown that demos actually decrease sales. Penny Arcade did a bit on it, and you can find it here .
#114 Posted by tjricardo089 (7429 posts) -

It's not OK, but if games/movies were cheaper maybe people had no need for piracy...

#115 Posted by AncientDozer (8152 posts) -
I keep seeing people say developers/publishers need to put out more demos, and people would pirate less. Or a significant amount of people only pirate to try something before buying? These opinions just don't jive with actually consumer behavior. Why? Sales data has shown that demos actually decrease sales. Penny Arcade did a bit on it, and you can find it here .megam
That's because people realize what crappy games they are and decide not to buy them. How is this consumer fault? If anything, it shows just how inhuman and cruel developers/publishers are. "We know there's a chance our game is bad and we don't want people to know it until it's too late"? F U, developers or publishers. And there in lies the problem and why people argue for piracy or in defense of piracy. Or pirate.
#116 Posted by MrGeezer (57206 posts) -
[QUOTE="AncientDozer"] That's because people realize what crappy games they are and decide not to buy them. How is this consumer fault? If anything, it shows just how inhuman and cruel developers/publishers are. "We know there's a chance our game is bad and we don't want people to know it until it's too late"? F U, developers or publishers. And there in lies the problem and why people argue for piracy or in defense of piracy. Or pirate.

If they REALLY cared, then they would refuse to buy the product AND they wouldn't pirate it either. Then the developers and publishers would be forced to simply put out better games. Piracy is counterproductive. If you see that your game has been pirated a $***load of times and sales are low, why would you think that the problem is with the game? From your perspective, the fact that it's being pirated so much makes it look like people want to have it but simply don't want to pay for it. Instead of fixing the game, you just introduce more intrusive anti-piracy measures. Again, people need to think about what message their behavior sends. Not buying and not pirating a game says "I don't want this game". Pirating a game because you think it's not worth a purchase doesn't send the message that there's anything wrong with the game: the fact that people are pirating it sends the message that people WANT it.
#117 Posted by Zuzuvela (1993 posts) -
Its illegal and stealing but Im still gonna do it until I genuinely think that someone can stop me
#118 Posted by JohnF111 (14125 posts) -
Only idiots think they have the right to pirate and think it's fine.
#119 Posted by Nibroc420 (13571 posts) -
[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="AncientDozer"] That's because people realize what crappy games they are and decide not to buy them. How is this consumer fault? If anything, it shows just how inhuman and cruel developers/publishers are. "We know there's a chance our game is bad and we don't want people to know it until it's too late"? F U, developers or publishers. And there in lies the problem and why people argue for piracy or in defense of piracy. Or pirate.

If they REALLY cared, then they would refuse to buy the product AND they wouldn't pirate it either. Then the developers and publishers would be forced to simply put out better games. Piracy is counterproductive. If you see that your game has been pirated a $***load of times and sales are low, why would you think that the problem is with the game? From your perspective, the fact that it's being pirated so much makes it look like people want to have it but simply don't want to pay for it. Instead of fixing the game, you just introduce more intrusive anti-piracy measures. Again, people need to think about what message their behavior sends. Not buying and not pirating a game says "I don't want this game". Pirating a game because you think it's not worth a purchase doesn't send the message that there's anything wrong with the game: the fact that people are pirating it sends the message that people WANT it.

As more and more ****ty mainstream cut/paste Shooters/RPGs etc are entering the media world. People are wondering "Hey, is this game any good", yet oddly enough, there's never a Demo; Sure there's flashy CGI trailers and reviewers who're paid to rate games 90+/100, but those tell gamers nothing. If a game is unoriginal and bland, with zero compelling story, no-one is going to want to play it. Yet said games often get decent enough score to make people want to try them. But again, with no demo, they're forced to cough up $50-60 to try a game. If they dont like it? : Developers dont give a ****, their goal was to sell the game, they sold it. If they do like it?: Great, supporting a developer who makes good games. But wait, if that were the only option, creators of both **** games, and quality games would be making the same money. They just have to make the trailers and packaging flashy enough to make it seem quality, and they'll still be making sales. The article is saying Pirates aren't just stealing games, they're stealing games and then buying the games THEY WANT and ENJOY. Giving a terrible developer your money isn't he best way to improve the gaming industry, nor does it allow you to vote with your wallet.
#120 Posted by dkdk999 (6747 posts) -
I think a distinction should be made here too, some people pirate and buy most of the games they enjoy atleast to a certain, other people just play games for months without paying. That I think is somewhat selfish, certainly it's not "evil" or should be illegal, but it's not the most generous thing to do.
#121 Posted by MrGeezer (57206 posts) -
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] As more and more ****ty mainstream cut/paste Shooters/RPGs etc are entering the media world. People are wondering "Hey, is this game any good", yet oddly enough, there's never a Demo; Sure there's flashy CGI trailers and reviewers who're paid to rate games 90+/100, but those tell gamers nothing. If a game is unoriginal and bland, with zero compelling story, no-one is going to want to play it. Yet said games often get decent enough score to make people want to try them. But again, with no demo, they're forced to cough up $50-60 to try a game. If they dont like it? : Developers dont give a ****, their goal was to sell the game, they sold it. If they do like it?: Great, supporting a developer who makes good games. But wait, if that were the only option, creators of both **** games, and quality games would be making the same money. They just have to make the trailers and packaging flashy enough to make it seem quality, and they'll still be making sales. The article is saying Pirates aren't just stealing games, they're stealing games and then buying the games THEY WANT and ENJOY. Giving a terrible developer your money isn't he best way to improve the gaming industry, nor does it allow you to vote with your wallet.

Who said anything about giving terrible developers money? The point is that the best way to improve the industry is to avoid buying S**tty games and to avoid playing them entirely by not pirating either. People fight intrusive anti-piracy measures by pirating the game, when those measures are only there because of piracy in the first place. It's ass backwards. As soon as the numbers come in and the publisher sees that the game was pirated a million times in two months, that just validates the s**tty anti-piracy measures and sends the message that they didn't go far enough with anti-piracy measures. Refusing to buy a crappy game loses its impact when you just pirate it instead. That doesn't tell developers and publishers that the game sucks, the fact that so many people pirated it tells them that it's a good game and people want it.
#122 Posted by Nibroc420 (13571 posts) -

The point is that the best way to improve the industry is to avoid buying S**tty games and to avoid playing them entirely by not pirating either.MrGeezer

How is a person to know the quality of a game if they do not
  a.) Buy the game
  b.) Play the game at least once

Demos are not very common these days, and unless you're willing to risk $50-60 on a new title, you're not going to get any new games.
Trailers are most often just CGI, with little to no gameplay.

 

Many people pirate to avoid purchasing the games they'd never purchase or pirate if the developers would allow them to try the game out.
Sadly because publishers and developers decide not to release demos for crappy games, some players often dont know it's crappy until it's too late.

#123 Posted by KnightSkull (1481 posts) -

I think a distinction should be made here too, some people pirate and buy most of the games they enjoy atleast to a certain, other people just play games for months without paying. That I think is somewhat selfish, certainly it's not "evil" or should be illegal, but it's not the most generous thing to do.dkdk999

I don't think I understand this bit. Are you saying stealing SHOULD NOT be illegal?

No, you can't mean that can you? I must be reading it wrong.

#124 Posted by megam (457 posts) -
[QUOTE="megam"]I keep seeing people say developers/publishers need to put out more demos, and people would pirate less. Or a significant amount of people only pirate to try something before buying? These opinions just don't jive with actually consumer behavior. Why? Sales data has shown that demos actually decrease sales. Penny Arcade did a bit on it, and you can find it here .AncientDozer
That's because people realize what crappy games they are and decide not to buy them. How is this consumer fault? If anything, it shows just how inhuman and cruel developers/publishers are. "We know there's a chance our game is bad and we don't want people to know it until it's too late"? F U, developers or publishers. And there in lies the problem and why people argue for piracy or in defense of piracy. Or pirate.

Unless the demo is awesome, all it can do is hurt sales. Consumers have the attention spans of goldfish. They'll download a demo, play through it, and decide they've had enough of that particular game. In essence, the time and money spent producing the demo (in a pro-consumer manner) is rewarded with a kick in the teeth. So, why make a demo? To be pro-consumer? To what end? Because the business sure as hell isn't being rewarded for their pro-consumer behavior in the market. With this said, I'd certainly be interested in seeing piracy rates of games with demos vs. those without demos to see if the "I only pirate to try the game" argument holds up under statistical analysis. My experience with pirates doesn't give me much faith. They weren't interested in evaluating the content for purchase; they just wanted free stuff. Alas, the plural of anecdote isn't data.
#125 Posted by megam (457 posts) -

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]The point is that the best way to improve the industry is to avoid buying S**tty games and to avoid playing them entirely by not pirating either.Nibroc420

How is a person to know the quality of a game if they do not
  a.) Buy the game
  b.) Play the game at least once

Demos are not very common these days, and unless you're willing to risk $50-60 on a new title, you're not going to get any new games.
Trailers are most often just CGI, with little to no gameplay.

 

Many people pirate to avoid purchasing the games they'd never purchase or pirate if the developers would allow them to try the game out.
Sadly because publishers and developers decide not to release demos for crappy games, some players often dont know it's crappy until it's too late.

Reviews? Rentals? Gameplay commentary on Youtube? There are plenty of options available to determine the quality of a game beforehand.
#126 Posted by dkdk999 (6747 posts) -

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]I think a distinction should be made here too, some people pirate and buy most of the games they enjoy atleast to a certain, other people just play games for months without paying. That I think is somewhat selfish, certainly it's not "evil" or should be illegal, but it's not the most generous thing to do.KnightSkull

I don't think I understand this bit. Are you saying stealing SHOULD NOT be illegal?

No, you can't mean that can you? I must be reading it wrong.

It's not stealing, it's transferring bytes of information.
#127 Posted by Nibroc420 (13571 posts) -

Reviews? megam

It's a known fact reviewers get paid to review some games higher, and others lower.

Rentals?megam

Not for PC gaming

Gameplay commentary on Youtube? megam
Usually aren't out until weeks/months after the release of the game.

 

Developers are intentionally not releasing demos for those games which they'd feel the demo would give the player an accurate reading of the game.Can you imagine if Gears of War released a demo before release?
It would be 30 minutes of the same grayscale level, popping in and out of cover as you gun down the waves of enemies and move to the next room.
Players would know in essense what the game was, and be able to make an informed opinion about it. With no demo you're forced to spend $50-60 on a game only to find out the game is just a repetitive shooter worthy of the bargin bin.

#128 Posted by k2theswiss (16599 posts) -
I keep seeing people say developers/publishers need to put out more demos, and people would pirate less. Or a significant amount of people only pirate to try something before buying? These opinions just don't jive with actually consumer behavior. Why? Sales data has shown that demos actually decrease sales. Penny Arcade did a bit on it, and you can find it here .megam
IF you make flashy cool trailers, but make a bad game and a demo clearly show that. Why in hell would you buy it? They should do away with demos let people download the real game or enough to let them play for 1 hour and get a real feel for it.
#129 Posted by KnightSkull (1481 posts) -

[QUOTE="KnightSkull"]

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]I think a distinction should be made here too, some people pirate and buy most of the games they enjoy atleast to a certain, other people just play games for months without paying. That I think is somewhat selfish, certainly it's not "evil" or should be illegal, but it's not the most generous thing to do.dkdk999

I don't think I understand this bit. Are you saying stealing SHOULD NOT be illegal?

No, you can't mean that can you? I must be reading it wrong.

It's not stealing, it's transferring bytes of information.

:roll:

#130 Posted by Nibroc420 (13571 posts) -

I'd certainly be interested in seeing piracy rates of games with demos vs. those without demos to see if the "I only pirate to try the game" argument holds up under statistical analysis. My experience with pirates doesn't give me much faith. They weren't interested in evaluating the content for purchase; they just wanted free stuff. Alas, the plural of anecdote isn't data.megam

Thats what the article was talking about.
Pirates have been found to purchase more media than the average person, however they only buy the things they view as quality and want to support.

#131 Posted by Nibroc420 (13571 posts) -

[QUOTE="dkdk999"][QUOTE="KnightSkull"]

I don't think I understand this bit. Are you saying stealing SHOULD NOT be illegal?

No, you can't mean that can you? I must be reading it wrong.

KnightSkull

It's not stealing, it's transferring bytes of information.

:roll:

Next you'll tell me 3d printing is stealing. Someone, somewhere created the table, who are you to simply "copy it for your own personal use", it's their intellectual property!
#132 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
It's theft. That said however if you're losing significant sales to piracy you're doing something wrong. There's always going to be those people who don't pay for it but for the most part if they have that mentality they aren't going to buy it no matter what you do. Things like DRM just encourage piracy in the end as the pirates are now giving a better product than you are and you're not really preventing them from doing anything since they'll just remove the DRM within a week of release anyway. Sure it's theft but you don't blame the beggar stealing a loaf of bread for your store folding.
#133 Posted by Slashless (9515 posts) -
Piracy isn't harming the game industry to the extent people say it is. While I'm not gonna defend it (it's theft, nothing else to it) most pirates either don't have the money, weren't going to buy it in the first place, or want to test the game out since there's no demos and reviews aren't reliable. There was nothing to gain in the first place.
#134 Posted by iskeethunters (925 posts) -
That's the stupidest article I've ever read.
#135 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4730 posts) -

Used game sales are worse for the industry, luckily Sony and MS are fixing this next gen.

tenaka2

Save it for System Wars.

God knows how sick I am of hearing it there, let alone here.

#136 Posted by KC_Hokie (16099 posts) -
Piracy is theft. Not good for anyone in the industry involved.
#137 Posted by megam (457 posts) -
Developers are intentionally not releasing demos for those games which they'd feel the demo would give the player an accurate reading of the game.Can you imagine if Gears of War released a demo before release?
It would be 30 minutes of the same grayscale level, popping in and out of cover as you gun down the waves of enemies and move to the next room.
Players would know in essense what the game was, and be able to make an informed opinion about it. With no demo you're forced to spend $50-60 on a game only to find out the game is just a repetitive shooter worthy of the bargin bin.Nibroc420
For the usual gaming press, I won't deny that there have been reputation-ruining scandals.I recommend finding a source you trust and using them if you're on the fence. As for Youtube commentaries, there are usually several videos uploaded for all major releases within a week, and in many cases, on the release date. With so many resources available, no one is forcing you to buy a game before you can form an educated opinion about the quality of the game. If someone pre-orders a game that turns out to be an abomination, that's their problem for not showing a little bit of patience.

Demos are just a terrible form of advertisement. At best, they don't impact sales. At worst, they tank them. Somewhere in the middle, it lowers sales by satiating the desire a gamer had to play the game. The consumer is then off to enjoy something else. Sure, deciding to not release a demo can be construed as anti-consumer, but why give part of the product away if it's just going to hurt the business in the end?

[QUOTE="megam"]I'd certainly be interested in seeing piracy rates of games with demos vs. those without demos to see if the "I only pirate to try the game" argument holds up under statistical analysis. My experience with pirates doesn't give me much faith. They weren't interested in evaluating the content for purchase; they just wanted free stuff. Alas, the plural of anecdote isn't data.Nibroc420

Thats what the article was talking about.
Pirates have been found to purchase more media than the average person, however they only buy the things they view as quality and want to support.

As you said, the article only indicates pirates purchase more content than the average consumer. It does nothing to prove/disprove they're trying before buying. Also, the article makes no mention of the impact of the availability of game demos on piracy rates.
#138 Posted by AncientDozer (8152 posts) -
[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="AncientDozer"] That's because people realize what crappy games they are and decide not to buy them. How is this consumer fault? If anything, it shows just how inhuman and cruel developers/publishers are. "We know there's a chance our game is bad and we don't want people to know it until it's too late"? F U, developers or publishers. And there in lies the problem and why people argue for piracy or in defense of piracy. Or pirate.

If they REALLY cared, then they would refuse to buy the product AND they wouldn't pirate it either. Then the developers and publishers would be forced to simply put out better games. Piracy is counterproductive. If you see that your game has been pirated a $***load of times and sales are low, why would you think that the problem is with the game? From your perspective, the fact that it's being pirated so much makes it look like people want to have it but simply don't want to pay for it. Instead of fixing the game, you just introduce more intrusive anti-piracy measures. Again, people need to think about what message their behavior sends. Not buying and not pirating a game says "I don't want this game". Pirating a game because you think it's not worth a purchase doesn't send the message that there's anything wrong with the game: the fact that people are pirating it sends the message that people WANT it.

That's ridiculous. There's no reason that piracy wouldn't send the same or similar message as not buying it. If anything, it should drive the point home that people want to try the game but not for the prices or practices that the company, whoever it is, is using. Maybe developers need to think about what message their walking away with. Because it seems like some of them are lunatics as of late.
#139 Posted by cain006 (8625 posts) -

Piracy is bad no matter what. Only way I can think it's not absolutely awful is if it's pretty much impossible to get that stuff in whatever country you're in.

#140 Posted by Ernesto_basic (2123 posts) -

I'm absolutely opposed to theft. I have an appreciation for the time, dedication and creative process that goes into one's work, so I am against diminishing its value. When the incentive (money is a necessity for us all) is diminished, so is desire to trod through the rigors of the creative process, which in turn leads to a general degradation of quality of ideas across the board.

One way to analogize this would be to draw your attention to the primary education industry. Have you ever asked yourself why we have many more flunkies teaching our children than industry visionaries? Yeah... it's because the incentive, at least financially, is absent!

#141 Posted by N30F3N1X (8076 posts) -

I'm absolutely opposed to theft. I have an appreciation for the time, dedication and creative process that goes into one's work, so I am against diminishing its value. When the incentive (money is a necessity for us all) is diminished, so is desire to trod through the rigors of the creative process, which in turn leads to a general degradation of quality of ideas across the board.

One way to analogize this would be to draw your attention to the primary education industry. Have you ever asked yourself why we have many more flunkies teaching our children than industry visionaries? Yeah... it's because the incentive, at least financially, is absent!

Ernesto_basic

Go to sleep, you're drunk

#142 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
Indifferent. Piracy is unavoidable, so it's best to make sure you treat your legitimate customers with the utmost respect and provide a great product, for a reasonable price and make it extremely accessible. Also, I constantly contemplate the importance of copyright law and whether or not it is beneficial to the creative industries or not.
#143 Posted by MrGeezer (57206 posts) -

It's a known fact reviewers get paid to review some games higher, and others lower.

[QUOTE="megam"]Rentals?Nibroc420

Not for PC gaming

Gameplay commentary on Youtube? megam
Usually aren't out until weeks/months after the release of the game.

 

Developers are intentionally not releasing demos for those games which they'd feel the demo would give the player an accurate reading of the game.Can you imagine if Gears of War released a demo before release?
It would be 30 minutes of the same grayscale level, popping in and out of cover as you gun down the waves of enemies and move to the next room.
Players would know in essense what the game was, and be able to make an informed opinion about it. With no demo you're forced to spend $50-60 on a game only to find out the game is just a repetitive shooter worthy of the bargin bin.

Funny thing about rentals: do you know WHY there aren't rentals for PC games? Because people will just pirate the $*** out of them. This is exactly what I was talking about. The whole reason why there aren't rentals for PC games is because of piracy, then gamers simply go "since I can't rent it beforehand, I'll just pirate it." It's stupid ass-backwards logic. As far as Youtube videos not being up until a few weeks/months after release, boo-f***ing-hoo. Gee, is it THAT much of a big deal to wait a little while until either gameplay videos are available or the games drop in price? You act as if videogames are like crack and you literally cannot go without them. That attitude is also PRECISELY why developers and publishers make the same crappy games and simply use more invasive anti-piracy measures instead of making better games. For all the complaining gamers do about how this or that game sucks and we're not going to buy it, those same gamers go right out and pirate it. What does that say? It says, "I don't like it, but I can't f***ing go without it." That's precisely the attitude that contributes to developers and publishers thinking that sales will soar if they can just lock down the pirates. They think that if they can stop people from pirating the games, that those gamers will be forced to buy those crappy ass games anyway because they can't bear to be without them. That mentality is ABSOLUTELY reinforced by gamer behavior. Every time gamers whine about a game and then pirate the hell out of it, THAT is the message being sent. You are sending that exact message when you're complaining about how watching playthroughs or waiting for price drops requires waiting a few measly months. You're telling them that you can't freaking wait, and that you'd be forced to just buy the game if they managed to find a way to keep you from pirating it.
#144 Posted by The_Lipscomb (2603 posts) -

It may be wrong technically.. but that being said. It's really good for some artist, as your information can get widely be seen by a big audience.. Good for when you're starting out and trying to create a fanbase.

#145 Posted by MrGeezer (57206 posts) -
[QUOTE="AncientDozer"] That's ridiculous. There's no reason that piracy wouldn't send the same or similar message as not buying it. If anything, it should drive the point home that people want to try the game but not for the prices or practices that the company, whoever it is, is using. Maybe developers need to think about what message their walking away with. Because it seems like some of them are lunatics as of late.

That might be true if there was one singular reason why people pirate. There isn't. Some people pirate because they're just cheap. Some people pirate games that they didn't have any interest in in the first place, just to make a point. Some people pirate because they want to play a game but aren't patient enough to wait for a price drop. Etc, etc. Piracy statistics don't account for WHY people are engaging in piracy. You can see that your game was pirated X number of times, but that doesn't tell you ANYTHING about why people pirated it. It says NOTHING about the prices involved, because there's no way to tell whether or not the price was what got people to pirate it. It says nothing about the company's practices, because pirating a game doesn't distinguish between the activist and the cheapskate. If you want to "drive the point home", then don't buy. Don't pirate either. Take five f***ing minutes to write a short and courteous message explaining WHY you won't buy the game (and won't pirate it either), then either post it on the company forum or send it to them via email. When sales tank, and there's hardly any piracy either, and they've got a mountain of emails expressly stating WHY people aren't buying the game, then they'll be forced to listen. Shouldn't take more than a few f***ing minutes, and is in any case a lot easier and quicker than actually pirating the game and then giving the companies zero feedback.
#146 Posted by The_Lipscomb (2603 posts) -

[QUOTE="AncientDozer"] That's ridiculous. There's no reason that piracy wouldn't send the same or similar message as not buying it. If anything, it should drive the point home that people want to try the game but not for the prices or practices that the company, whoever it is, is using. Maybe developers need to think about what message their walking away with. Because it seems like some of them are lunatics as of late.MrGeezer
That might be true if there was one singular reason why people pirate. There isn't. Some people pirate because they're just cheap. Some people pirate games that they didn't have any interest in in the first place, just to make a point. Some people pirate because they want to play a game but aren't patient enough to wait for a price drop. Etc, etc. Piracy statistics don't account for WHY people are engaging in piracy. You can see that your game was pirated X number of times, but that doesn't tell you ANYTHING about why people pirated it. It says NOTHING about the prices involved, because there's no way to tell whether or not the price was what got people to pirate it. It says nothing about the company's practices, because pirating a game doesn't distinguish between the activist and the cheapskate. If you want to "drive the point home", then don't buy. Don't pirate either. Take five f***ing minutes to write a short and courteous message explaining WHY you won't buy the game (and won't pirate it either), then either post it on the company forum or send it to them via email. When sales tank, and there's hardly any piracy either, and they've got a mountain of emails expressly stating WHY people aren't buying the game, then they'll be forced to listen. Shouldn't take more than a few f***ing minutes, and is in any case a lot easier and quicker than actually pirating the game and then giving the companies zero feedback.

Honestly, I think the high price points is really the main issue here. I think steam respresents this well. I'm not going to pay 50 plus dollars for a game, or pay 20 dollars for a film. I'll wait for a price drop, I love the entertianment.. but it's too much for me. People don't want to unload that much cash and not like it. When you pay ten dollars for a game, then you're like.. Well it's only ten bucks, so I'll take a chance. I'm not saying this is the only reason, but I do think it's the main reason for piracy.

#147 Posted by Nibroc420 (13571 posts) -
For all the complaining gamers do about how this or that game sucks and we're not going to buy it, those same gamers go right out and pirate it. MrGeezer
Well yeah, that's how they know the game sucks. Resulting in them not playing the game, or spending any money to support that developer. Reviews have become so paid off, some people simply pirate. If they like the game, they buy it. If they encounter a **** game, they obviously stop playing the game they dont like, and have no intention of supporting a company who makes those games.
#148 Posted by Lonelynight (30041 posts) -
do it all the time.
#149 Posted by TheWalkingGhost (5503 posts) -

Used game sales are worse for the industry, luckily Sony and MS are fixing this next gen.

tenaka2
You are either joking or stupid. Pick one.
#150 Posted by homeboylizard (1289 posts) -

I never pirate games.

But my HDD is filled with hundreds of GB from TV shows because they aren't showing them on my TV (South Europe says hi!). Movies also...but a lot less.

Hey, its not my fault the only way I can watch a new episode is to DL over the internet!