Obama says students with disabilities have a right to play sports

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#301 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
Nobody could point at women and say, "See how the vote!  They shouldn't be allowed to.  Clearly they can't do it!"hartsickdiscipl
But that was a point made against women being able to vote. Those in opposition believed women were too irrational compared to men and as such couldn't vote with the same confidence men could.
#302 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]Nobody could point at women and say, "See how the vote!  They shouldn't be allowed to.  Clearly they can't do it!"Ace6301
But that was a point made against women being able to vote. Those in opposition believed women were too irrational compared to men and as such couldn't vote with the same confidence men could.

 

They had no evidence to back it up.  We have a massive amount of hard evidence that clearly shows that women cannot compete on the same playing field as men in many sports.  Why is that so hard to accept?

#303 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]Nobody could point at women and say, "See how the vote!  They shouldn't be allowed to.  Clearly they can't do it!"hartsickdiscipl

But that was a point made against women being able to vote. Those in opposition believed women were too irrational compared to men and as such couldn't vote with the same confidence men could.

 

They had no evidence to back it up.  We have a massive amount of hard evidence that clearly shows that women cannot compete on the same playing field as men in many sports.  Why is that so hard to accept?

Because that has nothing to do with the argument about the culture of sports and women. Valid evidence on one point does not validate all other points made by one side. There exists evidence that at the highest competitive field men will almost certainly fill the positions. However this doesn't explain why women of equal competitive skill with men are still not competing with men. As for my hypothetical that a crowding out effect lowers the likely hood of a potentially competitive woman having a chance you cannot have evidence for or against it until that crowding out effect no longer exists. If you've ever been involved in highschool contact sports I really fail to see how you could say the effect isn't in play.
#304 Posted by ROFLCOPTER603 (2140 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] But that was a point made against women being able to vote. Those in opposition believed women were too irrational compared to men and as such couldn't vote with the same confidence men could. Ace6301

They had no evidence to back it up. We have a massive amount of hard evidence that clearly shows that women cannot compete on the same playing field as men in many sports. Why is that so hard to accept?

Because that has nothing to do with the argument about the culture of sports and women. Valid evidence on one point does not validate all other points made by one side. There exists evidence that at the highest competitive field men will almost certainly fill the positions. However this doesn't explain why women of equal competitive skill with men are still not competing with men. As for my hypothetical that a crowding out effect lowers the likely hood of a potentially competitive woman having a chance you cannot have evidence for or against it until that crowding out effect no longer exists. If you've ever been involved in highschool contact sports I really fail to see how you could say the effect isn't in play.

What specific women of equal competitive skill exist?

#305 Posted by The-Apostle (12190 posts) -
First thing Obama has say/done since becoming president I actually agree with. I honestly never thought I'd see the day. But big :lol: @ the media for calling him a hero over it...
#306 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

They had no evidence to back it up. We have a massive amount of hard evidence that clearly shows that women cannot compete on the same playing field as men in many sports. Why is that so hard to accept?

ROFLCOPTER603

Because that has nothing to do with the argument about the culture of sports and women. Valid evidence on one point does not validate all other points made by one side. There exists evidence that at the highest competitive field men will almost certainly fill the positions. However this doesn't explain why women of equal competitive skill with men are still not competing with men. As for my hypothetical that a crowding out effect lowers the likely hood of a potentially competitive woman having a chance you cannot have evidence for or against it until that crowding out effect no longer exists. If you've ever been involved in highschool contact sports I really fail to see how you could say the effect isn't in play.

What specific women of equal competitive skill exist?

The ones who are of equal skill with men and play the same game? Who else would I be talking about? The only other way to take this would be you believe the skill gap in women to men that women at the top of their game cannot compete with men at the bottom of theirs and frankly I refuse to believe anyone could think that.
#307 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] But that was a point made against women being able to vote. Those in opposition believed women were too irrational compared to men and as such couldn't vote with the same confidence men could. Ace6301

 

They had no evidence to back it up.  We have a massive amount of hard evidence that clearly shows that women cannot compete on the same playing field as men in many sports.  Why is that so hard to accept?

Because that has nothing to do with the argument about the culture of sports and women. Valid evidence on one point does not validate all other points made by one side. There exists evidence that at the highest competitive field men will almost certainly fill the positions. However this doesn't explain why women of equal competitive skill with men are still not competing with men. As for my hypothetical that a crowding out effect lowers the likely hood of a potentially competitive woman having a chance you cannot have evidence for or against it until that crowding out effect no longer exists. If you've ever been involved in highschool contact sports I really fail to see how you could say the effect isn't in play.

 

Because they can't and they know it's not even close.  It's that simple.  

#308 Posted by ROFLCOPTER603 (2140 posts) -

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] Because that has nothing to do with the argument about the culture of sports and women. Valid evidence on one point does not validate all other points made by one side. There exists evidence that at the highest competitive field men will almost certainly fill the positions. However this doesn't explain why women of equal competitive skill with men are still not competing with men. As for my hypothetical that a crowding out effect lowers the likely hood of a potentially competitive woman having a chance you cannot have evidence for or against it until that crowding out effect no longer exists. If you've ever been involved in highschool contact sports I really fail to see how you could say the effect isn't in play.Ace6301

What specific women of equal competitive skill exist?

The ones who are of equal skill with men and play the same game? Who else would I be talking about? The only other way to take this would be you believe the skill gap in women to men that women at the top of their game cannot compete with men at the bottom of theirs and frankly I refuse to believe anyone could think that.

I said specific. Name a woman that is just as good as any male player, but isn't playing in the male leagues. You can't, because no such woman exists, unfortunately. And actually, the top women are not as good as the lowest men. Running is the easiest sport to look at. The top 25 men beat the fastest woman in the world. Look at women's leagues games. the scores don't even come close to the men's games, and it's slower paced.

#309 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
So both of your claims now are women cannot, at any time and at any level, compete with men. At all. Right?
#310 Posted by ROFLCOPTER603 (2140 posts) -

So both of your claims now are women cannot, at any time and at any level, compete with men. At all. Right?Ace6301

Professionally, no. They cannot compete with men. Again, I could be wrong. But it's interesting that you can't name a female athlete that's good enough to be in a male league.

At a high school level though, yes, they can compete and that's why you see girls participating in male leagues at that level. Maybe even at a college level too, although it's very rare if it happens at all.

#311 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

So both of your claims now are women cannot, at any time and at any level, compete with men. At all. Right?Ace6301

 

That's not what was said, and you know it.  

What was said is basically this-

Top tier elite female athletes cannot realistically compete with top tier male athletes in sports where they are currently separate.  That makes it impractical for women to even attempt to compete in those sports, especially when all-female leagues exist.  I also stand by my statement that there is not one female athlete out there right now that could maintain an NFL career in a position other than kicker or punter.   

#312 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]So both of your claims now are women cannot, at any time and at any level, compete with men. At all. Right?ROFLCOPTER603

Professionally, no. They cannot compete with men. Again, I could be wrong. But it's interesting that you can't name a female athlete that's good enough to be in a male league.

At a high school level though, yes, they can compete and that's why you see girls participating in male leagues at that level. Maybe even at a college level too, although it's very rare if it happens at all.

I'm not only talking about at elite levels. I can't name any because I haven't bothered to look and sports isn't something I've really cared about since high school. I don't get why either of you keep trying to make this about something that no one is arguing against. Is there or is there not a crowding out effect because of the culture of sports? Yes or no.
#313 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]So both of your claims now are women cannot, at any time and at any level, compete with men. At all. Right?Ace6301

Professionally, no. They cannot compete with men. Again, I could be wrong. But it's interesting that you can't name a female athlete that's good enough to be in a male league.

At a high school level though, yes, they can compete and that's why you see girls participating in male leagues at that level. Maybe even at a college level too, although it's very rare if it happens at all.

I'm not only talking about at elite levels. I can't name any because I haven't bothered to look and sports isn't something I've really cared about since high school. I don't get why either of you keep trying to make this about something that no one is arguing against. Is there or is there not a crowding out effect because of the culture of sports? Yes or no.

 

No

#314 Posted by ROFLCOPTER603 (2140 posts) -

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"]So both of your claims now are women cannot, at any time and at any level, compete with men. At all. Right?Ace6301

Professionally, no. They cannot compete with men. Again, I could be wrong. But it's interesting that you can't name a female athlete that's good enough to be in a male league.

At a high school level though, yes, they can compete and that's why you see girls participating in male leagues at that level. Maybe even at a college level too, although it's very rare if it happens at all.

I'm not only talking about at elite levels. I can't name any because I haven't bothered to look and sports isn't something I've really cared about since high school.

I don't really follow sports either. But this is a thread about sports, so it's expected that you're going to either bring or look up some information. If you didn't care you wouldn't have looked at this thread. From what I've looked at, no female athlete compares in any sport, except maybe gymnastics or diving, where they do better. But even in high school, where you have future professionals with poor athletes, women still can't compete. There are a few gems out there, but for the most part, even at a high school level women in general can't compete with men. And this has nothing to do with culture or social stigma.