New Pope Goes Off on Capitalism

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#1 Posted by nomsayin (1141 posts) -
#2 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

Sounds less Liberal and more Christian to me

#3 Edited by nomsayin (1141 posts) -

@Ace6301 said:

Sounds less Liberal and more Christian to me

Yeah, Republican voting Christian fundies are mad hypocritical.

#4 Posted by Jimn_tonic (819 posts) -

it's funny how the catholic church keeps saying that what he says doesn't reflect their views. isn't the guy supposed to be in direct communication with God?

#5 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

it's funny how the catholic church keeps saying that what he says doesn't reflect their views. isn't the guy supposed to be in direct communication with God?

Also the Catholic church is supposed to worship a dude who told people to give their wealth to others, treat everyone right regardless of where they came from, and to live without excess.

Things the Catholic church has been really bad at for a couple hundred years.

#6 Edited by Makhaidos (1613 posts) -

I'm not Catholic, but I really, really like Francis. He's such a nice step away from Ratzinger. He really appears genuine, too.

#7 Posted by mattbbpl (10572 posts) -

There seems to be an enormous split about this guy. In one camp (generally the younger camp), I hear a lot of people say that they find his focus refreshing. In the other camp, I hear a lot of people claim they hate him because, "he's going against the teaching's of Jesus by not focusing on homosexuality and abortion."

Regardless, I'm surprised at his specificity. Rather than lay out vague platitudes and dictates, he's discussing specific policies and issues (at least from his perspective). I mean, everyone will nod in agreement at a comment like, "We need to care about the least among us," but I imagine he'll get some grief from large numbers of people over this.

He's got some guts, I have to give him that.

#8 Posted by Master_Live (14244 posts) -

Awwww, is that so Poppy? Good for you.

#9 Posted by Barbariser (6724 posts) -

I am not going to put myself through six and a half minutes of The Young Turks, so I'll just say that I don't see why anyone should care about Francis's opinion on economic matters.

#10 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

I am not going to put myself through six and a half minutes of The Young Turks, so I'll just say that I don't see why anyone should care about Francis's opinion on economic matters.

Because much like everyone else he may actually have a point worth hearing.

#11 Edited by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

I don't agree with him nor is it that simple but I respect him: He's pretty chill for a Pope, and he's definitely not hypocritical. If you didn't know, Popes are well off but the current Pope lives modestly.

I did say he was liberal on social issues, but I was mistaken. He's still conservative with a few liberal stances but that's expected for the Catholic Pope.

#12 Posted by HuggyBear1020 (456 posts) -

It takes a LOT of money to run the Vatican, but hey, capitalism bad right?

#13 Posted by ferrari2001 (16833 posts) -

Did anyone actually read the encyclical or do they just quote the media who also hasn't read the encyclical? Having read the encyclical he's not opposed to capitalism nor the free market but rather says that our resources should be used to help the poor. Any form of government whether that be one founded on capitalistic principles or otherwise must be regulated in a way that ensures that the poor are not oppressed. Our focus should not be in the unlimited gain of our personal wealth but rather a recognition that ultimately that wealth does not belong to us, rather to God. As such we should share that wealth in an intelligent and charitable way. He isn't opposed to people being wealth or making money so long as, as a society, we help those who are less fortunate in an adequate way.

#14 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

Did anyone actually read the encyclical or do they just quote the media who also hasn't read the encyclical? Having read the encyclical he's not opposed to capitalism nor the free market but rather says that our resources should be used to help the poor. Any form of government whether that be one founded on capitalistic principles or otherwise must be regulated in a way that ensures that the poor are not oppressed. Our focus should not be in the unlimited gain of our personal wealth but rather a recognition that ultimately that wealth does not belong to us, rather to God. As such we should share that wealth in an intelligent and charitable way. He isn't opposed to people being wealth or making money so long as, as a society, we help those who are less fortunate in an adequate way.

He's a goddamn commie atheist thats for sure. Jerry Falwell should be the pope.

#15 Edited by ferrari2001 (16833 posts) -

@leviathan91 said:

@ferrari2001 said:

Did anyone actually read the encyclical or do they just quote the media who also hasn't read the encyclical? Having read the encyclical he's not opposed to capitalism nor the free market but rather says that our resources should be used to help the poor. Any form of government whether that be one founded on capitalistic principles or otherwise must be regulated in a way that ensures that the poor are not oppressed. Our focus should not be in the unlimited gain of our personal wealth but rather a recognition that ultimately that wealth does not belong to us, rather to God. As such we should share that wealth in an intelligent and charitable way. He isn't opposed to people being wealth or making money so long as, as a society, we help those who are less fortunate in an adequate way.

He's a goddamn commie atheist thats for sure. Jerry Falwell should be the pope.

Technically the Pope is a monarch.

#16 Posted by mattbbpl (10572 posts) -

Did anyone actually read the encyclical or do they just quote the media who also hasn't read the encyclical? Having read the encyclical he's not opposed to capitalism nor the free market but rather says that our resources should be used to help the poor. Any form of government whether that be one founded on capitalistic principles or otherwise must be regulated in a way that ensures that the poor are not oppressed. Our focus should not be in the unlimited gain of our personal wealth but rather a recognition that ultimately that wealth does not belong to us, rather to God. As such we should share that wealth in an intelligent and charitable way. He isn't opposed to people being wealth or making money so long as, as a society, we help those who are less fortunate in an adequate way.

I have (at least the portions regarding the topic mentioned here). I considered pointing out that he seems to be condemning the attempt to continually move towards a more free, unregulated market, but decided that was implied (since basically every major economy on the planet uses capitalism as a base).

#17 Posted by comp_atkins (31284 posts) -

funny that anyone would get excited over the pope saying something that should be patently obvious to any practicing christian....

#18 Posted by ferrari2001 (16833 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:

@ferrari2001 said:

Did anyone actually read the encyclical or do they just quote the media who also hasn't read the encyclical? Having read the encyclical he's not opposed to capitalism nor the free market but rather says that our resources should be used to help the poor. Any form of government whether that be one founded on capitalistic principles or otherwise must be regulated in a way that ensures that the poor are not oppressed. Our focus should not be in the unlimited gain of our personal wealth but rather a recognition that ultimately that wealth does not belong to us, rather to God. As such we should share that wealth in an intelligent and charitable way. He isn't opposed to people being wealth or making money so long as, as a society, we help those who are less fortunate in an adequate way.

I have (at least the portions regarding the topic mentioned here). I considered pointing out that he seems to be condemning the attempt to continually move towards a more free, unregulated market, but decided that was implied (since basically every major economy on the planet uses capitalism as a base).

Yep he definitely supports a well and responsibly regulated market. However he also points out many times that the free will of the people must also be protected. Many of his ideals that he lays out in the document are not, I think, actually possible to obtain but they are something that we can at least strive for.

#19 Edited by mattbbpl (10572 posts) -

@comp_atkins said:

funny that anyone would get excited over the pope saying something that should be patently obvious to any practicing christian....

The weird mixing of social and economic issues in the US have kind of gotten a large segment of the Christian population in that region to associate free market capitalism with Christianity. That tie seems to be coming undone a bit in the younger generations, though.

#20 Edited by whipassmt (13998 posts) -

@Makhaidos:

That's silly. Francis has said that he admires Benedict XVI numerous times.

#21 Posted by whipassmt (13998 posts) -

it's funny how the catholic church keeps saying that what he says doesn't reflect their views. isn't the guy supposed to be in direct communication with God?

Not really. The Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit and can infallibly define dogmas on faith and morals, but he only does so rarely.

#22 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

The Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit

I lol'd.

#23 Posted by Makhaidos (1613 posts) -

@Makhaidos:

That's silly. Francis has said that he admires Benedict XVI numerous times.

It's one thing to admire and quite another to emulate.

#24 Posted by whipassmt (13998 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:

There seems to be an enormous split about this guy. In one camp (generally the younger camp), I hear a lot of people say that they find his focus refreshing. In the other camp, I hear a lot of people claim they hate him because, "he's going against the teaching's of Jesus by not focusing on homosexuality and abortion."

Regardless, I'm surprised at his specificity. Rather than lay out vague platitudes and dictates, he's discussing specific policies and issues (at least from his perspective). I mean, everyone will nod in agreement at a comment like, "We need to care about the least among us," but I imagine he'll get some grief from large numbers of people over this.

He's got some guts, I have to give him that.

He has made pro-life statements while Pope. As far as not focusing on abortion and homosexuality, those are topics that are probably more obsessed over by Americans and other Westerners, and in general popes don't talk about those things that much. It's just what our media over here tend to pick up.

#25 Posted by whipassmt (13998 posts) -

@whipassmt said:

@Makhaidos:

That's silly. Francis has said that he admires Benedict XVI numerous times.

It's one thing to admire and quite another to emulate.

I'm unsure what you mean. He hasn't done anything radically different from Benedict XVI or John Paul II.

#26 Edited by Laihendi (5819 posts) -

Pope Francis is an idiot.

#27 Edited by GreySeal9 (24118 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:

@comp_atkins said:

funny that anyone would get excited over the pope saying something that should be patently obvious to any practicing christian....

The weird mixing of social and economic issues in the US have kind of gotten a large segment of the Christian population in that region to associate free market capitalism with Christianity. That tie seems to be coming undone a bit in the younger generations, though.

Yep. I like Christianity on its own merits, but it can get pretty ugly and contradictory when mixed with rightwing politics.

#28 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

@Laihendi said:

Pope Francis is an idiot.

Yet he has more fame, notoriety and influence than you ever will. He's also probably passed on more money than you will ever come into. Maybe he's an idiot, never met the guy. What he's saying isn't idiotic though and his past doesn't give me any real indications of idiocy.

#29 Edited by GreySeal9 (24118 posts) -

Laihendi doesn't even deserve to be compared to Pope Francis. I don't agree with a lot of what Pope Francis thinks, but he's worthy of respect whereas Laihendi is just some know-nothing kid with a childish worldview/philosophy.

#30 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

Laihendi doesn't even deserve to be compared to Pope Francis. I probably don't agree with a lot of what Pope Francis thinks, but he's worthy of respect whereas Laihendi is an uneducated kid with a childish worldview/philosophy.

I wouldn't say its really a comparison so much as straight up unabashed mockery.

#31 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

@Laihendi said:

Pope Francis is an idiot.

You should really finish up that book and get it on the market. Otherwise people might start to think you're just an idiotic kid who's all talk but no substance.

#32 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

@Laihendi said:

Pope Francis is an idiot.

You should really finish up that book and get it on the market. Otherwise people might start to think you're just an idiotic kid who's all talk but no substance.

Self publishing a book isn't going to change that.

#33 Posted by Makhaidos (1613 posts) -

@Ace6301 said:
@worlock77 said:

@Laihendi said:

Pope Francis is an idiot.

You should really finish up that book and get it on the market. Otherwise people might start to think you're just an idiotic kid who's all talk but no substance.

Self publishing a book isn't going to change that.

If anything, it'll just confirm it for the masses.

#34 Posted by mattbbpl (10572 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:

There seems to be an enormous split about this guy. In one camp (generally the younger camp), I hear a lot of people say that they find his focus refreshing. In the other camp, I hear a lot of people claim they hate him because, "he's going against the teaching's of Jesus by not focusing on homosexuality and abortion."

Regardless, I'm surprised at his specificity. Rather than lay out vague platitudes and dictates, he's discussing specific policies and issues (at least from his perspective). I mean, everyone will nod in agreement at a comment like, "We need to care about the least among us," but I imagine he'll get some grief from large numbers of people over this.

He's got some guts, I have to give him that.

He has made pro-life statements while Pope. As far as not focusing on abortion and homosexuality, those are topics that are probably more obsessed over by Americans and other Westerners, and in general popes don't talk about those things that much. It's just what our media over here tend to pick up.

Oh, I'm not arguing. That's just the perception that one of the camps has. I was merely describing the split that I'm seeing.

#35 Posted by chaplainDMK (6773 posts) -

Lol can't wait for some right wing lunnie to label him a Communist.

#36 Posted by GreySeal9 (24118 posts) -

Lol can't wait for some right wing lunnie to label him a Communist.

Sarah Palin all ready made some comment about him making "liberal statements." She apologized for it, but still...

#37 Edited by sSubZerOo (43098 posts) -

Did anyone actually read the encyclical or do they just quote the media who also hasn't read the encyclical? Having read the encyclical he's not opposed to capitalism nor the free market but rather says that our resources should be used to help the poor. Any form of government whether that be one founded on capitalistic principles or otherwise must be regulated in a way that ensures that the poor are not oppressed. Our focus should not be in the unlimited gain of our personal wealth but rather a recognition that ultimately that wealth does not belong to us, rather to God. As such we should share that wealth in an intelligent and charitable way. He isn't opposed to people being wealth or making money so long as, as a society, we help those who are less fortunate in an adequate way.

HE might as well be declared as attacking capitalism when looking at the United States.. We basically have large portions of the Christian population being preached to by a select few popular speakers suggesting that material success is the goal.. We also have a entrenched extreme in one of the parties that wears their religion on their sleeves while attacking the poor class in classifying them as drains to every body else and lazy. In their minds this is exactly that, because the garnering of wealth basically has turned from what you suggest, to what ever the costs.

#38 Posted by mattbbpl (10572 posts) -

@ferrari2001 said:

Did anyone actually read the encyclical or do they just quote the media who also hasn't read the encyclical? Having read the encyclical he's not opposed to capitalism nor the free market but rather says that our resources should be used to help the poor. Any form of government whether that be one founded on capitalistic principles or otherwise must be regulated in a way that ensures that the poor are not oppressed. Our focus should not be in the unlimited gain of our personal wealth but rather a recognition that ultimately that wealth does not belong to us, rather to God. As such we should share that wealth in an intelligent and charitable way. He isn't opposed to people being wealth or making money so long as, as a society, we help those who are less fortunate in an adequate way.

HE might as well be declared as attacking capitalism when looking at the United States.. We basically have large portions of the Christian population being preached to by a select few popular speakers suggesting that material success is the goal.. We also have a entrenched extreme in one of the parties that wears their religion on their sleeves while attacking the poor class in classifying them as drains to every body else and lazy. In their minds this is exactly that, because the garnering of wealth basically has turned from what you suggest, to what ever the costs.

That has even entered the mainstream discourse when discussing businesses. There is no shortage of those who believe that companies have no responsibility but to earn the highest profit possible even if it means their workers toil in poverty and they cause external damage/costs by their actions.

We still teach business ethics, but we really just give it lip service while claiming that policies meant to curb these shortcomings (like the minimum wage and environmental regulation) just get in the way and prevent further profit making.

#39 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7750 posts) -

Granted I don't view the Pope as an authority figure on pretty much ANYTHING, its a bit refreshing to see the new one mix it up a bit with a little controversy. Gives me a little tickle to see some conservatives getting squeamish as he says some of these things.

Although it doesn't take a brainiac to see that completely unregulated capitalism, ala Ayn Rand style, is quite opposite to the main teachings of the NT.

#40 Edited by whipassmt (13998 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:

@comp_atkins said:

funny that anyone would get excited over the pope saying something that should be patently obvious to any practicing christian....

The weird mixing of social and economic issues in the US have kind of gotten a large segment of the Christian population in that region to associate free market capitalism with Christianity. That tie seems to be coming undone a bit in the younger generations, though.

Yep. I like Christianity on its own merits, but it can get pretty ugly and contradictory when mixed with rightwing politics.

Or leftwing politics for that matter.

#41 Posted by deeliman (2402 posts) -

@GreySeal9 said:

@mattbbpl said:

@comp_atkins said:

funny that anyone would get excited over the pope saying something that should be patently obvious to any practicing christian....

The weird mixing of social and economic issues in the US have kind of gotten a large segment of the Christian population in that region to associate free market capitalism with Christianity. That tie seems to be coming undone a bit in the younger generations, though.

Yep. I like Christianity on its own merits, but it can get pretty ugly and contradictory when mixed with rightwing politics.

Or leftwing politics for that matter.

Or any politics really.

#42 Posted by Shottayouth13- (6766 posts) -

I really like this new pope. He's definitely making a lot of progress.

#43 Posted by Laihendi (5819 posts) -

@Ace6301 said:

@Laihendi said:

Pope Francis is an idiot.

Yet he has more fame, notoriety and influence than you ever will. He's also probably passed on more money than you will ever come into.

None of these things are actually signs of intelligence. The Pope is an idiot... and not incidentally most of his followers are as well.

#44 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

@Laihendi said:

@Ace6301 said:

@Laihendi said:

Pope Francis is an idiot.

Yet he has more fame, notoriety and influence than you ever will. He's also probably passed on more money than you will ever come into.

None of these things are actually signs of intelligence. The Pope is an idiot... and not incidentally most of his followers are as well.

What exactly make Francis an idiot?

#45 Posted by X360PS3AMD05 (36298 posts) -

If it wasn't for Capitalism they wouldn't be where they are today.................so what kind of shoes does Francis like? Prada or Gucci?

#46 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

If it wasn't for Capitalism they wouldn't be where they are today.................so what kind of shoes does Francis like? Prada or Gucci?

If not for capitalism none of us would be where we're at today. Doesn't mean we can't comment on the negatives of it however.

#47 Posted by Brain_Duster (392 posts) -

Who pays attention to the Pope anymore?

#48 Posted by DrKillByDeath84 (376 posts) -

@Laihendi said:

Pope Francis is an idiot.

You should really finish up that book and get it on the market. Otherwise people might start to think you're just an idiotic kid who's all talk but no substance.

What do you mean START to think, anyone who thinks atlas shrugged is good reading material is fvcking coo coo for coco puffs.

#49 Edited by Serraph105 (27840 posts) -

Almost as if he is saying that we need to take care of each other. I identify with Christianity, but I don't consider myself Catholic and despite that I really like the tone Pope Francis is striking. I don't believe you should allow some person millions of miles away who has never met you nor knows that you exist to direct the actions you take in life. However since many people do so I suggest picking a person who's main focus is to spread love and tolerance rather than someone who tries to tell you what is okay, and what sort of people you let into your little group.

All that being said I understand that I am agreeing with the new pope largely because he syncs up with my views making him little better than my choice of politician. I find it worth noting though that the reason I agree with his style is because it largely reflects the values I learned growing up in church which are not at all in sync with the extreme views that I see many talking about today.

#50 Posted by Fightingfan (38011 posts) -

The Pope should start a new crusade!

Off with thee head Obama!