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ChiliDragon

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#51 ChiliDragon
Member since 2006 • 8444 Posts

Ok I mispelt a word, big deal. No reason to be such a grammar nazi about it.

That's basically just an attempt to try to discredit an argument that you can't win, you attack the grammar not the point. It's a fallacy.

ShadowMoses900
I thought it was closer to ad hominem than a fallacy? Or am I mistaken here? And that's spelling-nazi, not grammar-nazi. Pardon me for suggesting you might come across better if you pay attention to minor details like that. :P
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ShadowMoses900

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#52 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

Ignore the TC everyone, he's just butthurt that the PS3 is in last place.TrueAmerican007

What?

I don't care about that, what does that have to do with this thread?

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Socialist696

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#53 Socialist696
Member since 2012 • 558 Posts

[QUOTE="Socialist696"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Slavery in the Bible is not anywhere close to what you think of Slavery I can assure you. In ancient Jewish culture "Slaver" was more like indenturned servitude, you coud not physically harm them and it was only temporary, only up to a maximum of 7 years.

And the "owner" was responsible for his "slaves" well being, along with any family he might have. You only became a slave if you commited a crime against that person or were poor and wanted to learn a trade or skill.

I believe the things were wrong period, just that the people at that time didn't know any better and were doing their best to please God, in the only way they understood at that time. It still doesn't make it right.

ShadowMoses900

ShadowMoses33....I've been trying to avoid being blunt for the duration of this whole thread but I fear I must inform you for the sake of your humility. Before you bring up religion, history, and morality please broaden your understanding of all those aspects, the contrast between then and now, and possibly have a more open mind (not a closed one that defends your religion insistently and flogs others for "wrong-doings"). So, once again, for the last time, the marriage was perfectly fine and not wrong by any means back than. And here is a little information on Christianity that I don't know if you know or not. Its about killings and murder, one the Catholic churches favorites back in the day. http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html I don't think I need to cite more sources for each of your defenses on Jewish or Christan religions, considering all the pedophilia, murders, rapes and exploitation both have commited as well, just as I don't need to prove Islam is wrong or right because it speaks for itself like Judaism and Christianity. Each religion does wrong, accept it for what it is please because this thread was answered on page one and drags on only because you insist on accepting relevant, historically accurate responses.

It was not answered on page 1, I want to know why Muhammed did what he did in that act and how can one justify it. I know each religion has done some bad, they have also done some good, but no one has explained the context to me at all.

But no matter I will leave this thread since no one here is helfpul (OT being OT as usual), I found a Muslim website that gives better insight and it even admits what Muhammed did was wrong even at that time.

TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Muhammad's Sex Life

That was also answered by another user, I believe on page 2. Either way, go find another source for information than. Sorry the truth isn't fit for you and you need to find your information that only caters to your views rather than the broader view.
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ShadowMoses900

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#54 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Ok I mispelt a word, big deal. No reason to be such a grammar nazi about it.

That's basically just an attempt to try to discredit an argument that you can't win, you attack the grammar not the point. It's a fallacy.

ChiliDragon

I thought it was closer to ad hominem than a fallacy? Or am I mistaken here? And that's spelling-nazi, not grammar-nazi. Pardon me for suggesting you might come across better if you pay attention to minor details like that. :P

Well I appreciate it, if I make a mistake please feel free to point it out. Maybe I misinterpeted it as being rude.

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PWSteal_Ldpinch

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#55 PWSteal_Ldpinch
Member since 2011 • 1172 Posts

Also, is Muhammad plowing 9-year-old Aisha and thus making child marriage explicity allowable really the same thing as child sex abuse by Catholic priests?

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wis3boi

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#56 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

ShadowMoses900

Look at your own texts and ask the same thing. And do not use any of this 'metaphor' bullsh!t. Go ahead and try to justify it. These old books of supposed divine origins are of zero value to morals or a way to base society on. They are disgusting works of the human mind nothing more.

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ShadowMoses900

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#57 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] ShadowMoses33....I've been trying to avoid being blunt for the duration of this whole thread but I fear I must inform you for the sake of your humility. Before you bring up religion, history, and morality please broaden your understanding of all those aspects, the contrast between then and now, and possibly have a more open mind (not a closed one that defends your religion insistently and flogs others for "wrong-doings"). So, once again, for the last time, the marriage was perfectly fine and not wrong by any means back than. And here is a little information on Christianity that I don't know if you know or not. Its about killings and murder, one the Catholic churches favorites back in the day. http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html I don't think I need to cite more sources for each of your defenses on Jewish or Christan religions, considering all the pedophilia, murders, rapes and exploitation both have commited as well, just as I don't need to prove Islam is wrong or right because it speaks for itself like Judaism and Christianity. Each religion does wrong, accept it for what it is please because this thread was answered on page one and drags on only because you insist on accepting relevant, historically accurate responses.

Socialist696

It was not answered on page 1, I want to know why Muhammed did what he did in that act and how can one justify it. I know each religion has done some bad, they have also done some good, but no one has explained the context to me at all.

But no matter I will leave this thread since no one here is helfpul (OT being OT as usual), I found a Muslim website that gives better insight and it even admits what Muhammed did was wrong even at that time.

TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Muhammad's Sex Life

That was also answered by another user, I believe on page 2. Either way, go find another source for information than. Sorry the truth isn't fit for you and you need to find your information that only caters to your views rather than the broader view.

I have no problem accepting different views, I just can't accept pedophilia. No good person could, anyone that does should not be in the world

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ShadowMoses900

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#58 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

wis3boi

Look at your own texts and ask the same thing. And do not use any of this 'metaphor' bullsh!t. Go ahead and try to justify it. These old books of supposed divine origins are of zero value to morals or a way to base society on. They are disgusting works of the human mind nothing more.

I disagree, and religion formed the basis for early society and there are good morals in it. It just depends on how you interpet it. But I'm not going to argue this with you, you are not respectful of religious people and you support the guy in my blog that said I shouldn't breed. Eugenics is something only a Nazi would support.

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nocoolnamejim

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#59 nocoolnamejim
Member since 2003 • 15136 Posts

Also, is Muhammad plowing 9-year-old Aisha and thus making child marriage explicity allowable really the same thing as child sex abuse by Catholic priests?

PWSteal_Ldpinch
I thought she was 6 years old in your previous post. Can we get a final answer Regis? And, again, you're lumping past and present together. I made an argument that you can't hold Islam to a higher standard back in ancient era than you do Christianity. If you're going to excuse what Christians did back then as a product of the time period then you have to also excuse Islam. If you're going to prosecute Islam, then you have to do the same for Christianity. Fair play. Pick which time period you want to debate. Ancient times or modern times.
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wis3boi

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#60 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

ShadowMoses900

Look at your own texts and ask the same thing. And do not use any of this 'metaphor' bullsh!t. Go ahead and try to justify it. These old books of supposed divine origins are of zero value to morals or a way to base society on. They are disgusting works of the human mind nothing more.

I disagree, and religion formed the basis for early society and there are good morals in it. It just depends on how you interpet it. But I'm not going to argue this with you, you are not respectful of religious people and you support the guy in my blog that said I shouldn't breed. Eugenics is something only a Nazi would support.

I like how you resort to making sh!t up as an argument. And you wonder why people laugh at you

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Socialist696

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#61 Socialist696
Member since 2012 • 558 Posts

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

It was not answered on page 1, I want to know why Muhammed did what he did in that act and how can one justify it. I know each religion has done some bad, they have also done some good, but no one has explained the context to me at all.

But no matter I will leave this thread since no one here is helfpul (OT being OT as usual), I found a Muslim website that gives better insight and it even admits what Muhammed did was wrong even at that time.

TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Muhammad's Sex Life

ShadowMoses900

That was also answered by another user, I believe on page 2. Either way, go find another source for information than. Sorry the truth isn't fit for you and you need to find your information that only caters to your views rather than the broader view.

I have no problem accepting different views, I just can't accept pedophilia. No good person could, anyone that does should not be in the world

facepalm.jpg

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ShadowMoses900

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#62 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Look at your own texts and ask the same thing. And do not use any of this 'metaphor' bullsh!t. Go ahead and try to justify it. These old books of supposed divine origins are of zero value to morals or a way to base society on. They are disgusting works of the human mind nothing more.

wis3boi

I disagree, and religion formed the basis for early society and there are good morals in it. It just depends on how you interpet it. But I'm not going to argue this with you, you are not respectful of religious people and you support the guy in my blog that said I shouldn't breed. Eugenics is something only a Nazi would support.

I like how you resort to making sh!t up as an argument. And you wonder why people laugh at you

I'm not making anything up, a guy in my blog post said I shouldn't breed and you liked it.

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ShadowMoses900

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#63 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] That was also answered by another user, I believe on page 2. Either way, go find another source for information than. Sorry the truth isn't fit for you and you need to find your information that only caters to your views rather than the broader view.Socialist696

I have no problem accepting different views, I just can't accept pedophilia. No good person could, anyone that does should not be in the world

facepalm.jpg

Are you suggesting people should accept pedophilia? Because if you are then you are just sick.

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67gt500

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#64 67gt500
Member since 2003 • 4627 Posts

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

ShadowMoses900

"In Jewish Ashkenazi communities in the Middle Ages, girls were married off very young.[1] Despite the young threshold for marriage a large age gap between the spouses was opposed.[2][3] Child marriage was possible in Judaism due to the very low marriageable age for females. A ketannah (literally meaning "little [one]") was any girl between the age of 3 years and that of 12 years plus one day..." Hmmm... well Shadow' it -- uh -- seems your Islamic cousins werent the only ones back then taking child brides... better luck next time... why would people who claim to follow God do such a sick thing?

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Socialist696

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#65 Socialist696
Member since 2012 • 558 Posts

[QUOTE="Socialist696"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

I have no problem accepting different views, I just can't accept pedophilia. No good person could, anyone that does should not be in the world

ShadowMoses900

facepalm.jpg

Are you suggesting people should accept pedophilia? Because if you are then you are just sick.

ignorance-ignorance-point-of-view-la-la-

For the hundredth time, BACK THAN IT WAS ACCEPTABLE. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO COMPREHEND, CONSIDERING EVEN YOUR RELIGIONS DID IT?

Dude, I grow so tired of argueing the same point back and forth, back and forth yet you STILL DONT GET IT.

Look at that picture. It represents you clearly. Congratulations for not heeding my warning and sparing your humility, because I can pretty much guaranteed that you are the laughing stock of this whole board right now thanks to you're overwhelmingly ridiculous refusal to comprehend, listen or accept facts.

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ShadowMoses900

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#66 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

67gt500

"In Jewish Ashkenazi communities in the Middle Ages, girls were married off very young.[1] Despite the young threshold for marriage a large age gap between the spouses was opposed.[2][3] Child marriage was possible in Judaism due to the very low marriageable age for females. A ketannah (literally meaning "little [one]") was any girl between the age of 3 years and that of 12 years plus one day..." Hmmm... well Shadow' it -- uh -- seems your Islamic cousins werent the only ones back then taking child brides... better luck next time...

Wrong.

While it was true that children were married at 13 (for boys) and 12 (for girls) none of them were married at 3 or any other such age. Regardless they were wrong when they married like that, they also did arranged marriages which is also wrong.

No Jewish person alive today does that anymore, except for maybe some really strict Orthodox sects. But they are very backwards and refuse to get with the times.

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wis3boi

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#67 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

I disagree, and religion formed the basis for early society and there are good morals in it. It just depends on how you interpet it. But I'm not going to argue this with you, you are not respectful of religious people and you support the guy in my blog that said I shouldn't breed. Eugenics is something only a Nazi would support.

ShadowMoses900

I like how you resort to making sh!t up as an argument. And you wonder why people laugh at you

I'm not making anything up, a guy in my blog post said I shouldn't breed and you liked it.

you're no fun, you're just dense. You claim an open mind, but all I see is a "Space for Rent" sign

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ShadowMoses900

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#68 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"]

facepalm.jpg

Socialist696

Are you suggesting people should accept pedophilia? Because if you are then you are just sick.

ignorance-ignorance-point-of-view-la-la-

For the hundredth time, BACK THAN IT WAS ACCEPTABLE. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO COMPREHEND, CONSIDERING EVEN YOUR RELIGIONS DID IT?

Dude, I grow so tired of argueing the same point back and forth, back and forth yet you STILL DONT GET IT.

Look at that picture. It represents you clearly. Congratulations for not heeding my warning and sparing your humility, because I can pretty much guaranteed that you are the laughing stock of this whole board right now thanks to you're overwhelmingly ridiculous refusal to comprehend, listen or accept facts.

I am not agruing about what was acceptable back then, I am saying it is wrong period and you seem to have a problem with that for some reason. OT GS is the only community where people mock and redicule me, and it's for the most asinine reasons.

There are people on here that support inces for crying out loud! If I am the lauging stock around here than I'm happy about it because at least I know I'm not backwards like a lot of people around here are.

Also OT is full of militant atheists who just hate religious people regardless. Luckily in the real world OT is the minority, which is why they are so vocal here. It's their only outlet on the internet.

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67gt500

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#69 67gt500
Member since 2003 • 4627 Posts

[QUOTE="67gt500"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

ShadowMoses900

"In Jewish Ashkenazi communities in the Middle Ages, girls were married off very young.[1] Despite the young threshold for marriage a large age gap between the spouses was opposed.[2][3] Child marriage was possible in Judaism due to the very low marriageable age for females. A ketannah (literally meaning "little [one]") was any girl between the age of 3 years and that of 12 years plus one day..." Hmmm... well Shadow' it -- uh -- seems your Islamic cousins werent the only ones back then taking child brides... better luck next time...

Wrong.

While it was true that children were married at 13 (for boys) and 12 (for girls) none of them were married at 3 or any other such age. Regardless they were wrong when they married like that, they also did arranged marriages which is also wrong.

No Jewish person alive today does that anymore, except for maybe some really strict Orthodox sects. But they are very backwards and refuse to get with the times.

Not wrong... ancient jewish dictum stipulates that technically a girl can be betrothed at birth and married at age 3... boys cannot marry until age 13...
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Socialist696

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#70 Socialist696
Member since 2012 • 558 Posts

[QUOTE="67gt500"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Are you suggesting people should accept pedophilia? Because if you are then you are just sick.

ShadowMoses900

ignorance-ignorance-point-of-view-la-la-

For the hundredth time, BACK THAN IT WAS ACCEPTABLE. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO COMPREHEND, CONSIDERING EVEN YOUR RELIGIONS DID IT?

Dude, I grow so tired of argueing the same point back and forth, back and forth yet you STILL DONT GET IT.

Look at that picture. It represents you clearly. Congratulations for not heeding my warning and sparing your humility, because I can pretty much guaranteed that you are the laughing stock of this whole board right now thanks to you're overwhelmingly ridiculous refusal to comprehend, listen or accept facts.

I am not agruing about what was acceptable back then, I am saying it is wrong period and you seem to have a problem with that for some reason. OT GS is the only community where people mock and redicule me, and it's for the most asinine reasons.

There are people on here that support inces for crying out loud! If I am the lauging stock around here than I'm happy about it because at least I know I'm not backwards like a lot of people around here are.

Also OT is full of militant atheists who just hate religious people regardless. Luckily in the real world OT is the minority, which is why they are so vocal here. It's their only outlet on the internet.

Exactly where in ANY of my posts did I say it was right by me? I said it was acceptable than, and its acceptable now in some cultures and parts of the world. You are ridiculed because, quite frankly and I'm sorry to be direct, you're kind of a not too bright on either understanding what people are saying or the bigger picture. You have embarassed yourself irreversibly. Do you notice that absolutely no one is supporting you and your the only sane one here, while we are all pedo lovers and wrong headed? Just do yourself a favor, the worlds a better place when you live it with your head out you ***.
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ShadowMoses900

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#71 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="67gt500"]

ignorance-ignorance-point-of-view-la-la-

For the hundredth time, BACK THAN IT WAS ACCEPTABLE. WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO COMPREHEND, CONSIDERING EVEN YOUR RELIGIONS DID IT?

Dude, I grow so tired of argueing the same point back and forth, back and forth yet you STILL DONT GET IT.

Look at that picture. It represents you clearly. Congratulations for not heeding my warning and sparing your humility, because I can pretty much guaranteed that you are the laughing stock of this whole board right now thanks to you're overwhelmingly ridiculous refusal to comprehend, listen or accept facts.

Socialist696

I am not agruing about what was acceptable back then, I am saying it is wrong period and you seem to have a problem with that for some reason. OT GS is the only community where people mock and redicule me, and it's for the most asinine reasons.

There are people on here that support inces for crying out loud! If I am the lauging stock around here than I'm happy about it because at least I know I'm not backwards like a lot of people around here are.

Also OT is full of militant atheists who just hate religious people regardless. Luckily in the real world OT is the minority, which is why they are so vocal here. It's their only outlet on the internet.

Exactly where in ANY of my posts did I say it was right by me? I said it was acceptable than, and its acceptable now in some cultures and parts of the world. You are ridiculed because, quite frankly and I'm sorry to be direct, you're kind of a not too bright on either understanding what people are saying or the bigger picture. You have embarassed yourself irreversibly. Do you notice that absolutely no one is supporting you and your the only sane one here, while we are all pedo lovers and wrong headed? Just do yourself a favor, the worlds a better place when you live it with your head out you ***.

Other sites happen to like my views and I usually get top comments on Yahoo. I show some real life people I know some of the topics here in OT and what some of the people say here, they also think a lot of you are backwards and out there.

Laugh at me all you want, insult me all you want, I don't care. To me you are the one's who are not too bright and have your heads stuck up your asses. Too liberal for your own good and far too hateful of religious people.

To me some of the best users here are King Kong and LJ Basic, they posts common sense and don't back down from their views. I get the feeling that a lot of you are simply trying to "fit in" around here and not really being honest.

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PWSteal_Ldpinch

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#72 PWSteal_Ldpinch
Member since 2011 • 1172 Posts

I thought she was 6 years old in your previous post. Can we get a final answer Regis? nocoolnamejim

Married when she was 6, consummated when she was 9.

And, again, you're lumping past and present together. I made an argument that you can't hold Islam to a higher standard back in ancient era than you do Christianity. If you're going to excuse what Christians did back then as a product of the time period then you have to also excuse Islam. If you're going to prosecute Islam, then you have to do the same for Christianity. Fair play. Pick which time period you want to debate. Ancient times or modern times. nocoolnamejim
I didn't try to excuse anything. I only took issue with your attempt to rebuff OP by purporting to dig sh it up on his own religion. Unless his religion also explicitly allows child marriage, your tactic doesn't have any logical purpose except to curb debate.

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Socialist696

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#73 Socialist696
Member since 2012 • 558 Posts

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

I am not agruing about what was acceptable back then, I am saying it is wrong period and you seem to have a problem with that for some reason. OT GS is the only community where people mock and redicule me, and it's for the most asinine reasons.

There are people on here that support inces for crying out loud! If I am the lauging stock around here than I'm happy about it because at least I know I'm not backwards like a lot of people around here are.

Also OT is full of militant atheists who just hate religious people regardless. Luckily in the real world OT is the minority, which is why they are so vocal here. It's their only outlet on the internet.

ShadowMoses900

Exactly where in ANY of my posts did I say it was right by me? I said it was acceptable than, and its acceptable now in some cultures and parts of the world. You are ridiculed because, quite frankly and I'm sorry to be direct, you're kind of a not too bright on either understanding what people are saying or the bigger picture. You have embarassed yourself irreversibly. Do you notice that absolutely no one is supporting you and your the only sane one here, while we are all pedo lovers and wrong headed? Just do yourself a favor, the worlds a better place when you live it with your head out you ***.

Other sites happen to like my views and I usually get top comments on Yahoo. I show some real life people I know some of the topics here in OT and what some of the people say here, they also think a lot of you are backwards and out there.

Laugh at me all you want, insult me all you want, I don't care. To me you are the one's who are not too bright and have your heads stuck up your asses. Too liberal for your own good and far too hateful of religious people.

To me some of the best users here are King Kong and LJ Basic, they posts common sense and don't back down from their views. I get the feeling that a lot of you are simply trying to "fit in" around here and not really being honest.

128836875490128188.jpg

Really, you keep digging your grave deeper. You blatantly disregard historical FACTS and defend your stance with your own flimsy, bias opinions. What started out has a respectful, dignified thread turned into a flame fest due to your blatant disregard for anything factual. You are truely a fine speciman, and here I was thinking you had some ounce of intelligence when this thread began and were merely trying to expand your knowledge.

Evidently, you already knew the answer and were just trying to get attention. Or maybe you just really don't get it. Either way, I'm done this is like argueing with a child.

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ChiliDragon

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#74 ChiliDragon
Member since 2006 • 8444 Posts
Laugh at me all you want, insult me all you want, I don't care. To me you are the one's who are not too bright and have your heads stuck up your asses. Too liberal for your own good and far too hateful of religious people.ShadowMoses900
I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that just because someone disagrees with you, they hate all religious people...
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67gt500

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#75 67gt500
Member since 2003 • 4627 Posts

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

I am not agruing about what was acceptable back then, I am saying it is wrong period and you seem to have a problem with that for some reason. OT GS is the only community where people mock and redicule me, and it's for the most asinine reasons.

There are people on here that support inces for crying out loud! If I am the lauging stock around here than I'm happy about it because at least I know I'm not backwards like a lot of people around here are.

Also OT is full of militant atheists who just hate religious people regardless. Luckily in the real world OT is the minority, which is why they are so vocal here. It's their only outlet on the internet.

ShadowMoses900

Exactly where in ANY of my posts did I say it was right by me? I said it was acceptable than, and its acceptable now in some cultures and parts of the world. You are ridiculed because, quite frankly and I'm sorry to be direct, you're kind of a not too bright on either understanding what people are saying or the bigger picture. You have embarassed yourself irreversibly. Do you notice that absolutely no one is supporting you and your the only sane one here, while we are all pedo lovers and wrong headed? Just do yourself a favor, the worlds a better place when you live it with your head out you ***.

Other sites happen to like my views and I usually get top comments on Yahoo. I show some real life people I know some of the topics here in OT and what some of the people say here, they also think a lot of you are backwards and out there.

Laugh at me all you want, insult me all you want, I don't care. To me you are the one's who are not too bright and have your heads stuck up your asses. Too liberal for your own good and far too hateful of religious people.

To me some of the best users here are King Kong and LJ Basic, they posts common sense and don't back down from their views. I get the feeling that a lot of you are simply trying to "fit in" around here and not really being honest.

Shadow, I quite enjoy your contributions around here and would be loathe to see anything dire happen to you account-wise so to speak but this attempt on your part to bash Islam with pedophilia innuendo directed at their Prophet under the thinly veiled guise of personal curiosity is just wrong -- especially after it has been brought to light that your own ancient Jewish ancestors were taking brides as young as 3... at that point its time to salvage what little credibility and dignity you have left and petition the mods to delete this vulgar, crass (not to mention utterly failed) attempt to besmear muslim users... thank you...

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nocoolnamejim

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#76 nocoolnamejim
Member since 2003 • 15136 Posts

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]I thought she was 6 years old in your previous post. Can we get a final answer Regis? PWSteal_Ldpinch

Married when she was 6, consummated when she was 9.

And, again, you're lumping past and present together. I made an argument that you can't hold Islam to a higher standard back in ancient era than you do Christianity. If you're going to excuse what Christians did back then as a product of the time period then you have to also excuse Islam. If you're going to prosecute Islam, then you have to do the same for Christianity. Fair play. Pick which time period you want to debate. Ancient times or modern times. nocoolnamejim
I didn't try to excuse anything. I only took issue with your attempt to rebuff OP by purporting to dig sh it up on his own religion. Unless his religion also explicitly allows child marriage, your tactic doesn't have any logical purpose except to curb debate.

Negative. I made a point that if you're going to hold a child bride against Muhammed and Islam, then you also need to hold things like death sentence for working on the Sabbath, slavery, etc. against TC's religion. His religion DID explicitly allow slavery for instance. In other words, I am objecting ONLY to the double standard, not defending ancient practices. Pretty much ALL religions have a fvckload to answer for if you're going to hold what they did centuries ago against them now. This point has still not actually been refuted. It's been dodged, ducked and avoided a number of times. But the underlying point that is that you can't give Christianity, Judaism, whatever a complete pass for ancient times norms and prosecute Islam 100% without being a hypocrite has yet to actually be refuted.
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Treflis

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#77 Treflis
Member since 2004 • 13757 Posts
After reading through the thread I can perfectly understand why no Muslim, at all has bothered answering you. Cause it'd be like talking to a wall. Still I'm going to give it a try so read carefully. Back in those days, It was common that girls as young as 7 even, were married to older men. Back then it was socially acceptable and not only in the Middle East, In Europe it was also common back in the days. Now let's get real here, if a man back then married a young "woman" I can guarantee you that within the first week, He'd have had his way with her regardless of what religious texts would say. If you watch National Geographic like you say then that should be well known to you. It was the norm back then, same as other things that are considered awful now. Heck my ancestors often went to England where they killed, plundered, raped and took slaves of all ages back to their villages, you can bet that very young girls were taken advantage off by them aswell both on the trip back and when they were back in the village. You say Pedophilia is wrong, I agree but we're basing this on our modern day society ethics and morals, Back then those Ethics and Morals were way different and considered normal. It's easy to point fingers nowadays at the past societies and be all " Those were horrible!" but back then things were different and you got to understand that.
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wis3boi

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#78 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]Laugh at me all you want, insult me all you want, I don't care. To me you are the one's who are not too bright and have your heads stuck up your asses. Too liberal for your own good and far too hateful of religious people.ChiliDragon
I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that just because someone disagrees with you, they hate all religious people...

I almost wanna call Poe's Law on Shadow these days but I think I already know the answer

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Zeviander

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#79 Zeviander
Member since 2011 • 9503 Posts
- it was a hadith, not the Qur'an - she was 9 when he f*cked her vaginally, 6 when he slid his dirty cock between her tiny thighs - Muslims will either tell you the hadith doesn't count, or it was "okay, because everyone did that back then" - either way, recognizing the modern relevance of such behavior for a man of "perfect morality" is what separates a Muslim from a non-Muslim
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nocoolnamejim

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#80 nocoolnamejim
Member since 2003 • 15136 Posts
[QUOTE="Zeviander"] - either way, recognizing the modern relevance of such behavior for a man of "perfect morality" is what separates a Muslim from a non-Muslim

THIS part I view as a valid point. It's pretty blatantly obvious that he (Muhammed) wasn't a man of "perfect morality" and, like the myth of "papal infallibility" or the Mormon faith's sudden "revelation" that it was okay to have black priests after they were facing a DOJ lawsuit in the 1970s, the idea that any mortal religious leaders are perfect has, to put it bluntly, been roundly discredited.
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cslayer211

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#81 cslayer211
Member since 2012 • 797 Posts

1340398966945.jpg

...

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hiphops_savior

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#82 hiphops_savior
Member since 2007 • 8535 Posts
What sort of god gives Muhammad a sudden revelation that permits him to marry his daughter in law? Certainly not the God I worship.
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67gt500

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#83 67gt500
Member since 2003 • 4627 Posts
[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="Zeviander"] - either way, recognizing the modern relevance of such behavior for a man of "perfect morality" is what separates a Muslim from a non-Muslim

THIS part I view as a valid point. It's pretty blatantly obvious that he (Muhammed) wasn't a man of "perfect morality" and, like the myth of "papal infallibility" or the Mormon faith's sudden "revelation" that it was okay to have black priests after they were facing a DOJ lawsuit in the 1970s, the idea that any mortal religious leaders are perfect has, to put it bluntly, been roundly discredited.

Sure, when talking about religious leaders its safe to say that regardless of religion, there have been very few examples of perfect morality -- actually make that no examples that fit that criteria... but what were talking about here are Prophets and during Muhammads lifetime it might have been perfecly 'moral' to consumate a marriage with a child just like ancient Jews were permitted to do... you cant apply todays version of whats 'moral' to customs that existed 1600 years (or more) ago,,, ultimately this thread is a offensive attempt to cast modern muslims in a a bad light because their Prophet engaged in behavior that was perfectly acceptable during his lifetime and not acceptable in ours.... I respectfully request that you delete this thread without delay -- please -- as I suspect that if a muslim user had made such a blatant attempt to openly offend the jewish users of this forum, it never would have gotten as far as this rubbish has...
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hiphops_savior

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#84 hiphops_savior
Member since 2007 • 8535 Posts
[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="Zeviander"] - either way, recognizing the modern relevance of such behavior for a man of "perfect morality" is what separates a Muslim from a non-Muslim

THIS part I view as a valid point. It's pretty blatantly obvious that he (Muhammed) wasn't a man of "perfect morality" and, like the myth of "papal infallibility" or the Mormon faith's sudden "revelation" that it was okay to have black priests after they were facing a DOJ lawsuit in the 1970s, the idea that any mortal religious leaders are perfect has, to put it bluntly, been roundly discredited.

I do agree on you about Papal Infallibility (which most Christians hardly follow), Muhammad's history, and while we're at it, Joseph Smith dying "guns blazing" or his fraud conviction in New York. I suspect where we would disagree on is what happens when a religious founder is also divine. I would look at their records of behavior first to detect whether they are truly divine.
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hiphops_savior

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#85 hiphops_savior
Member since 2007 • 8535 Posts
[QUOTE="67gt500"][QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="Zeviander"] - either way, recognizing the modern relevance of such behavior for a man of "perfect morality" is what separates a Muslim from a non-Muslim

THIS part I view as a valid point. It's pretty blatantly obvious that he (Muhammed) wasn't a man of "perfect morality" and, like the myth of "papal infallibility" or the Mormon faith's sudden "revelation" that it was okay to have black priests after they were facing a DOJ lawsuit in the 1970s, the idea that any mortal religious leaders are perfect has, to put it bluntly, been roundly discredited.

Sure, when talking about religious leaders its safe to say that regardless of religion, there have been very few examples of perfect morality -- actually make that no examples that fit that criteria... but what were talking about here are Prophets and during Muhammads lifetime it might have been perfecly 'moral' to consumate a marriage with a child just like ancient Jews were permitted to do... you cant apply todays version of whats 'moral' to customs that existed 1600 years (or more) ago,,, ultimately this thread is a offensive attempt to cast modern muslims in a a bad light because their Prophet engaged in behavior that was perfectly acceptable during his lifetime and not acceptable in ours.... I respectfully request that you delete this thread without delay -- please -- as I suspect that if a muslim user had made such a blatant attempt to openly offend the jewish users of this forum, it never would have gotten as far as this rubbish has...

Not even during Muhammad's time was any one ever permitted to marry their daughter in laws, a deed even the pagan Arabs considered incestuous. Most Ancient cultures married young because of the infant mortality rate, and even then, not with a nine year old to a man old enough to be her grandfather. I do agree that we should judge a culture in their context, however, we should also be aware that these cultures are developed by flawed humans.
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Meinhard1

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#86 Meinhard1
Member since 2010 • 6790 Posts
It sounds gross to us now, but back then it may have been culturally acceptable and not even a teensy bit gross.
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67gt500

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#87 67gt500
Member since 2003 • 4627 Posts
[QUOTE="hiphops_savior"][QUOTE="67gt500"][QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] THIS part I view as a valid point. It's pretty blatantly obvious that he (Muhammed) wasn't a man of "perfect morality" and, like the myth of "papal infallibility" or the Mormon faith's sudden "revelation" that it was okay to have black priests after they were facing a DOJ lawsuit in the 1970s, the idea that any mortal religious leaders are perfect has, to put it bluntly, been roundly discredited.

Sure, when talking about religious leaders its safe to say that regardless of religion, there have been very few examples of perfect morality -- actually make that no examples that fit that criteria... but what were talking about here are Prophets and during Muhammads lifetime it might have been perfecly 'moral' to consumate a marriage with a child just like ancient Jews were permitted to do... you cant apply todays version of whats 'moral' to customs that existed 1600 years (or more) ago,,, ultimately this thread is a offensive attempt to cast modern muslims in a a bad light because their Prophet engaged in behavior that was perfectly acceptable during his lifetime and not acceptable in ours.... I respectfully request that you delete this thread without delay -- please -- as I suspect that if a muslim user had made such a blatant attempt to openly offend the jewish users of this forum, it never would have gotten as far as this rubbish has...

Not even during Muhammad's time was any one ever permitted to marry their daughter in laws, a deed even the pagan Arabs considered incestuous. Most Ancient cultures married young because of the infant mortality rate, and even then, not with a nine year old to a man old enough to be her grandfather. I do agree that we should judge a culture in their context, however, we should also be aware that these cultures are developed by flawed humans.

My point is that this entire thread is a half-witted mean-spirited attempt to offend Muslim users and cast their Prophet in a bad light and it shouldnt be allowed to continue... imagine if an openly Muslim user started a "Moses was a murderer therefore Jews are Bad' thread -- i suspect the ban-hammer would be coming out before reaching anywhere near 5 pages of what is obviously obnoxious anti-islam trolling at best and thinly veiled bigotry at worst
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Socialist696

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#88 Socialist696
Member since 2012 • 558 Posts
OP was a moronic bigot in my opinion.
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Planeforger

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#90 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 19565 Posts

Has this already been raised? Pssh, whatever, posting.

It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!ShadowMoses900

Assuming that you are Christian, why would you find that strange?

I mean, what age did you think Mary was when your god impregnated her? Keep in mind that Jewish women back then were married at 12, and she had to be young enough to still be a virgin...

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the_plan_man

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#91 the_plan_man
Member since 2011 • 1664 Posts

Here's a different point of view you might find interesting: http://alqatrah.net/en/edara/index.php?id=91 This says that A'isha was not a child at the time of consumation or marriage, but seventeen, due to exaggerations given by the child. You might take this with a grain of salt, because this is an Islam apologist site, but still an interesting read...

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worlock77

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#92 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

Oh look, ShadowMoses being a bigoted, hypocritical idiot. What else is new?

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wis3boi

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#93 wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

Oh look, ShadowMoses being a bigoted, hypocritical idiot. What else is new?

worlock77

Someones even I stand back in awe in the fact that water is wet once in a while

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tenaka2

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#94 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

ShadowMoses900

Stop trying to impose todays values back in time 1600 years. The age of concent in some parts of the U.S. was 7 not so long ago.

This may help, keep in mind its a 1000 years afterwards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform#USA

In 1895, the age of consent in Delaware was 7,

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LordQuorthon

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#95 LordQuorthon
Member since 2008 • 5803 Posts

What you people don't seem to understand is that ShadowMoses is kind of like off-topic's LoosingEnds.

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CommanderpeaceC

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#96 CommanderpeaceC
Member since 2012 • 63 Posts

What I want to know is why did mohammad eat so much fish sticks?

PWSteal_Ldpinch
Fish? Theirs water in the desert?
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m0zart

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#97 m0zart
Member since 2003 • 11580 Posts

My honest question to Muslims: Is Camel good food?

Keeping kosher, I'll never know.

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worlock77

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#98 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

Fish? Theirs water in the desert?CommanderpeaceC

Arabia is surrounded by water on three side, and there are rivers and lakes in land there, so yes, there is water.

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CommanderpeaceC

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#99 CommanderpeaceC
Member since 2012 • 63 Posts
To be honest even back then 9 below is not justified by any texts and can do considerable harm. But mu already has tons of followers and whole countries that are 2300 years in the past, this, this wont get anywhere.
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CommanderpeaceC

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#100 CommanderpeaceC
Member since 2012 • 63 Posts

[QUOTE="CommanderpeaceC"]Fish? Theirs water in the desert?worlock77

Arabia is surrounded by water on three side, and there are rivers and lakes in land there, so yes, there is water.

1 country?