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#1 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

#2 Posted by MonsieurX (30461 posts) -
Why not?
#3 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

ShadowMoses900
Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.
#4 Posted by DroidPhysX (17089 posts) -
[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

Socialist696
Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.

Women as young as 12 are still married there....
#5 Posted by Fightingfan (38011 posts) -
Medicine is to blame. There's no such thing as "mature", it was simply you were middle aged at 20.
#6 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

Why not?MonsieurX

I hope your not being serious.....

#7 Posted by Fightingfan (38011 posts) -
[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

DroidPhysX
Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.

Women as young as 12 are still married there....

Could be a cultural thing. Just because Americans do something doesn't make it universally right.
#8 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -
[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

DroidPhysX
Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.

Women as young as 12 are still married there....

#9 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

Socialist696

Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

#10 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

ShadowMoses900

Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

You're not taking into account that the reason many Muslims most likely respond negatively to this subject is because you're not approaching it with an open mind and understanding of their culture. No one wrote a book on right and wrong by which all humans go by.
#11 Posted by lightleggy (16044 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

ShadowMoses900

Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

Back in those times, NO ONE gave a damn about age, pedophilia wasnt a taboo back then.
#12 Posted by nocoolnamejim (15136 posts) -
[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

DroidPhysX
Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.

Women as young as 12 are still married there....

Which is very wrong, but doesn't really invalidate the point. What was considered to be a "grown woman" of "child bearing age" has changed a bit over the centuries and it wasn't specific to any particular religion as it was common for women/girls to marry and "consummate" quite young during the time period in question. Muhommed marrying a girl that we would consider to be absolutely off-limits in modern times, was pretty much accepted standard procedure for the time period. The criticism of it still happening TODAY is way more valid IMO than it happening back then. Hell, just look at Shakespeare's most famous play. Juliet's mother is almost having a meltdown that her 14-15 year old daughter isn't married and had her first child in Act 1.
#13 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -
[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.lightleggy

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

Back in those times, NO ONE gave a damn about age, pedophilia wasnt a taboo back then.

Exactly. The Romans used to ram boys even when they were straight as a display of power and domination, and it wasan't considered wrong nor gay Humans over the years have just adopted more concrete and moral rules for society, while some have retained them in different parts of the world.
#14 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.Socialist696

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

You're not taking into account that the reason many Muslims most likely respond negatively to this subject is because you're not approaching it with an open mind and understanding of their culture. No one wrote a book on right and wrong by which all humans go by.

Pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It's not about "approaching it with an open mind", it's about knowing what is right and wrong regardless. None of the other people in the Torah, Bible, or Quran did such a thing and there is no evidence that people in that culture or time period practiced pedophilia either.

God wrote the Noahide laws on our souls and minds, it's conciounsce, people know that such an act is wrong regardless of where their from or what religion they follow.

#15 Posted by PWSteal_Ldpinch (1208 posts) -

What I want to know is why did mohammad eat so much fish sticks?

#16 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

ShadowMoses900

You're not taking into account that the reason many Muslims most likely respond negatively to this subject is because you're not approaching it with an open mind and understanding of their culture. No one wrote a book on right and wrong by which all humans go by.

Pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It's not about "approaching it with an open mind", it's about knowing what is right and wrong regardless. None of the other people in the Torah, Bible, or Quran did such a thing and there is no evidence that people in that culture or time period practiced pedophilia either.

God wrote the Noahide laws on our souls and minds, it's conciounsce, people know that such an act is wrong regardless of where their from or what religion they follow.

Pedophilia WASAN'T wrong in their eyes. Nor were alot of things. Like the Roman example I gave. Heres another. The Carthaginians used to sacrifice infants in mass to appeal their gods. It wasn't wrong to them. Young girls were sold into sex slavery at early ages too in Roman society. The Germanians used to eat their defeated enemies at times and crush their bones, blood and organs into stews. It wasan't wrong. Things change, but society was once barbaric in our eyes at least.
#17 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] You're not taking into account that the reason many Muslims most likely respond negatively to this subject is because you're not approaching it with an open mind and understanding of their culture. No one wrote a book on right and wrong by which all humans go by.Socialist696

Pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It's not about "approaching it with an open mind", it's about knowing what is right and wrong regardless. None of the other people in the Torah, Bible, or Quran did such a thing and there is no evidence that people in that culture or time period practiced pedophilia either.

God wrote the Noahide laws on our souls and minds, it's conciounsce, people know that such an act is wrong regardless of where their from or what religion they follow.

Pedophilia WASAN'T wrong in their eyes. Nor were alot of things. Like the Roman example I gave. Heres another. The Carthaginians used to sacrifice infants in mass to appeal their gods. It wasn't wrong to them. Young girls were sold into sex slavery at early ages too in Roman society. The Germanians used to eat their defeated enemies at times and crush their bones, blood and organs into stews. It wasan't wrong. Things change, but society was once barbaric in our eyes at least.

It was wrong, it doesn't matter if they think something is ok, it doesn't make it so.

#18 Posted by lightleggy (16044 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

ShadowMoses900

You're not taking into account that the reason many Muslims most likely respond negatively to this subject is because you're not approaching it with an open mind and understanding of their culture. No one wrote a book on right and wrong by which all humans go by.

Pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It's not about "approaching it with an open mind", it's about knowing what is right and wrong regardless. None of the other people in the Torah, Bible, or Quran did such a thing and there is no evidence that people in that culture or time period practiced pedophilia either.

God wrote the Noahide laws on our souls and minds, it's conciounsce, people know that such an act is wrong regardless of where their from or what religion they follow.

It's all subjective. im Christian, and I dont really remember any bible versicle that says pedophilia is wrong (not that I endorse pedophilia, just saying, the bible didnt even mentioned it)
#19 Posted by Socijalisticka (1621 posts) -

For every inquiry of yours, I can think of several questionable acts by Moses and friends.

#20 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It's not about "approaching it with an open mind", it's about knowing what is right and wrong regardless. None of the other people in the Torah, Bible, or Quran did such a thing and there is no evidence that people in that culture or time period practiced pedophilia either.

God wrote the Noahide laws on our souls and minds, it's conciounsce, people know that such an act is wrong regardless of where their from or what religion they follow.

ShadowMoses900

Pedophilia WASAN'T wrong in their eyes. Nor were alot of things. Like the Roman example I gave. Heres another. The Carthaginians used to sacrifice infants in mass to appeal their gods. It wasn't wrong to them. Young girls were sold into sex slavery at early ages too in Roman society. The Germanians used to eat their defeated enemies at times and crush their bones, blood and organs into stews. It wasan't wrong. Things change, but society was once barbaric in our eyes at least.

It was wrong, it doesn't matter if they think something is ok, it doesn't make it so.

It was wrong to those of society who feel its wrong TODAY, but that common stance of today wasn't the same stance 2000 and some years ago.
#21 Posted by nocoolnamejim (15136 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It's not about "approaching it with an open mind", it's about knowing what is right and wrong regardless. None of the other people in the Torah, Bible, or Quran did such a thing and there is no evidence that people in that culture or time period practiced pedophilia either.

God wrote the Noahide laws on our souls and minds, it's conciounsce, people know that such an act is wrong regardless of where their from or what religion they follow.

ShadowMoses900

Pedophilia WASAN'T wrong in their eyes. Nor were alot of things. Like the Roman example I gave. Heres another. The Carthaginians used to sacrifice infants in mass to appeal their gods. It wasn't wrong to them. Young girls were sold into sex slavery at early ages too in Roman society. The Germanians used to eat their defeated enemies at times and crush their bones, blood and organs into stews. It wasan't wrong. Things change, but society was once barbaric in our eyes at least.

It was wrong, it doesn't matter if they think something is ok, it doesn't make it so.

To be clear: This post is not defending Islam (particularly MODERN Islam that has some serious issues) so much as it is pointing out pretty blatant hypocrisy. Are you REALLY wanting to open the door on things that the Judeo-Christian religions have done "back in the day"? Have you read your Old Testament lately and seen the various practices that were specifically allowed in "ye olden times" that would be considered abominable today? Also, do you even realize how much you're setting up the "modern day pedophilia in the Catholic Church" counter-punch right now? Yes, I realize that you're a Jew and not a Catholic, particularly concerned with the subject of Israel, but a pissing match between Judeo-Christianism and Islam about various endorsed practices from way back when isn't really going to end well for anyone involved.
#22 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] You're not taking into account that the reason many Muslims most likely respond negatively to this subject is because you're not approaching it with an open mind and understanding of their culture. No one wrote a book on right and wrong by which all humans go by.lightleggy

Pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It's not about "approaching it with an open mind", it's about knowing what is right and wrong regardless. None of the other people in the Torah, Bible, or Quran did such a thing and there is no evidence that people in that culture or time period practiced pedophilia either.

God wrote the Noahide laws on our souls and minds, it's conciounsce, people know that such an act is wrong regardless of where their from or what religion they follow.

It's all subjective. im Christian, and I dont really remember any bible versicle that says pedophilia is wrong (not that I endorse pedophilia, just saying, the bible didnt even mentioned it)

No it's not subjective. Murder is wrong, period. Rape is wrong, period. And pedophilia is wrong, period.

If you believe it is subjective then you are pretty much saying that there is nothing truly wrong in the world, and if you are a Christian you know that that's not true.

#23 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It's not about "approaching it with an open mind", it's about knowing what is right and wrong regardless. None of the other people in the Torah, Bible, or Quran did such a thing and there is no evidence that people in that culture or time period practiced pedophilia either.

God wrote the Noahide laws on our souls and minds, it's conciounsce, people know that such an act is wrong regardless of where their from or what religion they follow.

ShadowMoses900

It's all subjective. im Christian, and I dont really remember any bible versicle that says pedophilia is wrong (not that I endorse pedophilia, just saying, the bible didnt even mentioned it)

No it's not subjective. Murder is wrong, period. Rape is wrong, period. And pedophilia is wrong, period.

If you believe it is subjective then you are pretty much saying that there is nothing truly wrong in the world, and if you are a Christian you know that that's not true.

How many Muslims died as a result of Christendoms wars in the East during the Crusades? Christianity is a poor defense for right and wrong.....and you asked a honest question on Muslims, sorry the honest answers aren't what you want to hear.
#24 Posted by Vickman178 (1035 posts) -

Apparently it was not his choice or his physical desires but it was "divine inspiration." I looked into more an apparently he married her when she was 6 and consumated it when she was 9. Seems a little fishy even if men did marry younger girls in that time period.

He was also married to a woman that was 15 years older then him before this soo....

#25 Posted by Socijalisticka (1621 posts) -

No it's not subjective. Murder is wrong, period. Rape is wrong, period. And pedophilia is wrong, period.

ShadowMoses900

I can stand by this. Absolute morality, amen.

#26 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] Pedophilia WASAN'T wrong in their eyes. Nor were alot of things. Like the Roman example I gave. Heres another. The Carthaginians used to sacrifice infants in mass to appeal their gods. It wasn't wrong to them. Young girls were sold into sex slavery at early ages too in Roman society. The Germanians used to eat their defeated enemies at times and crush their bones, blood and organs into stews. It wasan't wrong. Things change, but society was once barbaric in our eyes at least.nocoolnamejim

It was wrong, it doesn't matter if they think something is ok, it doesn't make it so.

To be clear: This post is not defending Islam (particularly MODERN Islam that has some serious issues) so much as it is pointing out pretty blatant hypocrisy. Are you REALLY wanting to open the door on things that the Judeo-Christian religions have done "back in the day"? Have you read your Old Testament lately and seen the various practices that were specifically allowed in "ye olden times" that would be considered abominable today? Also, do you even realize how much you're setting up the "modern day pedophilia in the Catholic Church" counter-punch right now? Yes, I realize that you're a Jew and not a Catholic, particularly concerned with the subject of Israel, but a pissing match between Judeo-Christianism and Islam about various endorsed practices from way back when isn't really going to end well for anyone involved.

Of course there are things in The Torah that we would not do today. Killing gays is wrong, so is stoning people to death for working on Shabbat. But at that time the context was different, didn't make it right mind you, but it was all they understood in their eyes.

I am not saying Islam is bad, I believe it is a legit faith. But I fail to see the context of what Muhammed did with a child, it's wrong no matter how one tries to spin it. I'm not attacking Islam or looking for a pissing contest, I was just asking Muslims to explain it to me because I fail to see the good in such an act.

I initially asked this because I think I may have misinterpeted the text, but what if I didn't? That would make Muhammed a child rapist.

#27 Posted by DaJuicyMan (3517 posts) -

Ok we get it, Islam is evil and Jewz rock.

#28 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="lightleggy"] It's all subjective. im Christian, and I dont really remember any bible versicle that says pedophilia is wrong (not that I endorse pedophilia, just saying, the bible didnt even mentioned it)Socialist696

No it's not subjective. Murder is wrong, period. Rape is wrong, period. And pedophilia is wrong, period.

If you believe it is subjective then you are pretty much saying that there is nothing truly wrong in the world, and if you are a Christian you know that that's not true.

How many Muslims died as a result of Christendoms wars in the East during the Crusades? Christianity is a poor defense for right and wrong.....and you asked a honest question on Muslims, sorry the honest answers aren't what you want to hear.

That is because people miss the message, it's the same in all them. Love your neighbor as you love yourself and woship and honor God, that's the message. Do the best you can and know God loves you and you will earn his favor and go to Olam Haba (heaven). The wicked will not earn God's favor.

That is the key message. Bad things happen under religions because people are corrupt and use it to hurt others. But religion can also inspire and help people as well.

#29 Posted by nocoolnamejim (15136 posts) -

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

It was wrong, it doesn't matter if they think something is ok, it doesn't make it so.

ShadowMoses900

To be clear: This post is not defending Islam (particularly MODERN Islam that has some serious issues) so much as it is pointing out pretty blatant hypocrisy. Are you REALLY wanting to open the door on things that the Judeo-Christian religions have done "back in the day"? Have you read your Old Testament lately and seen the various practices that were specifically allowed in "ye olden times" that would be considered abominable today? Also, do you even realize how much you're setting up the "modern day pedophilia in the Catholic Church" counter-punch right now? Yes, I realize that you're a Jew and not a Catholic, particularly concerned with the subject of Israel, but a pissing match between Judeo-Christianism and Islam about various endorsed practices from way back when isn't really going to end well for anyone involved.

Of course there are things in The Torah that we would not do today. Killing gays is wrong, so is stoning people to death for working on Shabbat. But at that time the context was different, didn't make it right mind you, but it was all they understood in their eyes.

I am not saying Islam is bad, I believe it is a legit faith. But I fail to see the context of what Muhammed did with a child, it's wrong no matter how one tries to spin it. I'm not attacking Islam or looking for a pissing contest, I was just asking Muslims to explain it to me because I fail to see the good in such an act.

I initially asked this because I think I may have misinterpeted the text, but what if I didn't? That would make Muhammed a child rapist.

You just went from excusing the Judeo-Christian religions and some of the things that were done back then as being incredibly wrong by today's standards with a "context/times were different" defense by saying that we now know that it's wrong to have done those things to NOT defending the other religion. Which is pretty much what that Socialist(Numbers) dude is arguing. If that argument is valid for defending Judaism, then it's valid for defending Islam back then. Again, my point is that you can't simultaneously give your religion a complete pass for things that were "standard operating procedure" for the time period they're based in while NOT giving a pass to the religion you've got a beef with. Hence, why I'm waiving the "hypocrisy" flag. You're holding Islam's behavior back then to a higher standard than your own religions.
#30 Posted by lightleggy (16044 posts) -

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Pedophilia is wrong no matter what. It's not about "approaching it with an open mind", it's about knowing what is right and wrong regardless. None of the other people in the Torah, Bible, or Quran did such a thing and there is no evidence that people in that culture or time period practiced pedophilia either.

God wrote the Noahide laws on our souls and minds, it's conciounsce, people know that such an act is wrong regardless of where their from or what religion they follow.

ShadowMoses900

It's all subjective. im Christian, and I dont really remember any bible versicle that says pedophilia is wrong (not that I endorse pedophilia, just saying, the bible didnt even mentioned it)

No it's not subjective. Murder is wrong, period. Rape is wrong, period. And pedophilia is wrong, period.

If you believe it is subjective then you are pretty much saying that there is nothing truly wrong in the world, and if you are a Christian you know that that's not true.

You are a hypocrite then, unless you are cool with stuff that was done in the old testament that is considered horrible by today's standards. I know wonder what will you say about this...will you become like those muslims you mentioned in the first post and just ignore it or give some excuse?
#31 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] To be clear: This post is not defending Islam (particularly MODERN Islam that has some serious issues) so much as it is pointing out pretty blatant hypocrisy. Are you REALLY wanting to open the door on things that the Judeo-Christian religions have done "back in the day"? Have you read your Old Testament lately and seen the various practices that were specifically allowed in "ye olden times" that would be considered abominable today? Also, do you even realize how much you're setting up the "modern day pedophilia in the Catholic Church" counter-punch right now? Yes, I realize that you're a Jew and not a Catholic, particularly concerned with the subject of Israel, but a pissing match between Judeo-Christianism and Islam about various endorsed practices from way back when isn't really going to end well for anyone involved. nocoolnamejim

Of course there are things in The Torah that we would not do today. Killing gays is wrong, so is stoning people to death for working on Shabbat. But at that time the context was different, didn't make it right mind you, but it was all they understood in their eyes.

I am not saying Islam is bad, I believe it is a legit faith. But I fail to see the context of what Muhammed did with a child, it's wrong no matter how one tries to spin it. I'm not attacking Islam or looking for a pissing contest, I was just asking Muslims to explain it to me because I fail to see the good in such an act.

I initially asked this because I think I may have misinterpeted the text, but what if I didn't? That would make Muhammed a child rapist.

You just went from defending the Judeo-Christian religions and some of the things that were done thing as being incredibly wrong by today's standards with a "context/times were different" defense by saying that we now know that it's wrong to have done those things by modern standards of morality. Which is pretty much what that Socialist(Numbers) dude is arguing. If that argument is valid for defending Judaism, then it's valid for defending Islam back then. Again, my point is that you can't simultaneously give your religion a complete pass for things that were "standard operating procedure" for the time period they're based in while NOT giving a pass to the religion you've got a beef with. Hence, why I'm waiving the "hypocrisy" flag. You're holding Islam's behavior back then to a higher standard than your own religions.

I can see why one would say it is hypocrytical, but at no point is there any context for pedophilia, it's wrong period. Even in that time period it was considered wrong, it was not common practice in the Arab world, child marriages were but not pedophilia. The child often waited until an older age before they consemated their marriage.

I saw a documentary about it on National Geographic.

#32 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

No it's not subjective. Murder is wrong, period. Rape is wrong, period. And pedophilia is wrong, period.

If you believe it is subjective then you are pretty much saying that there is nothing truly wrong in the world, and if you are a Christian you know that that's not true.

ShadowMoses900

How many Muslims died as a result of Christendoms wars in the East during the Crusades? Christianity is a poor defense for right and wrong.....and you asked a honest question on Muslims, sorry the honest answers aren't what you want to hear.

That is because people miss the message, it's the same in all them. Love your neighbor as you love yourself and woship and honor God, that's the message. Do the best you can and know God loves you and you will earn his favor and go to Olam Haba (heaven). The wicked will not earn God's favor.

That is the key message. Bad things happen under religions because people are corrupt and use it to hurt others. But religion can also inspire and help people as well.

So whos getting hurt in a marriage between two willing individuals of different age levels of a vast difference...
#33 Posted by NEWMAHAY (3760 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

ShadowMoses900

Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

Christians were getting married at the age of 12-14 back less than 200 years ago. It was legal to get marriage at the age of 13 in the US at one point.

I have friends whose grandparents got married at the age of 13 so this was all relatively recent.

I am sure prior to the invention of marriage, early humans were breeding at a young age considering our life span at one point was extremely young (relative to our age).

Times have changed, it isn't socially acceptable anymore. Society in general dictates it. I sure it wasn't taboo then, because it was acceptable back then.

#34 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] How many Muslims died as a result of Christendoms wars in the East during the Crusades? Christianity is a poor defense for right and wrong.....and you asked a honest question on Muslims, sorry the honest answers aren't what you want to hear.Socialist696

That is because people miss the message, it's the same in all them. Love your neighbor as you love yourself and woship and honor God, that's the message. Do the best you can and know God loves you and you will earn his favor and go to Olam Haba (heaven). The wicked will not earn God's favor.

That is the key message. Bad things happen under religions because people are corrupt and use it to hurt others. But religion can also inspire and help people as well.

So whos getting hurt in a marriage between two willing individuals of different age levels of a vast difference...

In the case of Muhammed, the child is clearly being hurt. This is not debatable.

#35 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.NEWMAHAY

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

Christians were getting married at the age of 12-14 back less than 200 years ago. It was legal to get marriage at the age of 13 in the US at one point.

I have friends whose grandparents got married at the age of 13 so this was all relatively recent.

I am sure prior to the invention of marriage, early humans were breeding at a young age considering our life span at one point was extremely young (relative to our age).

Times have changed, it isn't socially acceptable anymore. Society in general dictates it. I sure it wasn't taboo then, because it was acceptable back then.

Just because something is socially acceptedable at a time does not make it right. Slavery was considered ok at one time as well, it still didn't make it right.

#36 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -

[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

That is because people miss the message, it's the same in all them. Love your neighbor as you love yourself and woship and honor God, that's the message. Do the best you can and know God loves you and you will earn his favor and go to Olam Haba (heaven). The wicked will not earn God's favor.

That is the key message. Bad things happen under religions because people are corrupt and use it to hurt others. But religion can also inspire and help people as well.

ShadowMoses900

So whos getting hurt in a marriage between two willing individuals of different age levels of a vast difference...

In the case of Muhammed, the child is clearly being hurt. This is not debatable.

How? Be detailed because I'm not familiar with the story as much as you clearly.
#37 Posted by NEWMAHAY (3760 posts) -

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

ShadowMoses900

Christians were getting married at the age of 12-14 back less than 200 years ago. It was legal to get marriage at the age of 13 in the US at one point.

I have friends whose grandparents got married at the age of 13 so this was all relatively recent.

I am sure prior to the invention of marriage, early humans were breeding at a young age considering our life span at one point was extremely young (relative to our age).

Times have changed, it isn't socially acceptable anymore. Society in general dictates it. I sure it wasn't taboo then, because it was acceptable back then.

Just because something is socially acceptedable at a time does not make it right. Slavery was considered ok at one time as well, it still didn't make it right.

Slavery was okay in the bible.

And people who get married at 13 and society didnt think it was wrong then... nobody did then. Its what people did. Your conclusion in that doesn't make any sense because if you lived in the time period, you wouldn't think it was wrong at all because at the time it wasn't wrong...

Only now do we consider it wrong because its dictated by the times and society we live in. Do you do things and worry about what people 300+ years will think is right/wrong?

#38 Posted by nocoolnamejim (15136 posts) -

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Of course there are things in The Torah that we would not do today. Killing gays is wrong, so is stoning people to death for working on Shabbat. But at that time the context was different, didn't make it right mind you, but it was all they understood in their eyes.

I am not saying Islam is bad, I believe it is a legit faith. But I fail to see the context of what Muhammed did with a child, it's wrong no matter how one tries to spin it. I'm not attacking Islam or looking for a pissing contest, I was just asking Muslims to explain it to me because I fail to see the good in such an act.

I initially asked this because I think I may have misinterpeted the text, but what if I didn't? That would make Muhammed a child rapist.

ShadowMoses900

You just went from defending the Judeo-Christian religions and some of the things that were done thing as being incredibly wrong by today's standards with a "context/times were different" defense by saying that we now know that it's wrong to have done those things by modern standards of morality. Which is pretty much what that Socialist(Numbers) dude is arguing. If that argument is valid for defending Judaism, then it's valid for defending Islam back then. Again, my point is that you can't simultaneously give your religion a complete pass for things that were "standard operating procedure" for the time period they're based in while NOT giving a pass to the religion you've got a beef with. Hence, why I'm waiving the "hypocrisy" flag. You're holding Islam's behavior back then to a higher standard than your own religions.

I can see why one would say it is hypocrytical, but at no point is there any context for pedophilia, it's wrong period. Even in that time period it was considered wrong, it was not common practice in the Arab world, child marriages were but not pedophilia. The child often waited until an older age before they consemated their marriage.

I saw a documentary about it on National Geographic.

One might argue that slavery SHOULD be considered wrong by any time period, but it was widely accepted as permissible for centuries and explicitly allowed in the Bible. The age of what was considered to be a "child" has changed a lot over the centuries based on life expectancy. When the average life expectancy is 30 years old, what we consider to be a "woman of child bearing age" is a little different than when the life expectancy is 75. I do think this is one issue where you've got some blinders on because you know darn well that the Judeo-Christian churches allowed and even outright endorsed things that we'd consider to be non-starters today. Sometimes they had reasonable explanations for why. (For example, the Christian churches had no problem officiating marriages of what we'd today consider to be children because of life expectancy and what was the societal accepted definition of a mature woman) Other times it's hard to explain why they ever justified certain things (killing someone who worked on the Sabbath). My point is, if you're going to make the "certain things should have been considered wrong regardless of time period" argument, then you can't excuse your side from the results of having that viewpoint.
#39 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Socialist696"] So whos getting hurt in a marriage between two willing individuals of different age levels of a vast difference...Socialist696

In the case of Muhammed, the child is clearly being hurt. This is not debatable.

How? Be detailed because I'm not familiar with the story as much as you clearly.

Muhammed had a "divine intervention" or a "dream" and he asked his friend/follower if he would give his daughter to him to be his wife. He agreed and she was 6 when they married, he consemated (had intercourse) his marriage with her when she was 9 before her period.

That is wrong. Really it's only OT where I see people that try to pass this kind of stuff off and defend it, other places like Yahoo answers is more sensible.

#40 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -
[QUOTE="Socialist696"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Hi, I like to study various religions that are different from my own and while I feel that all the main Abrahamic faiths are legit, there is this part about Islam that really bothers me. It has to do with Muhammed and his child marriage to Aisha, I have read it in the Quran and it says he even consemated his marriage with her while she was still a child, now that is just sick!

I have asked a few Muslims on my college campus about this and they all ignore me completely, they told me "oh your a Jew you don't understand" or "girls matured younger back then" the former is just silly and the latter is just rediculously false. Now I may not be a Muslim so I admit I could be misinterpeting things, but from my understanding it sounded like Muhammed raped a little kid.

I don't want to make anyone upset, it's just a question that I would like an honest answer to. I don't understand it, why would a person who claims to follow God do such a sick thing?

DroidPhysX
Do your research and it answers itself...back than women married as young as 12. People living than were considered old in their 30s because life expectancy was so short without fancy modern medical facilities or healthcare.

Women as young as 12 are still married there....

Twelve year old females are considered women and not girls now? I must be in the wrong universe.
#41 Posted by ChiliDragon (8467 posts) -
I can see why one would say it is hypocrytical, but at no point is there any context for pedophilia, it's wrong period. Even in that time period it was considered wrong, it was not common practice in the Arab world, child marriages were but not pedophilia. The child often waited until an older age before they consemated their marriage.ShadowMoses900
If you're going to insist on using the word "consummated" in your posts, would you please learn to spell it right?
#42 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="lightleggy"] Christians were getting married at the age of 12-14 back less than 200 years ago. It was legal to get marriage at the age of 13 in the US at one point.

I have friends whose grandparents got married at the age of 13 so this was all relatively recent.

I am sure prior to the invention of marriage, early humans were breeding at a young age considering our life span at one point was extremely young (relative to our age).

Times have changed, it isn't socially acceptable anymore. Society in general dictates it. I sure it wasn't taboo then, because it was acceptable back then.

NEWMAHAY

Just because something is socially acceptedable at a time does not make it right. Slavery was considered ok at one time as well, it still didn't make it right.

It was right in the bible.

And people who get married at 13 and society didnt think it was wrong then... nobody did then. Its what people did. Your conclusion in that doesn't make any sense because if you lived in the time period, you wouldn't think it was wrong at all. Only now do we consider it wrong because its dictated by the times and society we live in.

Slavery in the Bible is not anywhere close to what you think of Slavery I can assure you. In ancient Jewish culture "Slaver" was more like indenturned servitude, you coud not physically harm them and it was only temporary, only up to a maximum of 7 years.

And the "owner" was responsible for his "slaves" well being, along with any family he might have. You only became a slave if you commited a crime against that person or were poor and wanted to learn a trade or skill.

I believe the things were wrong period, just that the people at that time didn't know any better and were doing their best to please God, in the only way they understood at that time. It still doesn't make it right.

#43 Posted by PWSteal_Ldpinch (1208 posts) -

Hey jim how do you feel about muhammad's marriage to a 6-year-old being used justify child brides in modern muslim countries? For example, in drafting the Egyptian constitution, "clauses specifically demanding that women be protected from violence and sex trafficking were dropped because Islamists feared it would conflict with their desire to allow child brides." Can you draw a parallel between Muhammad and other religious figures? Do you maintain that criticism of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha is hypocritical since all religions are equally culpable?


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/01/15578733-egyptians-fear-decades-of-muslim-brotherhood-rule-warn-morsi-is-no-friend-to-us?lite

#44 Posted by lightleggy (16044 posts) -

[QUOTE="NEWMAHAY"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Well it says before she went through her menstral cycle, many put her age at around 9 at the very most. That is just wrong no matter how one spins it in my eyes. I know in ancient Jewish culture you became an adult at 13 and 12 (which is why a Bar Mitzvah takes place at 13) but even they didn't practice child marriages or rape. That was forbidden.

ShadowMoses900

Christians were getting married at the age of 12-14 back less than 200 years ago. It was legal to get marriage at the age of 13 in the US at one point.

I have friends whose grandparents got married at the age of 13 so this was all relatively recent.

I am sure prior to the invention of marriage, early humans were breeding at a young age considering our life span at one point was extremely young (relative to our age).

Times have changed, it isn't socially acceptable anymore. Society in general dictates it. I sure it wasn't taboo then, because it was acceptable back then.

Just because something is socially acceptedable at a time does not make it right. Slavery was considered ok at one time as well, it still didn't make it right.

You just excused everything in the new testament by saying "its in context" yet in this post you just said its wrong no matter what. hypocrite much?
#45 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]I can see why one would say it is hypocrytical, but at no point is there any context for pedophilia, it's wrong period. Even in that time period it was considered wrong, it was not common practice in the Arab world, child marriages were but not pedophilia. The child often waited until an older age before they consemated their marriage.ChiliDragon
If you're going to insist on using the word "consummated" in your posts, would you please learn to spell it right?

Ok I mispelt a word, big deal. No reason to be such a grammar nazi about it.

That's basically just an attempt to try to discredit an argument that you can't win, you attack the grammar not the point. It's a fallacy.

#46 Posted by Socialist696 (572 posts) -

[QUOTE="NEWMAHAY"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Just because something is socially acceptedable at a time does not make it right. Slavery was considered ok at one time as well, it still didn't make it right.

ShadowMoses900

It was right in the bible.

And people who get married at 13 and society didnt think it was wrong then... nobody did then. Its what people did. Your conclusion in that doesn't make any sense because if you lived in the time period, you wouldn't think it was wrong at all. Only now do we consider it wrong because its dictated by the times and society we live in.

Slavery in the Bible is not anywhere close to what you think of Slavery I can assure you. In ancient Jewish culture "Slaver" was more like indenturned servitude, you coud not physically harm them and it was only temporary, only up to a maximum of 7 years.

And the "owner" was responsible for his "slaves" well being, along with any family he might have. You only became a slave if you commited a crime against that person or were poor and wanted to learn a trade or skill.

I believe the things were wrong period, just that the people at that time didn't know any better and were doing their best to please God, in the only way they understood at that time. It still doesn't make it right.

ShadowMoses33....I've been trying to avoid being blunt for the duration of this whole thread but I fear I must inform you for the sake of your humility. Before you bring up religion, history, and morality please broaden your understanding of all those aspects, the contrast between then and now, and possibly have a more open mind (not a closed one that defends your religion insistently and flogs others for "wrong-doings"). So, once again, for the last time, the marriage was perfectly fine and not wrong by any means back than. And here is a little information on Christianity that I don't know if you know or not. Its about killings and murder, one the Catholic churches favorites back in the day. http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html I don't think I need to cite more sources for each of your defenses on Jewish or Christan religions, considering all the pedophilia, murders, rapes and exploitation both have commited as well, just as I don't need to prove Islam is wrong or right because it speaks for itself like Judaism and Christianity. Each religion does wrong, accept it for what it is please because this thread was answered on page one and drags on only because you insist on not* accepting relevant, historically accurate responses.

#47 Posted by NEWMAHAY (3760 posts) -

[QUOTE="NEWMAHAY"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Just because something is socially acceptedable at a time does not make it right. Slavery was considered ok at one time as well, it still didn't make it right.

ShadowMoses900

It was right in the bible.

And people who get married at 13 and society didnt think it was wrong then... nobody did then. Its what people did. Your conclusion in that doesn't make any sense because if you lived in the time period, you wouldn't think it was wrong at all. Only now do we consider it wrong because its dictated by the times and society we live in.

Slavery in the Bible is not anywhere close to what you think of Slavery I can assure you. In ancient Jewish culture "Slaver" was more like indenturned servitude, you coud not physically harm them and it was only temporary, only up to a maximum of 7 years.

And the "owner" was responsible for his "slaves" well being, along with any family he might have. You only became a slave if you commited a crime against that person or were poor and wanted to learn a trade or skill.

I believe the things were wrong period, just that the people at that time didn't know any better and were doing their best to please God, in the only way they understood at that time. It still doesn't make it right.

Slavery is slavery whether its for life or not. If someone was a slave for 2 years, he was still a slave for two years. The bible discussed beating of slaves. So where did God say at any point that getting married at 13 was wrong? And How did marriage at 13 become wrong if it wasn't for society changes? If society never changed it would be right. What if video games comes "wrong" in 200 years? I don't think its wrong now. If it does in 200 years, does make my actions now wrong? I see nothing wrong with it. I never will. I am sure that was the case for 100,000 years humans were around for marriage and breeding at 13. I mean when the life span of humans were so young and survival rates so low, 50,000+ years ago. When would be the right time to breed other than the early teenage years when life span was so damn short. Please elaborate about how wrong it was then in prehistoric human times or why human anatomy allows you to be pregnant at 13?
#48 Posted by TrueAmerican007 (700 posts) -
Ignore the TC everyone, he's just butthurt that the PS3 is in last place.
#49 Posted by nocoolnamejim (15136 posts) -

Hey jim how do you feel about muhammad's marriage to a 6-year-old being used justify child brides in modern muslim countries? For example, in drafting the Egyptian constitution, "clauses specifically demanding that women be protected from violence and sex trafficking were dropped because Islamists feared it would conflict with their desire to allow child brides." Can you draw a parallel between Muhammad and other religious figures? Do you maintain that criticism of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha is hypocritical since all religions are equally culpable?


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/01/15578733-egyptians-fear-decades-of-muslim-brotherhood-rule-warn-morsi-is-no-friend-to-us?lite

PWSteal_Ldpinch
I would say that you're lumping together two separate issues in an attempt to create a strawman argument tying me to a position I haven't taken and then batting it down. In my very first post in this thread I said I was arguing against hypocrisy by excusing things from one religion while holding the other to modern day standards and NOT defending Islam, specifically modern day Islam. The point I was arguing was narrow. Muhammad's bride (presented as 12 years old in this thread...would like to see documentation of 6 years old as I'm no Islam expert) shouldn't be considered an indictment of the entire religion unless you're also going to hold other religions to the exact same standard. I'd also raise my eyebrows on whether the article you've presented as evidence is anywhere near an unbiased one. Example: [quote="Your article"] Muslim Brotherhood's calculated rise to power Looking back now, it all seems so obvious, yet many Egyptians refused to see it coming. In fact, many of the secular revolutionaries backed the Brotherhood, arguing they were better allies than the hated military. The Brotherhood played its cards well. The Brotherhood was late to join the anti-Mubarak revolts in 2011. When students and liberals initially occupied Tahrir Square, it looked like it might be a passing thing. The Brotherhood either didn't appreciate its significance, or wanted to wait to see who was winning. I remember watching the Brothers march into the square. They arrived in a large group of perhaps five hundred. Nearly all were men. Many had beards. Most were dressed in poorly cut dark suits. They occupied a corner of Tahrir near a Kentucky Fried Chicken. They came with microphones and wood to build a platform. The other protesters in the square seemed happy to have the support of the new arrivals. Egypt's Morsi, top judges compromise to defuse soaring tensions over decree The protests continued to grow. Labor unions went on strike. The military enacted a coup against Mubarak. President Obama withdrew his support for Washington's long-time Arab friend. And Mubarak the president was no more. The Brotherhood first said it wouldn't seek the new presidency at all. It promised to exist solely as an influential member of civil society. Back then, many Egyptians feared the Brotherhood. It was a semi-secret group. It had a small office in a Cairo apartment building with a sign on the door the size of an index card. Mubarak-era officials had often described the Brotherhood as a group of terrorists. One security official I know called the Brotherhood the most dangerous group in the world. But in the heady 1960s-like days after Mubarak's resignation, the Brotherhood's bad reputation only seemed to give the group more credibility. They'd been oppressed by the man. It was a new day. Everyone, it appeared, deserved a new beginning. The Brotherhood went to work. It organized its considerable finances. It built a big new headquarters with far bigger signs on the doors. It sent its representatives around the world, especially to Washington, on a charm offensive. We've been oppressed, they claimed. We were slandered by a tyrant. We're not what you've heard. We can unite the Sunni world against Iran. We can help bring Israeli-Palestinian peace. There were many promises of a great future. Even then, the Brotherhood's focus on the constitution was clear. The Brotherhood insisted the constitution be drafted only after a new president was elected. The military was overseeing a transition back then. The Brotherhood argued that the military couldn't be trusted to oversee the creation of such an impo

#50 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="NEWMAHAY"] It was right in the bible.

And people who get married at 13 and society didnt think it was wrong then... nobody did then. Its what people did. Your conclusion in that doesn't make any sense because if you lived in the time period, you wouldn't think it was wrong at all. Only now do we consider it wrong because its dictated by the times and society we live in.

Socialist696

Slavery in the Bible is not anywhere close to what you think of Slavery I can assure you. In ancient Jewish culture "Slaver" was more like indenturned servitude, you coud not physically harm them and it was only temporary, only up to a maximum of 7 years.

And the "owner" was responsible for his "slaves" well being, along with any family he might have. You only became a slave if you commited a crime against that person or were poor and wanted to learn a trade or skill.

I believe the things were wrong period, just that the people at that time didn't know any better and were doing their best to please God, in the only way they understood at that time. It still doesn't make it right.

ShadowMoses33....I've been trying to avoid being blunt for the duration of this whole thread but I fear I must inform you for the sake of your humility. Before you bring up religion, history, and morality please broaden your understanding of all those aspects, the contrast between then and now, and possibly have a more open mind (not a closed one that defends your religion insistently and flogs others for "wrong-doings"). So, once again, for the last time, the marriage was perfectly fine and not wrong by any means back than. And here is a little information on Christianity that I don't know if you know or not. Its about killings and murder, one the Catholic churches favorites back in the day. http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html I don't think I need to cite more sources for each of your defenses on Jewish or Christan religions, considering all the pedophilia, murders, rapes and exploitation both have commited as well, just as I don't need to prove Islam is wrong or right because it speaks for itself like Judaism and Christianity. Each religion does wrong, accept it for what it is please because this thread was answered on page one and drags on only because you insist on accepting relevant, historically accurate responses.

It was not answered on page 1, I want to know why Muhammed did what he did in that act and how can one justify it. I know each religion has done some bad, they have also done some good, but no one has explained the context to me at all.

But no matter I will leave this thread since no one here is helfpul (OT being OT as usual), I found a Muslim website that gives better insight and it even admits what Muhammed did was wrong even at that time.

TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Muhammad's Sex Life