Michael Brown shooting.

Because that is the situation at hand? Cop's engage suspects alone all day every day across the nation...what makes this situation any different? The whole freaking riots/media coverage/etc is all about the white cop that shot the back man. It's all about the race relations in the town with white cops/council members and the black community. The whole outrage is basically white cop shoots black man. Get lost with your phony race card bull-crap and pretend outrage.

You shouldn't engage me in discussion that's for sure, but not because of that. You shouldn't because I have been systematically destroying your feeble arguments for pages now.

They weren't difficult to handle....

@Renevent42: "Because that is the situation at hand? Cop's engage suspects alone all day every day across the nation...what makes this situation any different? The whole freaking riots/media coverage/etc is all about the white cop that shot the back man. It's all about the race relations in the town with white cops/council members and the black community. The whole outrage is basically white cop shoots black man. Get lost with your phony race card bull-crap and pretend outrage."

What a load of bull, I never addressed the racial side of things so why bring it to our discussion of the scenario, like I said I don't care what race either party is, I look at it as one cop two suspects, even though Brown was the main aggressor Dorian could have still posed a threat. Wilson was wrong not to get some help on the way Brown was obviously to big for Wilson to handle. Just because the whole shooting incident has racial tensions rising, doesn't mean you have to bring race into every point or opinion raised from the situation.

"You shouldn't engage me in discussion that's for sure, but not because of that. You shouldn't because I have been systematically destroying your feeble arguments for pages now."

You haven't destroyed my arguments at all, you have given your one sided opinion that's it as I have given my opinion which is not one sided, but you haven't destroyed my arguments with any evidence, so don't celebrate too prematurely.

Also based on Josie's(Wilson's friend) account of what Wilson said happened he never mentioned calling for backup;

"Josie said when he realized the description on the police radio matched that of Brown, he moved his car closer to the two teens to get out of the vehicle. It was then, Josie said, Brown allegedly shoved Wilson back into the car and punched him in the face."

No mention of calling for back up he went straight in for the arrest.

http://m.ibtimes.com/ferguson-shooting-witness-shares-officer-darren-wilson-version-michael-brown-shooting-1661896

You never did? You are the one who is full of crap. Just stop the phony outrage already...it's ridiculous. The racial aspect of this case is a HUGE part of it. The vast majority of news coverage is based around it, the people are protesting because of it (the case and race relations in the town with the police), and just reading through this thread it's obvious that race is definitely something on a lot of posters minds.

The point has nothing to do with race anyways...it's not "wrong" for a police officer to approach a suspect without backup. That has nothing to do with race. The young black male comment was simply adding to it because there's so much around this case that does deal with race...and that's what so many are so fixated on. To pretend like the whole point is fixated around that is ridiculous, and nothing more than a cop-out. My point is clearly that police are allowed to approach suspects, and Wilson doing so isn't some kind of "wrong" that made his actions unacceptable.

Anyways the lone cop thing doesn't even matter, a cop is allowed to approach suspects regardless of what you think. If we are using Josie's account as the plot, then shit it's even worse for MB because all the cop did was get out of his car and was shoved back in by MB and punched in the face.

@MakeMeaSammitch:

"They weren't difficult to handle...."

Brown wasn't difficult to handle? Are you sure? so Wilson used deadly force on someone who he could have easily handled?

I've considered what they said but after seeing the video I don't believe what they say is true. A grand jury may feel the same way or they may feel differently. The eyewitness I'm talking about appears credible to me. Especially since he has the footage of the altercation which took place while the officer was inside his car. It all looks poorly on Michael Brown. Combine that with Michael's strong armed robbery and it really looks bad for Mr. Brown.

@Renevent42: "You never did? You are the one who is full of crap."

What?

" Just stop the phony outrage already...it's ridiculous. The racial aspect of this case is a HUGE part of it. The vast majority of news coverage is based around it, the people are protesting because of it (the case and race relations in the town with the police), and just reading through this thread it's obvious that race is definitely something on a lot of posters minds."

Again just because the whole thing has racial tensions rising doesn't mean YOU have to make every opinion of the events a racial thing.

I merely stated that maybe Wilson should have called for back up before stepping out his car because Brown is a big boy and plus his friend was with him, and what's your reply;

"So now cops shouldn't confront young black males without backup? "

That has nothing to do with the points I raised. You have let the race side of things go to your head.

"Anyways the lone cop thing doesn't even matter, a cop is allowed to approach suspects regardless of what you think. If we are using Josie's account as the plot, then shit it's even worse for MB because all the cop did was get out of his car and was shoved back in by MB and punched in the face."

For **** sake we are all agreed that Brown was in the wrong, and I never said cops are not allowed to approach suspects alone, I just simply stated that it was maybe a bad judgment.

I made one comment on it, with it not even being a major component of the argument...how is that making everyone opinion of the event a racial thing? Seriously? My point, which is flatly it's not wrong for cops to approach a suspect stands on it's own. Black, blue, green...whatever...a cop approaching a suspect is not wrong. I made one comment about race because that's a huge component of why it's even news and why we are even having this argument, a comment which doesn't even effect the validity of the main idea, and now every opinion on the event is a racial thing? C'mon...

And no, you have absolutely been implying that it was wrong...it's the only point we've been discussing for like 2 pages. Glad you are finally admitting that is was not wrong for the cop to approach Brown, though.

Regarding race, here's your opinion on this from the other thread:

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/is-it-time-for-ferguson-protesters-to-go-home-31509906/

@xeno_ghost

All I can say is it is open season on black people in America.

The cops are on some low tolerance shoot to kill blacks vibe.

Yeah, you are the one who is looking at this situation from a race neutral point of view...laff. Do you even believe the phony outrage when you type it?

@Renevent42: "I made one comment on it, with it not even being a major component of the argument"

It was a bullshit statement that had no place in our discussion, the whole racial aspect of this has gone to your head.

"And no, you have absolutely been implying that it was wrong...it's the only point we've been discussing for like 2 pages."

I may have said it was wrong, or a bad judgement, I never said cops are not allowed.

So if they are allowed, how was it wrong? Because Michael Brown attacked him for being alone? How is that even a valid argument in your head? How does that make it "two wrong's don't make it a right"?

Crazy logic...

And posting this again, so people can clearly see (if they already didn't know) what kind of racial bias you are looking at this situation with:

@xeno_ghost

All I can say is it is open season on black people in America.

The cops are on some low tolerance shoot to kill blacks vibe.

@Renevent42: ever heard the phrase bitten off more than you can chew, that's what Wilson did, it's his life he can do what he likes I guess, if it was me I would make sure some back up is in the way, I'm not taking any chances. I want to go home at the end of my shift.

"All I can say is it is open season on black people in America."

"The cops are on some low tolerance shoot to kill blacks vibe."

Clutching at straws are we, resorting to picking through my posting history, how sad. And those two statements I made were more relevant than your random bullshit statement that had no place in our discussion. My two statements were based on a link provided in that thread, a link showing a shooting of another black guy who had a knife but was not even close to the officers to warrant them both opening fire on him, the cops literally pulled up got out the car and shot him to death, they didn't even really try to talk him down, and that was apparently a few days after the Brown incident, so that's why I made those statements which even though I was kinda joking they were relevant.

Bad luck son try again.

I have heard of biting of more than you can chew, that doesn't mean someone did anything wrong. It just means things were worse than anticipated...ie approaching a suspect and getting attacked.

Stick to trying to debate actual arguments, this race discussion is boring and quite frankly coming from you absolutely disingenuous.

*edit*

I really don't want to discuss this race nonsense anymore. All my points really have nothing to do with that anyways, so frankly it's a waste of time.

Point:

A cop approaching a suspect is not wrong.

@Renevent42: "...Get lost phony. Stick to trying to debate actual arguments, this race discussion is boring and quite frankly coming from you absolutely disingenuous."

Well.... You know......I'm not actually a phony, because I stated that IN THIS DISCUSSION I never mentioned race, so why you brought race into it I have no idea, like I said the racial tensions have gone to your head, I wasn't discussing RACE I was discussing possible wrong choices made By Wilson in the scenario, I mentioned nothing to with anyone's race, for some strange reason you replied "so cops can't approach black people without calling for backup" you brought up race when it had no place in what we were discussing.

So you resort to pulling up statements I made in a completely different thread, which is irrelevant really because I never stated that I NEVER bring up RACE In a DISCUSSION. So I'm not a phoney since you want to start name calling I'll ablige, you are a grade A straw man with the lowest straw man techniques I've ever seen.

@Renevent42:

"I really don't want to discuss this race nonsense anymore."

Then why bring it up in the first place? You seemed to want to mention the colour of a mans skin when there was no need and now that race is relevant to the discussion you don't want to discuss it. Again just to remind everyone how much this guy likes to bring up race.

My original post;

What an argumentative and stupid comment, of course I don't expect Brown to wait, do you just argue for the sake of arguing? I merely said that Wilson could have called for back up b4 confronting Brown, yet you find something wrong with that. It's funny the lengths you guys will go to defend Wilson, even dismissing logical criticism. Maybe if Brown knew back up was on the way he would have behaved

Renevents reply;

"Funny lengths in defense? Seriously? So now cops shouldn't confront young black males without backup? Why? Because without backup the young black male may attack them"

Now really was there any need to bring the colour of a mans skin into it?

You made it into a big issue, not me. You went all emo on me when it wasn't even really the main point I am trying to get across to the point of whining about ever engaging with me, which of course, you have continued to do so rofl (liar). Bottom line is my actual point stands, which is a cop is allowed to confront a suspect and it's not a wrong which makes your whole "two wrongs don't make a right argument" fall flat on it's face. That's the real point of contention, this race stuff is pointless.

I merely pointed all your race focused comments to kinda shove that crap back in your face...don't get all f'n hissy pissy when you've made comments on race yourself.

Now can we get back on track or do we still need to keep hashing out this pointless race bullcrap?

@xeno_ghost:

Sorry if you interpret my comments as racist. Sometimes the truth is hard to hear but I am not one who believes in political correctness bs. I call it like I see it, period. BTW my family is multi-cultural, which includes African ancestry.

Lets remember that officer Wilson didn't knew initially that Michael Brown was a suspect on a "strong arm robbery".

@Renevent42:

"Bottom line is my actual point stands, which is a cop is allowed to confront a suspect and it's not a wrong which makes your whole "two wrongs don't make a right argument" fall flat on it's face."

Well... Not really because you haven't provided any evidence regarding the procedures a cop must follow in regards to when a cop should call for back up, so until you do that...... The fact is Wilson was outnumbered even though Brown was the suspect Dorian was with him.

"Now can we get back on track or do we still need to keep hashing out this pointless race bullcrap?"

I really would love to but you keep bringing up comments I have made in another thread as if I made those comments in the same context as you made your comment. A real straw man tactic. You called me a phony as if I stated I don't bring up race, period.

@Master_Live: "Lets remember that officer Wilson didn't knew initially that Michael Brown was a suspect on a "strong arm robbery"."

Wilson did know when he tried to get out the car and confront Brown.

Actually, you are claiming it's wrong, so how about you show some evidence that police cannot approach a suspect alone and can never approach them without backup? I see cops patrolling alone all day every day. I see them pulling people over and even making ARRESTS alone. There's videos all over the place with solo cops making arrests. I think it's YOU who has to show police officers have to have backup in order to approach a suspect, not me.

Anyways no strawman at all, don't get all phony and hissy pissy if you've done it yourself.

@Renevent42: it's not just "A" suspect, he had Dorian with him, and Brown is a big boy, you don't understand the points I'm making maybe I'm not explaining myself properly.

I'm guessing that this is what has to be proven (in BOLD) in order to justify the cops actions. This exerpt was taken from moga.gov

563.046. 1. A law enforcement officer need not retreat or desist from efforts to effect the arrest, or from efforts to prevent the escape from custody, of a person he reasonably believes to have committed an offense because of resistance or threatened resistance of the arrestee. In addition to the use of physical force authorized under other sections of this chapter, he is, subject to the provisions of subsections 2 and 3, justified in the use of such physical force as he reasonably believes is immediately necessary to effect the arrest or to prevent the escape from custody.

2. The use of any physical force in making an arrest is not justified under this section unless the arrest is lawful or the law enforcement officer reasonably believes the arrest is lawful.

3. A law enforcement officer in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody is justified in using deadly force only

(1) When such is authorized under other sections of this chapter; or

(2) When he reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested

(a) Has committed or attempted to commit a felony; or

(b) Is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon; or

(c) May otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.

Let's be realistic here, Cops don't normally call for back up unless they were told the suspect is armed and dangerous in which case more cops would have been around the area. For all we know the store clerk who got robbed by Michael Brown probably specified to the cops that Michael Brown did not brandish a weapon during robbery. If that were the case, and unless a supervisor or the cop headquarters said over the radio "If you encounter suspect, don't engage. Call for backup and wait for them to arrive", then NORMALLY, a cop will try to handle the situation themselves. If you're an armed officer going up against 2 unarmed civilians, one being a POSSIBLE suspect, would you really radio in that you need backup?

It also becomes a question of when exactly did Wilson know 100% for sure that Brown was the suspect. Was it when Brown and his friend didn't comply when the officer told them to get off the street or after Brown descended upon Wilson (Most likely this scenario, in which case Wilson probably didn't know Brown was hostile and that he probably needed backup until after he was attacked)?

That really doesn't prove anything. Bear in mind (Assuming other articles have been at least somewhat accurate) the officer's face was badly injured (something about his orbital socket being busted) if there is any fact in that then his aim was probably pretty off, which is why 11 shots fired-6 landed, per the autopsy reports. This officer was shooting a weapon, injured, at a very large young man coming at him. It is possible that the first few shots missed the target and seeing that Mr Brown was still charging, the officer fired more shots....

@tocool340: "If you're an armed officer going up against 2 unarmed civilians, one being a POSSIBLE suspect, would you really radio in that you need backup?"

That's my point really, an armed cop will rely on the fact that they have the power to use deadly force with their gun as their back up, rather than call for actual back up which in this case would lessen the need for deadly force.

Wilson's friend Josie who gave Wilson's account of what happened said that Wilson heard on the radio about the robbery suspect realised it was Brown and then he went in to apprehend Brown, he didn't even radio in that he had the suspects in sight. But yeah I guess you are right why radio for back up when if they get out of line you can just use deadly force....... If it was just one unarmed suspect by himself then fair enough but there was Brown and Dorian. If Dorian was feeling frisky he could have got involved with the struggle, obtained the officers gun and shot and killed the officer luckily that didn't happen but it could have happened. Remember assumption is the mother of all **** ups. Of course you have to take into account the time frame in which it all went down, but still judging by Josie's account I think it was a poor decision for Wilson not to get on the radio.

So in answer to your question yes if I'm by myself and I'm out numbered in any way I'm letting someone know what's happening and not acting alone, because I want to go home at the end of my shift.

I'm not saying Wilson should have waited for back up, but at least get help on the way before approaching a potentially dangerous situation when out numbered and not just rely on the fact that you can just shoot people all the time.

I'm in no way defending Brown his actions lead to his death, as the lone officer had no choice(I hope) but to use deadly force as he was alone and He couldn't physically handle Brown.

QUESTION;

Don't cops in the US carry pepper spray, or Tasers non lethal ways of bringing down a suspect?

IMO lethal force should only be used on armed suspects. Or if you have two or three guys trying to beat your ass.

Let me quote what I said in my earlier post:

"It also becomes a question of when exactly did Wilson know 100% for sure that Brown was the suspect. Was it when Brown and his friend didn't comply when the officer told them to get off the street or after Brown descended upon Wilson (Most likely this scenario, in which case Wilson probably didn't know Brown was hostile and that he probably needed backup until after he was attacked)?"

As far as I know, officers don't call for backup unless they know for sure that they really need it and/or that they have it on good authority that the person they're about to apprehend is the suspect. If everyone thought like you and felt they need backup for every POSSIBLE suspect, then you'd be increasing the likelihood of the real suspect getting away (Or make it easier to predict cops movements) because all the cops will be clustered in multiple group on a bunch of maybes instead of being scattered to cover more ground. And, for the sake of it, let's say Wilson did call for backup. If they got there and Brown was still on a suicide mission, taunting cops like they won't shoot him, then he'd still be dead since cops wouldn't know for sure that he's completely unarmed...

Pepper spray and tasers do not always incapacitate a suspect. Both have limited range so if something goes wrong and that suspect is still advancing, you're pretty much fucked. So when dealing with suspects involved in robbery, cops don't normally use them. They are mostly used to break up fights or deal with the occasional misdemeanor whom are resisting arrest or disturbing the peace....

@tocool340: "As far as I know, officers don't call for backup unless they know for sure that they really need it"

Yeh by then it's to late.

"let's say Wilson did call for backup. If they got there and Brown was still on a suicide mission, taunting cops like they won't shoot him, then he'd still be dead since cops wouldn't know for sure that he's completely unarmed..."

If he is not waving a weapon around then he is unarmed, are cops not trained in hand to hand combat or self defense anymore? Just trained to shoot people who are not armed, I'm sure two three even four cops armed with police batons would be able to take Brown down physically rather than lethally, and when a cop calls back up they all come running.

Did Wilson at any point call for back up? Nah even when Brown ran off after the initial struggle? Nah, so even when he needed assistance he didn't call for it. Why? Because knew he could just use deadly force on Brown and feel justified in doing so because he was alone and was under thread of being assaulted.

Anyway I've made all the points I want to make on this particular subject.

I won't bring you round to my way of thinking and vice versa :P

Your trolling is getting old.

No. A cop should be able to use lethal force even when it's one guy beating his ass. Yes, a taser would have been a much better alternative. But woulda shoulda coulda. Again, look at how the law reads. I don't think this will be a tough case for the officer to prove he was justified in using deadly force. A taser though....geeze....would have been a much better option.

His trolling is weak. Like his console.

They had been, they stated immediately that he was hospitalized.

Alright, let me put it to you this way, cops approach misdemeanors and felonies differently. Officers are less likely to use deadly force when dealing with misdemeanors (They would be using tasers, pepper spray, and hand to hand combat against people like that) than oppose to someone who just committed a felony (They will almost always go in with their hands on their guns since felonies are usually associated with serious crimes). What MB did was a serious crime and assaulting an officer was absolute stupidity.

And again, cops do not know if he has a concealed weapon (Doesn't have to be a gun, could be a knife. They wouldn't know for sure). All they know is that he was just involved in a robbery which means he could be potentially dangerous.

And again, if all cops thought like you, many suspects would get away and many more cops will end up dead. For starters, you have no idea when your backup will arrive as they could be 3-5 minutes out, giving your suspect plenty of time to lose you. If Wilson called for backup and still needed to stall Brown, he'd still ended up getting assaulted as it only takes a split second for a situation to escalate. Also, its a cop duty to protect the peace which includes not letting your suspect just walk off. Wilson got his ass beat but was still well enough to perform his duty which he did despite it not being a very happy ending.

You see, if you were a cop, I don't think you would last very long. You'd end up being another example at the academy of what cops shouldn't do in certain situations like this one cop who stopped this guy that was acting a little out there. This cop, despite continuously yelling at his suspect not to put his hands on him and to freeze, allowed this guy to not only put his hands on him but also allowed him walk to his vehicle. Because he allowed that guy to walk off, the guy came out of his vehicle with an AK47 and pretty much killed the cop after a good 2-3 minute fire fight. All of that was actually recorded on video and I would post it here but I'm pretty sure its against ToU to post something like that.

So yeah, if that doesn't change your views on anything, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I'll just respect your opinion and leave it at that....

@tocool340: "And again, if all cops thought like you, many suspects would get away and many more cops will end up dead. For starters, you have no idea when your backup will arrive as they could be 3-5 minutes out, giving your suspect plenty of time to lose you. If Wilson called for backup and still needed to stall Brown, he'd still ended up getting assaulted as it only takes a split second for a situation to escalate. Also, its a cop duty to protect the peace which includes not letting your suspect just walk off. Wilson got his ass beat but was still well enough to perform his duty which he did despite it not being a very happy ending."

I'm not saying Wilson should have called for back up and then sat and watch Brown get away while waiting for back up, I never once said that, so why say "if all cops thought like me" and "if I was a cop" plus just because you have no idea when back up will arrive doesn't mean you don't call for it. Also a simple blast on the radio saying "I'm about to approach suspects fitting the description, one of them is carrying a box of cigars" and a location would suffice. That would be enough for maybe 1-2 squad cars to come and assist and not the whole precinct, there was a cop at the store where the robbery occurred at the time, that cop wouldn't have been far away. I'm not sayin cops need to call back up for every situation, but in this situation where a lone cop is about to approach a possible dangerous robbery suspect who is not alone, a simple toot on the radio not necessarily to call back up but to convey the current situation would go a long way to increase the cops safety, it may have been that because the cop was alone that Brown fancied his chances, if two or three cops had turned up he may have backed down. But of course Brown was stupid for fighting with the cop leaving the cop with no choice but to use deadly force, if indeed that what occurred.

What do you guys think about the Black Panthers? Yelling death chants against officer Wilson. What a marvelous way to display your keen powers of intellect. Leading a death chant. I bet the average IQ for a member of that group is 190. Sheer genius.

Wait there's still real Black Panthers? Anyway, yelling death chants is protected by freedom of speech. That's why people like those Westboro Church most likely never get arrested for stuff like that too.

LMFAO wow there is no limit to how ridiculous this can get.

You should always expect absurdity from those that would shamelessly employ conjecture as a means of establishing justification for the use of deadly force. With conjecture, the possibilities are endless.

@purplelabel: Glad to see this is not a race war like yahoo, and other news forums. I was scared to click on this because I tend to stick up for the weak, being pushed around by the strong, and get into a heated battle. My opinion though is an unarmed MAN was killed (18 year old child really), and shot over 6 times, twice in the head. That should be enough evidence. What justifies this? it seems more like an execution! RIP Michael Brown

This was determined to be a lie.

Of course it was. Wilson can thank his badge for saving him from living in a prison cell for the rest of his life. Or for excusing him from ANY sort of consequences really...