LOTR vs. Narnia vs. aSoIaF vs. Harry Potter vs. Wheel of Time

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"]

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"] Sex is a fantasy, not fantasy. Sex is part of the real world, so why does it need to take a big part of a fantasy world? And your little scenario is a porno stereotype, and has nothing to do with the definition of pornography or written pornography. Many people say that Tolkien is a difficult writer to read, academically. Meaning, he uses big words. Please do not diminish the beauty of the Oxford professor's work. You're telling me not to read into the poll? Take your own medicine bro. I asked which was the best, and the people responded. Sour grapes?brucewayne69

It doesn't need to play a part in the story, but it helps. Having familiar elements in a story, whether it be sex or realistic characters or what have you; it enhances the readers connection to the story. My little porn scenario was a joke, and I will agree that some people may think the sex is a little much. But I think most people are mature enough to realize it's purpose.

Why the fvck are you telling me to not diminish his work, when I said it won't. I have no idea where this or Tolkien's merit as a writer come in to this, I never said he wasn't a good writer.

I am telling you polls can be decieving, and this poll is most likely very biased.

But good job ignoring the most central points, in paragraphs 3 and 4, of my previous post.

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"] People are bored of good vs evil. People don't want black and white in their entertainment anymore, they want shades of grey. inb4 Fifty Shades of Grey joke.

Our time, the time before our time, the time before the time before our time, and the time after our time we always be varying shades of grey; the great art/storytelling of each time will reflect that. People want what is real wrapped in fantasy, something they can relate to but is also exciting; and if you think the world(and the past) is black and white, good vs evil you have a LOT of growing up to do. But I think that is not a surprise to anyone who has read any of your sh!t posts.

Storm_Marine

While there are a few notable exceptions, most ASoIaF characters seem to me to be pretty black and white, sure sometimes the good guys make mistakes and the bad guys have a bit of humanity to them but it's hard (IMO) to not see Jon Snow, most of the Starks, Joffrey, Cersie, Tywin, Tyrion- basically most of the main characters falling into the usual hero, anti-hero, and villain roles.

And heck, even Tolkien had some greyish anti-heroes like Turin Turambar for example.

The Dark Tower, as long as you forget Books Five and Six and most of Seven happened.

TheFallenDemon

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

While there are a few notable exceptions, most ASoIaF characters seem to me to be pretty black and white, sure sometimes the good guys make mistakes and the bad guys have a bit of humanity to them but it's hard (IMO) to not see Jon Snow, most of the Starks, Joffrey, Cersie, Tywin, Tyrion- basically most of the main characters falling into the usual hero, anti-hero, and villain roles.

Laihendi

And heck, even Tolkien had some greyish anti-heroes like Turin Turambar for example.

It's been a while but I remember him doing some bad stuff. Though of course the circumstances shaped him.

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]Good vs. evil will always be relevant. The fact that people consider that issue to be archaic is a sign of the immorality of our time, which is itself an evil.Storm_Marine

Our time, the time before our time, the time before the time before our time, and the time after our time we always be varying shades of grey; the great art/storytelling of each time will reflect that. People want what is real wrapped in fantasy, something they can relate to but is also exciting; and if you think the world(and the past) is black and white, good vs evil you have a LOT of growing up to do. But I think that is not a surprise to anyone who has read any of your sh!t posts.

While there are a few notable exceptions, most ASoIaF characters seem to me to be pretty black and white, sure sometimes the good guys make mistakes and the bad guys have a bit of humanity to them but it's hard (IMO) to not see Jon Snow, most of the Starks, Joffrey, Cersie, Tywin, Tyrion, Theon- basically most of the main characters falling through their actions into the usual hero, anti-hero, and villain roles.

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"][QUOTE="Agent-Zero"]What sex is or isn't doesn't change the fact that you are only getting some in imaginary land.

It doesn't need to play a part in the story, but it helps. Having familiar elements in a story, whether it be sex or realistic characters or what have you; it enhances the readers connection to the story. My little porn scenario was a joke, and I will agree that some people may think the sex is a little much. But I think most people are mature enough to realize it's purpose.

Why the fvck are you telling me to not diminish his work, when I said it won't. I have no idea where this or Tolkien's merit as a writer come in to this, I never said he wasn't a good writer.

I am telling you polls can be decieving, and this poll is most likely very biased.

But good job ignoring the most central points, in paragraphs 3 and 4, of my previous post.

Agent-Zero

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"] People are bored of good vs evil. People don't want black and white in their entertainment anymore, they want shades of grey. inb4 Fifty Shades of Grey joke.

Our time, the time before our time, the time before the time before our time, and the time after our time we always be varying shades of grey; the great art/storytelling of each time will reflect that. People want what is real wrapped in fantasy, something they can relate to but is also exciting; and if you think the world(and the past) is black and white, good vs evil you have a LOT of growing up to do. But I think that is not a surprise to anyone who has read any of your sh!t posts.

Storm_Marine

While there are a few notable exceptions, most ASoIaF characters seem to me to be pretty black and white, sure sometimes the good guys make mistakes and the bad guys have a bit of humanity to them but it's hard (IMO) to not see Jon Snow, most of the Starks, Joffrey, Cersie, Tywin, Tyrion- basically most of the main characters falling into the usual hero, anti-hero, and villain roles.

And heck, even Tolkien had some greyish anti-heroes like Turin Turambar for example.

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

While there are a few notable exceptions, most ASoIaF characters seem to me to be pretty black and white, sure sometimes the good guys make mistakes and the bad guys have a bit of humanity to them but it's hard (IMO) to not see Jon Snow, most of the Starks, Joffrey, Cersie, Tywin, Tyrion- basically most of the main characters falling into the usual hero, anti-hero, and villain roles.

Agent-Zero

And heck, even Tolkien had some greyish anti-heroes like Turin Turambar for example.

I don't see why we can't include the broader Middle Earth mythology. LoTR by itself is looks pretty small and short compared SoIaF and Wheel of Time which are long drawn out affairs indeed.

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"][QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

And heck, even Tolkien had some greyish anti-heroes like Turin Turambar for example.

Storm_Marine

I don't see why we can't include the broader Middle Earth mythology. LoTR by itself is looks pretty small and short compared SoIaF and Wheel of Time which are long drawn out affairs indeed.

Anyway Tolkien > Harry Potter > Song of Ice and Fire > Dune > Book of the Fallen > Wheel of Time > Narnia

Why do you like Harry Potter more than ASOIAF?Agent-Zero

Far more readable, wondrous, and original.

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]Good vs. evil will always be relevant. The fact that people consider that issue to be archaic is a sign of the immorality of our time, which is itself an evil.Storm_Marine

Our time, the time before our time, the time before the time before our time, and the time after our time we always be varying shades of grey; the great art/storytelling of each time will reflect that. People want what is real wrapped in fantasy, something they can relate to but is also exciting; and if you think the world(and the past) is black and white, good vs evil you have a LOT of growing up to do. But I think that is not a surprise to anyone who has read any of your sh!t posts.

While there are a few notable exceptions, most ASoIaF characters seem to me to be pretty black and white, sure sometimes the good guys make mistakes and the bad guys have a bit of humanity to them but it's hard (IMO) to not see Jon Snow, most of the Starks, Joffrey, Cersie, Tywin, Tyrion, Theon- basically most of the main characters falling through their actions into the usual hero, anti-hero, and villain roles.

I didn't like LOTR. It is too antiquated for what I expect in today's literature. It's not bad, but ASOIAF is definitely superior if both series are taken at value today. [QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"] People are bored of good vs evil. People don't want black and white in their entertainment anymore, they want shades of grey. inb4 Fifty Shades of Grey joke.

Our time, the time before our time, the time before the time before our time, and the time after our time we always be varying shades of grey; the great art/storytelling of each time will reflect that. People want what is real wrapped in fantasy, something they can relate to but is also exciting; and if you think the world(and the past) is black and white, good vs evil you have a LOT of growing up to do. But I think that is not a surprise to anyone who has read any of your sh!t posts.

stanleycup98

While there are a few notable exceptions, most ASoIaF characters seem to me to be pretty black and white, sure sometimes the good guys make mistakes and the bad guys have a bit of humanity to them but it's hard (IMO) to not see Jon Snow, most of the Starks, Joffrey, Cersie, Tywin, Tyrion, Theon- basically most of the main characters falling through their actions into the usual hero, anti-hero, and villain roles.

I've read them all, though I haven't read the first few in ages.

I didn't like LOTR. It is too antiquated for what I expect in today's literature. It's not bad, but ASOIAF is definitely superior if both series are taken at value today. [QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"] People are bored of good vs evil. People don't want black and white in their entertainment anymore, they want shades of grey. inb4 Fifty Shades of Grey joke.

Our time, the time before our time, the time before the time before our time, and the time after our time we always be varying shades of grey; the great art/storytelling of each time will reflect that. People want what is real wrapped in fantasy, something they can relate to but is also exciting; and if you think the world(and the past) is black and white, good vs evil you have a LOT of growing up to do. But I think that is not a surprise to anyone who has read any of your sh!t posts.

stanleycup98

While there are a few notable exceptions, most ASoIaF characters seem to me to be pretty black and white, sure sometimes the good guys make mistakes and the bad guys have a bit of humanity to them but it's hard (IMO) to not see Jon Snow, most of the Starks, Joffrey, Cersie, Tywin, Tyrion, Theon- basically most of the main characters falling through their actions into the usual hero, anti-hero, and villain roles.

Jaime, Tyrion, and the little kids aren't perhaps. The rest, while they have their touches of humanity, are despicable and genuinely malevolent in most of their actions. As for people like Theon, you can feel sorry for him or whatever but the stuff that happens to him later on is karma.

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"] That is cheating; the poll says LOTR, not all of those other books. Same universe, different series of books.Agent-Zero

I don't see why we can't include the broader Middle Earth mythology. LoTR by itself is looks pretty small and short compared SoIaF and Wheel of Time which are long drawn out affairs indeed.

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"][QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

I don't see why we can't include the broader Middle Earth mythology. LoTR by itself is looks pretty small and short compared SoIaF and Wheel of Time which are long drawn out affairs indeed.

brucewayne69

His Dark Materials should be included.

jimkabrhel

I second this.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

His Dark Materials should be included.

Whiteblade999

I second this.

Ha, Book of the Fallen and many more should be on there before that.

[QUOTE="Whiteblade999"]

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

His Dark Materials should be included.

Storm_Marine

I second this.

Ha, Book of the Fallen and many more should be on there before that.

You could make an argument for Book of the Fallen based on the pure scope, but I still think His Dark Materials would be above something like Harry Potter or Narnia.

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

[QUOTE="Whiteblade999"]

I second this.

Whiteblade999

Ha, Book of the Fallen and many more should be on there before that.

You could make an argument for Book of the Fallen based on the pure scope, but I still think His Dark Materials would be above something like Harry Potter or Narnia.

Harry Potter is the phenomenon of our generation.

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"]Why do you like Harry Potter more than ASOIAF?Storm_Marine

Far more readable, wondrous, and original.

His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman my favorite fantasy series becuase it's less fantasyish than the others and has a more exotic world. I have not read Wheel of Time or aSolaF as I'm not really into fantasy.

Harry Potter is lots of fun while the Narnia books are crisp, extremely well told little strories.

I don't care for Lord of the Rings. Its lore is impressive, but I don't think it's anything to write home about as far as storytelling is concerned. The pacing is not very good, with way too much description.

Before this fall I would have definitely suggested LoTR (though I haven't read the Wheel of Time series or Narnia), however I've read the first 4 books and am on ADwD in ASoIaF, and I'm not sure if I genuinely like it more, or if it is just more recent in my mind (Or LoTR is more nostalgic?), but it is pretty good. The writing styles and stories between Tolkien and Martin are very different, and that's what makes it hard to compare them. I think they might be to different of styles to compare. But until I finish ASoIaF, I cant choose it over LoTR.

Now, HP and LoTR are much closer in style/plot (I would guess Narnia too, but I've only read snippits for class long ago), and I would say LoTR blows HP out of the water (and I grew up reading HP and loved it). I'm not sure why so many people think HP is better than LoTR, I'd like to hear their arguments!

Zlurodirom

I think Rowling is way better storyteller than Tolkien, even if he was more accomplished as as author. Harry Potter is pure story while alot of LOTR has too much description and traveling. Despite LOTR having richer lore, Rowling does a way better job of making me want to turn the page even if her flaws as a writer are pretty stark.

[QUOTE="Zlurodirom"]

Before this fall I would have definitely suggested LoTR (though I haven't read the Wheel of Time series or Narnia), however I've read the first 4 books and am on ADwD in ASoIaF, and I'm not sure if I genuinely like it more, or if it is just more recent in my mind (Or LoTR is more nostalgic?), but it is pretty good. The writing styles and stories between Tolkien and Martin are very different, and that's what makes it hard to compare them. I think they might be to different of styles to compare. But until I finish ASoIaF, I cant choose it over LoTR.

Now, HP and LoTR are much closer in style/plot (I would guess Narnia too, but I've only read snippits for class long ago), and I would say LoTR blows HP out of the water (and I grew up reading HP and loved it). I'm not sure why so many people think HP is better than LoTR, I'd like to hear their arguments!

GreySeal9

I think Rowling is way better storyteller than Tolkien, even if he was more accomplished as as author. Harry Potter is pure story while alot of LOTR has too much description and traveling. Despite LOTR having richer lore, Rowling does a way better job of making me want to turn the page even if her flaws as a writer are pretty stark.

This is all personal opinion,

The question I would suggest is: Do we consider lore as a part of the story? I really liked the backstory from LoTR and ASoIaF, because it feels like Martin and Tolkein created worlds, as well as stories, it feels more complete (to me of course). JK didn't do this quite as much, and I wouldn't count it against her, but it feels a little less complete, when Tolkein and Martin throw out references to past events, I feel like the story is more complete as a whole (even if less time is spent on the main plot when compared to HP).

JK Rowling did a great job with the story in the earlier books (1-4, every book had new ideas/themes, were imaginative, new magical concepts, it felt like we were learning with Harry the whole time), but re-reading some of the later books reminded me that her world she created changed completely (which I probably shouldn't fault her with it, but it went from a younger series with wonderous discovery of magic, to a darker novel which was more about stopping Voldemort. While I cant fault her for changing the style of writing (all series changes, ASoIaF changes every book from the huge events that occur), I enjoyed the earlier books' creativity, which seemed to lack in the later books. Of course I read the first 5 books (5th is my favorite) probably 10+ times each, while I only read the 6 and 7th 3-4 times each, so it could be a slight nostalgia effect, or I might have overlooked/forgotten some specifics.

If that make sense, that's my point of view on the two series. I do have internal struggling with the change in HP from lighter to dark, and it's probably affecting my judgement (I also loved the first 7th movie, and hated the 2nd part, and I don't know why besides the 2nd part stayed truer to the book than any of the other movies, which makes no sense because before that I always wanted the HP movies to incoorporate more from the books).

Edit: I agree about parts of LoTR, it could drag when Tolkein spent a long time describing something, or traveling, and parts could be shorted (similar to parts of The Hobbit by Peter Jackson).

Lord of the Rings for me. I tried reading a Game of Thrones but could not get into it, will probably have to try again sometime.

The ending to RETURN OF THE KING was the only movie ever to make me cry. The books are epic and compelling. The language is beautiful and flows off the tongue. The story of companionship, sacrifice, and hope is heartwarming. The location and characters are enchanting and engrossing. As far as fantasy fiction goes it's the best. As far as movies goes they are a masterpiece that is very rare. You might never see a movie on the grand scale and quality as LOTR ever again.

[QUOTE="Zlurodirom"]

Before this fall I would have definitely suggested LoTR (though I haven't read the Wheel of Time series or Narnia), however I've read the first 4 books and am on ADwD in ASoIaF, and I'm not sure if I genuinely like it more, or if it is just more recent in my mind (Or LoTR is more nostalgic?), but it is pretty good. The writing styles and stories between Tolkien and Martin are very different, and that's what makes it hard to compare them. I think they might be to different of styles to compare. But until I finish ASoIaF, I cant choose it over LoTR.

Now, HP and LoTR are much closer in style/plot (I would guess Narnia too, but I've only read snippits for class long ago), and I would say LoTR blows HP out of the water (and I grew up reading HP and loved it). I'm not sure why so many people think HP is better than LoTR, I'd like to hear their arguments!

GreySeal9

I think Rowling is way better storyteller than Tolkien, even if he was more accomplished as as author. Harry Potter is pure story while alot of LOTR has too much description and traveling. Despite LOTR having richer lore, Rowling does a way better job of making me want to turn the page even if her flaws as a writer are pretty stark.

I disagree with you. I think the descriptions in LOTR fits perfectly. It's like it really happened and an old man is telling it to you by the fire. It gives it a sophisticated feeling and I was definitely turning pages.

The ending to RETURN OF THE KING was the only movie ever to make me cry. GOGOGOGURT

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

The ending to RETURN OF THE KING was the only movie ever to make me cry. Agent-Zero

Yeah your ADHD must really have been noticeable by then.

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"][QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

The ending to RETURN OF THE KING was the only movie ever to make me cry. GOGOGOGURT

Yeah your ADHD must really have been noticeable by then.

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"] It also made me cry. Because my butt hurt, and I kept thinking I could finally get up. but NOO

Agent-Zero

Yeah your ADHD must really have been noticeable by then.

It's a good thing I'm not common then.

[QUOTE="Agent-Zero"][QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

Yeah your ADHD must really have been noticeable by then.

GOGOGOGURT

It's a good thing I'm not common then.

Yay for Tolkien! I love LOTR! Just got back from my third showing of the Hobbit. I plan on reading aSoIaF soon though. From the books I have read out of the specified, LOTR>HP>Narniabrucewayne69

Song of Ice and Fire for me. Martins writing just captures me more than the other choices. Love the character development, political intrigue and how in depth he goes. LOTR is a close second for me though. Maybe I'm a bit biased since I read Song of Ice and Fire before LOTR though.

You guys know that CS lewis and JR tolkien were buds?

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"]Yay for Tolkien! I love LOTR! Just got back from my third showing of the Hobbit. I plan on reading aSoIaF soon though. From the books I have read out of the specified, LOTR>HP>Narniawhipassmt

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"]Yay for Tolkien! I love LOTR! Just got back from my third showing of the Hobbit. I plan on reading aSoIaF soon though. From the books I have read out of the specified, LOTR>HP>Narniabrucewayne69

Yeah I would say lewis's narnia is my second favorite. I like LOTR better jsut because the religious undertones aren't so obvious. Not that religious undertones bother me.

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"]Yay for Tolkien! I love LOTR! Just got back from my third showing of the Hobbit. I plan on reading aSoIaF soon though. From the books I have read out of the specified, LOTR>HP>Narniabrucewayne69

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] Did you change your avatar just for this thread, or is it just a coincidence?

whipassmt

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"] Not really coincidence or planned. I'm on a LOTR stint lately, so I guess my avy reflects that. And @gogogogurt- yeah dude. Tolkien converted Lewis to Christianity, them and some other prominent writers had a thursday evening bar routine. Pretty cool how that works outbrucewayne69

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] I see. Perhaps the Hobbit movie is putting you on this "LOTR stint", precious.

whipassmt

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"] That, the trilogy extended edition marathon at the theatre a couple of weeks ago, the gorgeous one volume leather edition I got for Christmas (LOTR), and the fact I'm watching the appendices on my extended editions (never got around to it). So yeah.brucewayne69

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] I see. Have a precious time.

whipassmt

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"] The appendices are great. I'm learning so much about these movies! Did you know that they re dubbed 98% of the dialogue in a recording booth? It seemed so natural! The only problem is that it takes the magic out of the moviesbrucewayne69

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] I never knew that about the dubbing. Have you ever read the books?

whipassmt

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="brucewayne69"] Yeah a few times. I have all of them in paperback, just got a fancy version. You?brucewayne69