Liberal Democracy is not compatible with Islam

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#51 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6118 posts) -
[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"] You're a liberal but you don't hate us. o.O I don't know what to make of you... I'll just say I represent the bastion of Islamism in KSA and we will not be defeated on our own soil! *^* You know who we are mang. You should join since we're the nicest. =w= But I digress, your posts are very thorough, if not a little orientalist at times, I applaud your effort!

I thought TDH made you leave

Incorrect, new TOU made me. I visit sometimes to post on DWU, or check up on OT's state, this is one of those moments, Captain Jack Sparrow.
#52 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

kingkong0124

No excuse for their barbarism..a lot of areas in the world has similar histories but are less violent today..And, if you study the history of the Middle East, it was largely violent before the West came..

And judging by what you're saying right now, i think it'd be safe to assume you think of Al Qaeda as freedom fighters? :roll:

Recognizing the causes of certain events is not the same as making excuses for those events. Only an idiot would conflate them.

And there you go making idiotic assumptions again. Just like when you thought it would be safe to assume since I smoke cigarettes then I probably shoot heroin, and since I carelessly caused some unintentional property damage as a kid that means I love stealing.

#53 Posted by MrPraline (21320 posts) -
hi vicky fize < 3 I KNOW WE HATE EACHOTHER ON PAPER but i like you
#54 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6118 posts) -
Hey hey! Indeed old bean. But fvck paper/ideologies. Ya'll pretty swell people.
#55 Posted by SaudiFury (8707 posts) -
[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] ... People seem to forget it was the Middle Eastern and Arab culture that helped put Europe into the high middle ages and the Renaissance after the Crusades.. Victorious_Fize
it's not just that. Gulf Arabs were little more then traveling nomads, sometimes with blood feuds (again not new or unique, or anymore bloody) with other traveling nomads and small sultans. You also got long periods of time where no major wars or battles took place, because the land was under the control of some empire, whether it was Ottoman, Ummayyed, Abbasid, or even Alexander the Great's Empire. Empires borders almost always were bleeding more frequently then their interior, and this was not unique to the Muslim world either, it was normal state of affairs with all empires, be they Chinese (which went through several dynastic overthrows with the Mandate of Heaven as the reasoning for their overthrows), the British Empire, the various South American states, or even the growing United States into the 'unclaimed' territory. it's this demonization, or making the Middle East as this grossly simplistic caricature of non-stop turmoil and bloodshed, that as a historian buff really pisses me off.

You're a liberal but you don't hate us. o.O I don't know what to make of you... I'll just say I represent the bastion of Islamism in KSA and we will not be defeated on our own soil! *^* You know who we are mang. You should join since we're the nicest. =w= But I digress, your posts are very thorough, if not a little orientalist at times, I applaud your effort!

I am a social liberal, fiscally conservative (on the whole), i'm also a secularist. I believe in the individual freedom for all people, i do not like or agree with any theocratic or secular dogma that insists it's stand is right and cannot be questioned or argued with. Hence i end up on the side against Islamism, which is what it inevitably always turn into once set in the seat of power. but does that mean i hate the Arabs/Muslims? no, not at all, far from it.. I love the region, the people and it's history, and it's a lot more interesting then people in the West seem to pretend to think of it. I just hate ideologies that are based around dogma. That a human, or a group of humans can sit and say they have authority to enforce what they please because they claim to know the mind of God (through only text), is not someone who should be trusted with anything. absolute power (that can neither be questioned or allowed to be challenged) will absolutely corrupt.
#56 Posted by MrPraline (21320 posts) -
[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]Hey hey! Indeed old bean. But fvck paper/ideologies. Ya'll pretty swell < people.

< 3
#57 Posted by mrbojangles25 (31985 posts) -

well, they may think they are not compatable with us, but we (or I, I dare not speak for everyone, as the activist did) are compatable with them.

#58 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6118 posts) -
[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"][QUOTE="SaudiFury"] it's not just that. Gulf Arabs were little more then traveling nomads, sometimes with blood feuds (again not new or unique, or anymore bloody) with other traveling nomads and small sultans. You also got long periods of time where no major wars or battles took place, because the land was under the control of some empire, whether it was Ottoman, Ummayyed, Abbasid, or even Alexander the Great's Empire. Empires borders almost always were bleeding more frequently then their interior, and this was not unique to the Muslim world either, it was normal state of affairs with all empires, be they Chinese (which went through several dynastic overthrows with the Mandate of Heaven as the reasoning for their overthrows), the British Empire, the various South American states, or even the growing United States into the 'unclaimed' territory. it's this demonization, or making the Middle East as this grossly simplistic caricature of non-stop turmoil and bloodshed, that as a historian buff really pisses me off.

You're a liberal but you don't hate us. o.O I don't know what to make of you... I'll just say I represent the bastion of Islamism in KSA and we will not be defeated on our own soil! *^* You know who we are mang. You should join since we're the nicest. =w= But I digress, your posts are very thorough, if not a little orientalist at times, I applaud your effort!

I am a social liberal, fiscally conservative (on the whole), i'm also a secularist. I believe in the individual freedom for all people, i do not like or agree with any theocratic or secular dogma that insists it's stand is right and cannot be questioned or argued with. Hence i end up on the side against Islamism, which is what it inevitably always turn into once set in the seat of power. but does that mean i hate the Arabs/Muslims? no, not at all, far from it.. I love the region, the people and it's history, and it's a lot more interesting then people in the West seem to pretend to think of it. I just hate ideologies that are based around dogma. That a human, or a group of humans can sit and say they have authority to enforce what they please because they claim to know the mind of God (through only text), is not someone who should be trusted with anything. absolute power (that can neither be questioned or allowed to be challenged) will absolutely corrupt.

You know, we a built a system to counter that... we're not Christians or Shi'ites. It's called a Caliphate, and no, don't even start into bringing up monarchies painted as a Caliphate (umayyad, abbasid, etc etc). We're talking Rashidun style, as instructed to us by Prophet Muhammad PBUH and what his righteous companions worked so hard to create after his death. It's a democratic system (shura, people's representatives) that ensures that Islam is preserved and implemented in the country by the elected Khalif, there are Hudud (limits) that a Khalif cannot overreach and so much more. It's not absolute by any stretch. The Islamism I superscribe to is Hizb-Tahrir/MB style, which is pragmatic, and real and honest. I am for Sheik Khalid Al Rashid, which has been jailed for over 10 years for releasing a casette lamenting the state of the Muslim world; whereas your kind, the secularist, liberal, that insults the prophet (not you, just those who share a similar mentality of westernization), cannot spend more than a day in jail without a worldwide uproar. Oh and Kashghari is released whereas Sheik Nasir al Omar was jailed for crying. What a government. Get off your tabla, and stop harping on things Al Walid would give you billions for spewing.
#59 Posted by super600 (30311 posts) -

Yes!It is.

#60 Posted by SaudiFury (8707 posts) -

Victorious_Fize
the thing is Fize, it's been 1,400 years, whats the hold up? why has this system of governance never revealed itself in history? You can find poetry and songs written for the old Caliphs as being leaders of Islamic Caliphate, and today we can laugh in ridicule that they were not.

It's been my opinion and observance of modern Arab history, even ancient all the way to the companions of the Prophet, that whenever there's been a Caliph, however way they were ruling, there were always detractors, there were always people who said they were not practicing the 'true' Islam. and this 'game' is still true everytime there is an election or an overthrow of a dictator, 'president', or monarch, they were not practicing 'true' Islam, but the next guy, he will surely establish the Rashidun Caliphate.

The Muslim world insults and demonizes Jews, Christians, Atheists, Gays, and Westerners in general routinely, this is not new in modern Arab history, why get really uptight when some @sshole in the west decide to be disgustingly offensive about Islam and the Prophet? Not to mention the irony that being accused of being violent, then reacting with violence to prove that Islam is not violent. C'mon man it's an oxymoron. We shouldn't be excusing that behavior. Not it's not right to be just be intentionally offensive, it's also really not right to kill someone over that. Not to mention the idiocy of wanting to burn and kill people who only share the nationality of said perpetrators.

and i don't believe in treating non-Muslims as dhimmi, that's not equality, that's apartheid, or worse it could be characterized as a protection racket not that different from the shop keeper paying for protection from the mob. Muslims in most non-Muslim lands today can experience legal equality, no it's not 100% perfect, there are injustices. the same cannot be said of non-Muslims in Muslim lands right now.

You honestly are telling me you can't see the problem with the Kashghari and Sheik Nasir Al-Omar thing? one guy wrote really rather tame offensive comments about the prophet, the other wants his head for writing said comments. your buddy Mr Praline has wrote far more offensive comments about the Prophet on this very forum, if you agree with Al-Omar on Kashgari you should be really wanting Praline's head right now, whether or not he's Muslim is besides the point.

and i'm not doing it for the money man, but i ain't complaining if i made a living trying to expose people to a different way of thinking when it comes to governance. One that's based on reason, individual freedom, and that is flexible enough that it can last throughout time.

i'm not saying secular governance is perfect, but i do believe it's better.

Any ideology that says it can bring about human utopia has proven to only to bring the exact opposite and left billions of lives living in misery.

#61 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6118 posts) -

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]SaudiFury

and i'm not doing it for the money man, but i ain't complaining if i made a living trying to expose people to a different way of thinking when it comes to governance. One that's based on reason, individual freedom, and that is flexible enough that it can last throughout time.

i'm not saying secular governance is perfect, but i do believe it's better.

Any ideology that says it can bring about human utopia has proven to only to bring the exact opposite and left billions of lives living in misery.

I made this long ass reply for all your paragraphs only to get this shoved at my face in the end... I feel betrayed. >_>

As an advice, please stop talking about the Arab World/Muslim World and lose all attachments asap. Just go Western and act like you never came from here. It would be for the best.

#62 Posted by SaudiFury (8707 posts) -

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]Victorious_Fize

and i'm not doing it for the money man, but i ain't complaining if i made a living trying to expose people to a different way of thinking when it comes to governance. One that's based on reason, individual freedom, and that is flexible enough that it can last throughout time.

i'm not saying secular governance is perfect, but i do believe it's better.

Any ideology that says it can bring about human utopia has proven to only to bring the exact opposite and left billions of lives living in misery.

I made this long ass reply for all your paragraphs only to get this shoved at my face in the end... I feel betrayed. >_>

As an advice, please stop talking about the Arab World/Muslim World and lose all attachments asap. Just go Western and act like you never came from here. It would be for the best.

no.
#63 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]SaudiFury

the thing is Fize, it's been 1,400 years, whats the hold up? why has this system of governance never revealed itself in history? You can find poetry and songs written for the old Caliphs as being leaders of Islamic Caliphate, and today we can laugh in ridicule that they were not.

It's been my opinion and observance of modern Arab history, even ancient all the way to the companions of the Prophet, that whenever there's been a Caliph, however way they were ruling, there were always detractors, there were always people who said they were not practicing the 'true' Islam. and this 'game' is still true everytime there is an election or an overthrow of a dictator, 'president', or monarch, they were not practicing 'true' Islam, but the next guy, he will surely establish the Rashidun Caliphate.

The Muslim world insults and demonizes Jews, Christians, Atheists, Gays, and Westerners in general routinely, this is not new in modern Arab history, why get really uptight when some @sshole in the west decide to be disgustingly offensive about Islam and the Prophet? Not to mention the irony that being accused of being violent, then reacting with violence to prove that Islam is not violent. C'mon man it's an oxymoron. We shouldn't be excusing that behavior. Not it's not right to be just be intentionally offensive, it's also really not right to kill someone over that. Not to mention the idiocy of wanting to burn and kill people who only share the nationality of said perpetrators.

and i don't believe in treating non-Muslims as dhimmi, that's not equality, that's apartheid, or worse it could be characterized as a protection racket not that different from the shop keeper paying for protection from the mob. Muslims in most non-Muslim lands today can experience legal equality, no it's not 100% perfect, there are injustices. the same cannot be said of non-Muslims in Muslim lands right now.

You honestly are telling me you can't see the problem with the Kashghari and Sheik Nasir Al-Omar thing? one guy wrote really rather tame offensive comments about the prophet, the other wants his head for writing said comments. your buddy Mr Praline has wrote far more offensive comments about the Prophet on this very forum, if you agree with Al-Omar on Kashgari you should be really wanting Praline's head right now, whether or not he's Muslim is besides the point.

and i'm not doing it for the money man, but i ain't complaining if i made a living trying to expose people to a different way of thinking when it comes to governance. One that's based on reason, individual freedom, and that is flexible enough that it can last throughout time.

i'm not saying secular governance is perfect, but i do believe it's better.

Any ideology that says it can bring about human utopia has proven to only to bring the exact opposite and left billions of lives living in misery.

Respect +1000

#64 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6118 posts) -

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

and i'm not doing it for the money man, but i ain't complaining if i made a living trying to expose people to a different way of thinking when it comes to governance. One that's based on reason, individual freedom, and that is flexible enough that it can last throughout time.

i'm not saying secular governance is perfect, but i do believe it's better.

Any ideology that says it can bring about human utopia has proven to only to bring the exact opposite and left billions of lives living in misery.

SaudiFury

I made this long ass reply for all your paragraphs only to get this shoved at my face in the end... I feel betrayed. >_>

As an advice, please stop talking about the Arab World/Muslim World and lose all attachments asap. Just go Western and act like you never came from here. It would be for the best.

no.

Spoken like a true liberal/tirsh/selebi/mutabil/etc. I bet you j!zzed when you heard the girl who didn't speak Arabic represented us at the olympics or when Badawi's sister got whatever that prize was.

Man, tribes really are the last 'good' Muslims in this place... oh and Jawa, those guys are often nice.

#65 Posted by Harisemo (4133 posts) -

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]Victorious_Fize

and i'm not doing it for the money man, but i ain't complaining if i made a living trying to expose people to a different way of thinking when it comes to governance. One that's based on reason, individual freedom, and that is flexible enough that it can last throughout time.

i'm not saying secular governance is perfect, but i do believe it's better.

Any ideology that says it can bring about human utopia has proven to only to bring the exact opposite and left billions of lives living in misery.

I made this long ass reply for all your paragraphs only to get this shoved at my face in the end... I feel betrayed. >_>

As an advice, please stop talking about the Arab World/Muslim World and lose all attachments asap. Just go Western and act like you never came from here. It would be for the best.

it made me sad to see SaudiFury embrace the dark side :(

#66 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6118 posts) -

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

and i'm not doing it for the money man, but i ain't complaining if i made a living trying to expose people to a different way of thinking when it comes to governance. One that's based on reason, individual freedom, and that is flexible enough that it can last throughout time.

i'm not saying secular governance is perfect, but i do believe it's better.

Any ideology that says it can bring about human utopia has proven to only to bring the exact opposite and left billions of lives living in misery.

Harisemo

I made this long ass reply for all your paragraphs only to get this shoved at my face in the end... I feel betrayed. >_>

As an advice, please stop talking about the Arab World/Muslim World and lose all attachments asap. Just go Western and act like you never came from here. It would be for the best.

it made me sad to see SaudiFury embrace the dark side :(

He always had it in him. I just sympathized because he kept standing up and defending the Arab world, but it's mostly orientalist (someone who has a weird hard-on for the east, as opposed to someone from the actual east that haven't westernized himself) crap, which oddly usually fits the bill.

Now I realize he's just another "Arab" (by language and association more than blood) in KSA that embraces nationalistic liberal (think Turkish CHP) views, they usually do that. I hate those people because they oppose Islam.

#67 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7745 posts) -

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

and i'm not doing it for the money man, but i ain't complaining if i made a living trying to expose people to a different way of thinking when it comes to governance. One that's based on reason, individual freedom, and that is flexible enough that it can last throughout time.

i'm not saying secular governance is perfect, but i do believe it's better.

Any ideology that says it can bring about human utopia has proven to only to bring the exact opposite and left billions of lives living in misery.

Harisemo

I made this long ass reply for all your paragraphs only to get this shoved at my face in the end... I feel betrayed. >_>

As an advice, please stop talking about the Arab World/Muslim World and lose all attachments asap. Just go Western and act like you never came from here. It would be for the best.

it made me sad to see SaudiFury embrace the dark side :(

So freedom of expression and religion is the 'dark side' now? Sign me the fvck up.
#68 Posted by SaudiFury (8707 posts) -

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

I made this long ass reply for all your paragraphs only to get this shoved at my face in the end... I feel betrayed. >_>

As an advice, please stop talking about the Arab World/Muslim World and lose all attachments asap. Just go Western and act like you never came from here. It would be for the best.

Victorious_Fize

no.

Spoken like a true liberal/tirsh/selebi/mutabil/etc. I bet you j!zzed when you heard the girl who didn't speak Arabic represented us at the olympics or when Badawi's sister got whatever that prize was.

Man, tribes really are the last 'good' Muslims in this place... oh and Jawa, those guys are often nice.

I actually was pessimistic about the women in the Olympics, because i knew the Attarh girl wouldn't be considered a true Saudi, having lived most of her life in America. Not to mention the vitrol that was thrown at her and Wojdan for just showing up at the Olympics, on the Arab comment sections, was not that surprising either. it makes me wonder if Saudi will just have to rely on finding foreign-living Saudi girls to just stay in the Olympics from now on. God forbid, women play sports...

as for my 'no', you are obviously taking it personal and getting really defensive in that i'm pushing the ideology i believe (when it comes to governance). We stand on opposite ends, your response is "leave", if everyone did that nothing would ever change. You don't turn your back on family and country (at least up until the point where they're gonna torture and kill you).

Nobody ever thinks they're on the wrong side of history, that they are 'villain' in the story. There's no such thing as the "legion of doom' as it were.

But i will say, if we ever see the Rashidun Caliphate arise in any part of the Sunni Arab world, i hope that you and i live long enough to see how it ends up. Though i gotta say, i'm fairly confident i'll be right, in that it is will be an archaic-law based government that cannot evolve, will set disillusionment in the people, and something similar to the dissolution of Communism would occur.

I also don't find it all too surprising, that i take this stand, and it seems to sting so much worse, but someone with the same views coming from the outside (though i'm sure you've thought of me and others like me as being on the outside) stings a lot less.

but i will say this, say what you think with the power of your conviction, and where you (seem to be) will be quick to kick me out of the saudi 'club' and discussion about Arab/Muslim world, know this.... i'll never kick you out even as we have this big divide when it comes to politics.

and i still like you, even despite this obvious big disagreement.

#69 Posted by sonicare (53451 posts) -

He's just saying that Islam forbids hockey.

#70 Posted by lordreaven (7236 posts) -

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

TopTierHustler

Timothy McVeigh did:|

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

IRA. Catholic vs. Protestant. Don't forget the Witch hunts that CATHOLICS in Africa do to.
#71 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6118 posts) -

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"] no.SaudiFury

Spoken like a true liberal/tirsh/selebi/mutabil/etc. I bet you j!zzed when you heard the girl who didn't speak Arabic represented us at the olympics or when Badawi's sister got whatever that prize was.

Man, tribes really are the last 'good' Muslims in this place... oh and Jawa, those guys are often nice.

I actually was pessimistic about the women in the Olympics, because i knew the Attarh girl wouldn't be considered a true Saudi, having lived most of her life in America. Not to mention the vitrol that was thrown at her and Wojdan for just showing up at the Olympics, on the Arab comment sections, was not that surprising either. it makes me wonder if Saudi will just have to rely on finding foreign-living Saudi girls to just stay in the Olympics from now on. God forbid, women play sports...

as for my 'no', you are obviously taking it personal and getting really defensive in that i'm pushing the ideology i believe (when it comes to governance). We stand on opposite ends, your response is "leave", if everyone did that nothing would ever change. You don't turn your back on family and country (at least up until the point where they're gonna torture and kill you).

Nobody ever thinks they're on the wrong side of history, that they are 'villain' in the story. There's no such thing as the "legion of doom' as it were.

But i will say, if we ever see the Rashidun Caliphate arise in any part of the Sunni Arab world, i hope that you and i live long enough to see how it ends up. Though i gotta say, i'm fairly confident i'll be right, in that it is will be an archaic-law based government that cannot evolve, will set disillusionment in the people, and something similar to the dissolution of Communism would occur.

I also don't find it all too surprising, that i take this stand, and it seems to sting so much worse, but someone with the same views coming from the outside (though i'm sure you've thought of me and others like me as being on the outside) stings a lot less.

but i will say this, say what you think with the power of your conviction, and where you (seem to be) will be quick to kick me out of the saudi 'club' and discussion about Arab/Muslim world, know this.... i'll never kick you out even as we have this big divide when it comes to politics.

and i still like you, even despite this obvious big disagreement.

moving this to PMs...

#72 Posted by Brosephus_Rex (507 posts) -

This whole thing would be easier to resolve over a drink.

#73 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

This whole thing would be easier to resolve over a drink.

Brosephus_Rex
rofl 9/10
#74 Posted by DroidPhysX (17089 posts) -

This whole thing would be easier to resolve over a drink.

Brosephus_Rex
bro why u suspended
#75 Posted by Brosephus_Rex (507 posts) -

[QUOTE="Brosephus_Rex"]

This whole thing would be easier to resolve over a drink.

DroidPhysX

bro why u suspended

I called a topic creator a mean name.

#76 Posted by MannyDelgado (1250 posts) -
Now I realize he's just another "Arab" (by language and association more than blood) in KSA that embraces nationalistic liberal (think Turkish CHP) views, they usually do that. I hate those people because they oppose Islam.Victorious_Fize
Nice to see we have some Muslims here to show us that OP was right
#77 Posted by DroidPhysX (17089 posts) -
[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]Now I realize he's just another "Arab" (by language and association more than blood) in KSA that embraces nationalistic liberal (think Turkish CHP) views, they usually do that. I hate those people because they oppose Islam.MannyDelgado
Nice to see we have some Muslims here to show us that OP was right

lol
#78 Posted by MirkoS77 (7168 posts) -

The only thing compatible with Islam is Islam.

#79 Posted by white_wolf922 (257 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

TopTierHustler

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

Abortion clinics are buildings.

#80 Posted by MannyDelgado (1250 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

white_wolf922

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

Abortion clinics are buildings.

>tfw when well-meaming dimwits think they can reasonably equate the endless stream of Muslim terrorist atrocities with the incredibly rare instances of Christian terrorism
#81 Posted by white_wolf922 (257 posts) -

[QUOTE="white_wolf922"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

MannyDelgado

Abortion clinics are buildings.

>tfw when well-meaming dimwits think they can reasonably equate the endless stream of Muslim terrorist atrocities with the incredibly rare instances of Christian terrorism

Well we could take the long view and look at Christianity's history of violence and oppression. It's as least as bad as Islam's. Religion and politics should not mix, end of story.

#82 Posted by mAArdman (1612 posts) -

The only thing compatible with Islam is Islam.

MirkoS77



That's very deep.

#83 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6118 posts) -
[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]Now I realize he's just another "Arab" (by language and association more than blood) in KSA that embraces nationalistic liberal (think Turkish CHP) views, they usually do that. I hate those people because they oppose Islam.MannyDelgado
Nice to see we have some Muslims here to show us that OP was right

I'm not one to contest otherwise as I don't particularly like liberalism, but you do realize CHP is a party majorly supported by Muslims/cultural Muslims/people of Muslim origin, don't you?
#84 Posted by MannyDelgado (1250 posts) -

[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"][QUOTE="white_wolf922"]

Abortion clinics are buildings.

white_wolf922

>tfw when well-meaming dimwits think they can reasonably equate the endless stream of Muslim terrorist atrocities with the incredibly rare instances of Christian terrorism

Well we could take the long view and look at Christianity's history of violence and oppression. It's as least as bad as Islam's. Religion and politics should not mix, end of story.

You could indeed, and that would be irrelevant because we are talking about the present day. Try harder.
#85 Posted by white_wolf922 (257 posts) -

[QUOTE="white_wolf922"]

[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"]>tfw when well-meaming dimwits think they can reasonably equate the endless stream of Muslim terrorist atrocities with the incredibly rare instances of Christian terrorismMannyDelgado

Well we could take the long view and look at Christianity's history of violence and oppression. It's as least as bad as Islam's. Religion and politics should not mix, end of story.

You could indeed, and that would be irrelevant because we are talking about the present day. Try harder.

So? My only point is that Christianity can be just as violent and brutal as Islam. I'm simply sick of all these Christians acting like their relgions has never done anything wrong when it can be as brutal as anything else.

#87 Posted by MannyDelgado (1250 posts) -

[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"][QUOTE="white_wolf922"]

Well we could take the long view and look at Christianity's history of violence and oppression. It's as least as bad as Islam's. Religion and politics should not mix, end of story.

white_wolf922

You could indeed, and that would be irrelevant because we are talking about the present day. Try harder.

So? My only point is that Christianity can be just as violent and brutal as Islam. I'm simply sick of all these Christians acting like their relgions has never done anything wrong when it can be as brutal as anything else.

It can be, yes, but at the present time it is not. This is pretty much an inarguable fact. I know that some of the dumber elements of the left like to pull the 'just as bad as each other' card with respect to religion, but it's not really the case.

#88 Posted by MannyDelgado (1250 posts) -
[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"][QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]Now I realize he's just another "Arab" (by language and association more than blood) in KSA that embraces nationalistic liberal (think Turkish CHP) views, they usually do that. I hate those people because they oppose Islam.Victorious_Fize
Nice to see we have some Muslims here to show us that OP was right

I'm not one to contest otherwise as I don't particularly like liberalism, but you do realize CHP is a party majorly supported by Muslims/cultural Muslims/people of Muslim origin, don't you?

Well, obviously. I hope you're not implying, however, that that contradicts my argument. Then you'd look rather silly.
#89 Posted by white_wolf922 (257 posts) -

[QUOTE="white_wolf922"]

[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"]You could indeed, and that would be irrelevant because we are talking about the present day. Try harder.MannyDelgado

So? My only point is that Christianity can be just as violent and brutal as Islam. I'm simply sick of all these Christians acting like their relgions has never done anything wrong when it can be as brutal as anything else.

It can be, yes, but at the present time it is not. This is pretty much an inarguable fact. I know that some of the dumber elements of the left like to pull the 'just as bad as each other' card with respect to religion, but it's not really the case.

Pretty much all of the 3 Monotheistcreligions are just as bad as each other. They are all full of superstitious myths that would be better off left in the past.

#90 Posted by MannyDelgado (1250 posts) -

[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"]

[QUOTE="white_wolf922"]

So? My only point is that Christianity can be just as violent and brutal as Islam. I'm simply sick of all these Christians acting like their relgions has never done anything wrong when it can be as brutal as anything else.

white_wolf922

It can be, yes, but at the present time it is not. This is pretty much an inarguable fact. I know that some of the dumber elements of the left like to pull the 'just as bad as each other' card with respect to religion, but it's not really the case.

Pretty much all of the 3 Monotheistcreligions are just as bad as each other. They are all full of superstitious myths that would be better off left in the past. The Bible is as full of as much nonsense as the Quran and why anyone takes it seriously I'll never understand.

As should be obvious to you, I wasn't referring to their veracity; clearly all three are pretty much equally ridiculous. I was referring to their social effects in the forms in which they current exist.
#91 Posted by lordreaven (7236 posts) -
[QUOTE="white_wolf922"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

MannyDelgado

Abortion clinics are buildings.

>tfw when well-meaming dimwits think they can reasonably equate the endless stream of Muslim terrorist atrocities with the incredibly rare instances of Christian terrorism

How about the daily witch hunts in Africa?
#92 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6118 posts) -
[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"][QUOTE="MannyDelgado"]Nice to see we have some Muslims here to show us that OP was rightMannyDelgado
I'm not one to contest otherwise as I don't particularly like liberalism, but you do realize CHP is a party majorly supported by Muslims/cultural Muslims/people of Muslim origin, don't you?

Well, obviously. I hope you're not implying, however, that that contradicts my argument. Then you'd look rather silly.

Why of course not as I don't really consider them true Muslims anyway. ^-^
#93 Posted by BranKetra (48175 posts) -

Read this article

If you don't feel like reading the entire thing here's one interesting exerpt.

"Speaking last year at the launch of a book by Zafar Bangash, a Muslim activist in Toronto, Kambiz Sheikh-Hassani, Irans now-expelled chargé daffaires, told the audience: You live in Canada. Liberal democracy is not compatible with our way of life."

Why is ok for them to say it but not us ? We are racist when we state the obvious but they acknowledge it. Why do you want to move to the west knowing your way of life isn't compatible and attempt to change our way of life. This will never happen. Ever.

It is not racist or bigotted for me to say so either. The true racists & bigots are those who refuse to question their ideaology & belief system in response to different views & react with violence.

Skarwolf

A liberal democracy is a type of government in which representative democracy operates under the principles of liberalism. That is different from race which is a classification of humans' heritable phenotypic characteristics, geographic ancestry, physical appearance, ethnicity, and social status. Therefore, to be against liberal democracy is not racism. However, what was said in Toronto, Canada is an example of bigotry which is against particular groups including those who pertain to a political alignment.

#94 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

Victorious_Fize

As an advice, please stop talking about the Arab World/Muslim World and lose all attachments asap. Just go Western and act like you never came from here. It would be for the best.

Your elitism is so charming.

#95 Posted by lo_Pine (5048 posts) -
Islam is not compatriot able with the way the world works now. That's why there are so many frustrated young people chanting death to America. Their values don't pertain to the world America made.
#96 Posted by sonicare (53451 posts) -

Freedom or religion, freedom of expression & speech, right to life, and basic human rights are generally not compatible with many religions/religous laws. I'd side with freedom every time.

#97 Posted by MirkoS77 (7168 posts) -

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

The only thing compatible with Islam is Islam.

mAArdman



That's very deep.

Why thank you.

#98 Posted by WiiCubeM1 (4727 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

TopTierHustler

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

We used to...

#99 Posted by thebest31406 (3323 posts) -
Any real move to democracy in the ME is always smashed by the West, particularly the US. They fund and give arms to coups, terrorist, and puppet governments so that they can work in the US interests. There's plenty of credible investigative and scholarly work that can confirm this and with the internet, the info can be easily accessed. So anyone who talks this "ME is non democratic" rubbish is completely unwilling to do basic research on the matter.
#100 Posted by sSubZerOo (43082 posts) -

Any real move to democracy in the ME is always smashed by the West, particularly the US. They fund and give arms to coups, terrorist, and puppet governments so that they can work in the US interests. There's plenty of credible investigative and scholarly work that can confirm this and with the internet, the info can be easily accessed. So anyone who talks this "ME is non democratic" rubbish is completely unwilling to do basic research on the matter.thebest31406
People don't even realize that Iran was actually a secular country with a democratically elected president in the past.. This was before US and Great Britian over threw him..