It is not racist to question Obama's citizenship

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

No you don't, that's not in the Constitution

lostrib

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.Article II section 1

You are mistaken.

No, idiot. It's not in the Constitution that we have to investigate their influences. And not everyone agrees that is how the Constitution should be interpreted

Also noticed Lai avoids questions that gets him butthurt.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[quote="Article II section 1"]No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.Laihendi

You are mistaken.

No, idiot. It's not in the Constitution that we have to investigate their influences. And not everyone agrees that is how the Constitution should be interpreted

Please tell me how the Founding Fathers included women's rights, minority rights, slavery, 21st century defense technology, 21st century politics, 21st century medicine and the 21st century economy in their plans.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Dread Scott v Sandford Knox v Lee Plessy v Ferguson Schenk v United States Nebbia v New York Perry v United States Wickard v Filburn Korematsu v United States United States v Alcoa Florence v Board of Chosen Freeholders National Federation of Independent Business v SebeliusLaihendi

I asked for examples of corruption, not rulings that you don't like.

Please cite how each case explicitly contradicts the Constitution.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

No, idiot. It's not in the Constitution that we have to investigate their influences. And not everyone agrees that is how the Constitution should be interpreted

jimkabrhel

Please tell me how the Founding Fathers included women's rights, minority rights, slavery, 21st century defense technology, 21st century politics, 21st century medicine and the 21st century economy in their plans.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[quote="Article II section 1"]No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.Laihendi

You are mistaken.

No, idiot. It's not in the Constitution that we have to investigate their influences. And not everyone agrees that is how the Constitution should be interpreted

Plenty of people take it as it's written. In addition, you listed two people that you say were influenced by Vattel, but there were like 40 signers of the Constitution and more than that who helped write it at the Constitutional Convention.  Have fun proving that they agree with this idea of natural born citizen, or at least a majority.  In addition, SCOTUS, created by the founding fathers and Constitution to uphold the laws laid out by the Constitution, have defined "all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens;" thus making it the law of the land, and until that changes, Obama is a natural born citizen and legitimate President.  Any court cases regarding this have been dismissed by SCOTUS and lower courts.

And more important, this entire conspiracy theory is idiotic, there is nothing to gain from it being right, if that were at all possible.  Just drop it and instead focus on Obama's/Democrats policies, which are actual, justified criticisms 

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Please tell me how we are to determine the intention of the laws established by the founders without investigating their influences. I really would like to know. Also please tell me what the purpose of a law is if you "interpret" it into being whatever you want it to mean, regardless of what it was actually supposed to mean.Laihendi

Please tell me how the Founding Fathers included women's rights, minority rights, slavery, 21st century defense technology, 21st century politics, 21st century medicine and the 21st century economy in their plans.

"The US government was founded to protect individual liberties. Women and minorities have almost all of the legal rights white males have."

So the US Government does not protect the individual liberties of women and minorities, as they are not equal to white men.

Do not assume that I explicitly trust everything the government says and does. I do not. I do think that it is the one of the job of the US government to provide oversight for medicine and much techonolgy so that the individual liberties of citizens are not infringed upon by unscrupulous companies who would provide inferior products and serives that would, at best, trick consumers, and at worst, hurt them.

A person who supports the government isn't necessary a blind follower, particularly and education person. Don't make assumptions you cannot support.

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

Its not racist. Its just stupid. Even the requirement is stupid.

Laihendi

Obama does not respect personal responsibility. Obama does not respect freedom of speech. Obama does not respect habeas corpus - the concept of being innocent until proven guilty.

Wait, Laihendi's a birther?mattbbpl

I am so sick of hearing about Obama's motherfvcking birth certificate.22Toothpicks

[QUOTE="22Toothpicks"]I am so sick of hearing about Obama's motherfvcking birth certificate.nocoolnamejim

Of course not, Just because someone is a f*cking idiot doesn't mean they are always racist.

why does it matter if he is not from US?

why does it matter if he is not from US?

osirisx3

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

why does it matter if he is not from US?

nocoolnamejim

I am not saying that he isn't American, I am just saying that it is a legitimate question to ask if he is really a natural born citizen. He was born with dual-citizenship to the UK and the US, and then became a legal citizen of Kenya after it became an independent country. This is due to his father who was never legally recognized as an American citizen. 

This is significant because if we use the definition of natural born citizen established by Emerich de Vattel in his The Law of Nations (a book known to have been read by Benjamin Franklin and George Washington, among other early US politicians) then we see that Obama is actually not a natural citizen, which is a constitutional requirement to be president of the US. Since the term "natural citizen" is never explicitly defined in the constitution, we cannot actually know for sure what the founders meant by it, but it is not a stretch to consider that they had Vattel's definition in mind.

[quote="Emerich de Vattel"]The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.Laihendi

Obama's supporters are quick to accuse anyone bringing this up as being racist but this has nothing to do with race - it is a matter of interpreting the laws established by the founders.

BBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Also, I thought the not being a citizen thing applied to Mexicans, not black people.

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="osirisx3"]

why does it matter if he is not from US?

22Toothpicks

it's america

[QUOTE="22Toothpicks"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] From a legal standpoint, it would disqualify him to be president if he was not a "natural born U.S. citizen" per the U.S. Constitution. lostrib

it's america

It's not inherently racist, but it often is in practice. The issue would have never gained traction if it wasn't for Obama's "otherness."

It's not racist, it's just downright stupid. He's a citizen of this country who's born in Hawaii and that's that. End of story. Kapeesh?

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="osirisx3"]

why does it matter if he is not from US?

22Toothpicks

But what if Obama's a British double agent who's secretly in cahoots with the British Empire!? :o

Wait....this again? :?

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="osirisx3"]

why does it matter if he is not from US?

22Toothpicks

[QUOTE="22Toothpicks"]I am so sick of hearing about Obama's motherfvcking birth certificate.nocoolnamejim

And this isn't a matter of evidence or conspiracy. Obama is arguably not a natural born citizen, because a legitimate interpretation of natural-born citizen (with regards to American law) requires both parents to be citizens as well. Obama's father was never a US citizen.Laihendi

No. Obama is a natural born citizen according to the laws and courts of this country. What some French political philosopher from the mid-1700s might have thought is not relevant here. This might be the most laughably pathetic attempt at de-legitimizing the President that I've seen yet. You should give up and just focus your energies on Pokemon and Elijah Wood, as your efforts at political argument are atrocious.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]And this isn't a matter of evidence or conspiracy. Obama is arguably not a natural born citizen, because a legitimate interpretation of natural-born citizen (with regards to American law) requires both parents to be citizens as well. Obama's father was never a US citizen.worlock77

No. Obama is a natural born citizen according to the laws and courts of this country. What some French political philosopher from the mid-1700s might have thought is not relevant here. This might be the most laughably pathetic attempt at de-legitimizing the President that I've seen yet. You should give up and just focus your energies on Pokemon and Elijah Wood, as your efforts at political argument are atrocious.

+1

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]School prayer is not explicitly mentioned in the constitution. The requirement of being a natural-born citizen to be president is, and to understand what they meant by natural-born citizen we have to investigate their influences.Laihendi

But here's the thing - Vattel does not define what our legal system qualifies as "natural born." Our legal system decides what qualifies as "natural born" in this country. What would happen if you tried to bring up Vattel in court? Apart from having the judge roll his or her eyes at you, not a whole lot. You don't seem to get this.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]And this isn't a matter of evidence or conspiracy. Obama is arguably not a natural born citizen, because a legitimate interpretation of natural-born citizen (with regards to American law) requires both parents to be citizens as well. Obama's father was never a US citizen.worlock77

No. Obama is a natural born citizen according to the laws and courts of this country. What some French political philosopher from the mid-1700s might have thought is not relevant here. This might be the most laughably pathetic attempt at de-legitimizing the President that I've seen yet. You should give up and just focus your energies on Pokemon and Elijah Wood, as your efforts at political argument are atrocious.

[QUOTE="22Toothpicks"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] From a legal standpoint, it would disqualify him to be president if he was not a "natural born U.S. citizen" per the U.S. Constitution. Laihendi

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]And this isn't a matter of evidence or conspiracy. Obama is arguably not a natural born citizen, because a legitimate interpretation of natural-born citizen (with regards to American law) requires both parents to be citizens as well. Obama's father was never a US citizen.Laihendi

No. Obama is a natural born citizen according to the laws and courts of this country. What some French political philosopher from the mid-1700s might have thought is not relevant here. This might be the most laughably pathetic attempt at de-legitimizing the President that I've seen yet. You should give up and just focus your energies on Pokemon and Elijah Wood, as your efforts at political argument are atrocious.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Oooooor we could just go by, y'know... the Constitution. Fourteenth Amendment grants citizenship to anyone born on American soil. Ipso facto, natural born. Even going by your logic, well, his mother was a US citizen. I don't see why it *has* to be the father, except that the dude you're quoting is an old patriarchal fart. So yeah. You really got nothing.PannicAtack

But here's the thing - Vattel does not define what our legal system qualifies as "natural born." Our legal system decides what qualifies as "natural born" in this country. What would happen if you tried to bring up Vattel in court? Apart from having the judge roll his or her eyes at you, not a whole lot. You don't seem to get this.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]There is a difference between being a citizen and a natural-born citizen. According to de Vattel both of Obama's parents would have to be citizens for him to be classified as a natural-born citizen. I am not saying that Obama is not a citizen, but the constitution explicitly states that he must be a natural-born citizen.Laihendi

But here's the thing - Vattel does not define what our legal system qualifies as "natural born." Our legal system decides what qualifies as "natural born" in this country. What would happen if you tried to bring up Vattel in court? Apart from having the judge roll his or her eyes at you, not a whole lot. You don't seem to get this.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]And this isn't a matter of evidence or conspiracy. Obama is arguably not a natural born citizen, because a legitimate interpretation of natural-born citizen (with regards to American law) requires both parents to be citizens as well. Obama's father was never a US citizen.Laihendi

No. Obama is a natural born citizen according to the laws and courts of this country. What some French political philosopher from the mid-1700s might have thought is not relevant here. This might be the most laughably pathetic attempt at de-legitimizing the President that I've seen yet. You should give up and just focus your energies on Pokemon and Elijah Wood, as your efforts at political argument are atrocious.

No, he is not relevant. That he may have influenced Washington, Franklin or whoever else is not relevant. His words are not the law of the United States. If the Founding Fathers had intended that the father be a US citizen in order for a person to be a "Natural Born" citizen then they would have wrote such requirement into the Constitution.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="22Toothpicks"] Which is a crock IMO. We've never had anything but American born leaders attempting to institute their American ideas into our American brains and look at where it's gotten us; give someone else a whack at it...22Toothpicks

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]There is a difference between being a citizen and a natural-born citizen. According to de Vattel both of Obama's parents would have to be citizens for him to be classified as a natural-born citizen. I am not saying that Obama is not a citizen, but the constitution explicitly states that he must be a natural-born citizen.Laihendi

But here's the thing - Vattel does not define what our legal system qualifies as "natural born." Our legal system decides what qualifies as "natural born" in this country. What would happen if you tried to bring up Vattel in court? Apart from having the judge roll his or her eyes at you, not a whole lot. You don't seem to get this.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"] No, according to the Vattel excerpt you quoted it's just the father. Pretty sexist, honestly.

But here's the thing - Vattel does not define what our legal system qualifies as "natural born." Our legal system decides what qualifies as "natural born" in this country. What would happen if you tried to bring up Vattel in court? Apart from having the judge roll his or her eyes at you, not a whole lot. You don't seem to get this.

PannicAtack