Israeli poll finds majority in favour of "apartheid" policies

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#1 Posted by Aljosa23 (25135 posts) -

More than two-thirds of Israeli Jews say that 2.5 million Palestinians living in the West Bank should be denied the right to vote if the area was annexed byIsrael, in effect endorsing an apartheid state,according to an opinion poll reported in Haaretz.

Three out of four are in favour of segregated roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank, and 58% believe Israel already practises apartheid against Palestinians, the poll found.

A third want Arab citizens within Israel to be banned from voting in elections to the country's parliament. Almost six out of 10 say Jews should be given preference to Arabs in government jobs, 49% say Jewish citizens should be treated better than Arabs, 42% would not want to live in the same building as Arabs and the same number do not want their children going to school with Arabs.

A commentary by Gideon Levy, which accompanied the results of the poll, described the findings as disturbing. "Israelis themselves are openly, shamelessly and guiltlessly defining themselves as nationalistic racists," he wrote.

"It's good to live in this country, most Israelis say, not despite its racism, but perhaps because of it. If such a survey were released about the attitude to Jews in a European state, Israel would have raised hell. When it comes to us, the rules don't apply."

The poll was conducted by a public opinion firm, Dialog, which interviewed 503 people out of an Israeli Jewish population of just under 6 million.

Talk of the possible annexation of the West Bank, or the main settlement blocks within it, has increased in recent months as expectations of a negotiated settlement to the conflict have sunk to an all-time low. Israel's defence minister, Ehud Barak, recently argued for the annexation of land between the internationally recognised Green Line and the Israeli-built separation barrier.

The poll results will bolster the claim of Israel's Arab citizens, who make up 20% of the population, that they suffer from racist discrimination. Almost half the poll's respondents said Israeli Arabs should be transferred to the Palestinian Authority, and a third said that Arab towns in Israel should be moved to the PA's jurisdiction in exchange for Jewish settlements in the West Bank.

According to the Haaretz report, the survey found that ultra-Orthodox Jews held the most extreme views about Arabs, with 70% supporting a legal ban on voting rights and 95% backing discrimination against Arabs in the workplace.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/23/israeli-poll-majority-apartheid-policies

I know very little aboot this Israel/Palestine shenanigans so have at it, OT.

#2 Posted by DroidPhysX (17089 posts) -
Wonder what shadowmosses thinks about this.
#3 Posted by Aljosa23 (25135 posts) -

Wonder what shadowmosses thinks about this.DroidPhysX
Yeah I wonder how he'll spin it to make Israelis the victim in this situation lol

#4 Posted by MrPraline (21321 posts) -

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Wonder what shadowmosses thinks about this.Aljosa23

Yeah I wonder how he'll spin it to make Israelis the victim in this situation lol

It's a defense force, bruv. Or something.
#5 Posted by sSubZerOo (43216 posts) -

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Wonder what shadowmosses thinks about this.Aljosa23

Yeah I wonder how he'll spin it to make Israelis the victim in this situation lol

Probably cite something like voter fraud, its working in the United States..

#6 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -
Wonder what shadowmosses thinks about this.DroidPhysX
#7 Posted by Aljosa23 (25135 posts) -

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Wonder what shadowmosses thinks about this.sSubZerOo

Yeah I wonder how he'll spin it to make Israelis the victim in this situation lol

Probably cite something like voter fraud, its working in the United States..

The voter fraud myth is definitely the most despicable thing in this election.

#8 Posted by Abbeten (2898 posts) -
Wonder what shadowmosses thinks about this.DroidPhysX
It's totally self-defense!
#9 Posted by jimkabrhel (15420 posts) -

This thread should be fun. Shame kraychik isn't around.

#10 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

Gideon Levy is obviously a self hating Jew

#11 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

calling BS on this...

#12 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -

calling BS on this...

kingkong0124
why?
#13 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

calling BS on this...

l4dak47

why?

503 people

Too small, to be honest. I don't think that's enough people to say "most Israelis are in favour of apartheid" policies. Also, I'd like to see this same poll, with the same methodology, conducted on the Palestinians..

#14 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

calling BS on this...

kingkong0124

why?

503 people

Too small, to be honest. I don't think that's enough people to say "most Israelis are in favour of apartheid" policies. Also, I'd like to see this same poll, with the same methodology, conducted on the Palestinians..

500 is fine. why would it matter what the Palestinians thought? This thread is not about them.
#15 Posted by KC_Hokie (16099 posts) -
Why should non-Israeli citizens be able to vote?
#16 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] why? l4dak47

503 people

Too small, to be honest. I don't think that's enough people to say "most Israelis are in favour of apartheid" policies. Also, I'd like to see this same poll, with the same methodology, conducted on the Palestinians..

500 is fine. why would it matter what the Palestinians thought? This thread is not about them.

503 out of 6 million...and it's be interesting to see what the Palestinians think given some of the posts in this thread..might surprise some.

#17 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
Well that's pretty terrible. Also that sample size is actually pretty decent. Could be better but it's not bad.
#18 Posted by jimkabrhel (15420 posts) -

I guess if 500 is a bad number for a poll, that invalidates most of the polling that's going on in the US right now.

#19 Posted by chessmaster1989 (29395 posts) -
Sad. Although I'm waiting for ShadowMoses to come in and defend this.
#20 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

503 people

Too small, to be honest. I don't think that's enough people to say "most Israelis are in favour of apartheid" policies. Also, I'd like to see this same poll, with the same methodology, conducted on the Palestinians..

kingkong0124

500 is fine. why would it matter what the Palestinians thought? This thread is not about them.

503 out of 6 million...and it's be interesting to see what the Palestinians think given some of the posts in this thread..might surprise some.

That's how statistics work. Also, stop deflecting from the issue here.
#21 Posted by LordQuorthon (5350 posts) -

Chosen people/Bible says/onlydemocracyinthemiddleeastthereforetheygettodoastheyplease.

#22 Posted by Aljosa23 (25135 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

calling BS on this...

kingkong0124

why?

503 people

Too small, to be honest. I don't think that's enough people to say "most Israelis are in favour of apartheid" policies. Also, I'd like to see this same poll, with the same methodology, conducted on the Palestinians..

503 people is fine for a poll of this sort. Besides, there's no reason to believe they messed up in the sampling.

The part about the very orthodox jews is scary.

#23 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] 500 is fine. why would it matter what the Palestinians thought? This thread is not about them. l4dak47

503 out of 6 million...and it's be interesting to see what the Palestinians think given some of the posts in this thread..might surprise some.

That's how statistics work. Also, stop deflecting from the issue here.

I'm not deflecting...but hey, if you want to believe what a well known biased news organization says, go ahead...

#24 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

503 out of 6 million...and it's be interesting to see what the Palestinians think given some of the posts in this thread..might surprise some.

kingkong0124

That's how statistics work. Also, stop deflecting from the issue here.

I'm not deflecting...but hey, if you want to believe what a well known biased news organization says, go ahead...

You do that all the time so I don't really see why you would talk down to others for doing so.
#25 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

503 out of 6 million...and it's be interesting to see what the Palestinians think given some of the posts in this thread..might surprise some.

kingkong0124

That's how statistics work. Also, stop deflecting from the issue here.

I'm not deflecting...but hey, if you want to believe what a well known biased news organization says, go ahead...

I haven't taken a stance on this, actually. I'm just simply pointing out that you are attempting to deflect the issue.
#26 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] That's how statistics work. Also, stop deflecting from the issue here. Ace6301

I'm not deflecting...but hey, if you want to believe what a well known biased news organization says, go ahead...

You do that all the time so I don't really see why you would talk down to others for doing so.

The source doesn't matter, what matters is the information. The source is crap, and so is the information in this case...It's obvious that this study is trying to make Israelis look bad..I think a better idea would be to conduct the same polling on Palestinians and then compare it to the results of this polling on the Israelis...you actually get a better picture of the whole issue that way.

#27 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -
Why should non-Israeli citizens be able to vote? KC_Hokie
lol, so if annexed, they wouldnt be Israeli citizens?
#28 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

I haven't taken a stance on this, actually. I'm just simply pointing out that you are attempting to deflect the issue. l4dak47

You already have a stance on this man, just admit to it..You're not fooling anybody.

#29 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

I'm not deflecting...but hey, if you want to believe what a well known biased news organization says, go ahead...

kingkong0124

You do that all the time so I don't really see why you would talk down to others for doing so.

The source doesn't matter, what matters is the information. The source is crap, and so is the information in this case...It's obvious that this study is trying to make Israelis look bad..I think a better idea would be to conduct the same polling on Palestinians and then compare it to the results of this polling on the Israelis...you actually get a better picture of the whole issue that way.

How is it obvious?
#30 Posted by Vac87 (277 posts) -

There are only 12 million Jews left in the world. There are over 1 billion Muslims. In order for the Jews to survive, they must have seperation from other cultures. This is why Israel was created.

Anyway, so what? Most Muslims support restricting the rights of non-Muslims in Islamic states. Some support the outright destruction of the Jews.

#31 Posted by KC_Hokie (16099 posts) -
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Why should non-Israeli citizens be able to vote? BossPerson
lol, so if annexed, they wouldnt be Israeli citizens?

They aren't is what I'm saying. There are plenty of non Jewish-Isreali citizens (25% of population).
#32 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

I haven't taken a stance on this, actually. I'm just simply pointing out that you are attempting to deflect the issue. kingkong0124

You already have a stance on this man, just admit to it..You're not fooling anybody.

o rly? please show post with stance then.
#33 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

I'm not deflecting...but hey, if you want to believe what a well known biased news organization says, go ahead...

kingkong0124

You do that all the time so I don't really see why you would talk down to others for doing so.

The source doesn't matter, what matters is the information. The source is crap, and so is the information in this case...It's obvious that this study is trying to make Israelis look bad..I think a better idea would be to conduct the same polling on Palestinians and then compare it to the results of this polling on the Israelis...you actually get a better picture of the whole issue that way.

How is the information crap in this case? Why does it matter what the Palestinians think? Israel is a democracy and as you seem to like to think a bastion of freedom. However the views shown in this study seem to challenge that view. Seems to me you're just upset.
#34 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

How is it obvious? l4dak47

It unfairly singles out Israelis and then claims the majority are in favor of apartheid policies when it disregards the fact that Arabs, under the same polling methods, would get the same, if not worse, results.

#35 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

Fact is, it's a very tragic conflict. Both sides have done wrong. With Palestine, you have destructive Islamic ideology, terrorism, and Hamas. Because Palestine and other Arab countries try to constantly f*ck over Israel, it becomes understandable why many Israelis have this hatred. It's a sad situtation, all around, on both sides...

#36 Posted by KC_Hokie (16099 posts) -

Fact is, it's a very tragic conflict. Both sides have done wrong. With Palestine, you have destructive Islamic ideology, terrorism, and Hamas. Because Palestine and other Arab countries try to constantly f*ck over Israel, it becomes understandable why many Israelis have this hatred. It's a sad situtation, all around, on both sides...

kingkong0124
Don't forget 25% of Israelis are non-Jewish. They don't favor giving 2.5 Palestinians citizenship either.
#37 Posted by Aljosa23 (25135 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] How is it obvious? kingkong0124

It unfairly singles out Israelis and then claims the majority are in favor of apartheid policies when it disregards the fact that Arabs, under the same polling methods, would get the same, if not worse, results.

Do you have any proof that it unfairly singles out Israelis? Besides, the Arabs opinion isn't part of the study. If they believe the same thing then yeah okay, they're bad too, but that doesn't take away from the Israelis' position.

#38 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

How is the information crap in this case? Why does it matter what the Palestinians think? Israel is a democracy and as you seem to like to think a bastion of freedom. However the views shown in this study seem to challenge that view. Seems to me you're just upset.Ace6301

The polling for one is questionable, and is certainly not the best, as you admitted yourself. The Palestinians' opinions matter as it changes the whole dynamics of the results - rather than singling out Israelis for these so-called "apartheid" policies, it becomes clear that both sides of the conflict are in favor of these apartheid policies, not just Israel. This contradicts the goal of this poll, which is trying to single out Israelis and make them look bad.

#39 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] How is it obvious? kingkong0124

It unfairly singles out Israelis and then claims the majority are in favor of apartheid policies when it disregards the fact that Arabs, under the same polling methods, would get the same, if not worse, results.

Only the poll was conducted on the Israelis so obvs they're the ones we only talk about. The poll doesn't claim that, the Israelis have said that they are in favor in apartheid policies. Again, we're not talking about the Palestinians nor would it matter as much as they do not claim to be a democratic state.
#40 Posted by Aljosa23 (25135 posts) -

kk on hardcore damage control

#41 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] How is it obvious? l4dak47

It unfairly singles out Israelis and then claims the majority are in favor of apartheid policies when it disregards the fact that Arabs, under the same polling methods, would get the same, if not worse, results.

Only the poll was conducted on the Israelis so obvs they're the ones we only talk about. The poll doesn't claim that, the Israelis have said that they are in favor in apartheid policies. Again, we're not talking about the Palestinians nor would it matter as much as they do not claim to be a democratic state.

The polling is about Israel's view of the Palestinians. It'd only be fair to see the Palestinians view of the Israelis. That way, we know both sides of the story, and, because of that, it doesn't lead to the assumption that Israelis are somehow worse than the Palestinians. As I said before, it's a tragic conflict, both sides. The Palestinians and their allies, fueled by violent Islamic ideology, constantly harass Israel. Because of this, it becomes understandable why many Israelis would hold this view, if the polling results were indeed true.

#42 Posted by GazaAli (23030 posts) -
Haartz is crap KK? WTF are you talking about exactly? Also, Haartz is an Israeli newspaper/news agency, why do they need to make the poll with a Palestinian sample? All in all, I wouldn't expect a better result from a Palestinian sample, but at least we are being perceived as Islamists, terrorists nutjobs, unlike Israel who promotes itself as a shining beacon of democracy and freedom in the Middle East.
#43 Posted by GazaAli (23030 posts) -

kk on hardcore damage control

Aljosa23
I've been mostly lurking lately but damn those KK posts got on my nerves.
#44 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

Haartz is crap KK? WTF are you talking about exactly? Also, Haartz is an Israeli newspaper/news agency, why do they need to make the poll with a Palestinian sample? All in all, I wouldn't expect a better result from a Palestinian sample, but at least we are being perceived as Islamists, terrorists nutjobs, unlike Israel who promotes itself as a shining beacon of democracy and freedom in the Middle East.GazaAli

They are left-wing man, like it or not. No country is exempt from the harmful effects of violence...and Israel still is a shining beacon of democracy, this one poll doesn't mean crap.

#45 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

It unfairly singles out Israelis and then claims the majority are in favor of apartheid policies when it disregards the fact that Arabs, under the same polling methods, would get the same, if not worse, results.

kingkong0124

Only the poll was conducted on the Israelis so obvs they're the ones we only talk about. The poll doesn't claim that, the Israelis have said that they are in favor in apartheid policies. Again, we're not talking about the Palestinians nor would it matter as much as they do not claim to be a democratic state.

The polling is about Israel's view of the Palestinians. It'd only be fair to see the Palestinians view of the Israelis. That way, we know both sides of the story, and, because of that, it doesn't lead to the assumption that Israelis are somehow worse than the Palestinians. As I said before, it's a tragic conflict, both sides. The Palestinians and their allies, fueled by violent Islamic ideology, constantly harass Israel. Because of this, it becomes understandable why many Israelis would hold this view, if the polling results were indeed true.

No one thus far has claimed that Palestinians are better than the Israelis on this issue. We are only saying that this poll is showing the hypocrisy of the claim that Israelis promote/want a democratic state for everyone.
#46 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -

No one thus far has claimed that Palestinians are better than the Israelis on this issue. We are only saying that this poll is showing the hypocrisy of the claim that Israelis promote/want a democratic state for everyone. l4dak47

One poll is enough to show hypocrisy of a country w/ 6 million?..1 poll is 1 poll, several hundred polls indicate a trend. I see no trend, I see one outlier.

And there are posts in this thread that imply Palestinians are better than Israelis, I'm not a fool.

#47 Posted by GazaAli (23030 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Haartz is crap KK? WTF are you talking about exactly? Also, Haartz is an Israeli newspaper/news agency, why do they need to make the poll with a Palestinian sample? All in all, I wouldn't expect a better result from a Palestinian sample, but at least we are being perceived as Islamists, terrorists nutjobs, unlike Israel who promotes itself as a shining beacon of democracy and freedom in the Middle East.kingkong0124

They are left-wing man, like it or not. No country is exempt from the harmful effects of violence...and Israel still is a shining beacon of democracy, this one poll doesn't mean crap.

They are left wing yes I know, so what? Anything that is not hardcore right wing is automatically discredited and disregarded? If Israeli is a shining beacon of democracy, I do not want to live in this world anymore.
#48 Posted by LordQuorthon (5350 posts) -

I've been mostly lurking lately GazaAli

Planning a terrorist attack, no doubt.

#49 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -
[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

Fact is, it's a very tragic conflict. Both sides have done wrong. With Palestine, you have destructive Islamic ideology, terrorism, and Hamas. Because Palestine and other Arab countries try to constantly f*ck over Israel, it becomes understandable why many Israelis have this hatred. It's a sad situtation, all around, on both sides...

KC_Hokie
Don't forget 25% of Israelis are non-Jewish. They don't favor giving 2.5 Palestinians citizenship either.

...they polled Israeli Jews
#50 Posted by GazaAli (23030 posts) -

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]No one thus far has claimed that Palestinians are better than the Israelis on this issue. We are only saying that this poll is showing the hypocrisy of the claim that Israelis promote/want a democratic state for everyone. kingkong0124

One poll is enough to show hypocrisy of a country w/ 6 million?..1 poll is 1 poll, several hundred polls indicate a trend. I see no trend, I see one outlier.

And there are posts in this thread that imply Palestinians are better than Israelis, I'm not a fool.

Are you familiar with statistics and how it actually works? Ever heard of random sampling?