Israel launches ground invasion of Gaza...again

I know it doesn't. You need to re-read what I said.

All Jewish people who think they have the right to self-determination. So yes airshocker is correct on this one. There is really no other reasonable rationale for it.

Yes because they are really attacking the actual enemies. More civilians have died than the "terrorists" so obviously there are other ways to do it than just bombing. Israel has one of the most advanced armies in the world and their solution is to bomb the livng shit out of gaza? hmmm...

You are aware that Israel dropped pamphlets into the city warning the citizens they might attack days prior, and telling the ones in areas near where they will target that they should leave. Further more, the IDF said they will not and do not target civillians, and they are specifically targeting underground tunnels that Hamas has made to try and attack Israel.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm NOT saying civillian casualties are acceptable, I'm simply saying they're not targeting them, and Israel is a hell of a lot more protective of civillians in Gaza than Hamas, which uses civillian structures to launch rockets from.

Using the word 'murica, in any way, doesn't make you seem like a rational person. Makes you appear like a raving lunatic who's too stupid and/or lazy to be respectful and spell my country correctly.

If you want human rights you actually have to start acting like humans, first.

Barbarity gets you no where but a quick trip to a long dirt nap.

None of this is really the point, though. The point is that a nation is allowed to defend itself. If you want Israel to stop attacking, STOP LAUNCHING ROCKETS AT IT.

And made phone calls and dropped warning flares. In addition if they see civilians near the target they abort.

They are. It sucks that civilians are in the way but that is the nature of urban warfare.

The US has the most advanced army in the world and bombs make up a very large part of it. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

There's a lot to discuss here. Israel has a lot more money, international help and infraestructure for an army than Plaestine. Israel has a lot more resources and means to attack than Palestine. Palestine has to attack with very poor infraestructure and resources. If both sides had the same military capability then yes the comparison you're making could indeed apply but the fact that one highly overpowers the other makes the fight unequal and the conditions unequal. Still the fact is that with all the military power and increased capability of Israel they have killed more than 200 people where the vast majority is civilians while Palestine has killed one israeli. Besides, the historical circumstances of the conflict makes Israel's case hard to defend for me.

They didn't seem to abort anything when they killed those kids on the beach the other day and I don't think Hamas fighters were hiding on the sand there.

What I am trying to say is with the technology there is today there has to be some other ways to kill the main targets without affecting civilians. Right now it just looks like they are targeting all the children. And I dont know how bombing buildings will fix anything. If anything infiltrate it because there are probably civilians in there planning on living a life.

Doesn't matter if it's hard for you to defend. A nation has a right to defend itself. That is accepted throughout the world.

Also, military action isn't meant to be equal. In fact, we strive to stack the odds in our favor all of the time.

Like this one you say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg8W9r0mm_4

Of course one should not interpret that all the attacks happen this same way.

Of course it looks that way to you: You're biased. I'm not since I have no stake in this fight.

I've experienced urban warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan and it's not easy to mitigate civilian casualties when you have objectives that must be completed.

I would also posit that if you're in Gaza trying to live a life, you're living in the wrong place.

oh boy.

I doubt you have any idea about the circumstances surrounding it. Or anything else when it comes to this issue. However I am definitely not denying that there are reckless soldiers or even cruel ones. But the general policy definitely seems to be to warn and then abort if there are civilians clearly present.

Well no one can be unbiased, but I am just looking at all that's happening and my human instincts are telling me that something is not right. I am neither a palestinian or am i an israeli, so i guess you could say im "unbiased" as well.

Yes exactly. One minute is not alot of time though.

No probably not.

You don't have to like what's going on, I personally don't like war, but you have to respect the fact that Israel has a right to conduct military operations against Hamas.

Keep it civil, folks.

It's like two toddlers fighting over a toy.

Just instead of whining and chubby fists, it's whining and bombs.

Israel has done more than any army in history to limit non-military causalities. They drop pamphlets, ring phones, and even drop dummy bombs before attacking an area to give non-military personnel time to escape. It is not Israel's fault that Gaza has placed rockets in schools and near hospitals and forced their citizens to return to areas being bombed. The outrage should be over the fact that Gaza is using human shields, not over the fact that Israel is launching carefully planned strikes into Gaza. The ground war is the safest course of action. Israel using the ground war is meant to limit non-military casualties. When destroying rocket launchers means either capturing them or destroying the school they are located at, capturing them on the ground is a far better course of action.

I love the jackasses here who are so enrage at the civilian deaths an yet completely ignore that you have one side actively putting civilians in harms way...

Also, I am just so sick of this bullshit in the Middle East. I have no fucking idea what is wrong with people over there. The amount of war and fighting over there is absolutely ridiculous. I hope to God the US doesn't get involved in this conflict. Sick of our people dying because of the jackasses over there.

If they stopped harboring terrorists and sending bottle rockets to their neighbors, maybe they wouldn't get bulldozed

It was not long ago that Europeans massacred each other for lesser things. People constantly fail to realize that there is no such a thing as "The Middle East effect".

And please by all means, keep the U.S out of our fucking business, although its too late to say that anyway seeing how the U.S has been making everything that happens in the region its business for the past few decades. If you don't want your people dying "because of jackasses over there" simply don't send them there. It will have the added benefit of not killing thousands of those jackasses for no apparent reason, and it will certainly avoid them much destruction along the way.

I'm not sure if Americans who iterate their dissatisfaction with their soldiers getting blown up in a region that is continents away from American soil fail to realize the irony of it or choose to ignore it altogether. Personally it amazes me how it may really escape some people.

ROFL

Who are "they"?

Amen to that. I think they're just stuck in a different time period.

I don't care. HAMAS operates there. Period. HAMAS is the problem by the way.

You act as if we the people are the ones who vote to send troops to fight. It has been decades since the US was involved in a war that was actually popular with the people. Of course it's not like we had much choice with Afghanistan. Kind of needed to get Osama considering he slaughtered thousands of our people on our own soil. Don't understand what about that is so complicated for people to understand.

I should also mention this seems to be the lovely thing about these terrorist groups that some people here seem to have a hard on for: They can go on about whatever goal they have, but then their way of trying to prove their point is to go and slaughter innocent people. I am not even talking like accidentally killing civilians, the cowardly pieces of shit actively TARGET civilians and then use civilians to shield themselves from the just retribution they bring down upon themselves.

This whole idea of blaming the US for their problems is so ridiculous as well. Shit has been crazy over there well before the US ever got involved. People need to grow the **** up and take responsibility for their own problems. I really do not know any group of people so utterly incapable of acting like sane, responsible human beings. It seems that even the ones who aren't involved in the fighting are still too childish to recognize how they are at fault for the problems over there. I am so sick of people acting like it was sunshine and unicorn farts in the Middle East until the big bad US of A came over an just fucked everything up permanently.

All these people who are supposedly against the fighting need to be speaking out and taking control of their countries. People in the Middle East seem to be incapable of this though. Even when a controlling dictator is forcibly removed from power, the peoples response is to start fighting amongst each other rather than going about proper elections.

It is also important to remember that these terrorist groups aren't getting powerful for no reason. They get SUPPORT from people in the Middle East, and more and more people join such groups every day. If people would start going about disagreements with rational debate instead of resorting to option 1 of "blow up the fuckers who disagree" then maybe the Middle East wouldn't be the asshole of the world like it is currently. Of course when religion is the most dominant force in your country that mean rationality takes a back seat...

gaza

At this point it is not possible to feel sympathetic for the Palestinians.

@LostProphetFLCL: You can't say shit like that. It's ALWAYS America's fault.

The word "Palestinians" never even existed, the mid 20th century

"Palestine" is the name the Romans used to call the Jewish state of Israel.

At the time they named it "Palestine", there were Jews living there - there were no MusIims back then.

The so called "Palestinians", are mostly people from other MusIim countries who chose to follow an Egyptian named Arafat, and his goal of murdering Jews - now their own countries won't let them back in.

They don't deserve their own state.

The media covers up for the palestinians and don't report the horrors they commit

On March 12, 2011 = Palestinian muslims slit the throat of a 3 month old Jewish baby,murdered the rest of the family - - and then celebrated by passing out candy.

CNN TV didn't even report it,

so far over 1000 people injured and hundreds dead. What the **** is Israel doing? Obama should stop the foreign aid

They're defending themselves, as every nation on this planet has a right to do.

Nope, they're invading... Read the topic title... Invading isn't defending...

Yes, it is. Listen, I know you're an idiot so let me make this exceedingly simple for you: Just because you have to invade a country doesn't mean you aren't defending yourself, especially If your attacker(s) reside there. Using offensive power as a defensive measure is sometimes tactically sound.

I guess you've never been in the army, have you?

No, I was never in the Army. I was in the USAF where I received years of experience as an MP doing both police work, security, and yes, even infantry operations.

Even without this experience I would say the same thing. So what's your point, kid?

@airshocker: Because you know if a so called state had an army it would be a threat. They have nothing to resist with. If they had trained you in urban warfare like i have been trained in, it would be possible to do it without invading.

First off, just because they could do it differently doesn't mean anything to the point you're trying to prove. They are still defending themselves from attackers. Attackers, I might add, that are using the civilian population of Gaza to hide in. Like I already said, just because they are conducting an offensive doesn't mean they aren't, in the process, trying to defend themselves.

Secondly, there's no such thing as "urban warfare" training, not unless you're special forces. The closest thing normal service members get is MOUT. So don't pretend with me like you're some hot shit.

Just because they don't do it where in the states, doesn't mean they don't do it here wise boy... When i had the NATO exercise the so called hot shit aka marines/SEALS lasted 2 days with us... So yeah. Don't insult me, because i haven't insulted you...

There are also rules of war and the geneva convention that states you can't bomb civilians as an entity or a group. They are killing people, civilians by the hundreds. You should know this.

LOOL

The Palestinians are no saints, Hamas isn't helping the matter. But you don't bomb the living shit out of an area filled with innocent people

I can't believe you are even bothering with responding.

@AmazonTreeBoa: Is that aimed towards me and my point or him?

First off, you've insulted me almost every time you've responded to my posts. If you want respect you should try giving some.

Marines and SEALs aren't the same things. Fix your grammar because you're damn near unintelligible.

And the Geneva Convention allows for collateral damage so long as civilians aren't the main target. I suggest you actually read them. The IDF isn't targeting civilians.

@airshocker: LOL, you call that insults? Alrighty... I've called you ignorant, not stupid or anything else. Are you always this sensitive?

I am not from the states, and it was marines and the Seals btw. So insulting me because of my grammar shows your ignorance.

Why are they bombing the shit out of highly populated civilian area then? They are shooting flies with an M72 and don't look at where it also might hit other than the flies.

both sides are shit. Gaza harbors terrorist organizations, and those people hide in public places and wear civilian clothing because it makes them easier to hide....plus gives them 'PR ammo' to use when civs get caught in the bombing. Which leads to the other side who has been counter attacking for so long they gave up caring about anyone else and just essentially nuke the place without checking their targets.

Over 300 peeps dead already :(