Israel admits Ethiopian women were coerced into birth control shots

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#51 Posted by Capitan_Kid (6527 posts) -
[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"]This is fvcking sick. The whole Isreali goverment needs to be put behind bars.themajormayor
What about the Swedisj government?

What Sweden do?
#52 Posted by Rockman999 (7232 posts) -

LOL

Jews trying to supress the population of another ethnic group?

OH THE IRONY!

#53 Posted by themajormayor (25698 posts) -
[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"]This is fvcking sick. The whole Isreali goverment needs to be put behind bars.Capitan_Kid
What about the Swedisj government?

What Sweden do?

Force Sterilize Roma people. Lots of countries have done. Even pretty recently
#54 Posted by Yusuke420 (2793 posts) -

LOL

Jews trying to supress the population of another ethnic group?

OH THE IRONY!

Rockman999

#55 Posted by themajormayor (25698 posts) -

LOL

Jews trying to supress the population of another ethnic group?

OH THE IRONY!

Rockman999
It's not another ethnic group. It is Jews from Ethiopia.
#56 Posted by BossPerson (9433 posts) -
[QUOTE="Rockman999"]

LOL

Jews trying to supress the population of another ethnic group?

OH THE IRONY!

themajormayor
It's not another ethnic group. It is Jews from Ethiopia.

they are totally another ethnic group
#57 Posted by Capitan_Kid (6527 posts) -
[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] What about the Swedisj government?

What Sweden do?

Force Sterilize Roma people. Lots of countries have done. Even pretty recently

Fvck em all. They need to pay for their crimes. How recent was that?
#58 Posted by themajormayor (25698 posts) -
[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Rockman999"]

LOL

Jews trying to supress the population of another ethnic group?

OH THE IRONY!

BossPerson
It's not another ethnic group. It is Jews from Ethiopia.

they are totally another ethnic group

No. And even if the were technically it is not relevant since by Israeli law they are Jews
#59 Posted by themajormayor (25698 posts) -
[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"][QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"] What Sweden do?

Force Sterilize Roma people. Lots of countries have done. Even pretty recently

Fvck em all. They need to pay for their crimes. How recent was that?

Sweden was in the 70s but states like Russia and czheck republic was barely a decade ago
#60 Posted by kriggy (845 posts) -

[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] What about the Swedisj government? themajormayor
What Sweden do?

Force Sterilize Roma people. Lots of countries have done. Even pretty recently

Lol, before assuming something like that you should research over how they lived in comparison to the rest of the population. And it wasn't pretty, they moved from town to town with thier caravans, setting up camp in the outskirts where nothing was really close to them. They were never interested in adapting to the swedish society and were very poor, they just wanted to live by thier own culture, a culture that died a little every year that passed because nobody wants to live like that when you can easily get a nice house and a decent job instead. They have blended in to the society now, and that's why they have almost vanished.

#61 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
Horrible. While it wasn't permanent this sort of action is completely unacceptable and those involved should be jailed. If it's found it was a government order the US should pull support.

Also LJS stifling discussion while ranting about how OT is dying. lol.
#62 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150269 posts) -
Horrible. While it wasn't permanent this sort of action is completely unacceptable and those involved should be jailed. If it's found it was a government order the US should pull support.

Also LJS stifling discussion while ranting about how OT is dying. lol.Ace6301
Aw....you missed me.:oops:
#63 Posted by themajormayor (25698 posts) -

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"] What Sweden do?kriggy

Force Sterilize Roma people. Lots of countries have done. Even pretty recently

Lol, before assuming something like that you should research over how they lived in comparison to the rest of the population. And it wasn't pretty, they moved from town to town with thier caravans, setting up camp in the outskirts where nothing was really close to them. They were never interested in adapting to the swedish society and were very poor, they just wanted to live by thier own culture, a culture that died a little every year that passed because nobody wants to live like that when you can easily get a nice house and a decent job instead. They have blended in to the society now, and that's why they have almost vanished.

I know how they lived. I don't think any of that justifies forced sterilization though.
#64 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

Ive personally never heard about it, frankly anything that is reported by Haaretz is suspect

#65 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -
[QUOTE="Ace6301"]Horrible. While it wasn't permanent this sort of action is completely unacceptable and those involved should be jailed. If it's found it was a government order the US should pull support.

Also LJS stifling discussion while ranting about how OT is dying. lol.LJS9502_basic
Aw....you missed me.:oops:

Just pointing out how wishy washy you are. Also why don't you respond to the thread?
#66 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

I don't see the problem. They are not God's chosen people. Nothing to see here. Carry on with your gentile lives.

coolbeans90
not even sure what you mean by that. they are Jews, by the halacha.
#67 Posted by ZombieKiller7 (6248 posts) -

Gotta keep those minorities down or the "Jewish State" concept doesn't work.

#68 Posted by themajormayor (25698 posts) -

Gotta keep those minorities down or the "Jewish State" concept doesn't work.

ZombieKiller7
They are Jews though. Probably an Arab plot to decrease the proportion of Jews in the state.
#69 Posted by ROFLCOPTER603 (2140 posts) -

Israel doesn't get it. They wonder why their country is hated by pretty much everyone, and then they do this. Plus, they give normal Jews who aren't crazy racists a bad name. I wonder how surprised Hitler would be to know that the people he tried to exterminate are in turn trying to eliminate other races. He might even be proud.

#70 Posted by themajormayor (25698 posts) -

Israel doesn't get it. They wonder why their country is hated by pretty much everyone, and then they do this. Plus, they give normal Jews who aren't crazy racists a bad name. I wonder how surprised Hitler would be to know that the people he tried to exterminate are in turn trying to eliminate other races. He might even be proud.

ROFLCOPTER603
They don't need to wonder. It is hated because it is the only Jewish state. What race are the Jewish people trying to eliminate exactly?
#71 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"]

Gotta keep those minorities down or the "Jewish State" concept doesn't work.

themajormayor

They are Jews though. Probably an Arab plot to decrease the proportion of Jews in the state.

from what Ive been reading, it was based on a socio-economic thing.not a racism issue as such, they are quite capable of having children

now. its really quite hilarious, people accusing us of racism , because you know, going through the trouble of bringing tens of thousands of people (many of whom are poor/uneducated) , giving them a citizenship and the whole benefit package they give to new immigrants.....all this must show how racist we are.

there is racism on the individual level , thats obviously true, but on a state level? nah.

#72 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -
[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

Israel doesn't get it. They wonder why their country is hated by pretty much everyone, and then they do this. Plus, they give normal Jews who aren't crazy racists a bad name. I wonder how surprised Hitler would be to know that the people he tried to exterminate are in turn trying to eliminate other races. He might even be proud.

themajormayor
They don't need to wonder. It is hated because it is the only Jewish state. What race are the Jewish people trying to eliminate exactly?

the aliens from the planet Krypton , I mean seriously, we did such a through job that there are almost none left now. some people sadly need their fix of "lets blame the Jews for something silly today"
#73 Posted by themajormayor (25698 posts) -

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"]

Gotta keep those minorities down or the "Jewish State" concept doesn't work.

Darkman2007

They are Jews though. Probably an Arab plot to decrease the proportion of Jews in the state.

from what Ive been reading, it was based on a socio-economic thing.not a racism issue as such, they are quite capable of having children

now. its really quite hilarious, people accusing us of racism , because you know, going through the trouble of bringing tens of thousands of people (many of whom are poor/uneducated) , giving them a citizenship and the whole benefit package they give to new immigrants.....all this must show how racist we are.

there is racism on the individual level , thats obviously true, but on a state level? nah.

Yes it makes sense now. Let's put huge amount of time, money and effort into bring a select number of Ethiopians just to make sure they get no babies :roll: I'm not saying it is right. In fact it's pretty despicable in principle. But people crying racism and genocide is just ridiculous.
#74 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] They are Jews though. Probably an Arab plot to decrease the proportion of Jews in the state. themajormayor

from what Ive been reading, it was based on a socio-economic thing.not a racism issue as such, they are quite capable of having children

now. its really quite hilarious, people accusing us of racism , because you know, going through the trouble of bringing tens of thousands of people (many of whom are poor/uneducated) , giving them a citizenship and the whole benefit package they give to new immigrants.....all this must show how racist we are.

there is racism on the individual level , thats obviously true, but on a state level? nah.

Yes it makes sense now. Let's put huge amount of time, money and effort into bring a select number of Ethiopians just to make sure they get no babies :roll: I'm not saying it is right. In fact it's pretty despicable in principle. But people crying racism and genocide is just ridiculous.

fact is, it seems to have a temporary thing , mostly when they were in Ethiopia. heck judging by numbers their population has risen quite a bit (around 70,000 arrived in Israel , and there are 120 thousand today, so if this is ethnic cleansing, its not a very successful one) but hey some people get a kick from thinking the Jews are genocidal , so I suppose we can let them have their fun to an extent.
#75 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150269 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Ace6301"]Horrible. While it wasn't permanent this sort of action is completely unacceptable and those involved should be jailed. If it's found it was a government order the US should pull support.

Also LJS stifling discussion while ranting about how OT is dying. lol.Ace6301

Aw....you missed me.:oops:

Just pointing out how wishy washy you are. Also why don't you respond to the thread?

Because I responded to the topic in the first thread about this. The link didn't say much of substance. You misused wishy washy there champ. And for a short time the only conversation to be had was between me and aljosa...so you were wrong again.:)

#76 Posted by ROFLCOPTER603 (2140 posts) -

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

Israel doesn't get it. They wonder why their country is hated by pretty much everyone, and then they do this. Plus, they give normal Jews who aren't crazy racists a bad name. I wonder how surprised Hitler would be to know that the people he tried to exterminate are in turn trying to eliminate other races. He might even be proud.

Darkman2007

They don't need to wonder. It is hated because it is the only Jewish state. What race are the Jewish people trying to eliminate exactly?

the aliens from the planet Krypton , I mean seriously, we did such a through job that there are almost none left now. some people sadly need their fix of "lets blame the Jews for something silly today"

Wait, didn't I specifically say that Israelis give Jews a bad name? I have nothing against Jews- they've been discriminated against since the beginning. And they're (the Israelis, not Jews) sterilizing Ethiopians- which is a specific nationality, and maybe even "race". The Israeli government perverts Judaism, much like their enemies pervert Islam.

It wasn't you that said it, but being the only Jewish state does not give them a blank check to do whatever they want. Any state based on a singular religion, be it Islam, Christianity, or Judaism is a poor idea. Naturally it's going to breed racism and prejudice. Their flag is the star of david, for Yahweh's sake. Their foreign policy and entire country is based entirely on one religion. Any minorites are automatically alienated. In this case, they're even sterlized.

#77 Posted by osirisx3 (1756 posts) -

No surprises here folks imperialists will do anything to hold on to power.

#78 Posted by Allthishate (1875 posts) -
Ahh Darkemen playing the persecution card again. give this another 2 pages and the Holocaust will be brought up somewhere. And the Irony of Israel is beyond pathetic.
#79 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

Israel doesn't get it. They wonder why their country is hated by pretty much everyone, and then they do this. Plus, they give normal Jews who aren't crazy racists a bad name. I wonder how surprised Hitler would be to know that the people he tried to exterminate are in turn trying to eliminate other races. He might even be proud.

ROFLCOPTER603

Oh great it's another one of you guys......

#80 Posted by GrayF0X786 (3849 posts) -

lol, not even suprised.

#81 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] They don't need to wonder. It is hated because it is the only Jewish state. What race are the Jewish people trying to eliminate exactly?ROFLCOPTER603

the aliens from the planet Krypton , I mean seriously, we did such a through job that there are almost none left now. some people sadly need their fix of "lets blame the Jews for something silly today"

Wait, didn't I specifically say that Israelis give Jews a bad name? I have nothing against Jews- they've been discriminated against since the beginning. And they're (the Israelis, not Jews) sterilizing Ethiopians- which is a specific nationality, and maybe even "race". The Israeli government perverts Judaism, much like their enemies pervert Islam.

It wasn't you that said it, but being the only Jewish state does not give them a blank check to do whatever they want. Any state based on a singular religion, be it Islam, Christianity, or Judaism is a poor idea. Naturally it's going to breed racism and prejudice. Their flag is the star of david, for Yahweh's sake. Their foreign policy and entire country is based entirely on one religion. Any minorites are automatically alienated. In this case, they're even sterlized.

lol, please cut the crap , when you say Israel , you mean Jews, its a Jewish state, the majority of its people are Jews, its the Jews, end of story, funny how some people will try to hide their feelings like that, simply because they are not politically correct, it would be like saying "I have no problems with Arabs, but damn I hate those Iraqis" , its about as stupid as it gets, if youre going to hate, at least be honest about it. and no , you don't have the right to tell me or any other Jew who perverts Judaism or who is a Jew, youre not Jewish , have little knowledge of it , so really your opinion on this is worthless , but lets take those 2 main arguments of yours and break them down. 1) nobody was sterilzed , perhaps if you actually bothered reading, you would find out nobody was sterilized, some women were given temporary birth control , mainly while they were in Ethiopia , albeit they were coerced to some extent (and if one wants to point something unjust , that would be it) , but nobody was sterilized, they are quite capalbe of having chidlren , as numbers show. 2nd , they are not a minority, they are halackhically speaking, Jews (genetics and ethnicity aside) . and if there is so much racism , why the heck would the government go to great lengths and spend alot of money to bring all of them from Ethiopia ( a total of over 70 thousand people, not an easy task for a relatively small country) give them an automatic citizenship , and provide them with all the benefits new immigrants gets (in fact I remember back in the early 90s when a family of Ethiopian Jews moved next to us, I believe the hosue they got was free from the government) , again , use your head. 2) did I ever say that? no I did not, Im saying people should look at the information before they scream racism and ethnic cleansing, instead people are not doing that, and instead go by the info the TC gives them (and he himself isn't very smart ) and no , Israel not a religious state , its a state for the Jews, most of its people are Jews, so yeah , guess what, its going to have a Jewish character , but no , it is not a religious state , nor does it base its foreign policy (or even internal policy to a large extent) on Judaism , by Jewish state, one means the people , or nation , the religion. I would suggest that next time you bother looking at the info and the place the topic is about before yapping on about something you know nothing about @Allthishate thats funny, you just mentioned the Holocaust just now, I didn't, all Im, saying is something very simple, people are not reading the information , or looking into the topic before making some dumb comment (and there are a bunch of them already), comments which in some cases are pretty damn insulting. now they are doing it either because they are too lazy or not very smart , or because they have prejudice against Jews ,even if in their head they replace Jews with Israel (because they have been told racism is wrong), thats up to them to decide. but since you mention the Holocaust, perhaps youre inspired by it?
#82 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

lol, not even suprised.

GrayF0X786
Im surprised you care, what you would do is far worse than just giving them temporary birth control.
#83 Posted by Aero5555 (1315 posts) -

lol, please cut the crap , when you say Israel , you mean Jews, its a Jewish state, the majority of its people are Jews, its the Jews, end of story, funny how some people will try to hide their feelings like that, simply because they are not politically correct, it would be like saying "I have no problems with Arabs, but damn I hate those Iraqis" , its about as stupid as it gets, if youre going to hate, at least be honest about it.Darkman2007

Um, I can confirm that it's perfectly a normal occurence for that to happen. I lived through the Gulf War sirens and alot of Arabs and expats living in the Gulf felt that way at the time. Some hate Saddam, others praise him. Some Iraqis hate Kuwait... etc. Just because some dislike people from a certain nationality doesn't mean the entire race is disliked. You sound pretty dumb here.

I dunno if it's your insistance in making Israel look like they do no wrong, but just because Israel gets criticized and hated doesn't mean all the Jews are bad. And that's what I was telling you in the past. I know you get what I'm saying. But you simply want Israel to represent every single Jewish community's ideals.

Atleast Shadowmoses admits they're in the wrong.

#84 Posted by pie-junior (2821 posts) -
darkman, why are you defending this? Ethiopian jews are (obviously) a minority and are subjected to substantial portions of racism social stratification in the Israeli society. This story makes clear something that's apparent even regardless: that the administrative authorities in Israel are not interested in taking in african jews (despite the legislative constructs that force them)- firstly, as an obvious result of the social-economic state of these immigrants that puts a considerable strain on the welfare programs of the state while offering no new entry of posession and professional knowledge to the economy ; and secondly, as a clear result of racial undertones that exist in the Israeli public.
#85 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] lol, please cut the crap , when you say Israel , you mean Jews, its a Jewish state, the majority of its people are Jews, its the Jews, end of story, funny how some people will try to hide their feelings like that, simply because they are not politically correct, it would be like saying "I have no problems with Arabs, but damn I hate those Iraqis" , its about as stupid as it gets, if youre going to hate, at least be honest about it.Aero5555

Um, I can confirm that it's perfectly a normal occurence for that to happen. I lived through the Gulf War sirens and alot of Arabs and expats living in the Gulf felt that way at the time. Some hate Saddam, others praise him. Some Iraqis hate Kuwait... etc. Just because some dislike people from a certain nationality doesn't mean the entire race is disliked. You sound pretty dumb here.

I dunno if it's your insistance in making Israel look like they do no wrong, but just because Israel gets criticized and hated doesn't mean all the Jews are bad. And that's what I was telling you in the past. I know you get what I'm saying. But you simply want Israel to represent every single Jewish community's ideals.

Atleast Shadowmoses admits they're in the wrong.

thats hatred between Arabs, Im talking about hate from the outside, to me its utterly silly that someone would try and somehow seperate Israel and the Jews, guess what, some 45% of Jews live in Israel , so yeah , if one spouts hatred or incorrect libels against it, its against the Jews , plain and simple. heck , judging by birth rates (high in Israel , low in the diaspora) , Jews in Israel are going to be the majority pretty soon anyways and when did I ever say Israel can or cannot do any wrong? (sounds like again , youre making things up), in fact if you bothered to read the rest of that comment ,you would see that I wrote the coercion part is wrong and unjust , Im not saying Israel or the Jews are some angels, trust me I have my complaints. what I don't like is when people lie , distort and insult, just like they are in this thread, they want to talk about true facts, fine, but not when I see lies and false accusations thrown around (heck , just on this page I had to refute 2 nonsense claims) wnat a similar example? Imagine if I told you I think its wrong that Saudi Arabia is not a democracy , you might disagree, but you can debate me, on the other hand , if I accused Saudi Arabia and the people who live their for eating children for breakfast and drinking their blood, the average person from Saudia wouldn't be too pleased with the smearing his reputation and that of his country (even if he does not necessarily like every policy his government has)
#86 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -
[QUOTE="pie-junior"]darkman, why are you defending this? Ethiopian jews are (obviously) a minority and are subjected to substantial portions of racism social stratification in the Israeli society. This story makes clear something that's apparent even regardless: that the administrative authorities in Israel are not interested in taking in african jews (despite the legislative constructs that force them)- firstly, as an obvious result of the social-economic state of these immigrants that puts a considerable strain on the welfare programs of the state while offering no new entry of posession and professional knowledge to the economy ; and secondly, as a clear result of racial undertones that exist in the Israeli public.

when did I defend it? I did say that the coercion to take birth control is wrong (I think this is probably the 3rd time Ive said it) . at the same time, Im not willing to accept the various lies and accusations, between the comparisons ot the Nazis, the accusation of racism and eugenics, or the talk of sterilization. and yeah , they put a strain on the system more so than some other groups (although its not huge since at the end of the day, they are only around 1.5% of the population , and the poverty is more apparent in the older generations , at least from my perceptions) but with that, they were still brought over, . and again , I did say there is racism on the individual levels , obviously it exists, but to go from that to Nazi compaisons or talk of eugenics is insane
#87 Posted by thebest31406 (3323 posts) -
That's reprehensible and unfortunately, it goes on in a lot of places, especially the US. North Carolina is a prime example.
#88 Posted by Aero5555 (1315 posts) -

thats hatred between Arabs...... If I accused Saudi Arabia and the people who live their for eating children for breakfast and drinking their blood, the average person from Saudia wouldn't be too pleased with the smearing his reputation and that of his country (even if he does not necessarily like every policy his government has)Darkman2007

First of all, kindly don't twist my words. I mentioned expats in my previous post. As in Western expats. I know people who hate my country, myself, but love Arabs.

Secondly, corruption in the Kingdom is not exactly a fairytale. Look at the Saudis posting on Twitter. They eat, drink and sleep on decimating that info day in and day out. It's obvious when someone smears factually and when one does it simply for the sake of bias prejudice. We get more flack than you guys do. So please, don't go there.

And hey, even Pie isn't backing the government on this act and questions your defence of it. I mean, c'mon now.

#89 Posted by Lonelynight (30039 posts) -
they should do this to the arabs in Israel too.
#90 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]thats hatred between Arabs...... If I accused Saudi Arabia and the people who live their for eating children for breakfast and drinking their blood, the average person from Saudia wouldn't be too pleased with the smearing his reputation and that of his country (even if he does not necessarily like every policy his government has)Aero5555

First of all, kindly don't twist my words. I mentioned expats in my previous post. As in Western expats. I know people who hate my country, myself, but love Arabs.

Secondly, corruption in the Kingdom is not exactly a fairytale. Look at the Saudis posting on Twitter. They eat, drink and sleep on decimating that info day in and day out. It's obvious when someone smears factually and when one does it simply for the sake of bias prejudice. We get more flack than you guys do. So please, don't go there.

And hey, even Pie isn't backing the government on this act and questions your defence of it. I mean, c'mon now.

thats the thing, I personally would not smear the reputation of people in Saudia, mainly because i know relatively little about the country, if I get something wrong , somebody from there can correct me, just because you get that treatment doesn't make similar treatment towards us ok or normal. and where did I say I defended anybody? again , youre not reading the info , or ignoring, what I don't like are the lies and accusations people are developing from this, its gone from women getting temprary birth control (nevermind this is over it seems, judging by numbers) , to comparisons with Nazi Germany, and talk of sterilization , heck , some people seem to think those people are not Jews (which shows how little they know of the dynamics and history of the Jewish world). and yeah , we take comparisons with the people who killed 1/3 of us very seriously, especially when they are false (at which point it becomes an insult and a cheap way to bash the Jews)
#91 Posted by pie-junior (2821 posts) -

when did I defend it? I did say that the coercion to take birth control is wrong (I think this is probably the 3rd time Ive said it) . at the same time, Im not willing to accept the various lies and accusations, between the comparisons ot the Nazis, the accusation of racism and eugenics, or the talk of sterilization. and yeah , they put a strain on the system more so than some other groups (although its not huge since at the end of the day, they are only around 1.5% of the population , and the poverty is more apparent in the older generations , at least from my perceptions) but with that, they were still brought over, . and again , I did say there is racism on the individual levels , obviously it exists, but to go from that to Nazi compaisons or talk of eugenics is insaneDarkman2007

The eugenics talk is absolutely appropriate and reflects well the severity of these acts. It's you who entered into this automated defensive spin that's detached from reality.

This long-lasting, systematic policy of all the HMOs in the country, under the guidance of the health ministry, strongly reflect institutional racism- and not just individual racism. If you feel a strong need to defend Israel- you might want to start with conspiratorial nature of these policies that were aborted with the onset of public exposure and scrutiny, and might lead to criminal proceedings. Thats the saving grace of Israel in regards to the darker subjects of comparison, and not the nature of the acts- which can fit in nicely with the worst of the eugenics-inspired policies in history.

addendum- darkman, do you remember the missing Yemenite children issue in the 50's and the 60's? This looks worse.

#92 Posted by pie-junior (2821 posts) -

And hey, even Pie isn't backing the government on this act and questions your defence of it. I mean, c'mon now.

Aero5555

because i'm supposed to be a spokesperson for the Israeli government?

I don't do hasbara

#93 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

when did I defend it? I did say that the coercion to take birth control is wrong (I think this is probably the 3rd time Ive said it) . at the same time, Im not willing to accept the various lies and accusations, between the comparisons ot the Nazis, the accusation of racism and eugenics, or the talk of sterilization. and yeah , they put a strain on the system more so than some other groups (although its not huge since at the end of the day, they are only around 1.5% of the population , and the poverty is more apparent in the older generations , at least from my perceptions) but with that, they were still brought over, . and again , I did say there is racism on the individual levels , obviously it exists, but to go from that to Nazi compaisons or talk of eugenics is insanepie-junior

The eugenics talk is absolutely appropriate and reflects well the severity of these acts. It's you who entered into this automated defensive spin that's detached from reality.

This long-lasting, systematic policy of all the HMOs in the country, under the guidance of the health ministry, strongly reflect institutional racism- and not just individual racism. If you feel a strong need to defend Israel- you might want to start with conspiratorial nature of these policies that were aborted with the onset of public exposure and scrutiny, and might lead to criminal proceedings. Thats the saving grace of Israel in regards to the darker subjects of comparison, and not the nature of the acts- which can fit in nicely with the worst of the eugenics-inspired policies in history.

addendum- darkman, do you remember the missing Yemenite children issue in the 50's and the 60's? This looks worse.

I don't see the talk about eugenics being the same, Im sorry, but I simply can't accept that one, and especially not the Nazi comparisons, again , nobody brings in tens of thousands of people just to prevent them from having children, it makes very little sense , at least to my mind and define institutional racism , if youre talking about laws, thats different from the guy filling in the forms at the health ministry. as for the children thing, yeah Ive heard of it, between the accusations and the offiicial inquiries, the truth is probably somewhere there.
#94 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Aero5555"]

And hey, even Pie isn't backing the government on this act and questions your defence of it. I mean, c'mon now.

pie-junior

because i'm supposed to be a spokesperson for the Israeli government?

I don't do hasbara

hasbara is such a .....cliche term , sometimes I feel it should be changed to hashtaka or tkifa.
#95 Posted by pie-junior (2821 posts) -

I don't see the talk about eugenics being the same, Im sorry, but I simply can't accept that one, and especially not the Nazi comparisons, again , nobody brings in tens of thousands of people just to prevent them from having children, it makes very little sense , at least to my mind and define institutional racism , if youre talking about laws, thats different from the guy filling in the forms at the health ministry as for the children thing, yeah Ive heard of it, between the accusations and the offiicial inquiries, the truth is probably somewhere there.Darkman2007

*The nazi comparisons are obvious hyperboles, cosndiering the irony involved in the 'jewish' state participating in administrated eugenics.

*They 'brought' them in- because they had to, they coerced contraceptives- because they didnt want to . That was my point. An administrative authority depends on statistical data to measure success- how far we're managed to promote education; how far we've managed to promote emplyment. etc. the clerks and elected officials in the executive branches have no motivation to take in uneducated destitute people into society. They fvck up their statistics- and prevent reelection or job advancement and effort recognition. (unless i'm seriously undervaluing the extents of the racial factors involved)

*The acts are obviously illegal under israeli law. But the policies we're, apparently, part of the 'official' acting of administrative discretion. That is institutional racism- public institutions can still break the law.

*I thought (as an israeli from middle-eastern origins) that you'd recognize the extreme example I gave in the form of the abducted Yemenis- guess not. I don't feel like arguing this point, but I think it's been substantiated enough that the accusations were pretty accurate.

#96 Posted by pie-junior (2821 posts) -
[QUOTE="pie-junior"]

[QUOTE="Aero5555"]

And hey, even Pie isn't backing the government on this act and questions your defence of it. I mean, c'mon now.

Darkman2007

because i'm supposed to be a spokesperson for the Israeli government?

I don't do hasbara

hasbara is such a .....cliche term , sometimes I feel it should be changed to hashtaka or tkifa.

mmm That sounds much much worse
#97 Posted by Darkman2007 (17929 posts) -

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] I don't see the talk about eugenics being the same, Im sorry, but I simply can't accept that one, and especially not the Nazi comparisons, again , nobody brings in tens of thousands of people just to prevent them from having children, it makes very little sense , at least to my mind and define institutional racism , if youre talking about laws, thats different from the guy filling in the forms at the health ministry as for the children thing, yeah Ive heard of it, between the accusations and the offiicial inquiries, the truth is probably somewhere there.pie-junior

*The nazi comparisons are obvious hyperboles, cosndiering the irony involved in the 'jewish' state participating in administrated eugenics.

*They 'brought' them in- because they had to, they coerced contraceptives- because they didnt want to . That was my point. An administrative authority depends on statistical data to measure success- how far we're managed to promote education; how far we've managed to promote emplyment. etc. the clerks and elected officials in the executive branches have no motivation to take in uneducated destitute people into society. They fvck up their statistics- and prevent reelection or job advancement and effort recognition. (unless i'm seriously undervaluing the extents of the racial factors involved)

*The acts are obviously illegal under israeli law. But the policies we're, apparently, part of the 'official' acting of administrative discretion. That is institutional racism- public institutions can still break the law.

*I thought (as an israeli from middle-eastern origins) that you'd recognize the extreme example I gave in the form of the abducted Yemenis- guess not. I don't feel like arguing this point, but I think it's been substantiated enough that the accusations were pretty accurate.

wheter they are hyperboles or not, its pretty damn insulting, as far as I see it , its a cheap insult and you know why. I also find it odd how everyone expects perfection, it sounds like "oh the Jews suffered , so they should be nice to everybody" , as though we have to learn lessons from it. thats what Im getting from it anyways. what you said is obvious , and could indeed account for this (even if people are not looking at it in the context its happening, or the details of it), and Ive said it before, if somebody was coereced into this, yeah , its unjust, and you know what , one could find out who is responsible and hold him accountable, but to go from that to the accusations above , or at least some of them , that I can't accept. and no , youre not undervaluing it too much , in general Id say racism towards blacks is not that different from the racism you get in the US , albeit the good and bad of it are in different places. lastly, if youre talking about family and such , its not my entire family , some were directly from the Middle East (we are talking about the last 100 years of course), or rather North Africa , some were not, though I think that even on that side, my grandfather might have been a descendent of Sfaradim who escaped from Spain. but in relation to that incident, Im not saying its true or not true, Im saying a bunch of activists are saying one thing, the government inquiry into the matter said another, between those 2 the truth is there. btw I do prefer the latter terms, hasbara sounds rather....defensive, almost like you owe somebody something.
#98 Posted by thebest31406 (3323 posts) -
[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="pie-junior"]

I don't see the talk about eugenics being the same, Im sorry, but I simply can't accept that one, and especially not the Nazi comparisons, again , nobody brings in tens of thousands of people just to prevent them from having children, it makes very little sense , at least to my mind and define institutional racism , if youre talking about laws, thats different from the guy filling in the forms at the health ministry as for the children thing, yeah Ive heard of it, between the accusations and the offiicial inquiries, the truth is probably somewhere there.Darkman2007

*The nazi comparisons are obvious hyperboles, cosndiering the irony involved in the 'jewish' state participating in administrated eugenics.

*They 'brought' them in- because they had to, they coerced contraceptives- because they didnt want to . That was my point. An administrative authority depends on statistical data to measure success- how far we're managed to promote education; how far we've managed to promote emplyment. etc. the clerks and elected officials in the executive branches have no motivation to take in uneducated destitute people into society. They fvck up their statistics- and prevent reelection or job advancement and effort recognition. (unless i'm seriously undervaluing the extents of the racial factors involved)

*The acts are obviously illegal under israeli law. But the policies we're, apparently, part of the 'official' acting of administrative discretion. That is institutional racism- public institutions can still break the law.

*I thought (as an israeli from middle-eastern origins) that you'd recognize the extreme example I gave in the form of the abducted Yemenis- guess not. I don't feel like arguing this point, but I think it's been substantiated enough that the accusations were pretty accurate.

wheter they are hyperboles or not, its pretty damn insulting, as far as I see it , its a cheap insult and you know why. I also find it odd how everyone expects perfection, it sounds like "oh the Jews suffered , so they should be nice to everybody" , as though we have to learn lessons from it. thats what Im getting from it anyways. what you said is obvious , and could indeed account for this (even if people are not looking at it in the context its happening, or the details of it), and Ive said it before, if somebody was coereced into this, yeah , its unjust, and you know what , one could find out who is responsible and hold him accountable, but to go from that to the accusations above , or at least some of them , that I can't accept. and no , youre not undervaluing it too much , in general Id say racism towards blacks is not that different from the racism you get in the US , albeit the good and bad of it are in different places. lastly, if youre talking about family and such , its not my entire family , some were directly from the Middle East (we are talking about the last 100 years of course), or rather North Africa , some were not, though I think that even on that side, my grandfather might have been a descendent of Sfaradim who escaped from Spain. but in relation to that incident, Im not saying its true or not true, Im saying a bunch of activists are saying one thing, the government inquiry into the matter said another, between those 2 the truth is there. btw I do prefer the latter terms, hasbara sounds rather....defensive, almost like you owe somebody something.

Asking the state not to perform not to perform birth control on the unwilling is asking for perfection to you?