Is this system we call capitalism really capitalism?

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#1 Posted by Jebus213 (8740 posts) -
I'n a capitalist system, the government is supposed to be small. But today the state is more bloated and more invasive then it's ever been. Individuals and companies are supposed to operate in a free market. Good enterprise is rewarded with profit and flawed enterprise with failure. But during the 2008 banking crisis we saw the western economic system divided in a way people where told could never happen. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor. The banks got in trouble in 2008 and had to be bailed out, that's socialism. But people are arguing against socialism right now but the United States is probably the most socialist country in the world. Is this a proper capitalist system? If rich people make mistakes they don't get punished, but if the poor do they get punished. Even worse the people are forced to pay for the mistakes of the rich. How has our system come to this?
#2 Posted by Fightingfan (38011 posts) -
It's those stupid 47%ers.
#3 Posted by chessmaster1989 (29099 posts) -
It's well known that American's a mixed economy...
#4 Posted by mattbbpl (10570 posts) -
We have a mixed model system like other countries. The system can be (and really should be) continually tweaked in accordance with the times to achieve optimal results, but neither a pure capitalist system nor a pure socialist system is something I would want to be a part of.
#5 Posted by Jebus213 (8740 posts) -
It's well known that American's a mixed economy...chessmaster1989
But it's not working.
#6 Posted by Blue-Sky (10315 posts) -

It's well known that American's a mixed economy...chessmaster1989

Only a minority of Americans actually knows this.

#7 Posted by mattbbpl (10570 posts) -

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]It's well known that American's a mixed economy...Blue-Sky

Only a minority of Americans actually knows this.

Sometimes it seems that way, sadly enough.
#8 Posted by Jebus213 (8740 posts) -
I'm well aware that we have a mixed economy but it isn't working.
#9 Posted by dave123321 (33750 posts) -
I'm well aware that we have a mixed economy but it isn't working.Jebus213
What should we do to fix it?
#10 Posted by mattbbpl (10570 posts) -
I'm well aware that we have a mixed economy but it isn't working.Jebus213
We're open to suggestions :-P
#11 Posted by dave123321 (33750 posts) -
Gold standard? Gold and silver standard?
#12 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

It's a mixed economy. I wouldn't call the US the most socialist country in the world but it delivers a mixed message and people often think our economy is pure capitalism when it's not. There is government interference in forms of social programs, subsidies, and bailouts. In fact, bailouts in the US aren't new, and I do agree that bailouts create a moral hazard as well as that subsidies aren't necessary (great example, the corn industry). As for social programs, I'm beginning to feel mixed about this so I can't say much.

However, the federal government isn't the only one that makes the rules. States and local governments make their own rules and regulations on businesses which pile up and, depending on the amount of regulations, makes it harder for small businesses to form. For example, you need a license given from the state to start a business such as a floral store or even a hairbraiding salon, which is rediculous. There was another case where a lemonade stand was shut down because they didn't have a permit, and this is a true story.

The main problem isn't capitalism or socialism and how they're run. Here's a quote that will make sense: "The more laws, the less justice." ~ Ciciero.

#14 Posted by Jebus213 (8740 posts) -
[QUOTE="Jebus213"]I'm well aware that we have a mixed economy but it isn't working.mattbbpl
We're open to suggestions :-P

A system of reformed capitalism built on independent money. A tax system based on consumption not income and employee owned businesses. This would begin to build an economy that's not dependent on constant growth to service it's dept. .
#15 Posted by GummiRaccoon (13597 posts) -

Economically speaking, econimc systems are on a sliding scale.

On one end of the scale, we have a free market (capitalism) and on the other end of the scale we have a planned economy (communism)

Now, every contry is on this scale from one place to another however, most are towards the center, somewhere between a planned economy and market economy.

These are called mixed economies, and that is what he have, although we are much closer to market economy than china, and china is much closer to a planned economy than we are( but they are mixed to and moving more and more towards market)

#16 Posted by ShadowDeathX (10575 posts) -
Mixed Economy that leans Capitalist but is heavily stirred with crony capitalism.
#17 Posted by Jebus213 (8740 posts) -
A system of reformed capitalism built on independent money. A tax system based on consumption not income and employee owned businesses. This would begin to build an economy that's not dependent on constant growth to service it's dept.
#18 Posted by Jacobistheman (3975 posts) -

Well, for every dollar this country makes, the federal government spends 25 cents. I am not sure how much the state and local governments spend on average, but I can't see how it would be less than 10 cents. That is in no way this country is true capitalism.

#19 Posted by Rapporteur (99 posts) -

I don't see the point in relabelling the USA from a capitalist country. There's no one "proper" capitalism in terms of organization, only in very strict modelling in certain disciplines; it's very possible to have a mixed economy and still be described as capitalist. Social market economies, though they differ from free market economies, do resemble capitalism more than socialism too.

Welfare capitalism also is a viable conception, and by virtue of how many more functions a state has then, the corollary is that they will always be bigger than "classical liberal" capitalist states. There's no clear connexion between state SIZE and capitalism -- it's more what the state decides to do with its administrative apparatus.

In the end, I find this dichotomy is just used by Paulbots and other apologists to deflect from opposing arguments: it's usually used to conflate how free markets are with the whole system -- just focusing on distribution in a capitalist economy (excluding production, consumption habits, extraction of natural resources, legal protection in the process).

why do I always end up arguing about semantics on this forum good god oh man oh god oh man ships sinking and sh!t

#20 Posted by Barbariser (6724 posts) -

A system of reformed capitalism built on independent money. A tax system based on consumption not income and employee owned businesses. This would begin to build an economy that's not dependent on constant growth to service it's dept.Jebus213

What the fvck is "independent money"? Consumption taxes would be either insufficient to fund a government or effectively regressive and devastating to lower-income groups that don't have much wealth and tend to spend rather than save their income. There is nothing wrong with servicing debts using economic growth and inflation.