In God We Trust vs E. Pluribus Unum

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#1 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

I know, I know this is a random topic where we should be talking about chicken sandwiches and evil Muslims, and this question is probably very old and overdone. Or maybe not, I don't know.

Personally, I feel the motto "In God We Trust" doesn't represent our country at all. It is the official motto only because it was done out of fear and to differentiate ourselves from the atheistic Soviet Union. Although "E. Pluribus Unum" was never our official motto but rather our de facto motto, I felt that it best represented our country, from the unity of the thirteen colonies to the melting pot of today.

So OT what's your opinion?

#2 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -
Yea, the "In god we trust" thing should be removed.
#3 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -
Yea, the "In god we trust" thing should be removed. l4dak47
Yeah but you're just an atheist waiting for genocide. I have that on good authority....>__>
#4 Posted by IronBeaver (1986 posts) -

Remind me what the second means? Out of one, many?

#5 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -

Remind me what the second means? Out of one, many?

IronBeaver
Out of many, one. iirc.
#6 Posted by frannkzappa (3101 posts) -

Remind me what the second means? Out of one, many?

IronBeaver

essentialy.

either way i think its dumb to tie a country down to one religion/god.

#7 Posted by iloverikku11 (11039 posts) -

royal-blue-community-flag-e-pluribus-anu

Neither

#8 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

Remind me what the second means? Out of one, many?

IronBeaver
I believe you have that backwards....
#9 Posted by JohnF111 (14047 posts) -
I'll go with the second one, the one that was derived from a salad recipe.
#10 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.
#11 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -
Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.Zeviander
The country was founded on religious freedom.
#12 Posted by Phaze-Two (3444 posts) -

I think having a secular motto promotes religious freedom more, as it's nuetral and fair to people who don't believe in a god.

#13 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
The country was founded on religious freedom.LJS9502_basic
And this differs from what I said, how? Religious freedom is a secular value.
#14 Posted by Phaze-Two (3444 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The country was founded on religious freedom.Zeviander
And this differs from what I said, how? Religious freedom is a secular value.

People who try to use the fact that this country was founded on religious freedom as a way of promoting religion are missing the point, and can't understand how they've missed the point. Maybe that's a big reason why they are religious in the first place.

#15 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150066 posts) -

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The country was founded on religious freedom.Phaze-Two

And this differs from what I said, how? Religious freedom is a secular value.

People who try to use the fact that this country was founded on religious freedom as a way of promoting religion are missing the point, and can't understand how they've missed the point. Maybe that's a big reason why they are religious in the first place.

Seems you missed the point...
#16 Posted by frannkzappa (3101 posts) -

[QUOTE="Zeviander"]Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.LJS9502_basic
The country was founded on religious freedom.

yeah for christian sects.

i can guarantee you they wanted nothing to do with Jews/Hindus/Muslims.

#17 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Zeviander"]Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.frannkzappa

The country was founded on religious freedom.

yeah for christian sects.

i can guarantee you they wanted nothing to do with Jews/Hindus/Muslims.

This is true. Those who professed another religion or faith were miniscule in the colonies. Still, religion was never mentioned in the Constitution other than that there would be no religious test. Also, "Under God" was added to the Declration of Indepdence during the 1950s and "In God We Trust" was added after the horrors of the Civil War, to show the unity of this country.

#18 Posted by CycleOfViolence (3314 posts) -

E pluribus unum.

I'll take our first motto over the one adopted at the height of the Second Red Scare.

#19 Posted by Rhazakna (11022 posts) -
Religion vs statism. It's a battle with no winners. Both define America, unfortunately.
#20 Posted by J-man45 (11043 posts) -

Obviously E. Pluribus Unum represents the country better, although I wish In God We Trust did.

#21 Posted by Philokalia (3238 posts) -

Most americans don't agree with you. Just saying.

#22 Posted by Inconsistancy (8091 posts) -
[QUOTE="Zeviander"]Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.LJS9502_basic
The country was founded on religious freedom.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Yup, the State should, in no way, support an establishment of religion.

#23 Posted by BosoxJoe5 (247 posts) -

This is true. Those who professed another religion or faith were miniscule in the colonies. Still, religion was never mentioned in the Constitution other than that there would be no religious test. Also, "Under God" was added to the Declration of Indepdence during the 1950s and "In God We Trust" was added after the horrors of the Civil War, to show the unity of this country.

leviathan91

You are incorrect. Under God is not in the Declaration of Independence. How ever ther are many mentions to God and the Creator. The Founding Father were deist beleiving in a God but not in religion. They never intended to have a Godless country. The Pledge was created after the Civil War, and Under God was added in the 50's to avoid soudning Marxist. The hand on your heart part was added to be less Nazi-like.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

#24 Posted by Blood-Scribe (6465 posts) -

I think it's kinda silly that it got changed to "In God We Trust" during the 1950s, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it get changed back to what it originally was. But honestly, I don't really care all that much when it comes to matters such as the national motto or the fact that "under God" got put into the Pledge of Allegiance because it doesn't really matter in any practical sense. It's just a bit of an eyesore and a small affront to what was originally intended, but nothing much more than that.

#25 Posted by Philokalia (3238 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Zeviander"]Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.Inconsistancy
The country was founded on religious freedom.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Yup, the State should, in no way, support an establishment of religion.

If Only it didn't feel the need to abridge their right to practice.

#26 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

This is true. Those who professed another religion or faith were miniscule in the colonies. Still, religion was never mentioned in the Constitution other than that there would be no religious test. Also, "Under God" was added to the Declration of Indepdence during the 1950s and "In God We Trust" was added after the horrors of the Civil War, to show the unity of this country.

BosoxJoe5

You are incorrect. Under God is not in the Declaration of Independence. How ever ther are many mentions to God and the Creator. The Founding Father were deist beleiving in a God but not in religion. They never intended to have a Godless country. The Pledge was created after the Civil War, and Under God was added in the 50's to avoid soudning Marxist. The hand on your heart part was added to be less Nazi-like.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

Haha oh gawd, I mean the pledge of allegiance. :lol: :P

Long night.

#27 Posted by layton2012 (3653 posts) -

Many people could make a very convincing argent that "In God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.

#28 Posted by Rhazakna (11022 posts) -
The founders weren't anywhere near as anti-religion as modern day liberals would lead people to believe. They only had a problem with a Federal state church. Church and state separation was not originally supposed to apply to the states.
#29 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.layton2012

It has been challenged several times before but the Supreme Court found it constitutional on grounds that it was merely patriotic. However, a mojority of Americans see the motto as religious.

#30 Posted by layton2012 (3653 posts) -

[QUOTE="layton2012"]Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.leviathan91

It has been challenged several times before but the Supreme Court found it constitutional on grounds that it was merely patriotic. However, a mojority of Americans see the motto as religious.

Which is why it's never been changed, that doesn't change the fact that it is religious, and should be change but won't, just how under god should be removed from the pledge, it is unconstitutional but is consider patriotic by our leaders, I personally find it offensive to any who have different religions.
#31 Posted by Phaze-Two (3444 posts) -

Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.layton2012

...in that you'd have to first establish that you are, in fact, god.

#32 Posted by layton2012 (3653 posts) -

[QUOTE="layton2012"]Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.Phaze-Two

...in that you'd have to first establish that you are, in fact, god.

Stupid Typo. Autocorrect truly sucks. Thanks

#33 Posted by Phaze-Two (3444 posts) -

[QUOTE="Phaze-Two"]

[QUOTE="layton2012"]Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.layton2012

...in that you'd have to first establish that you are, in fact, god.

Stupid Typo. Autocorrect truly sucks. Thanks

ah, see. I thought it was too much of a coincidence that you put the apostrophe in there too. I don't wanna be thought of as the guy who corrects people for clearly making typos.

#34 Posted by lo_Pine (5048 posts) -

God.

#35 Posted by ca5albert (92 posts) -
I think having a secular motto promotes religious freedom more
#36 Posted by wis3boi (31009 posts) -

Gotta go with the latin. Not because I'm an atheist, but because as you said, "In God We Trust" is not what the US was founded on. THe constitution makes no mention of rany gods and is stricly baclk and white separation of church and state. Only in recent decades is the US growing more and more into a place where religion has a hand in politics and such, and it's not what the founding fathers wanted....they are probably rolling in their graves.

#37 Posted by TheWalkingGhost (5046 posts) -
 .
#38 Posted by krazykillaz (21141 posts) -
E pluribus unum is a much better motto. It sounds better and it makes far more sense for our country. Out of many, one. Many states, one country. Et cetera, et cetera.
#39 Posted by TheShadowLord07 (22110 posts) -

 .TheWalkingGhost

/thread

#40 Posted by Postmortem123 (7623 posts) -

E. Pluribus Unum.

On another note, I really wish my nation's motto and anthem was changed...

#41 Posted by topsemag55 (19063 posts) -

The motto first appeared on a 2-cent coin in 1864. It has been in continuous use on the penny since 1909, and the dime since 1916.

From the BEP FAQ:

Why is the phrase In God We Trust on U.S. currency?

The use of the national motto on both U.S. coins and notes is required by two statutes, 31 U.S.C. 5112(d) (1) and 5114(b), respectively. The motto was not adopted for use on U.S. paper money until 1957. It first appeared on some 1935G Series $1 Silver Certificates, but didn't appear on U.S. Federal Reserve Notes until the Series 1963 currency. This use of the national motto has been challenged in court many times over the years that it has been in use, and has been consistently upheld by the various courts of this country, including the U.S. Supreme Court as recently as 1977.

The Department of the Treasury and the Department of Justice intend to actively defend against challenges to the use of the national motto.

http://www.moneyfactory.gov/faqlibrary.html

Other countries have had similar statements on their cash (Netherlands, Brazil, and UK coins ( "Elizabeth II D.G. REG. F.D.")).

"Aronow v. United States," 432 F.2d 242 (1970) in the United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit The court ruled that:

"It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise."

#42 Posted by GreySeal9 (24005 posts) -

I think it's kinda silly that it got changed to "In God We Trust" during the 1950s, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it get changed back to what it originally was. But honestly, I don't really care all that much when it comes to matters such as the national motto or the fact that "under God" got put into the Pledge of Allegiance because it doesn't really matter in any practical sense. It's just a bit of an eyesore and a small affront to what was originally intended, but nothing much more than that.

Blood-Scribe

This. This issue doesn't matter.

#43 Posted by Silenthps (7274 posts) -
Why do people assume that the statement "In God We Trust" is not a secular statement?
#44 Posted by Inconsistancy (8091 posts) -

Why do people assume that the statement "In God We Trust" is not a secular statement?Silenthps
Because 'god' is an innately religious entity? What other use does the word have, where else are there gods besides religion? (art?)

secular - of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.

#45 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

Why do people assume that the statement "In God We Trust" is not a secular statement?Silenthps

A majority of Americans find it religious (not saying they oppose it) but the Supreme Court finds it not religious but rather patriotic. There were also other reasons but I forget.

#46 Posted by Silenthps (7274 posts) -

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]Why do people assume that the statement "In God We Trust" is not a secular statement?Inconsistancy

Because 'god' is an innately religious entity? What other use does the word have, where else are there gods besides religion? (art?)

secular - of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.

Secularity (adjective form secular[1], meaning: "worldly" or "temporal") is the state of being separate from religion, or not being exclusively allied to any particular religion. In God We Trust is not exclusive to any particular religion. Nor is 'god' innately religious. Other uses for the word is when people say oh my god which even atheist say.
#48 Posted by AdamPA1006 (6417 posts) -
Heaven forbid we use the dirty word God on anything
#49 Posted by Inconsistancy (8091 posts) -

Secularity (adjective form secular[1], meaning: "worldly" or "temporal") is the state of being separate from religion, or not being exclusively allied to any particular religion.

In God We Trust is not exclusive to any particular religion. Nor is 'god' innately religious. Other uses for the word is when people say oh my god which even atheist say. Silenthps

How is it not? In ----GOD---- We Trust, what do we trust in? God! "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

In 'oh my god'(or oy vey) you're saying the emotion exasperation, dismay or exclamation, but we're not Elcor, so we don't say which emotion we're using. What exactly 'is' the word 'god' saying?

The State should be more careful with words and use statements with as little gray as possible in thier interpritations: E Pluribus Unum, in no way is not secular. Out of many, one. "Never a miscommunication, you can't explain that!" Much better.

#50 Posted by Netherscourge (16328 posts) -

If you believe in the Greek Gods, I don't think many people would be trusting Zeus.

Just saying... Dude was a sleaze