In God We Trust vs E. Pluribus Unum

I know, I know this is a random topic where we should be talking about chicken sandwiches and evil Muslims, and this question is probably very old and overdone. Or maybe not, I don't know.

Personally, I feel the motto "In God We Trust" doesn't represent our country at all. It is the official motto only because it was done out of fear and to differentiate ourselves from the atheistic Soviet Union. Although "E. Pluribus Unum" was never our official motto but rather our de facto motto, I felt that it best represented our country, from the unity of the thirteen colonies to the melting pot of today.

So OT what's your opinion?

Yea, the "In god we trust" thing should be removed. l4dak47

Remind me what the second means? Out of one, many?

Remind me what the second means? Out of one, many?

IronBeaver

Remind me what the second means? Out of one, many?

IronBeaver

essentialy.

either way i think its dumb to tie a country down to one religion/god.

Neither

Remind me what the second means? Out of one, many?

IronBeaver

Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.Zeviander

I think having a secular motto promotes religious freedom more, as it's nuetral and fair to people who don't believe in a god.

The country was founded on religious freedom.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The country was founded on religious freedom.Zeviander

People who try to use the fact that this country was founded on religious freedom as a way of promoting religion are missing the point, and can't understand how they've missed the point. Maybe that's a big reason why they are religious in the first place.

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The country was founded on religious freedom.Phaze-Two

People who try to use the fact that this country was founded on religious freedom as a way of promoting religion are missing the point, and can't understand how they've missed the point. Maybe that's a big reason why they are religious in the first place.

[QUOTE="Zeviander"]Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.LJS9502_basic

yeah for christian sects.

i can guarantee you they wanted nothing to do with Jews/Hindus/Muslims.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Zeviander"]Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.frannkzappa

yeah for christian sects.

i can guarantee you they wanted nothing to do with Jews/Hindus/Muslims.

This is true. Those who professed another religion or faith were miniscule in the colonies. Still, religion was never mentioned in the Constitution other than that there would be no religious test. Also, "Under God" was added to the Declration of Indepdence during the 1950s and "In God We Trust" was added after the horrors of the Civil War, to show the unity of this country.

E pluribus unum.

I'll take our first motto over the one adopted at the height of the Second Red Scare.

Obviously E. Pluribus Unum represents the country better, although I wish In God We Trust did.

Most americans don't agree with you. Just saying.

[QUOTE="Zeviander"]Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.LJS9502_basic

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Yup, the State should, in no way, support an establishment of religion.

This is true. Those who professed another religion or faith were miniscule in the colonies. Still, religion was never mentioned in the Constitution other than that there would be no religious test. Also, "Under God" was added to the Declration of Indepdence during the 1950s and "In God We Trust" was added after the horrors of the Civil War, to show the unity of this country.

leviathan91

You are incorrect. Under God is not in the Declaration of Independence. How ever ther are many mentions to God and the Creator. The Founding Father were deist beleiving in a God but not in religion. They never intended to have a Godless country. The Pledge was created after the Civil War, and Under God was added in the 50's to avoid soudning Marxist. The hand on your heart part was added to be less Nazi-like.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

I think it's kinda silly that it got changed to "In God We Trust" during the 1950s, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it get changed back to what it originally was. But honestly, I don't really care all that much when it comes to matters such as the national motto or the fact that "under God" got put into the Pledge of Allegiance because it doesn't really matter in any practical sense. It's just a bit of an eyesore and a small affront to what was originally intended, but nothing much more than that.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Zeviander"]Considering that America was founded as a purely secular nation, "In God We Trust" pretty much violates the Constitution.Inconsistancy

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Yup, the State should, in no way, support an establishment of religion.

If Only it didn't feel the need to abridge their right to practice.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

This is true. Those who professed another religion or faith were miniscule in the colonies. Still, religion was never mentioned in the Constitution other than that there would be no religious test. Also, "Under God" was added to the Declration of Indepdence during the 1950s and "In God We Trust" was added after the horrors of the Civil War, to show the unity of this country.

BosoxJoe5

You are incorrect. Under God is not in the Declaration of Independence. How ever ther are many mentions to God and the Creator. The Founding Father were deist beleiving in a God but not in religion. They never intended to have a Godless country. The Pledge was created after the Civil War, and Under God was added in the 50's to avoid soudning Marxist. The hand on your heart part was added to be less Nazi-like.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

Haha oh gawd, I mean the pledge of allegiance. :lol: :P

Long night.

Many people could make a very convincing argent that "In God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.

Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.layton2012

It has been challenged several times before but the Supreme Court found it constitutional on grounds that it was merely patriotic. However, a mojority of Americans see the motto as religious.

[QUOTE="layton2012"]Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.leviathan91

It has been challenged several times before but the Supreme Court found it constitutional on grounds that it was merely patriotic. However, a mojority of Americans see the motto as religious.

Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.layton2012

...in that you'd have to first establish that you are, in fact, god.

[QUOTE="layton2012"]Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.Phaze-Two

...in that you'd have to first establish that you are, in fact, god.

[QUOTE="Phaze-Two"]

[QUOTE="layton2012"]Many people could make a very convincing argent that "I'm God we trust" is unconstitutional. It violates the establishment clause.layton2012

...in that you'd have to first establish that you are, in fact, god.

ah, see. I thought it was too much of a coincidence that you put the apostrophe in there too. I don't wanna be thought of as the guy who corrects people for clearly making typos.

God.

Gotta go with the latin. Not because I'm an atheist, but because as you said, "In God We Trust" is not what the US was founded on. THe constitution makes no mention of rany gods and is stricly baclk and white separation of church and state. Only in recent decades is the US growing more and more into a place where religion has a hand in politics and such, and it's not what the founding fathers wanted....they are probably rolling in their graves.

.TheWalkingGhost

/thread

E. Pluribus Unum.

On another note, I really wish my nation's motto and anthem was changed...

The motto first appeared on a 2-cent coin in 1864. It has been in continuous use on the penny since 1909, and the dime since 1916.

From the BEP FAQ:

Why is the phrase In God We Trust on U.S. currency?

The use of the national motto on both U.S. coins and notes is required by two statutes, 31 U.S.C. 5112(d) (1) and 5114(b), respectively. The motto was not adopted for use on U.S. paper money until 1957. It first appeared on some 1935G Series $1 Silver Certificates, but didn't appear on U.S. Federal Reserve Notes until the Series 1963 currency. This use of the national motto has been challenged in court many times over the years that it has been in use, and has been consistently upheld by the various courts of this country, including the U.S. Supreme Court as recently as 1977.

The Department of the Treasury and the Department of Justice intend to actively defend against challenges to the use of the national motto.

http://www.moneyfactory.gov/faqlibrary.html

Other countries have had similar statements on their cash (Netherlands, Brazil, and UK coins ( "Elizabeth II D.G. REG. F.D.")).

"Aronow v. United States," 432 F.2d 242 (1970) in the United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit The court ruled that:

"It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise."

I think it's kinda silly that it got changed to "In God We Trust" during the 1950s, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it get changed back to what it originally was. But honestly, I don't really care all that much when it comes to matters such as the national motto or the fact that "under God" got put into the Pledge of Allegiance because it doesn't really matter in any practical sense. It's just a bit of an eyesore and a small affront to what was originally intended, but nothing much more than that.

Blood-Scribe

This. This issue doesn't matter.

Why do people assume that the statement "In God We Trust" is not a secular statement?Silenthps

secular - of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.

Why do people assume that the statement "In God We Trust" is not a secular statement?Silenthps

A majority of Americans find it religious (not saying they oppose it) but the Supreme Court finds it not religious but rather patriotic. There were also other reasons but I forget.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]Why do people assume that the statement "In God We Trust" is not a secular statement?Inconsistancy

secular - of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.

Secularity (adjective form secular[1], meaning: "worldly" or "temporal") is the state of being separate from religion, or not being exclusively allied to any particular religion.

In God We Trust is not exclusive to any particular religion. Nor is 'god' innately religious. Other uses for the word is when people say oh my god which even atheist say. Silenthps

In 'oh my god'(or oy vey) you're saying the emotion exasperation, dismay or exclamation, but we're not Elcor, so we don't say which emotion we're using. What exactly 'is' the word 'god' saying?

The State should be more careful with words and use statements with as little gray as possible in thier interpritations: E Pluribus Unum, in no way is not secular. Out of many, one. "Never a miscommunication, you can't explain that!" Much better.

If you believe in the Greek Gods, I don't think many people would be trusting Zeus.

Just saying... Dude was a sleaze