Hugo Chavez is Dead

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#251 Posted by lo_Pine (5048 posts) -

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Translation: "I am ignorant."

They have some of the world's largest oil reserves. Yeah, Venezuela matters.

worlock77

There's other oil in the world for us. Venezuela depends on the US more than the US depends on Venezuela.

Stricly speaking the US imports more oil from Canada than any other country. Followed by Mexico. That isn't the point however. Whenever you hold one of the largest reserves of oil in the world that makes you significant.

To have big oil reserves makes you more significant, indeed. To have no nuclear weapons, does that make you significant?
#252 Posted by jetpower3 (11614 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] There's other oil in the world for us. Venezuela depends on the US more than the US depends on Venezuela.lo_Pine

Stricly speaking the US imports more oil from Canada than any other country. Followed by Mexico. That isn't the point however. Whenever you hold one of the largest reserves of oil in the world that makes you significant.

To have big oil reserves makes you more significant, indeed. To have no nuclear weapons, does that make you significant?

Some pretty poor and non-nuclear states seem to take up a large amount of our attention and spending nowadays. But to answer your question more completely, a nation can be both oil rich and nuclear armed (Russia), one or the other (Pakistan/Iraq/Iran), or neither (Syria/Afghanistan), and still seem to dictate a lot of the U.S.'s foreign policy.

#253 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] There's other oil in the world for us. Venezuela depends on the US more than the US depends on Venezuela.lo_Pine

Stricly speaking the US imports more oil from Canada than any other country. Followed by Mexico. That isn't the point however. Whenever you hold one of the largest reserves of oil in the world that makes you significant.

To have big oil reserves makes you more significant, indeed. To have no nuclear weapons, does that make you significant?

Tell me, what do you think happens to fuel prices if one of the world's biggest oil nations suddenly decides to stop exporting their oil?

#254 Posted by lo_Pine (5048 posts) -

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Stricly speaking the US imports more oil from Canada than any other country. Followed by Mexico. That isn't the point however. Whenever you hold one of the largest reserves of oil in the world that makes you significant.

jetpower3

To have big oil reserves makes you more significant, indeed. To have no nuclear weapons, does that make you significant?

Some pretty poor and non-nuclear states seem to take up a large amount of our attention and spending nowadays. But to answer your question more completely, a nation can be both oil rich and nuclear armed (Russia), one or the other (Pakistan/Iraq/Iran), or neither (Syria/Afghanistan), and still seem to dictate a lot of the U.S.'s foreign policy.

Pakistan does have nukes which is why they get more attention. We thought Iraq had nukes, turns out they don't. Iran gets a lot of attention because we want to prevent them from getting nukes and Syria/Afghanistan get attention because the media feels obligated to talk about them since the US (in Afghanistan's case) is invested in. In Syria's case, the US is expected to be invested in their civil conflict. Out of the countries you mentioned, Pakistan is the only real power player. Venezuela has oil. So what. What are they going to do to keep us from taking it?
#255 Posted by lo_Pine (5048 posts) -

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Stricly speaking the US imports more oil from Canada than any other country. Followed by Mexico. That isn't the point however. Whenever you hold one of the largest reserves of oil in the world that makes you significant.

worlock77

To have big oil reserves makes you more significant, indeed. To have no nuclear weapons, does that make you significant?

Tell me, what do you think happens to fuel prices if one of the world's biggest oil nations suddenly decides to stop exporting their oil?

Irrelevant. Where would they get their money if they stop selling oil?
#256 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] To have big oil reserves makes you more significant, indeed. To have no nuclear weapons, does that make you significant?lo_Pine

Tell me, what do you think happens to fuel prices if one of the world's biggest oil nations suddenly decides to stop exporting their oil?

Irrelevant. Where would they get their money if they stop selling oil?

Not irrelevant. What do you think happens?

#257 Posted by mmwmwmmwmwmm (620 posts) -
He was a communist and a thief. The people of Venezuela are better off without him.
#258 Posted by lo_Pine (5048 posts) -

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Tell me, what do you think happens to fuel prices if one of the world's biggest oil nations suddenly decides to stop exporting their oil?

worlock77

Irrelevant. Where would they get their money if they stop selling oil?

Not irrelevant. What do you think happens?

Their economy collapses. Almost half of their oil exports are to the United States alone (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=venezuela+oil+exports+&go=&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=venezuela+oil+exports+&sc=5-21&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&id=7144DAE67FECE312C796349FEB07B68CAA35C4D5&selectedIndex=0) And oil exports make up about 20% of their economy. Foreign investment in Venezuela would also decrease significantly if Venezuela decided to stop exporting oil, even if only to the United States.

#259 Posted by Shmiity (5040 posts) -

I feel badly saying this- but I think we're all better off without him. 

#260 Posted by worlock77 (22547 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] Irrelevant. Where would they get their money if they stop selling oil?lo_Pine

Not irrelevant. What do you think happens?

Their economy collapses. Almost half of their oil exports are to the United States alone (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=venezuela+oil+exports+&go=&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=venezuela+oil+exports+&sc=5-21&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&id=7144DAE67FECE312C796349FEB07B68CAA35C4D5&selectedIndex=0) And oil exports make up about 20% of their economy. Foreign investment in Venezuela would also decrease significantly if Venezuela decided to stop exporting oil, even if only to the United States.

Ok. Now do you want to answer the question I asked you?

#261 Posted by lo_Pine (5048 posts) -

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Not irrelevant. What do you think happens?

worlock77

Their economy collapses. Almost half of their oil exports are to the United States alone (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=venezuela+oil+exports+&go=&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=venezuela+oil+exports+&sc=5-21&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&id=7144DAE67FECE312C796349FEB07B68CAA35C4D5&selectedIndex=0) And oil exports make up about 20% of their economy. Foreign investment in Venezuela would also decrease significantly if Venezuela decided to stop exporting oil, even if only to the United States.

Ok. Now do you want to answer the question I asked you?

lmao... you didn't even answer my question in the first place. And I answered you're question by saying the Venezuelan economy collapses if they stop selling oil. If you are talking about fuel prices going up, they would increase by very little because no matter how much Venezuela supplies to the US which is at most 10%. The US demand for oil is too high so other countries would not forgo the opportunity to capitalize on the US oil market by lowering their prices to remain competitive.
#262 Posted by mmwmwmmwmwmm (620 posts) -

I feel badly saying this- but I think we're all better off without him. 

Shmiity
There is no reason to feel bad about it. He was a criminal. A thief. A thug with guns.
#263 Posted by thebest31406 (3323 posts) -

549988_350201915084916_460481120_n.jpg

 

Dictator?  I think not.

#264 Posted by mmwmwmmwmwmm (620 posts) -

549988_350201915084916_460481120_n.jpg

 

Dictator?  I think not.

thebest31406

Here are some pictures of North Koreans mourning Kim Jong Il's death.

[spoiler]

North-Korea-Kim-Jong-Il-The-Funeral.jpg

KimJongIlMournersDec21AP_large.jpg

lxra3b-b78902921z.120120113131809000glh1

kim-jong-il-funeral-image-7-528492098.jp

article-2079237-0F4A1D3100000578-75_964x

111221045719-north-korea-mourners-story-

kimjungil_funeral_06_slide-edcadcaf7b6f1 [/spoiler]

lol

I guess he wasn't a dictator either. He was even democratically elected into his offices.

#265 Posted by thebest31406 (3323 posts) -

[QUOTE="thebest31406"]

549988_350201915084916_460481120_n.jpg

 

Dictator?  I think not.

mmwmwmmwmwmm

Here are some pictures of North Koreans mourning Kim Jong Il's death.

[spoiler]

North-Korea-Kim-Jong-Il-The-Funeral.jpg

KimJongIlMournersDec21AP_large.jpg

lxra3b-b78902921z.120120113131809000glh1

kim-jong-il-funeral-image-7-528492098.jp

article-2079237-0F4A1D3100000578-75_964x

111221045719-north-korea-mourners-story-

kimjungil_funeral_06_slide-edcadcaf7b6f1 [/spoiler]

lol

I guess he wasn't a dictator either. He was even democratically elected into his offices.

Yeah but 9 million people that's a world record.
#266 Posted by Celldrax (14565 posts) -

Being the politically apathetic individual I am.....I had to look up this name.

#267 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150351 posts) -
I don't care...
#268 Posted by sSubZerOo (43082 posts) -

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Yeah, because fixing elections and nationalizing an oil company(by military force) makes him such a great guy!

worlock77

Interesting you bring this up. I'm sure you're aware of the United Fruit Company? The US company that had an agricultural monopoly in Guatemala and because the government was doing things that threatened that monopoly, the UFC lobbied 2 US presidents and managed to get authorization to essentially hire the services of the CIA to overthrow the Guatemalan government and replace it with a more US friendly puppet government. This sparked a civil war that would kill hundreds of thousands.

And people wonder why Latin America is suspicious of the US.

Also I'm sure it's just coincidence that John Foster Dulles, the U.S. Secretary of State, and his brother Allen Dulles, the director of the CIA, both owned significant stock in the United Fruit Company.

  Hilarious no? The US has directly supported far worse people then Chavez in the recent past, but if people were to read these threads they would think he was the next Skeletor.. 

#269 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (15919 posts) -

I don't know the guy. He seems to have a lot of admirers. If I was visiting Venezuela during his wake, I'd probably pay my respects just out of curiosity.

#270 Posted by jetpower3 (11614 posts) -

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]

[QUOTE="thebest31406"]

549988_350201915084916_460481120_n.jpg

 

Dictator?  I think not.

thebest31406

Here are some pictures of North Koreans mourning Kim Jong Il's death.

[spoiler]

North-Korea-Kim-Jong-Il-The-Funeral.jpg

KimJongIlMournersDec21AP_large.jpg

lxra3b-b78902921z.120120113131809000glh1

kim-jong-il-funeral-image-7-528492098.jp

article-2079237-0F4A1D3100000578-75_964x

111221045719-north-korea-mourners-story-

kimjungil_funeral_06_slide-edcadcaf7b6f1 [/spoiler]

lol

I guess he wasn't a dictator either. He was even democratically elected into his offices.

Yeah but 9 million people that's a world record.

Do you have an exact source for the 9 million figure?

#271 Posted by kingkong0124 (8710 posts) -
thebest31406
hitler was also loved...and he was a dictator
#272 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="thebest31406"]kingkong0124
hitler was also loved...and he was a dictator

Why do you people say he was a dictator where's the proof? He was elected with 60% confirmed as legit by international observers of the electorate and Venezuela held 12 popular referendums on his rule. More than any country in the American Continent, even the US.
#273 Posted by one_plum (6348 posts) -

[QUOTE="thebest31406"]kingkong0124
hitler was also loved...and he was a dictator

That's why the people took it to the streets to mourn Hitler's death after he shot himself...

#274 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -

On the topic of dictators, Chavez did do things like take over companies and fire thousands of the people working for said companies who expressed political opposition to Chavez and told them to leave the country. Apparently that's why my Venezuelan friend is now in the states. Needless to say, he wasn't too unhappy with Chavez' passing.

coolbeans90

The people who got out of Venezuela were the wealthiest people. Venezuela was the poorest country in the region before Chávez took office and he lowered wealthy people's income so that he could take people out of poverty. He also nationalized oil industries to use that money for social programs when before only 1% of oil money was kept for the Venezuelan people and the rest was taken by foreign companies. If that means being a dictator then I welcome dictators more than presidents since they seem to do things right for once... but no he was actually a democratically elected president.

Thanks to Chávez initiative the Unasur, Celac, the Unasur Defense Council and the Bank of the South were created which were institutions crucial to make Latin America one of the few regions not affected by the economic crisis, in fact their economy grew, unemployment lowered and the social gap shrank.

I bet all those Venzuelans will go back to their country in a heartbeat once the region starts booming economically thanks to what their former president did.

#275 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
Here is an article written by Lula former president of Brazil and the one who worked closer with Chávez. Brazil is now becoming an economical power when before no one would have imagined it to be possible. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/opinion/latin-america-after-chavez.html?emc=eta1&_r=0
#276 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -

He wasnt as bad as people made him out to be, but I still think he's a criminal. 

I do feel sorry for him though. 

BossPerson
He brought the country misery and poverty.... He was as bad as people made him out to be.
#277 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

On the topic of dictators, Chavez did do things like take over companies and fire thousands of the people working for said companies who expressed political opposition to Chavez and told them to leave the country. Apparently that's why my Venezuelan friend is now in the states. Needless to say, he wasn't too unhappy with Chavez' passing.

kuraimen

The people who got out of Venezuela were the wealthiest people. Venezuela was the poorest country in the region before Chávez took office and he lowered wealthy people's income so that he could take people out of poverty. He also nationalized oil industries to use that money for social programs when before only 1% of oil money was kept for the Venezuelan people and the rest was taken by foreign companies. If that means being a dictator then I welcome dictators more than presidents since they seem to do things right for once... but no he was actually a democratically elected president.

Thanks to Chávez initiative the Unasur, Celac, the Unasur Defense Council and the Bank of the South were created which were institutions crucial to make Latin America one of the few regions not affected by the economic crisis, in fact their economy grew, unemployment lowered and the social gap shrank.

I bet all those Venzuelans will go back to their country in a heartbeat once the region starts booming economically thanks to what their former president did.

I doubt it. Venezuela will not be stable for a while. The elections is 30 days will decide the future, I doubt the opposition will win, and if the opposition wins I doubt the "Chavistas" will take it lightly. Knowing the ways Chavez used to win elections anyways.
#279 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -

@kuraimen

It's one thing to carry out policies intended to help the poor. For all I know, they may have been effective policies (I'm not too familiar with the economic conditions of Venezuela, past and present). It's another to fire thousands of middle class engineers because they do not agree with said policies. In fact, I'd call it outright oppressive.

coolbeans90
Nationalizing =/= firing. Where do you get he fired so many people? And if firing people is such a crime then all big companies in the world should be prosecuted since they have fired thousands of people during the economic crisis. Some changes need drastic measures. In this case what Chávez did was crucial to a brighter future for the whole region.
#280 Posted by thebest31406 (3323 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="thebest31406"]one_plum

hitler was also loved...and he was a dictator

That's why the people took it to the streets to mourn Hitler's death after he shot himself...

#281 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

On the topic of dictators, Chavez did do things like take over companies and fire thousands of the people working for said companies who expressed political opposition to Chavez and told them to leave the country. Apparently that's why my Venezuelan friend is now in the states. Needless to say, he wasn't too unhappy with Chavez' passing.

DeadMan1290

The people who got out of Venezuela were the wealthiest people. Venezuela was the poorest country in the region before Chávez took office and he lowered wealthy people's income so that he could take people out of poverty. He also nationalized oil industries to use that money for social programs when before only 1% of oil money was kept for the Venezuelan people and the rest was taken by foreign companies. If that means being a dictator then I welcome dictators more than presidents since they seem to do things right for once... but no he was actually a democratically elected president.

Thanks to Chávez initiative the Unasur, Celac, the Unasur Defense Council and the Bank of the South were created which were institutions crucial to make Latin America one of the few regions not affected by the economic crisis, in fact their economy grew, unemployment lowered and the social gap shrank.

I bet all those Venzuelans will go back to their country in a heartbeat once the region starts booming economically thanks to what their former president did.

I doubt it. Venezuela will not be stable for a while. The elections is 30 days will decide the future, I doubt the opposition will win, and if the opposition wins I doubt the "Chavistas" will take it lightly. Knowing the ways Chavez used to win elections anyways.

What "ways"? This is what is hilarious about Chávez haters. They talk like they know what the hell is going on but they can´t show anything. Tell me if the elections were so shady how come ALL those international observers said they were fine. Please get serious.
#282 Posted by thebest31406 (3323 posts) -

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="thebest31406"] hitler was also loved...and he was a dictatorone_plum

That's why the people took it to the streets to mourn Hitler's death after he shot himself...

@kuraimen

It's one thing to carry out policies intended to help the poor. For all I know, they may have been effective policies (I'm not too familiar with the economic conditions of Venezuela, past and present). It's another to fire thousands of middle class engineers because they do not agree with said policies. In fact, I'd call it outright oppressive.

coolbeans90
Best thing he did was break the class barrier.
#283 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -

@kuraimen

It's one thing to carry out policies intended to help the poor. For all I know, they may have been effective policies (I'm not too familiar with the economic conditions of Venezuela, past and present). It's another to fire thousands of middle class engineers because they do not agree with said policies. In fact, I'd call it outright oppressive.

coolbeans90
All Chavez did was give Colombians and Cubans citizenships and jobs (firing Venezuelan employees from their jobs to give it to them) and for what? To get more votes, more people to follow him, he also gave pensions to workers from 30-40 years ago who never even got pension and also gave unemployed people, mothers who were alone with their kids money per month.... I lived with a lady that her husband was an Oil Engineer who worked for PDVSA the biggest oil company in Venezuela, in 2002 in the failed Coup D'Etat against Chavez he signed a petition to kick Chavez out of power and when it all failed Chavez fired everyone who signed against him. That man was left with no job, he couldn't go to any other job in the country, he couldn't even do groceries in the country, since now in Venezuela when you're going to pay your groceries in the supermarket you must give your I.D. # to monitor everyone who is against or with Chavez, so the guy left the country, obviously....
#284 Posted by thebest31406 (3323 posts) -
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

@kuraimen

It's one thing to carry out policies intended to help the poor. For all I know, they may have been effective policies (I'm not too familiar with the economic conditions of Venezuela, past and present). It's another to fire thousands of middle class engineers because they do not agree with said policies. In fact, I'd call it outright oppressive.

kuraimen
Nationalizing =/= firing. Where do you get he fired so many people? And if firing people is such a crime then all big companies in the world should be prosecuted since they have fired thousands of people during the economic crisis. Some changes need drastic measures. In this case what Chávez did was crucial to a brighter future for the whole region.

He eliminated poverty in just a few years. He's role as Head of State was justified.
#285 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

@kuraimen

It's one thing to carry out policies intended to help the poor. For all I know, they may have been effective policies (I'm not too familiar with the economic conditions of Venezuela, past and present). It's another to fire thousands of middle class engineers because they do not agree with said policies. In fact, I'd call it outright oppressive.

DeadMan1290
All Chavez did was give Colombians and Cubans citizenships and jobs (firing Venezuelan employees from their jobs to give it to them) and for what? To get more votes, more people to follow him, he also gave pensions to workers from 30-40 years ago who never even got pension and also gave unemployed people, mothers who were alone with their kids money per month.... I lived with a lady that her husband was an Oil Engineer who worked for PDVSA the biggest oil company in Venezuela, in 2002 in the failed Coup D'Etat against Chavez he signed a petition to kick Chavez out of power and when it all failed Chavez fired everyone who signed against him. That man was left with no job, he couldn't go to any other job in the country, he couldn't even do groceries in the country, since now in Venezuela when you're going to pay your groceries in the supermarket you must give your I.D. # to monitor everyone who is against or with Chavez, so the guy left the country, obviously....

:roll: Well what would happen to anyone who supports a coup against the US president? I imagine Bradley Manning is getting it light in comparison to what would happen to him.
#286 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]

The people who got out of Venezuela were the wealthiest people. Venezuela was the poorest country in the region before Chávez took office and he lowered wealthy people's income so that he could take people out of poverty. He also nationalized oil industries to use that money for social programs when before only 1% of oil money was kept for the Venezuelan people and the rest was taken by foreign companies. If that means being a dictator then I welcome dictators more than presidents since they seem to do things right for once... but no he was actually a democratically elected president.

Thanks to Chávez initiative the Unasur, Celac, the Unasur Defense Council and the Bank of the South were created which were institutions crucial to make Latin America one of the few regions not affected by the economic crisis, in fact their economy grew, unemployment lowered and the social gap shrank.

I bet all those Venzuelans will go back to their country in a heartbeat once the region starts booming economically thanks to what their former president did.

kuraimen
I doubt it. Venezuela will not be stable for a while. The elections is 30 days will decide the future, I doubt the opposition will win, and if the opposition wins I doubt the "Chavistas" will take it lightly. Knowing the ways Chavez used to win elections anyways.

What "ways"? This is what is hilarious about Chávez haters. They talk like they know what the hell is going on but they can´t show anything. Tell me if the elections were so shady how come ALL those international observers said they were fine. Please get serious.

The thing is back in 2007 when Manuel Rosales was running for presidency he was winning the elections like by 73% (if I'm not mistaken) and when it was 10PM that night votes shifted and Chavez had 73% votes, how did that happen in just an hour and a half? Rumours were Chavez' people kidnapped Rosales' family and threatened him to give votes to Chavez. I'm not saying it happened but the shift votes is fishy.
#287 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

@kuraimen

It's one thing to carry out policies intended to help the poor. For all I know, they may have been effective policies (I'm not too familiar with the economic conditions of Venezuela, past and present). It's another to fire thousands of middle class engineers because they do not agree with said policies. In fact, I'd call it outright oppressive.

thebest31406
Nationalizing =/= firing. Where do you get he fired so many people? And if firing people is such a crime then all big companies in the world should be prosecuted since they have fired thousands of people during the economic crisis. Some changes need drastic measures. In this case what Chávez did was crucial to a brighter future for the whole region.

He eliminated poverty in just a few years. He's role as Head of State was justified.

He did a lot more than that. Really history will give him his place as one of the key figures for a complete change in the history of Latin America.
#288 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

@kuraimen

It's one thing to carry out policies intended to help the poor. For all I know, they may have been effective policies (I'm not too familiar with the economic conditions of Venezuela, past and present). It's another to fire thousands of middle class engineers because they do not agree with said policies. In fact, I'd call it outright oppressive.

kuraimen
All Chavez did was give Colombians and Cubans citizenships and jobs (firing Venezuelan employees from their jobs to give it to them) and for what? To get more votes, more people to follow him, he also gave pensions to workers from 30-40 years ago who never even got pension and also gave unemployed people, mothers who were alone with their kids money per month.... I lived with a lady that her husband was an Oil Engineer who worked for PDVSA the biggest oil company in Venezuela, in 2002 in the failed Coup D'Etat against Chavez he signed a petition to kick Chavez out of power and when it all failed Chavez fired everyone who signed against him. That man was left with no job, he couldn't go to any other job in the country, he couldn't even do groceries in the country, since now in Venezuela when you're going to pay your groceries in the supermarket you must give your I.D. # to monitor everyone who is against or with Chavez, so the guy left the country, obviously....

:roll: Well what would happen to anyone who supports a coup against the US president? I imagine Bradley Manning is getting it light in comparison to what would happen to him.

You encourage what he did?
#289 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Nationalizing =/= firing. Where do you get he fired so many people? And if firing people is such a crime then all big companies in the world should be prosecuted since they have fired thousands of people during the economic crisis. Some changes need drastic measures. In this case what Chávez did was crucial to a brighter future for the whole region.

He eliminated poverty in just a few years. He's role as Head of State was justified.

He did a lot more than that. Really history will give him his place as one of the key figures for a complete change in the history of Latin America.

Only thing I ever agreed with Chavez was his hatred for the US. I don't hate the US but it was about time someone in South America stood up to them.
#290 Posted by Capitan_Kid (6537 posts) -
So seriously people, is this good or bad for Venezuela?
#291 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"] I doubt it. Venezuela will not be stable for a while. The elections is 30 days will decide the future, I doubt the opposition will win, and if the opposition wins I doubt the "Chavistas" will take it lightly. Knowing the ways Chavez used to win elections anyways.

What "ways"? This is what is hilarious about Chávez haters. They talk like they know what the hell is going on but they can´t show anything. Tell me if the elections were so shady how come ALL those international observers said they were fine. Please get serious.

The thing is back in 2007 when Manuel Rosales was running for presidency he was winning the elections like by 73% (if I'm not mistaken) and when it was 10PM that night votes shifted and Chavez had 73% votes, how did that happen in just an hour and a half? Rumours were Chavez' people kidnapped Rosales' family and threatened him to give votes to Chavez. I'm not saying it happened but the shift votes is fishy.

Wut? Look at all the polls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2006 Chávez was always comfortably ahead. Look at the observers too. No one said the election was fraud.
#292 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -
So seriously people, is this good or bad for Venezuela? Capitan_Kid
Good and bad.
#293 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] What "ways"? This is what is hilarious about Chávez haters. They talk like they know what the hell is going on but they can´t show anything. Tell me if the elections were so shady how come ALL those international observers said they were fine. Please get serious.

The thing is back in 2007 when Manuel Rosales was running for presidency he was winning the elections like by 73% (if I'm not mistaken) and when it was 10PM that night votes shifted and Chavez had 73% votes, how did that happen in just an hour and a half? Rumours were Chavez' people kidnapped Rosales' family and threatened him to give votes to Chavez. I'm not saying it happened but the shift votes is fishy.

Wut? Look at all the polls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2006 Chávez was always comfortably ahead. Look at the observers too. No one said the election was fraud.

I don't think 6 years later anyone would want to prove fraud.
#294 Posted by kuraimen (28078 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"] All Chavez did was give Colombians and Cubans citizenships and jobs (firing Venezuelan employees from their jobs to give it to them) and for what? To get more votes, more people to follow him, he also gave pensions to workers from 30-40 years ago who never even got pension and also gave unemployed people, mothers who were alone with their kids money per month.... I lived with a lady that her husband was an Oil Engineer who worked for PDVSA the biggest oil company in Venezuela, in 2002 in the failed Coup D'Etat against Chavez he signed a petition to kick Chavez out of power and when it all failed Chavez fired everyone who signed against him. That man was left with no job, he couldn't go to any other job in the country, he couldn't even do groceries in the country, since now in Venezuela when you're going to pay your groceries in the supermarket you must give your I.D. # to monitor everyone who is against or with Chavez, so the guy left the country, obviously....

:roll: Well what would happen to anyone who supports a coup against the US president? I imagine Bradley Manning is getting it light in comparison to what would happen to him.

You encourage what he did?

Eh I don't know. If you were a president will you not take measures against people who tried to use force to take your presidency? Latin America has a history of that, Allende was the chilean elected president a coup was done, he was murdered, a military dictatorship was installed for many years and thousands of people disappeared or got murdered. You can't blame Chávez for being cautious and taking strong measures.
#295 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150351 posts) -
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Nationalizing =/= firing. Where do you get he fired so many people? And if firing people is such a crime then all big companies in the world should be prosecuted since they have fired thousands of people during the economic crisis. Some changes need drastic measures. In this case what Chávez did was crucial to a brighter future for the whole region.

He eliminated poverty in just a few years. He's role as Head of State was justified.

He did a lot more than that. Really history will give him his place as one of the key figures for a complete change in the history of Latin America.

Or it will show the hidden agenda not yet known.....
#296 Posted by thebest31406 (3323 posts) -
[QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="thebest31406"] He eliminated poverty in just a few years. He's role as Head of State was justified.

He did a lot more than that. Really history will give him his place as one of the key figures for a complete change in the history of Latin America.

Only thing I ever agreed with Chavez was his hatred for the US. I don't hate the US but it was about time someone in South America stood up to them.

Good for most of Latin America. His presence and influence encouraged other Latin American countries to stop abiding by western rule and to make matters into their own hands.
#297 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -

If anyone here would've lived in Venezuela while Chavez was in power you'd see why many left the country and hated him. Not hard to see when you live it.

#298 Posted by DeadMan1290 (15502 posts) -
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DeadMan1290"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] :roll: Well what would happen to anyone who supports a coup against the US president? I imagine Bradley Manning is getting it light in comparison to what would happen to him.

You encourage what he did?

Eh I don't know. If you were a president will you not take measures against people who tried to use force to take your presidency? Latin America has a history of that, Allende was the chilean elected president a coup was done, he was murdered, a military dictatorship was installed for many years and thousands of people disappeared or got murdered. You can't blame Chávez for being cautious and taking strong measures.

In other words he didn't want anyone to do to him what he did to Carlos Andres Perez in '92. Sure it failed, but he did it.