How should transgendered athletes compete?

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#151 Posted by whipassmt (14981 posts) -

[QUOTE="Smokescreened84"]The high level of ignorance in this thread is the usual from cis-genders. Someone who is Male To Female loses any physical advantage they may have had in the past once they are on the HRT and undergo the surgery. airshocker

Bull sh*t.

It's ignorant to allow political correctness to come into something when it's rather clear cut. Someone who has been male their entire lives and then gets a sex change will have an advantage over someone who has been female their entire lives.

Unless testosterone no longer does anything for the body. Which is what you morons are actually saying.

I think they're saying that the person no longer has adequate testosterone levels to have a masculine advantage.

#152 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="whipassmt"] I wasn't talking about "pleasure" though, but of birth.

what's with the asterisk?

whipassmt

I know. I just mentioned the functionality of some trans* vaginas as an aside.

The asterisk in "trans*" is basically a gesture of inclusion for non-binary gender identities e.g. genderqueer, bigender, gender-fluid, pangender, agender, neutrois, etc. It's just a term some of us trans* folks use for the sake of being polite (or PC if you want to think of it that way).

I don't go out of my way to use inclusive language.

To each hir own.
#153 Posted by whipassmt (14981 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] I know. I just mentioned the functionality of some trans* vaginas as an aside.

The asterisk in "trans*" is basically a gesture of inclusion for non-binary gender identities e.g. genderqueer, bigender, gender-fluid, pangender, agender, neutrois, etc. It's just a term some of us trans* folks use for the sake of being polite (or PC if you want to think of it that way).

ghoklebutter

I don't go out of my way to use inclusive language.

To each hir own.

hir?

#154 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -
I don't know much about MMA, but it seems that this problem could be solved by keeping athletic averages of the fighters. You test the fighters for various abilities relevant to fighting (weight lifting speed, strength, etc.), and test each new fighter as they enter the league to keep the average current, with separate averages for men and women. When a transgender fighter wants to step into the ring, you test them like anyone else. If the fall within the average, there shouldn't be a problem. If an MtF trans fighter (for example) falls well outside the average (above or below) then there can be a discussion about advantage and fairness.Rhazakna
I wish someone brought this up earlier.
#155 Posted by airshocker (31410 posts) -

I think they're saying that the person no longer has adequate testosterone levels to have a masculine advantage.

whipassmt

Then they're idiots. That doesn't negate what testosterone has already done to the body.

#156 Posted by Bucked20 (6651 posts) -
[QUOTE="Bucked20"]Men should compete with men and women should compete with women,doesn't matter if you chopped off your dick,you're still a man on the inside Smokescreened84
Wrong. It's been said before, the HRT removes any advantage. And the penis isn't 'chopped off', it's inverted to make the neo-vagina. It's quite the gory process, there are videos of it, best not to eat while watching them.

Still a man stop the bs
#157 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] I don't go out of my way to use inclusive language.

whipassmt

To each hir own.

hir?

It's a gender-neutral possessive pronoun. The full set I and many others use is ze/hir/hirs/they/them/theirs. I don't like them very much but it's the most commonly used gender-neutral set of pronouns within the trans* community.
#158 Posted by whipassmt (14981 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

I think they're saying that the person no longer has adequate testosterone levels to have a masculine advantage.

airshocker

Then they're idiots. That doesn't negate what testosterone has already done to the body.

no need for the name calling, don't shock the air. Be chill me brudda.

#159 Posted by airshocker (31410 posts) -

no need for the name calling, don't shock the air. Be chill me brudda.

whipassmt

Oh be quiet. You're becoming as annoying as kingkong.

#160 Posted by whipassmt (14981 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

no need for the name calling, don't shock the air. Be chill me brudda.

airshocker

Oh be quiet. You're becoming as annoying as kingkong.

Don't be insulting I and I. Bumbaclot.

#161 Posted by airshocker (31410 posts) -

Don't be insulting I and I. Bumbaclot.

whipassmt

This whole rasta thing is pretty fvcking stupid. You know that, right?

#162 Posted by GOGOGOGURT (4470 posts) -

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

[QUOTE="The_Power_of_X"]

Random question: Do the brains of transgender people reflect the gender they feel they are? As in do physical males who feel they are female have more white matter in their brains(like physical females) than grey matter or viceversa for the physical females who feel they're male? I'm just asking because one of the posters above mentioned hormonal imbalances in the womb leading to transgenderism.

Smokescreened84

 

If you have a ding-dong you are male.

If you have a pink taco you are female.

If you have both then you are either a furry or just lucky.

 

 

It really is as simple as that.

Nope, you have it all wrong. A person can't be judged nor regarded by the genitals they were born with. If they were then every male on the planet would be little more than walking, talking penises with brains the size of walnuts. Although in some males case's that would be pretty accurate.

 

WTF?!

Gender has nothing to do with how smart you are, and everything to do with what you're born with.  If you're born with a D, and think you should've had a V so you get surgery, then you are wasting your time.

#163 Posted by whipassmt (14981 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

Don't be insulting I and I. Bumbaclot.

airshocker

This whole rasta thing is pretty fvcking stupid. You know that, right?

Okay. I'm not Jamaican.

#164 Posted by LJS9502_basic (153505 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

I think they're saying that the person no longer has adequate testosterone levels to have a masculine advantage.

whipassmt

Then they're idiots. That doesn't negate what testosterone has already done to the body.

no need for the name calling, don't shock the air. Be chill me brudda.

WTF happened to you?
#165 Posted by whipassmt (14981 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Then they're idiots. That doesn't negate what testosterone has already done to the body.

LJS9502_basic

no need for the name calling, don't shock the air. Be chill me brudda.

WTF happened to you?

What do you mean?

I think it dates back to that time some cop beat me (he claims he was swinging at a bee), he hit me with the handle of his nightstick, right in the head, and now I don't get proper oxygen flow so I need to pump that spot with my finger and breathe (sort of like that sneaker) and I'm liable to just spurt out incoherent shit.

#166 Posted by LJS9502_basic (153505 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] no need for the name calling, don't shock the air. Be chill me brudda.

whipassmt

WTF happened to you?

What do you mean?

I think it dates back to that time some cop beat me (he claims he was swinging at a bee), he hit me with the handle of his nightstick, right in the head, and now I don't get proper oxygen flow so I need to pump that spot with my finger and breathe (sort of like that sneaker) and I'm liable to just spurt out incoherent shit.

Your posts are incoherent now.
#167 Posted by whipassmt (14981 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] WTF happened to you?LJS9502_basic

What do you mean?

I think it dates back to that time some cop beat me (he claims he was swinging at a bee), he hit me with the handle of his nightstick, right in the head, and now I don't get proper oxygen flow so I need to pump that spot with my finger and breathe (sort of like that sneaker) and I'm liable to just spurt out incoherent shit.

Your posts are incoherent now.

'cause of that cop and his anti-africanized attack bee.

#168 Posted by GOGOGOGURT (4470 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] no need for the name calling, don't shock the air. Be chill me brudda.

whipassmt

WTF happened to you?

What do you mean?

I think it dates back to that time some cop beat me (he claims he was swinging at a bee), he hit me with the handle of his nightstick, right in the head, and now I don't get proper oxygen flow so I need to pump that spot with my finger and breathe (sort of like that sneaker) and I'm liable to just spurt out incoherent shit.

 

My posts are more comprehensive than this.  Never go full retard.

#169 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

I don't know much about MMA, but it seems that this problem could be solved by keeping athletic averages of the fighters. You test the fighters for various abilities relevant to fighting (weight lifting speed, strength, etc.), and test each new fighter as they enter the league to keep the average current, with separate averages for men and women. When a transgender fighter wants to step into the ring, you test them like anyone else. If the fall within the average, there shouldn't be a problem. If an MtF trans fighter (for example) falls well outside the average (above or below) then there can be a discussion about advantage and fairness.Rhazakna

Interesting idea. Might be difficult to implement, but worth consideration.

#170 Posted by Bucked20 (6651 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] What do you mean?

I think it dates back to that time some cop beat me (he claims he was swinging at a bee), he hit me with the handle of his nightstick, right in the head, and now I don't get proper oxygen flow so I need to pump that spot with my finger and breathe (sort of like that sneaker) and I'm liable to just spurt out incoherent shit.

whipassmt

Your posts are incoherent now.

'cause of that cop and his anti-africanized attack bee.

U watchin national security
#171 Posted by whipassmt (14981 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Your posts are incoherent now. Bucked20

'cause of that cop and his anti-africanized attack bee.

U watchin national security

I've been watching it quite a bit since the summer. It's probably been more than a month since I last watched it. Good movie.

Nor' Nor'

Sou' Sou'

Ea' Ea'

We' We'

#172 Posted by sonofsmeagle (4317 posts) -

Well from watching her fights she shows the same sort of brutish looking strength that Cyborg has and she herself was caught for major doping.

So i'd have to pass on the idea of her fighting other females athletes, 

#173 Posted by The-Apostle (12193 posts) -
She looks like a MAAAN! /Austin Powers >_>
#174 Posted by Nonstop-Madness (9503 posts) -
It's a tough question. Men do have physical advantages that may not disappear after hormone treatment (at least after puberty) but I really don't see a solution for this issue.
#175 Posted by hippiesanta (10012 posts) -
Transgender are to compte according of how they were born....... or not to compete at all because of their mentally instable
#176 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (4889 posts) -

Athletics should be divided by sex not gender. Gender is a social construct while sex is based entirely on the genetic code you were given at conception. ferrari2001
the problem I see with that is that females who become males are using alot of drugs to boost their testosterone, which will give them an advantage.

might be true of m -> f but I don't know.

#177 Posted by SpartanMSU (3440 posts) -

I see people saying that gender is just a "social construct". If this is completely true (I believe it partly is), then how can you have a chemical inbalance in your brain of a social construct. The two completely contradict each other. If the first statement is true, then you couldn't internally feel like a female/male all your life.

#178 Posted by cain006 (8625 posts) -

I see people saying that gender is just a "social construct". If this is completely true (I believe it partly is), then how can you have a chemical inbalance in your brain of a social construct. The two completely contradict each other. If the first statement is true, then you couldn't internally feel like a female/male all your life.

SpartanMSU

She said something like gender expression vs gender identity. Makes sense to me that gender expression is a social thing.

#179 Posted by sonicare (53740 posts) -

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="Slow_Show"]

But there are also huge physiological variances within the sexes. If you're going to prevent Fox from competing as a female due to relatively nit-picky issues like bone structure, why allow a "true" XX woman with an abnormally long reach to fight? Or someone who is too flexible? Too quick? Has significantly higher natural levels of testosterone? Sex is ultimately a pretty arbitrary distinction when it comes to trying to make a fair fight. 

Aljosa23

If that's the case, then why not let men and women simply compete in every sport together? Why have separate leagues?

Well IIRC women can compete in male leagues...if they're good enough. The other way around would make no sense since no professional male athlete would want to play in a women's league.

No professional male might, but there may be plenty of subpar males that might. WNBA could have lots of men playing in it.
#180 Posted by no-scope-AK47 (3054 posts) -

If you had a sex change you should be banned from pro sports period. No way no how should a man chop his cock off and claim their a "woman" and then go beat up real woman. Do the real woman now need to juice fighting when fighting a man with a rack??

#181 Posted by IdioticIcarus (2167 posts) -

 

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

I see people saying that gender is just a "social construct". If this is completely true (I believe it partly is), then how can you have a chemical inbalance in your brain of a social construct. The two completely contradict each other. If the first statement is true, then you couldn't internally feel like a female/male all your life.

cain006

She said something like gender expression vs gender identity. Makes sense to me that gender expression is a social thing.

This is what the Genderbread Person has told me, at least:

genderbread.jpg

< This makes sense to me. There seem to be separate camps, though, that believe that gender is either a complete social construct, or a complete biological construct. Honestly, the more I read about it, the more confused I get.
#182 Posted by lamprey263 (26457 posts) -
there's also the idea that some transgendered people get hormone treatments I wonder how that will effect physical competition
#183 Posted by Lonelynight (30041 posts) -
no
#184 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -

 [QUOTE="cain006"]

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

I see people saying that gender is just a "social construct". If this is completely true (I believe it partly is), then how can you have a chemical inbalance in your brain of a social construct. The two completely contradict each other. If the first statement is true, then you couldn't internally feel like a female/male all your life.

IdioticIcarus

She said something like gender expression vs gender identity. Makes sense to me that gender expression is a social thing.

This is what the Genderbread Person has told me, at least:

*img* This makes sense to me. There seem to be separate camps, though, that believe that gender is either a complete social construct, or a complete biological construct. Honestly, the more I read about it, the more confused I get.

This version is way more accurate: gender4.jpg

#185 Posted by Slashless (9515 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] What do you mean?

I think it dates back to that time some cop beat me (he claims he was swinging at a bee), he hit me with the handle of his nightstick, right in the head, and now I don't get proper oxygen flow so I need to pump that spot with my finger and breathe (sort of like that sneaker) and I'm liable to just spurt out incoherent shit.

whipassmt

Your posts are incoherent now.

'cause of that cop and his anti-africanized attack bee.

i heeyah dat mah negr0
#186 Posted by IdioticIcarus (2167 posts) -

[QUOTE="IdioticIcarus"]This is what the Genderbread Person has told me, at least:

*img* This makes sense to me. There seem to be separate camps, though, that believe that gender is either a complete social construct, or a complete biological construct. Honestly, the more I read about it, the more confused I get.ghoklebutter

This version is way more accurate: *more accurate image*

Yeah, I just chose the first version because it explained the difference between gender identity and gender expression in words I understood (while, yes, leaving out a lot of possibilities). There is an updated, more accurate version on the website it came from, I was just concentrating on trying to understand the gender part.

#187 Posted by Meinhard1 (6789 posts) -
Well first two posts in this thread pretty much close the issue for me.
#188 Posted by CKYguy25 (2087 posts) -

they should still be treated equally