How not to react when your child tells you he's gay.

#151 Posted by dave123321 (34152 posts) -

And god doesn't get a pass for fucked up views about homosexuality because he's god

#152 Posted by Jacanuk (4770 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

I wonder if the people defending the parents would do so if they were atheists and were disowning their child for either converting to Christianity or dating a Christian.

Who who am I kidding, of course they wont.

Yes, i would defend the parents because again they have the right to be respected.

Its a myth that parents have to love their kids unconditionally particular when most agree that kids don't have to love their parents.

I would defend the kid also to do what they want. As long as they dont abuse or hurt others they deserve respect.

#153 Edited by Jacanuk (4770 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@Jacanuk said:

@toast_burner said:

Who's disregarding them because they're religious? People would still be taking the kids side even if the parents were atheist. The problem isn't that it's a religious belief, but that it's a homophobic belief. Stop trying to drag religion into this.

Again why does it matter if they are abusing their child because they are religious or not? Shouldn't all that matter is that they were abusing their child?

Nobody is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to be homophobic. If the parents want to hate gays they can. But we are also free to hate the parents for being self centred evil bastards if we want to. That's what a two way street is. What you're saying is completely one sided, you want religious people to show no respect to anyone else, but everyone must respect them.

Well, you clearly are disregarding them and their religion and now you also go so far as calling them homophobic which obviously isn't the case, since they love their kid and have taken good care of him for the first 20 years of his life. They even say it in the video and again all they are asking is for him to respect that they cannot accept him in their house if he wants to openly live as gay and have everyone know it.

And again they are not abusing their kid, he is a 20 year old man who antagonizes his parents by pushing all the right buttons, so i don't know where you get the abuse from, and no not accepting a kids lifechoice is not abuse.

LAstly this is not about being homophobic, this is about accepting that some people might actually believe that the bible is not a Take or leave it table and live by its word as being from their god. Which you and others seem to be disregarding.

How is calling your son a pile of sticks and then kicking him out on to the streets because he was gay, not homophobic?

Again how did he antagonize them? all he did was say that he didn't choose to be gay and shared his believe that he values science above the bible. If respect is a two way street like you claim, shouldn't they have respected his believes?

Would you be defending the parents if they were atheists and were disowning their child for either converting to Christianity or dating a Christian?

Its a heated argument, did you even listen to what the kid say? i mean i agree that pile of sticks or the violence is never ok, but he wanted this confrontation. And again they are not kicking him out no matter what , they are kicking him out if he wants to have them accept an openly gay lifestyle, thats not being homophobic, in fact i think its very reasonable that a 20 year old man who shouldn't even be living at home at this point, gets to feel that Parents house, parents rules.

And the young man/kid is antagonizing them by pushing all the right buttons, calling their whole belief into question and ridiculing it.

But i think you seem to missing that the video is not about the parents being told he is gay and then he is kicked out, they already know that and have known for quite some time. The issue is that he demands that its out in the open and that they despite their religion accept that. Which is very arrogant, after all he is over 18 and is his own man and could just go live somewhere else.

#154 Edited by dave123321 (34152 posts) -

@Jacanuk: loving unconditionally is stupid, but that doesn't mean that we should accept it when parents allow their fucked up ideas to alter thier relationship with their kid

#155 Posted by dave123321 (34152 posts) -

@Jacanuk: thier views on homosexuality are not really all that defendable. They can have them but that doesn't mean they should be respected.

Should we respect it when a racist parent has issues with their kid dating the wrong skin color?

#156 Posted by Xeno_ghost (683 posts) -

@Serraph105: "They were already yelling at each other, "stepping forward" does not justify getting up and hitting your child."

Yes voices were raised but no one was actually shouting aggressively at the top of their lungs(watch the video again)but then the son stepped forward and shouted at his mother at the top of his lungs when tensions were already heightened that's when she lost her shit, you try that with your mother see how far that gets you,

#157 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7807 posts) -

How can anyone defend the action of these parents, its abhorrent.

#158 Edited by Xeno_ghost (683 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan: I'm not defending the parents I'm just stating when things escalated, the parents views are obviously wrong but everyone handled the situation quite badly including the son.

#159 Posted by Chickity_China (2322 posts) -

I am a Christian and I want to add that the behavior the family displayed is very non-Christian. We are all sinners, and God hates all sin equally. Yet Christ's sacrifice has separated our sin from us so that God does not hate us despite the sins and crimes we commit. He forgives us and asks us to love and forgive each other.

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matthew 6:14-15

Now, I don't approve of being gay, but I have no right to judge anyone for their choices because I myself am a sinner. It is God's role to judge in the end, as Christians, we can only forgive and love. That is obeying the word of God.

#160 Edited by HailtotheQueen (265 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@BranKetra said:
@toast_burner said:

what's hypocritical is thinking a religious belief automatically deserves respect.

I consider the American stance that all religious beliefs should be respected as acceptable, though I do not agree with all of them. My acceptance of this stance is because it prevents religious persecution. Rather than it be persecution of one group or the other -religious or not- I prefer the alternative of agreeing to disagree. Civility is paramount to a functioning society even if it is not unified in all aspects.

Do you think that is fair?

Absolutely not. There is a difference between respecting beliefs and just sitting by and watching them do harm to other people.

When religious people think that they have a right to discriminate against others, then we have a problem. That religious freedom you have ends where the next person's rights begin. You have no right to discriminate in this country, regardless of what your religion says. ;O)

Want to know what I think is fair? I think its fair for people to do and believe whatever they want and long as it stays in their own life and as long as it doesn't affect other people's freedom or cause any harm to anyone else. Once you cross that line then a civilized society has a duty to call you out on it. Now with the case of these parents, their beliefs have resulted in them causing harm (emotional) to one of their own kids, which I find disgusting and I will call them out on that type of behavior. And i will do the same to anyone who supports disowning your own freaking kid and treating him like garbage just because he didn't turn out the way you want. A parent should have unconditional love for their kids and the fact that these people have allowed their religion to twist their minds in such a way that they would do something like this is pathetic to me.

I asked if the former is fair. Please reread my comment you quoted for clarification. I interpreted your message as you misunderstanding what I said. Correct me if I am wrong.

Tell me something, when some christian parents have a severely sick child and then he or she ends up dying because they decide to pray instead of taking the kid to the doctor, should we respect that?

I would like to know if that ever occurred recently. Also, I am interested to know if that would be considered a matter of faith or delusion by you.

Well, for one thing, you seem to be confused about the American stance on the issue. It isn't about respecting beliefs, its about not putting one religion over another and allowing people to practice their beliefs as they wish, as long as no one gets hurt. The Constitution says nothing about respecting people's religious beliefs, it just says we can't infringe on their right to practice those beliefs. Also, not allowing religious people to discriminate against others is NOT the same as persecuting them. I get tired of seeing religious people hide behind their religion by making that ridiculous claim. The only thing in the previous post I agree with somewhat is your comment about civility. Hey, I'm pretty civil as long as the other person is as well and as long as they aren't being completely batshit insane. If someone starts rambling about some crazy nonsense like a Westboro Baptist Church member, then I may get somewhat irritated.

Yes, Christian parents killing their kids by not taking them to the doctor actually happens frequently.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/08/11/deadly-cases-parents-chose-faith-over-medicine

Here is case where the family lost one kid by praying instead of taking him to the doctor and then they lost a SECOND kid by doing the same thing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/23/herbert-catherine-schaible_n_3138001.html

And we didn't have enough sense to take away their other kids after the first one died, which is insane to me.

And what is more amazing is that we don't even throw the parents in prison in many cases because they are protected by this religious nonsense. If you are responsible for your kid's death then you should go to prison, period. You shouldn't have a "get out of jail free" card based on religion.

And then we have the Christian parents who severely beat and abuse their kids because the bible tells them to do so. Such as this disgusting case from last year, in which the child actually died.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/11/05/christian-parents-receive-massive-sentence-for-the-starving-and-freezing-death-of-their-adopted-daughter/

I have no problems with religion as long as it doesn't have a negative effect on anyone else but that is where we have the problem. Religious fundamentalists are not just a danger to other people, they are often a threat to the well-being of their own kids. A lot of these people are clearly mentally-ill.

#161 Edited by toast_burner (21791 posts) -

@Chickity_China said:

I am a Christian and I want to add that the behavior the family displayed is very non-Christian. We are all sinners, and God hates all sin equally. Yet Christ's sacrifice has separated our sin from us so that God does not hate us despite the sins and crimes we commit. He forgives us and asks us to love and forgive each other.

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matthew 6:14-15

Now, I don't approve of being gay, but I have no right to judge anyone for their choices because I myself am a sinner. It is God's role to judge in the end, as Christians, we can only forgive and love. That is obeying the word of God.

Slightly off topic but why do so many Christians say being gay is a choice? Not once in the bible does it say that and it goes against all evidence and common sense to think it.

Just seems like such an odd thing to say.

#162 Posted by HailtotheQueen (265 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@Jacanuk said:

@toast_burner said:

@alim298 said:

That kid brought this on himself. You don't just insult other people's belief by saying that I don't give a crap about the word of God and that a psychologist knows better (Btw psychology is a really subjective science. It's not math) . He didn't stop there though. He continued by saying that his parents did a shitty job in raising him and that giving him food or shelter isn't raising. FUCK THAT DUDE. Why does he think his parents gave him shelter and food? Why did they give birth to him? Did they hope that one day he is going to grow up and go to work and pay them for their food and shelter? No they raised him out of mercy and kindness. That's a lot more than any stranger would do for you. But I guess this is a subject that you people who lived with no worries but missing the bus in the morning don't understand. Were it my own son I would disinherit him damn him and forsake him forever until he apologizes.

While this wus is raising 80,000 dollars because someone punched him in the face people are being butchered by ISIS and boko haram. Massive collateral damage is acceptable because it's not happening to you, it's happening to some Arabs. Mass slaughters, starvation, sickness. The humanity is in it's most depraved state. When I heard hadith that the Messiah will come in a time when people are harsh and injustice has filled the face of this earth I laughed and said how can this hadith be true? How can God know that his servants are going to turn into such cruel beings and never do anything about it? But now I understand. God has already shown the right path.The signs are everywhere. No apology accepted. What should be done is known to everyone and no one acts upon it. But let some folks enjoy their gay activism, feminism, socialism, capitalism, separatism, atheism, etc. Let them feel good about themselves. Let them think they're bringing something new to the table. Something that hasn't been done before. Let them think they are a revolutionary race, these "modern" human beings. Let them claim to be what they're not: humans. Let them love the smell of their own farts.

You really are a sad pathetic person. Because you don't like gays that means it's ok for parents to abuse their children? Because there is worse stuff happening else where that means we shouldn't talk about the issues happening closer to home?

Wow you are really something. You call others sad and pathetic.

First of all these parents haven´t abused their kid, they have fed and clearly given him a loving home for 20 years and made him strong enough so that he can think this confrontation up and even record it to get support all because he decides that he is gay. Even when they knew from early on that he swung that way.

Also if you in your clearly liberal mindset actually tried to hear what was being said, the family said that if he demanded that they openly accepted that he was gay, he would have to leave since it was against their religious beliefs. And i find it just insane that anyone would say "hey fuck that , they need to accept their son no matter what" that's ridiculous, because religious people are also human beings that have every right to demand the same respect as anyone else.

So please go on being a hypocrite.

Yes, I'm sure it was a very loving home considering the fact that the woman admitted she cares more about what other people think of her than supporting her own son. LOL I can only imagine what it must have been like growing up in a house like that. From my point of view, conservatives often make horrible parents because they refuse to except certain things about their kids. If their kid becomes an atheist, they often disown them. If they are white and marry a black person, they often disown them. If they turn out to be gay, they often disown them. Now tell me, how often do you hear about atheists disowning their kid for becoming a christian? And you guys like to say gay people aren't fit to be parents but have you ever heard of a gay couple disowning their kid for being straight? LOL No, its just these backwards-thinking religious fundie conservatives like this guy's parents who put their own beliefs above loving their kids.

What a very judgemental and narrow minded person you seem to be, so conservative values are bad and they often make bad parents. what do you base that on? because some might have religious beliefs that they uphold and don't just walk all over like its nothing.

Also the worst parents i have met were actually liberal parents, their kids are often rude, not very clean, and often dont respect grownups or any boundaries because their parents forget to give them any and learn that there are consequences, not to mention that as a gamer i think you have seen how bad gaming communities can get and most is because a more liberal mindset has worked their way into schools and a lot of parents and how they raise their kids.

And again how can anyone call these parents bad, as the dad said he have worked 20 years to pay for this kid, and now he comes into their home and disrespect his mom and steps all over them, because they demand that he respect their wishes. While at the same time acting like a little baby and demanding that they have to accept him openly as gay.

"because some might have religious beliefs that they uphold and don't just walk all over like its nothing."

No because people like this will put those beliefs above loving their own damned kids. Tell me, when was the last time you read about liberal parents disowning their kids? When was the last time you heard about liberal parents praying for their kids instead of taking them to the doctor, which resulted in the kid dying? When the last time you read about liberal parents severely beating and abusing their kids because some book told them to do it? When was the last time you read about liberal parents teaching their kids to hate or discriminate groups of people based on things like race, gender or sexual orientation?

Respect grownups? Sorry but respect goes both ways. In the case of these parents, they showed no respect at all for their son so he shouldn't have shown them any respect either. Not all adults deserve respect.

#163 Posted by Chickity_China (2322 posts) -

@toast_burner: Well choice may be used for lack of a better word. To be honest I don't know what it is. What I know is that all sin is technically a "choice" we make yet God knows perfectly well that it is impossible for any human to live a sin-free life. It may sound contradictory but I'm probably not the best one to give an explanation.

#164 Posted by toast_burner (21791 posts) -

@Chickity_China said:

@toast_burner: Well choice may be used for lack of a better word. To be honest I don't know what it is. What I know is that all sin is technically a "choice" we make yet God knows perfectly well that it is impossible for any human to live a sin-free life. It may sound contradictory but I'm probably not the best one to give an explanation.

Well to have homosexual sex is a choice, but to be homosexual isn't. That does then raise the question that why does god make people gay if he doesn't want them to have gay sex, but I doubt anyone could answer that.

#165 Posted by Xeno_ghost (683 posts) -

@toast_burner: "Are you really saying that adding "god said so" into an argument means that nobody should be allowed to criticise it?"

Well considering I never said that, the answer to that question is no.

"Disagreeing with someone is not the same as disrespecting them."

Yeh as long as you disagree respectfully and without being a smart ass.

#166 Posted by BranKetra (48785 posts) -

@hailtothequeen said:

@BranKetra said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@BranKetra said:
@toast_burner said:

what's hypocritical is thinking a religious belief automatically deserves respect.

I consider the American stance that all religious beliefs should be respected as acceptable, though I do not agree with all of them. My acceptance of this stance is because it prevents religious persecution. Rather than it be persecution of one group or the other -religious or not- I prefer the alternative of agreeing to disagree. Civility is paramount to a functioning society even if it is not unified in all aspects.

Do you think that is fair?

Absolutely not. There is a difference between respecting beliefs and just sitting by and watching them do harm to other people.

When religious people think that they have a right to discriminate against others, then we have a problem. That religious freedom you have ends where the next person's rights begin. You have no right to discriminate in this country, regardless of what your religion says. ;O)

Want to know what I think is fair? I think its fair for people to do and believe whatever they want and long as it stays in their own life and as long as it doesn't affect other people's freedom or cause any harm to anyone else. Once you cross that line then a civilized society has a duty to call you out on it. Now with the case of these parents, their beliefs have resulted in them causing harm (emotional) to one of their own kids, which I find disgusting and I will call them out on that type of behavior. And i will do the same to anyone who supports disowning your own freaking kid and treating him like garbage just because he didn't turn out the way you want. A parent should have unconditional love for their kids and the fact that these people have allowed their religion to twist their minds in such a way that they would do something like this is pathetic to me.

I asked if the former is fair. Please reread my comment you quoted for clarification. I interpreted your message as you misunderstanding what I said. Correct me if I am wrong.

Tell me something, when some christian parents have a severely sick child and then he or she ends up dying because they decide to pray instead of taking the kid to the doctor, should we respect that?

I would like to know if that ever occurred recently. Also, I am interested to know if that would be considered a matter of faith or delusion by you.

Well, for one thing, you seem to be confused about the American stance on the issue. It isn't about respecting beliefs, its about not putting one religion over another and allowing people to practice their beliefs as they wish, as long as no one gets hurt. The Constitution says nothing about respecting people's religious beliefs, it just says we can't infringe on their right to practice those beliefs. Also, not allowing religious people to discriminate against others is NOT the same as persecuting them. I get tired of seeing religious people hide behind their religion by making that ridiculous claim. The only thing in the previous post I agree with somewhat is your comment about civility. Hey, I'm pretty civil as long as the other person is as well and as long as they aren't being completely batshit insane. If someone starts rambling about some crazy nonsense like a Westboro Baptist Church member, then I may get somewhat irritated.

Yes, Christian parents killing their kids by not taking them to the doctor actually happens frequently.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/08/11/deadly-cases-parents-chose-faith-over-medicine

Here is case where the family lost one kid by praying instead of taking him to the doctor and then they lost a SECOND kid by doing the same thing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/23/herbert-catherine-schaible_n_3138001.html

And we didn't have enough sense to take away their other kids after the first one died, which is insane to me.

And what is more amazing is that we don't even throw the parents in prison in many cases because they are protected by this religious nonsense. If you are responsible for your kid's death then you should go to prison, period. You shouldn't have a "get out of jail free" card based on religion.

And then we have the Christian parents who severely beat and abuse their kids because the bible tells them to do so. Such as this disgusting case from last year, in which the child actually died.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/11/05/christian-parents-receive-massive-sentence-for-the-starving-and-freezing-death-of-their-adopted-daughter/

I have no problems with religion as long as it doesn't have a negative effect on anyone else but that is where we have the problem. Religious fundamentalists are not just a danger to other people, they are often a threat to the well-being of their own kids. A lot of these people are clearly mentally-ill.

From Oxford:

respect

Syllabification: re·spect

Pronunciation: /rəˈspekt /

noun

1.2Due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others:

respect for human rights

----

That is the way I am using the word respect.

infringe

Syllabification: in·fringe

Pronunciation: /inˈfrinj /

verb (infringes, infringing, infringed)

[with object]1.1Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on:

his legal rights were being infringed [no object]: I wouldn’t infringe on his privacy

1Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.):

making an unauthorized copy would infringe copyright

In this sense, not infringing on another person's rights is the same as respecting them.

Moving forward, there are limits to how acceptable religious beliefs are as we can see in the situations you provided URLs for. I recommend you be very careful in what words you use to describe others. Calling someone mentally ill for believing in things that have been a part of civilization for thousands of years is definitely not the correct approach to this. When making an argument, credibility is the most important aspect of a side and I do not consider what you said there to be. I will say if they truly are mentally ill, they should be in a mental hospital instead of prison. The mistake they seem to have made was too much faith in their own beliefs and not enough in what His son instructed.

"And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's."

Luke 20:25

In this context, "Caesar" is modern government and its expectation to prevent neglect when medical treatment is possible is "which be Caesar's" and "God" should have been prayer to Him that modern medical treatments would have worked.

Needless to say, religious liberty is a complicated idea which is why I think more people need to be thoroughly educated in science along with any Christian upbringing they are given.

#167 Posted by Chickity_China (2322 posts) -

@toast_burner: It may seem a little screwed up but it's the same reason why God lets disasters happen and babies being born with defects. One day He will wipe out all sin and paradise will be restored. But until then, it is the job of those who call themselves His followers to help the rest of the world out. Christians need to be more proactive in giving aid to the homeless, helping poor countries deal with crises, and helping heal the sick.

#168 Posted by toast_burner (21791 posts) -

@Chickity_China said:

@toast_burner: It may seem a little screwed up but it's the same reason why God lets disasters happen and babies being born with defects. One day He will wipe out all sin and paradise will be restored. But until then, it is the job of those who call themselves His followers to help the rest of the world out. Christians need to be more proactive in giving aid to the homeless, helping poor countries deal with crises, and helping heal the sick.

By wipe out sin do you mean sinners? Seems odd to create a person just so he can kill them and send them to hell.

#169 Edited by BranKetra (48785 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@Chickity_China said:

@toast_burner: It may seem a little screwed up but it's the same reason why God lets disasters happen and babies being born with defects. One day He will wipe out all sin and paradise will be restored. But until then, it is the job of those who call themselves His followers to help the rest of the world out. Christians need to be more proactive in giving aid to the homeless, helping poor countries deal with crises, and helping heal the sick.

By wipe out sin do you mean sinners? Seems odd to create a person just so he can kill them and send them to hell.

A living being is not sin.

#170 Edited by toast_burner (21791 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

@toast_burner said:

@Chickity_China said:

@toast_burner: It may seem a little screwed up but it's the same reason why God lets disasters happen and babies being born with defects. One day He will wipe out all sin and paradise will be restored. But until then, it is the job of those who call themselves His followers to help the rest of the world out. Christians need to be more proactive in giving aid to the homeless, helping poor countries deal with crises, and helping heal the sick.

By wipe out sin do you mean sinners? Seems odd to create a person just so he can kill them and send them to hell.

A living being is not sin.

Sin can't exist without sinners. So when sin gets wiped out, what happens to all the sinners? Are they forgiven?

#171 Edited by dave123321 (34152 posts) -

Still don't see why god gets a pass for having bad hurtful views

#172 Posted by MBirdy88 (8336 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@BranKetra said:

@toast_burner said:

@Chickity_China said:

@toast_burner: It may seem a little screwed up but it's the same reason why God lets disasters happen and babies being born with defects. One day He will wipe out all sin and paradise will be restored. But until then, it is the job of those who call themselves His followers to help the rest of the world out. Christians need to be more proactive in giving aid to the homeless, helping poor countries deal with crises, and helping heal the sick.

By wipe out sin do you mean sinners? Seems odd to create a person just so he can kill them and send them to hell.

A living being is not sin.

Sin can't exist without sinners. So when sin gets wiped out, what happens to all the sinners? Are they forgiven?

@dave123321 said:

Still don't see why god gets a pass for having bad hurtful views

Lets be realistic here... asking these questions are pointless for 2 reasons:

1) These people don't know the answer themselves... and will likely make up any bulls*it interpretation or something they have heard/read by Christian fanboys.... who in turn have no evidence either.

2) The religion was created only 2000 years ago .... in a very dark age compared to today. if we listened to the so called "set in stone teachings" then woman would not be able to teach, or nurse, or do any important jobs. they have to confront their husbands because "their husbands word is that of gods" paraphrasing of course. slavery would be ok ect.

Its easy to ignore some parts of these ancient stories.... but at the same time.... humans hiding behind their religion to mask their ignorance and what boils down too "ewww gays are yucky".

#173 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7807 posts) -

@xeno_ghost said:

@HoolaHoopMan: I'm not defending the parents I'm just stating when things escalated, the parents views are obviously wrong but everyone handled the situation quite badly including the son.

What should the son have done instead?

#174 Posted by GreySeal9 (24513 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

but at the same time.... humans hiding behind their religion to mask their ignorance and what boils down too "ewww gays are yucky".

Yeah, I think this is often (not always, but often) the case.

#175 Posted by BranKetra (48785 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@BranKetra said:

@toast_burner said:

@Chickity_China said:

@toast_burner: It may seem a little screwed up but it's the same reason why God lets disasters happen and babies being born with defects. One day He will wipe out all sin and paradise will be restored. But until then, it is the job of those who call themselves His followers to help the rest of the world out. Christians need to be more proactive in giving aid to the homeless, helping poor countries deal with crises, and helping heal the sick.

By wipe out sin do you mean sinners? Seems odd to create a person just so he can kill them and send them to hell.

A living being is not sin.

Sin can't exist without sinners. So when sin gets wiped out, what happens to all the sinners? Are they forgiven?

Read the bible and learn for yourself whether or not your logic in this matter is accurate. I will go ahead and tell you the linkage you are asserted is inaccurate, but it is good to verify yourself.

#176 Edited by Chickity_China (2322 posts) -

@toast_burner: He does not wipe out all sinners because we are all sinners. Those who believe in Christ and have chosen to pursue Him by living their lives filled with love for others will be saved. Those who do not believe in Him will be condemned. Once He restores paradise essentially our human nature will be changed so that we no longer feel the urge to sin.

#177 Posted by torenojohn7 (315 posts) -

@Chickity_China: Damn that's so logical&fair!

#178 Posted by Chickity_China (2322 posts) -

@MBirdy88: God doesn't have hurtful views. He loves everyone. But if you don't believe in Him you can't be in His presence in eternity which hurts Him too. He wants to be in fellowship with everyone because he loves everyone. No where does it say sinners cannot enter heaven. Don't be led astray by the hurtful views of other Christians because they do not reflect God's will.

Also, the Bible was written by humans so there are many human cultural influences in it. Just because slavery and polygamy and what not were okay back then doesn't mean God approved of it. This is not to say practice whatever sounds good to you and forget the rest, but with experience and deeper communication with God one can understand better what His will is and what His will is not.

It's actually pretty simple, God's will is exemplified most when you love your fellow brothers and sisters.

#179 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7807 posts) -

@Chickity_China said:

@toast_burner: He does not wipe out all sinners because we are all sinners. Those who believe in Christ and have chosen to pursue Him by living their lives filled with love for others will be saved. Those who do not believe in Him will be condemned. Once He restores paradise essentially our human nature will be changed so that we no longer feel the urge to sin.

God sounds like an asshole.

#180 Posted by Xeno_ghost (683 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan:

"What should the son have done instead?"

Why are you just focused on the son, I said both sides could have handled the situation better, the question you should be asking is, how could both sides of handled the situation better? And still if you can't answer that question for yourself...,,,,

#181 Posted by Nengo_Flow (9861 posts) -

Look at the pain he cause his family becuz he wanted to be selfish and act like he's right and they are all wrong.

#182 Posted by MBirdy88 (8336 posts) -

@Chickity_China said:

@MBirdy88: God doesn't have hurtful views. He loves everyone. But if you don't believe in Him you can't be in His presence in eternity which hurts Him too. He wants to be in fellowship with everyone because he loves everyone. No where does it say sinners cannot enter heaven. Don't be led astray by the hurtful views of other Christians because they do not reflect God's will.

Also, the Bible was written by humans so there are many human cultural influences in it. Just because slavery and polygamy and what not were okay back then doesn't mean God approved of it. This is not to say practice whatever sounds good to you and forget the rest, but with experience and deeper communication with God one can understand better what His will is and what His will is not.

It's actually pretty simple, God's will is exemplified most when you love your fellow brothers and sisters.

Numbering system based on your paragraphics:

1) God Loves everyone.... but cannot physically or in anyone show us hes there.... and if we don't automatically believe he still loves us when for some reason he made this rule that we would go to hell if we did not believe? that's not love my friend..... intenral damnation because you don't automatically believe is far from any form of love.... why is it not possible to just die... then turn up at heaven and this "loving god" goes "You didn;t believe in me my child, but that is ok, I love you and forgive you, join us in heaven" .... you can't see that the whole notiong of HAVING to believe is the fear aspect which makes so many feel they HAVE to believe right?... wether thats a human construct or not.. oh wait it is... because there is no evidence of anything else.

2) How do we know what god says then? its all human made.... all of it. how do you know what to pick and choose? you have no experience or deeper communication with god... those are buzz words.... for what you assume as "I basically understood it better than you, please believe me".

3) A lovely sentiment.... but also a blanket statement. I've seen enough bible quotes that state you MUST to this and that... not optional.... and being an atheist or non believer doesn't come under that category "No matter how much you love your brothers and sisters" ... why? because the people that made it don't benefit you from not being in it directly... same with every other religeon.

I'm not out to attack, I'm showing you my view on it.

#183 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151511 posts) -

Various parents throw kids on the street for lots of issues. Where is the outcry?

#184 Posted by Aljosa23 (25135 posts) -

What a bunch of cunts. Makes me proud to know I have parents that aren't monsters.

#185 Posted by Treflis (11575 posts) -

Probably a good thing he got out of that family.

#186 Posted by Jacanuk (4770 posts) -

@hailtothequeen said:

@Jacanuk said:

What a very judgemental and narrow minded person you seem to be, so conservative values are bad and they often make bad parents. what do you base that on? because some might have religious beliefs that they uphold and don't just walk all over like its nothing.

Also the worst parents i have met were actually liberal parents, their kids are often rude, not very clean, and often dont respect grownups or any boundaries because their parents forget to give them any and learn that there are consequences, not to mention that as a gamer i think you have seen how bad gaming communities can get and most is because a more liberal mindset has worked their way into schools and a lot of parents and how they raise their kids.

And again how can anyone call these parents bad, as the dad said he have worked 20 years to pay for this kid, and now he comes into their home and disrespect his mom and steps all over them, because they demand that he respect their wishes. While at the same time acting like a little baby and demanding that they have to accept him openly as gay.

"because some might have religious beliefs that they uphold and don't just walk all over like its nothing."

No because people like this will put those beliefs above loving their own damned kids. Tell me, when was the last time you read about liberal parents disowning their kids? When was the last time you heard about liberal parents praying for their kids instead of taking them to the doctor, which resulted in the kid dying? When the last time you read about liberal parents severely beating and abusing their kids because some book told them to do it? When was the last time you read about liberal parents teaching their kids to hate or discriminate groups of people based on things like race, gender or sexual orientation?

Respect grownups? Sorry but respect goes both ways. In the case of these parents, they showed no respect at all for their son so he shouldn't have shown them any respect either. Not all adults deserve respect.

Again you come with your judgemental attitude, which is ironic when it comes from a´feminist and SJW like i know you are.

Are you seriously trying to pass it off as something like this only happen in conservative homes? also these parents are not disowning their kid, the kid chooses his gay lifechoice over his parents, its really not that hard. Also of course "liberals" disown their kids, its not restricted to a certain political or social status and even claiming such is just making you look foolish. It might not be because they are gay but hundres of other reasons.

Also what are you talking about? this is a 20year old man who have absolute no claim/right whatsoever on being fed/housed and supported by his parents and he is lucky that he even had a choice, so of course the parents have every right to demand that their beliefs and rules are respected, and no just because he likes his own gender doesnt make him immune to having rules or having to respect his parents.

#187 Posted by Jacanuk (4770 posts) -

@dave123321 said:

@Jacanuk: loving unconditionally is stupid, but that doesn't mean that we should accept it when parents allow their fucked up ideas to alter thier relationship with their kid

@dave123321 said:

@Jacanuk: thier views on homosexuality are not really all that defendable. They can have them but that doesn't mean they should be respected.

Should we respect it when a racist parent has issues with their kid dating the wrong skin color?

We should accept? what do you mean, we dont have any right to even interfere in what these parents and their kid relationship is, you might not agree with the parents but thats your problem. The kid clearly havent been abused or had a bad childhood.

Racist is not the same as having religion and congrats you just managed to insult almost 2+ billion people around the world.

#188 Posted by MBirdy88 (8336 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@Jacanuk said:

What a very judgemental and narrow minded person you seem to be, so conservative values are bad and they often make bad parents. what do you base that on? because some might have religious beliefs that they uphold and don't just walk all over like its nothing.

Also the worst parents i have met were actually liberal parents, their kids are often rude, not very clean, and often dont respect grownups or any boundaries because their parents forget to give them any and learn that there are consequences, not to mention that as a gamer i think you have seen how bad gaming communities can get and most is because a more liberal mindset has worked their way into schools and a lot of parents and how they raise their kids.

And again how can anyone call these parents bad, as the dad said he have worked 20 years to pay for this kid, and now he comes into their home and disrespect his mom and steps all over them, because they demand that he respect their wishes. While at the same time acting like a little baby and demanding that they have to accept him openly as gay.

"because some might have religious beliefs that they uphold and don't just walk all over like its nothing."

No because people like this will put those beliefs above loving their own damned kids. Tell me, when was the last time you read about liberal parents disowning their kids? When was the last time you heard about liberal parents praying for their kids instead of taking them to the doctor, which resulted in the kid dying? When the last time you read about liberal parents severely beating and abusing their kids because some book told them to do it? When was the last time you read about liberal parents teaching their kids to hate or discriminate groups of people based on things like race, gender or sexual orientation?

Respect grownups? Sorry but respect goes both ways. In the case of these parents, they showed no respect at all for their son so he shouldn't have shown them any respect either. Not all adults deserve respect.

Again you come with your judgemental attitude, which is ironic when it comes from a´feminist and SJW like i know you are.

Are you seriously trying to pass it off as something like this only happen in conservative homes? also these parents are not disowning their kid, the kid chooses his gay lifechoice over his parents, its really not that hard. Also of course "liberals" disown their kids, its not restricted to a certain political or social status and even claiming such is just making you look foolish. It might not be because they are gay but hundres of other reasons.

Also what are you talking about? this is a 20year old man who have absolute no claim/right whatsoever on being fed/housed and supported by his parents and he is lucky that he even had a choice, so of course the parents have every right to demand that their beliefs and rules are respected, and no just because he likes his own gender doesnt make him immune to having rules or having to respect his parents.

So wait. what does respect have to do with this? he was kicked out because he was gay, not because of the arguement that came after... they said he had to leave while they were still calm. and insisted that being gay is a choice. when its not.

"He could of waited until he left" ... yes but why? why couldn't they just say "We believe being gay is a sin.... we will let you stay and try to accept you until you change your mind...." ... instead "Get out queer, your a disgrace" and "I have gay friends thats ok, but you being gay isn't " ...

nothing but un-religeon related bigoted family pride.

#189 Posted by toast_burner (21791 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@dave123321 said:

@Jacanuk: loving unconditionally is stupid, but that doesn't mean that we should accept it when parents allow their fucked up ideas to alter thier relationship with their kid

@dave123321 said:

@Jacanuk: thier views on homosexuality are not really all that defendable. They can have them but that doesn't mean they should be respected.

Should we respect it when a racist parent has issues with their kid dating the wrong skin color?

We should accept? what do you mean, we dont have any right to even interfere in what these parents and their kid relationship is, you might not agree with the parents but thats your problem. The kid clearly havent been abused or had a bad childhood.

Racist is not the same as having religion and congrats you just managed to insult almost 2+ billion people around the world.

What if their religion tells them to hate other races?

#190 Posted by Jacanuk (4770 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

@Jacanuk said:

Again you come with your judgemental attitude, which is ironic when it comes from a´feminist and SJW like i know you are.

Are you seriously trying to pass it off as something like this only happen in conservative homes? also these parents are not disowning their kid, the kid chooses his gay lifechoice over his parents, its really not that hard. Also of course "liberals" disown their kids, its not restricted to a certain political or social status and even claiming such is just making you look foolish. It might not be because they are gay but hundres of other reasons.

Also what are you talking about? this is a 20year old man who have absolute no claim/right whatsoever on being fed/housed and supported by his parents and he is lucky that he even had a choice, so of course the parents have every right to demand that their beliefs and rules are respected, and no just because he likes his own gender doesnt make him immune to having rules or having to respect his parents.

So wait. what does respect have to do with this? he was kicked out because he was gay, not because of the arguement that came after... they said he had to leave while they were still calm. and insisted that being gay is a choice. when its not.

"He could of waited until he left" ... yes but why? why couldn't they just say "We believe being gay is a sin.... we will let you stay and try to accept you until you change your mind...." ... instead "Get out queer, your a disgrace" and "I have gay friends thats ok, but you being gay isn't " ...

nothing but un-religeon related bigoted family pride.

I think you have missed something or perhaps you just didn't watch the video. BEcause again no he wasn't kicked out because he was gay, he was kicked out at age 20 because he wanted them to openly accept his gay lifechoice.

And incase you're wondering a 20 year old man is a adult and have no claim/right to demand that his parents support him or house him.

Also being attracted to the same sex might not be a choice, but acting on those impulses is a choice so if he really loved and respected his parents he would know that since they dont actually have to house him and he is lucky that they still wanted to support him he might have to take that part of his sex-life outside the house.

Or do like any other at that age do, grow up and start paying for your own way in life.

In regards to gay being a sin, well it is written in the bible and if these parents are religious they have to kinda follow gods words.

#191 Posted by Jacanuk (4770 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@Jacanuk said:

@dave123321 said:

@Jacanuk: loving unconditionally is stupid, but that doesn't mean that we should accept it when parents allow their fucked up ideas to alter thier relationship with their kid

@dave123321 said:

@Jacanuk: thier views on homosexuality are not really all that defendable. They can have them but that doesn't mean they should be respected.

Should we respect it when a racist parent has issues with their kid dating the wrong skin color?

We should accept? what do you mean, we dont have any right to even interfere in what these parents and their kid relationship is, you might not agree with the parents but thats your problem. The kid clearly havent been abused or had a bad childhood.

Racist is not the same as having religion and congrats you just managed to insult almost 2+ billion people around the world.

What if their religion tells them to hate other races?

But they don't so why imagine something that never will be the case?

Also again these parents don't hate their son, they hate his choice.

#192 Edited by toast_burner (21791 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@toast_burner said:

@Jacanuk said:

@dave123321 said:

@Jacanuk: loving unconditionally is stupid, but that doesn't mean that we should accept it when parents allow their fucked up ideas to alter thier relationship with their kid

@dave123321 said:

@Jacanuk: thier views on homosexuality are not really all that defendable. They can have them but that doesn't mean they should be respected.

Should we respect it when a racist parent has issues with their kid dating the wrong skin color?

We should accept? what do you mean, we dont have any right to even interfere in what these parents and their kid relationship is, you might not agree with the parents but thats your problem. The kid clearly havent been abused or had a bad childhood.

Racist is not the same as having religion and congrats you just managed to insult almost 2+ billion people around the world.

What if their religion tells them to hate other races?

But they don't so why imagine something that never will be the case?

Also again these parents don't hate their son, they hate his choice.

Why not answer the question? If the parents were disowning there so for dating a black person, how is that different to this? Should those racist parents also deserve respect?

And is it only when they do something for religious reasons that they deserve respect?

#193 Edited by MBirdy88 (8336 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@MBirdy88 said:

@Jacanuk said:

Again you come with your judgemental attitude, which is ironic when it comes from a´feminist and SJW like i know you are.

Are you seriously trying to pass it off as something like this only happen in conservative homes? also these parents are not disowning their kid, the kid chooses his gay lifechoice over his parents, its really not that hard. Also of course "liberals" disown their kids, its not restricted to a certain political or social status and even claiming such is just making you look foolish. It might not be because they are gay but hundres of other reasons.

Also what are you talking about? this is a 20year old man who have absolute no claim/right whatsoever on being fed/housed and supported by his parents and he is lucky that he even had a choice, so of course the parents have every right to demand that their beliefs and rules are respected, and no just because he likes his own gender doesnt make him immune to having rules or having to respect his parents.

So wait. what does respect have to do with this? he was kicked out because he was gay, not because of the arguement that came after... they said he had to leave while they were still calm. and insisted that being gay is a choice. when its not.

"He could of waited until he left" ... yes but why? why couldn't they just say "We believe being gay is a sin.... we will let you stay and try to accept you until you change your mind...." ... instead "Get out queer, your a disgrace" and "I have gay friends thats ok, but you being gay isn't " ...

nothing but un-religeon related bigoted family pride.

I think you have missed something or perhaps you just didn't watch the video. BEcause again no he wasn't kicked out because he was gay, he was kicked out at age 20 because he wanted them to openly accept his gay lifechoice.

And incase you're wondering a 20 year old man is a adult and have no claim/right to demand that his parents support him or house him.

Also being attracted to the same sex might not be a choice, but acting on those impulses is a choice so if he really loved and respected his parents he would know that since they dont actually have to house him and he is lucky that they still wanted to support him he might have to take that part of his sex-life outside the house.

Or do like any other at that age do, grow up and start paying for your own way in life.

In regards to gay being a sin, well it is written in the bible and if these parents are religious they have to kinda follow gods words.

You keep avoiding the most important part when its brought up.

How is being gay a "life choice". "an important decision which you make about your life, for example where you choose to live, what kind of job you do, whether you get married, or have children etc"

Sorry, but being gay is not a choice. its a biological reaction to the same sex that causes arousal and sexual stimulation... just like you are repulsed by other men (and so am I... i mean sexually ofcourse).

And tell me, what the exact rule is in the bible? is it that "A man will not lie with another man?" line? or something more substantial? and tell me, what it says your meant to do? does it say "you must abandon this person otherwise you are helping sinners and shall go to hell, the place that was made up decades later?"

#194 Posted by Jacanuk (4770 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@Jacanuk said:

@toast_burner said:

What if their religion tells them to hate other races?

But they don't so why imagine something that never will be the case?

Also again these parents don't hate their son, they hate his choice.

Why not answer the question? If the parents were disowning there so for dating a black person, how is that different to this? Should those racist parents also deserve respect?

And is it only when they do something for religious reasons that they deserve respect?

Why would i answer a hypothetical situation? there is no grounds or racisme in most major religions.

And again they are not disowning this kid for being gay, they are throwing him out and disowning him because he demands their acceptance of a openly gay lifechoice.

Also having belief and trusting there is a god is not even close to the same has having some illogical and irrational hate of other races.

#195 Edited by toast_burner (21791 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@toast_burner said:

@Jacanuk said:

@toast_burner said:

What if their religion tells them to hate other races?

But they don't so why imagine something that never will be the case?

Also again these parents don't hate their son, they hate his choice.

Why not answer the question? If the parents were disowning there so for dating a black person, how is that different to this? Should those racist parents also deserve respect?

And is it only when they do something for religious reasons that they deserve respect?

Why would i answer a hypothetical situation? there is no grounds or racisme in most major religions.

And again they are not disowning this kid for being gay, they are throwing him out and disowning him because he demands their acceptance of a openly gay lifechoice.

Also having belief and trusting there is a god is not even close to the same has having some illogical and irrational hate of other races.

There are religions that do say people of other races are inferior and that races shouldn't mix. Christianity was one of the leading reasons for banning interracial marriage in the USA.

So why is it ok to be homophobic if you're doing it for religious reasons? Does that also apply to racism and sexism? Is it bad to be homophobic if you're not religious?

#196 Edited by Jacanuk (4770 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

@Jacanuk said:

I think you have missed something or perhaps you just didn't watch the video. BEcause again no he wasn't kicked out because he was gay, he was kicked out at age 20 because he wanted them to openly accept his gay lifechoice.

And incase you're wondering a 20 year old man is a adult and have no claim/right to demand that his parents support him or house him.

Also being attracted to the same sex might not be a choice, but acting on those impulses is a choice so if he really loved and respected his parents he would know that since they dont actually have to house him and he is lucky that they still wanted to support him he might have to take that part of his sex-life outside the house.

Or do like any other at that age do, grow up and start paying for your own way in life.

In regards to gay being a sin, well it is written in the bible and if these parents are religious they have to kinda follow gods words.

You keep avoiding the most important part when its brought up.

How is being gay a "life choice". "an important decision which you make about your life, for example where you choose to live, what kind of job you do, whether you get married, or have children etc"

Sorry, but being gay is not a choice. its a biological reaction to the same sex that causes arousal and sexual stimulation... just like you are repulsed by other men (and so am I... i mean sexually ofcourse).

And tell me, what the exact rule is in the bible? is it that "A man will not lie with another man?" line? or something more substantial? and tell me, what it says your meant to do? does it say "you must abandon this person otherwise you are helping sinners and shall go to hell, the place that was made up decades later?"

I don't avoid anything.

As i said, being attracted to your own sex might not be a choice, what i did say though is that acting on those impulses is a choice, you don't suddenly become incapable of controlling your own actions because your prefered gender is your own. You can still decide if you want to act on it.

As they say you might not be able to prevent the eagle from flying around your head, but you sure as a amen in church can prevent it from nesting on your head.

And its leviticus 18 and 20 which clearly says homosexuality is a abomination and a sin.

Not to mention that it goes again in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah where men lies with men and lives in sin and god destroy those remember.

#197 Edited by dave123321 (34152 posts) -

@Jacanuk: so gay people should deny themselves the happiness that they would gain in pursuing a romantic relationship because it is what god dictates?

Why don't you call out shitty views for being shitty views?

Even if they are gods views

#198 Edited by MBirdy88 (8336 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:

@MBirdy88 said:

@Jacanuk said:

I think you have missed something or perhaps you just didn't watch the video. BEcause again no he wasn't kicked out because he was gay, he was kicked out at age 20 because he wanted them to openly accept his gay lifechoice.

And incase you're wondering a 20 year old man is a adult and have no claim/right to demand that his parents support him or house him.

Also being attracted to the same sex might not be a choice, but acting on those impulses is a choice so if he really loved and respected his parents he would know that since they dont actually have to house him and he is lucky that they still wanted to support him he might have to take that part of his sex-life outside the house.

Or do like any other at that age do, grow up and start paying for your own way in life.

In regards to gay being a sin, well it is written in the bible and if these parents are religious they have to kinda follow gods words.

You keep avoiding the most important part when its brought up.

How is being gay a "life choice". "an important decision which you make about your life, for example where you choose to live, what kind of job you do, whether you get married, or have children etc"

Sorry, but being gay is not a choice. its a biological reaction to the same sex that causes arousal and sexual stimulation... just like you are repulsed by other men (and so am I... i mean sexually ofcourse).

And tell me, what the exact rule is in the bible? is it that "A man will not lie with another man?" line? or something more substantial? and tell me, what it says your meant to do? does it say "you must abandon this person otherwise you are helping sinners and shall go to hell, the place that was made up decades later?"

I don't avoid anything.

As i said, being attracted to your own sex might not be a choice, what i did say though is that acting on those impulses is a choice, you don't suddenly become incapable of controlling your own actions because your prefered gender is your own. You can still decide if you want to act on it.

As they say you might not be able to prevent the eagle from flying around your head, but you sure as a amen in church can prevent it from nesting on your head.

And its leviticus 18 and 20 which clearly says homosexuality is a abomination and a sin.

Not to mention that it goes again in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah where men lies with men and lives in sin and god destroy those remember.

Either God is playing a cruel joke on gay people then.... or maybe just maybe its a genetic alteration and is not tied to any of this... either way.... it provides no logical justification as to why it is bad. basically just the people that wrote it saying "Lying with men is icky... therefore god said its an abomination... with no reason as to why he made it so we could feel that way" ... so convenient.

Just like all the important woman in your life are not allowed to learn unless its from their men....

Tell me, if this holds so much weight... then does the following material hold the same weight?:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/7-shocking-bible-verses-you-probably-wont-hear-in-church#1tlck4

The second link also describes how most christians, modern or traditional think on the situations... and it all boils down to "Yea none of us know....." in my head... none of you Christians uphold even 10% of the stuff mentioned in the bible, you cherry pick what sells your religeon best... cave in always when your countries leader's force you to.... the seperation of church and state (hmmm I wonder why the more intellectual members of society opted for that?) .

Yet the gay thing upholds all importance still.... bulls*it.... I admit as an athiest I cringe abit when I see 2 guys kissing... its a reaction I can't shake, I don't hate them, it just doens't do it for me. the only difference between me and the people you are defending is... I have no safety blanket religeon to hide my reactions behind.... and no jsutification to basically say "ewww I dont like what your doing STOP SINNER!" ... I wouldnt if I could even. so much for love and forgiveness.

#199 Edited by LordQuorthon (5350 posts) -

I have a feeling that Jesus will call that guy's monster parents and tell them that homosexuality is OK now that he's got 80K dollars. That's just how christians roll. Awwww.

#200 Posted by Jacanuk (4770 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:
@Jacanuk said:

@MBirdy88 said:

@Jacanuk said:

I think you have missed something or perhaps you just didn't watch the video. BEcause again no he wasn't kicked out because he was gay, he was kicked out at age 20 because he wanted them to openly accept his gay lifechoice.

And incase you're wondering a 20 year old man is a adult and have no claim/right to demand that his parents support him or house him.

Also being attracted to the same sex might not be a choice, but acting on those impulses is a choice so if he really loved and respected his parents he would know that since they dont actually have to house him and he is lucky that they still wanted to support him he might have to take that part of his sex-life outside the house.

Or do like any other at that age do, grow up and start paying for your own way in life.

In regards to gay being a sin, well it is written in the bible and if these parents are religious they have to kinda follow gods words.

You keep avoiding the most important part when its brought up.

How is being gay a "life choice". "an important decision which you make about your life, for example where you choose to live, what kind of job you do, whether you get married, or have children etc"

Sorry, but being gay is not a choice. its a biological reaction to the same sex that causes arousal and sexual stimulation... just like you are repulsed by other men (and so am I... i mean sexually ofcourse).

And tell me, what the exact rule is in the bible? is it that "A man will not lie with another man?" line? or something more substantial? and tell me, what it says your meant to do? does it say "you must abandon this person otherwise you are helping sinners and shall go to hell, the place that was made up decades later?"

I don't avoid anything.

As i said, being attracted to your own sex might not be a choice, what i did say though is that acting on those impulses is a choice, you don't suddenly become incapable of controlling your own actions because your prefered gender is your own. You can still decide if you want to act on it.

As they say you might not be able to prevent the eagle from flying around your head, but you sure as a amen in church can prevent it from nesting on your head.

And its leviticus 18 and 20 which clearly says homosexuality is a abomination and a sin.

Not to mention that it goes again in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah where men lies with men and lives in sin and god destroy those remember.

Either God is playing a cruel joke on gay people then.... or maybe just maybe its a genetic alteration and is not tied to any of this... either way.... it provides no logical justification as to why it is bad. basically just the people that wrote it saying "Lying with men is icky... therefore god said its an abomination... with no reason as to why he made it so we could feel that way" ... so convenient.

Just like all the important woman in your life are not allowed to learn unless its from their men....

Tell me, if this holds so much weight... then does the following material hold the same weight?:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/7-shocking-bible-verses-you-probably-wont-hear-in-church#1tlck4

The second link also describes how most christians, modern or traditional think on the situations... and it all boils down to "Yea none of us know....." in my head... none of you Christians uphold even 10% of the stuff mentioned in the bible, you cherry pick what sells your religeon best... cave in always when your countries leader's force you to.... the seperation of church and state (hmmm I wonder why the more intellectual members of society opted for that?) .

Yet the gay thing upholds all importance still.... bulls*it.... I admit as an athiest I cringe abit when I see 2 guys kissing... its a reaction I can't shake, I don't hate them, it just doens't do it for me. the only difference between me and the people you are defending is... I have no safety blanket religeon to hide my reactions behind.... and no jsutification to basically say "ewww I dont like what your doing STOP SINNER!" ... I wouldnt if I could even. so much for love and forgiveness.

None of you christians? ehh, im an agnostic not christian, just because i have read the bible doesnt mean im christian nor does me reading the Quran into a muslim or reading up on buddhism a buddhist.

Also you seem to miss a lot of what i have said, the issue here isn't about what you, i or anyone find illogical, the key here is that christians seem to be disregarded and just thrown over into a corner when they have some beliefs and act on those like with these parents. People disregard the parents as being homophobic or bigot because they care what others think and want to uphold their own religious beliefs while at the same time demanding that we all respect a persons choice of sexual partners.

That is my problem... its nothing by hypocrisy when its worst and its just unintelligent