Homeland Security Says to Confront Mass Shooters With Scissors.

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#1 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

Quite possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen/read.  US Dept. of Homeland Security put out a video of how to deal with mass shooting situations.  If anyone still needs a reason to know that DHS is not looking out for your best interests, consider this-  They recommend that you arm yourself with scissors and try to "overpower" a mass shooter with them.  

I'm speechless.  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/31/new-homeland-security-video-how-fight-shooters-sci/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM

Anything to keep people from, you know.. actually defending themselves.  

#2 Posted by sonicare (53448 posts) -

Just dont run with them.

#3 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
Taxpayer dollars at work.
#4 Posted by Jackboot343 (2574 posts) -

I defend myself with blubber

#5 Posted by thegerg (14670 posts) -

Quite possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen/read.  US Dept. of Homeland Security put out a video of how to deal with mass shooting situations.  If anyone still needs a reason to know that DHS is not looking out for your best interests, consider this-  They recommend that you arm yourself with scissors and try to "overpower" a mass shooter with them.  

I'm speechless.  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/31/new-homeland-security-video-how-fight-shooters-sci/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM

Anything to keep people from, you know.. actually defending themselves.  

hartsickdiscipl
You seem to be very confused, they are making no such recommendation. They are simply providing it as an option.
#6 Posted by Jacobistheman (3975 posts) -

Doesn't this mean that scissors are dangerous weapons and shouldn't be in schools? 

#7 Posted by Abbeten (2803 posts) -
my favorite response to mass shootings is and forever will be megan mcardle's
#8 Posted by Chaos_HL21 (5287 posts) -

Doesn't this mean that scissors are dangerous weapons and shouldn't be in schools? 

Jacobistheman

I don't know maybe they can cut down on crime.

#9 Posted by Jacobistheman (3975 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

Doesn't this mean that scissors are dangerous weapons and shouldn't be in schools? 

Chaos_HL21

I don't know maybe they can cut down on crime.

By this logic, guns can make crime rates shoot down, and hand grenades can blow crime rates away altogether.
#10 Posted by TwistedShade (3139 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

Doesn't this mean that scissors are dangerous weapons and shouldn't be in schools? 

Chaos_HL21

I don't know maybe they can cut down on crime.

what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jp

#11 Posted by whipassmt (13960 posts) -

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

Doesn't this mean that scissors are dangerous weapons and shouldn't be in schools?

Jacobistheman

I don't know maybe they can cut down on crime.

By this logic, guns can make crime rates shoot down, and hand grenades can blow crime rates away altogether.

lol.

#12 Posted by ionusX (25715 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jacobistheman"]

Doesn't this mean that scissors are dangerous weapons and shouldn't be in schools? 

Chaos_HL21

I don't know maybe they can cut down on crime.

GENIUS!

#13 Posted by shadowkiller11 (7953 posts) -
Kids need to be allowed to run in school hallways. That is better advice.
#14 Posted by whipassmt (13960 posts) -

What would be a good strategy for using scissors against a shooter? Rushing a shooter from the front will probably just end up in you getting shot. Maybe a person could sneak up behind the shooter and jam the scissors into his neck/face/throat area. But I'm guessing that most of the scissors at a school environment, especially in elementary schools and preschools are probably fairly dull.

A more effective option would be to let teachers carry firearms, provided they meant certain training and marksmanship standards, so that if a shooter comes in, they have the chance to defend themselves and their students.

#15 Posted by Rattlesnake_8 (18331 posts) -

Doesn't this mean that scissors are dangerous weapons and shouldn't be in schools? 

Jacobistheman
They don't let you take them on planes so yes.
#16 Posted by shadowkiller11 (7953 posts) -

more effective option would be to let teachers carry firearms, provided they meant certain training and marksmanship standards, so that if a shooter comes in, they have the chance to defend themselves and their students.

whipassmt
No... just no.
#17 Posted by whipassmt (13960 posts) -

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

more effective option would be to let teachers carry firearms, provided they meant certain training and marksmanship standards, so that if a shooter comes in, they have the chance to defend themselves and their students.

shadowkiller11

No... just no.

Then what are they supposed to do, charge a shooter with scissors?

#18 Posted by whipassmt (13960 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Quite possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen/read. US Dept. of Homeland Security put out a video of how to deal with mass shooting situations. If anyone still needs a reason to know that DHS is not looking out for your best interests, consider this- They recommend that you arm yourself with scissors and try to "overpower" a mass shooter with them.

I'm speechless.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/31/new-homeland-security-video-how-fight-shooters-sci/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM

Anything to keep people from, you know.. actually defending themselves.

thegerg

You seem to be very confused, they are making no such recommendation. They are simply providing it as an option.

This is an important distinction, you do well to point it out.

#19 Posted by Hakumen21 (342 posts) -

we need to nuke ourselves already.

 

if you take that literally^ thanks for proving my point.

#20 Posted by OB-47 (10908 posts) -

I protect myself with swag.

#21 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Quite possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen/read.  US Dept. of Homeland Security put out a video of how to deal with mass shooting situations.  If anyone still needs a reason to know that DHS is not looking out for your best interests, consider this-  They recommend that you arm yourself with scissors and try to "overpower" a mass shooter with them.  

I'm speechless.  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/31/new-homeland-security-video-how-fight-shooters-sci/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM

Anything to keep people from, you know.. actually defending themselves.  

thegerg

You seem to be very confused, they are making no such recommendation. They are simply providing it as an option.

 

It was an option before.  It doesn't become "an option" because DHS decides it is.  By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it.  At the very least, suggesting it.    

#22 Posted by thegerg (14670 posts) -

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Quite possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen/read.  US Dept. of Homeland Security put out a video of how to deal with mass shooting situations.  If anyone still needs a reason to know that DHS is not looking out for your best interests, consider this-  They recommend that you arm yourself with scissors and try to "overpower" a mass shooter with them.  

I'm speechless.  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/31/new-homeland-security-video-how-fight-shooters-sci/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM

Anything to keep people from, you know.. actually defending themselves.  

hartsickdiscipl

You seem to be very confused, they are making no such recommendation. They are simply providing it as an option.

 

It was an option before.  By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it.  

"It was an option before." Of course it was, what's your point? "By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it." 1-No, they aren't recommending it. 2-They don't say "try to overpower them by any means available."
#23 Posted by k2theswiss (16598 posts) -

Don't question my friend...

janet2.jpg

#24 Posted by chrisrooR (9026 posts) -

[QUOTE="shadowkiller11"][QUOTE="whipassmt"]

more effective option would be to let teachers carry firearms, provided they meant certain training and marksmanship standards, so that if a shooter comes in, they have the chance to defend themselves and their students.

whipassmt

No... just no.

Then what are they supposed to do, charge a shooter with scissors?

:lol: at you not even watching the video. They proposed that if you're in clear view of the shooter to either run, duck for cover or as a last resort use whatever items around yourself as a last line of defense. All the video does is offer some sound advice when there's a shooter at a workplace, school, hospital or elsewhere.
#25 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] You seem to be very confused, they are making no such recommendation. They are simply providing it as an option.thegerg

 

It was an option before.  By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it.  

"It was an option before." Of course it was, what's your point? "By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it." 1-No, they aren't recommending it. 2-They don't say "try to overpower them by any means available."

 

"You might considering trying to overpower the shooter by whatever means are available."  Then they show someone grabbing scissors out of a desk, suggesting that this might be a good option.  Everything is an "option."  They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation.  It's not a good idea.  Stop your trolling.     

#26 Posted by k2theswiss (16598 posts) -

ok just watched the video... scissors was in the video less then 2 seconds and they didn't use the name scissors. Basically said grab what you can to use as a weapon and IF you in school/office well there's good chance some pair of scissors is around..

 

better then grabbing the scott tape or 12in ruler...

#27 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

ok just watched the video... scissors was in the video less then 2 seconds and they didn't use the name scissors. Basically said grab what you can to use as a weapon and IF you in school/office well there's good chance some pair of scissors is around..k2theswiss

 

The issue is that they are putting it into people's heads that this might be a good option by featuring scissors as a weapon of choice in the video.  Not only that, but nowhere do they say to shoot back.  The best defense is a good offense.  Scissors are not a good offense.  A gun is.  

#28 Posted by chrisrooR (9026 posts) -

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

 

It was an option before.  By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it.  

hartsickdiscipl

"It was an option before." Of course it was, what's your point? "By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it." 1-No, they aren't recommending it. 2-They don't say "try to overpower them by any means available."

 

"You might considering trying to overpower the shooter by whatever means are available."  Then they show someone grabbing scissors out of a desk, suggesting that this might be a good option.  Everything is an "option."  They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation.  It's not a good idea.  Stop your trolling.     

It's a last resort to attempt to stop a shooter by using objects around you. This topic title is misleading, this topic is bad and you should feel bad. Homeland security never "SAYS..." anything. They use it as a last resort. They never suggested it was a good option, only that it was an option. I don't know where you're getting "good course of action" from.
#29 Posted by thegerg (14670 posts) -

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

 

It was an option before.  By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it.  

hartsickdiscipl

"It was an option before." Of course it was, what's your point? "By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it." 1-No, they aren't recommending it. 2-They don't say "try to overpower them by any means available."

 

"You might considering trying to overpower the shooter by whatever means are available."  Then they show someone grabbing scissors out of a desk, suggesting that this might be a good option.  Everything is an "option."  They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation.  It's not a good idea.  Stop your trolling.     

"suggesting that this might be a good option." And in some cases it might be a good option. "Everything is an "option."' Of course it is, what's your point? Saying that something is an option isn't a recommendation. " They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation." They also show someone shooting unarmed civilians, does this mean that they are recommending that as a good course of action? Showing something=/=recommendation. " It's not a good idea" In some cases it may be, don't be so closed minded.
#30 Posted by chrisrooR (9026 posts) -

[QUOTE="k2theswiss"]ok just watched the video... scissors was in the video less then 2 seconds and they didn't use the name scissors. Basically said grab what you can to use as a weapon and IF you in school/office well there's good chance some pair of scissors is around..hartsickdiscipl

 

The issue is that they are putting it into people's heads that this might be a good option by featuring scissors as a weapon of choice in the video.  Not only that, but nowhere do they say to shoot back.  The best defense is a good offense.  Scissors are not a good offense.  A gun is.  

They don't suggest shooting back because you're making yourself a target for police. Imagine if everyone on the floor had firearms and started shooting. For the love of Christ, how can you not see that being a bad idea? Having guns present at all times for the SMALL percent chance that something like this happens just seems irrational to me.
#31 Posted by Jacobistheman (3975 posts) -
[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="shadowkiller11"]No... just no.chrisrooR

Then what are they supposed to do, charge a shooter with scissors?

:lol: at you not even watching the video. They proposed that if you're in clear view of the shooter to either run, duck for cover or as a last resort use whatever items around yourself as a last line of defense. All the video does is offer some sound advice when there's a shooter at a workplace, school, hospital or elsewhere.

I am sure that they would recommend that someone who, instead of bringing scissors, had a gun in a gun fight use that gun either to shoot it into the ground to scare the shooter off or try to shoot the shooter.
#32 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] "It was an option before." Of course it was, what's your point? "By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it." 1-No, they aren't recommending it. 2-They don't say "try to overpower them by any means available."chrisrooR

 

"You might considering trying to overpower the shooter by whatever means are available."  Then they show someone grabbing scissors out of a desk, suggesting that this might be a good option.  Everything is an "option."  They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation.  It's not a good idea.  Stop your trolling.     

It's a last resort to attempt to stop a shooter by using objects around you. This topic title is misleading, this topic is bad and you should feel bad. Homeland security never "SAYS..." anything. They use it as a last resort. They never suggested it was a good option, only that it was an option. I don't know where you're getting "good course of action" from.

 

lol.. no.. I shouldn't "feel bad."  It's only misleading if you don't think about what the picture is telling you, and put yourself into that situation for a minute.

They didn't have to verbally "say" to attack the shooter with scissors.  What picture does it put into your head when they show the person grabbing the scissors?  Someone who made that video specificially thought "let's show someone grabbing scissors to attack a gunman with."  You can't deny that.  

#33 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="k2theswiss"]ok just watched the video... scissors was in the video less then 2 seconds and they didn't use the name scissors. Basically said grab what you can to use as a weapon and IF you in school/office well there's good chance some pair of scissors is around..chrisrooR

 

The issue is that they are putting it into people's heads that this might be a good option by featuring scissors as a weapon of choice in the video.  Not only that, but nowhere do they say to shoot back.  The best defense is a good offense.  Scissors are not a good offense.  A gun is.  

They don't suggest shooting back because you're making yourself a target for police. Imagine if everyone on the floor had firearms and started shooting. For the love of Christ, how can you not see that being a bad idea? Having guns present at all times for the SMALL percent chance that something like this happens just seems irrational to me.

Suggesting that Police will arrive in time to save you, and that you should depend on them for that.  

#34 Posted by Jacobistheman (3975 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="k2theswiss"]ok just watched the video... scissors was in the video less then 2 seconds and they didn't use the name scissors. Basically said grab what you can to use as a weapon and IF you in school/office well there's good chance some pair of scissors is around..chrisrooR

 

The issue is that they are putting it into people's heads that this might be a good option by featuring scissors as a weapon of choice in the video.  Not only that, but nowhere do they say to shoot back.  The best defense is a good offense.  Scissors are not a good offense.  A gun is.  

They don't suggest shooting back because you're making yourself a target for police. Imagine if everyone on the floor had firearms and started shooting. For the love of Christ, how can you not see that being a bad idea? Having guns present at all times for the SMALL percent chance that something like this happens just seems irrational to me.

You do realize that there are far more crimes in the US prevented by guns than committed? Estimates range from 200% up (which is in no way a small percentage).

 

EDIT: Sources

http://www.guncite.com/kleckandgertztable1.html (A compilation of a bunch of studies, they are old so the numbers have most likely gone up with population)

http://www.policyalmanac.org/crime/archive/firearms_and_crime.shtml (The total number of Violent crimes involving guns in the US, in the Year 2000) 

It looks more like it starts at 150% (but it is hard to tell since data is form different years), but that is still a huge percentage.  

#35 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] "It was an option before." Of course it was, what's your point? "By saying "try to overpower them by any means available," and showing someone grabbing scissors, they are recommending it." 1-No, they aren't recommending it. 2-They don't say "try to overpower them by any means available."thegerg

 

"You might considering trying to overpower the shooter by whatever means are available."  Then they show someone grabbing scissors out of a desk, suggesting that this might be a good option.  Everything is an "option."  They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation.  It's not a good idea.  Stop your trolling.     

"suggesting that this might be a good option." And in some cases it might be a good option. "Everything is an "option."' Of course it is, what's your point? Saying that something is an option isn't a recommendation. " They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation." They also show someone shooting unarmed civilians, does this mean that they are recommending that as a good course of action? Showing something=/=recommendation. " It's not a good idea" In some cases it may be, don't be so closed minded.

 

 

Give me a break.  You know as well as I that they were condemning the shooter and giving suggestions to potential victims.  Of course showing a shooter doesn't mean that they are suggesting to shoot a place up.  The words AND the picture form what's being communicated.  Good lord man.  Don't be so dense and/or intellectually dishonest.  

#36 Posted by k2theswiss (16598 posts) -

[QUOTE="k2theswiss"]ok just watched the video... scissors was in the video less then 2 seconds and they didn't use the name scissors. Basically said grab what you can to use as a weapon and IF you in school/office well there's good chance some pair of scissors is around..hartsickdiscipl

 

The issue is that they are putting it into people's heads that this might be a good option by featuring scissors as a weapon of choice in the video.  Not only that, but nowhere do they say to shoot back.  The best defense is a good offense.  Scissors are not a good offense.  A gun is.  

lets be honest. how many people carry their gun on them to work Ect, Ect? i can't image a lot. SO with that said whats able in most work environments and that is able to be used has a weapon? scissors.

#37 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="k2theswiss"]ok just watched the video... scissors was in the video less then 2 seconds and they didn't use the name scissors. Basically said grab what you can to use as a weapon and IF you in school/office well there's good chance some pair of scissors is around..k2theswiss

 

The issue is that they are putting it into people's heads that this might be a good option by featuring scissors as a weapon of choice in the video.  Not only that, but nowhere do they say to shoot back.  The best defense is a good offense.  Scissors are not a good offense.  A gun is.  

lets be honest. how many people carry their gun on them to work Ect, Ect? i can't image a lot. SO with that said whats able in most work environments and that is able to be used has a weapon? scissors.

 

Unless you're an expert scissor-thrower, it's not going to do you much good.  What I'm suggesting is that maybe people should be armed at work.  If this mass shooting problem is so bad (which it's not) that the DHS feels the need to present the public with a video like this, they should provide some powerful and truly constructive suggestions for action.  I understand that most people are not currently carrying guns.  I'd like to live in a world where guns don't exist.  Unfortunately, they do.  The DHS is telling people that they are powerless to defend themselves with anything more than a pair of scissors.  That they should just wait under a desk or behind a planter for the police to arrive.  That's not proactive advice that will get anything done.  

#38 Posted by chrisrooR (9026 posts) -

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

 

"You might considering trying to overpower the shooter by whatever means are available."  Then they show someone grabbing scissors out of a desk, suggesting that this might be a good option.  Everything is an "option."  They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation.  It's not a good idea.  Stop your trolling.     

hartsickdiscipl

It's a last resort to attempt to stop a shooter by using objects around you. This topic title is misleading, this topic is bad and you should feel bad. Homeland security never "SAYS..." anything. They use it as a last resort. They never suggested it was a good option, only that it was an option. I don't know where you're getting "good course of action" from.

 

lol.. no.. I shouldn't "feel bad."  It's only misleading if you don't think about what the picture is telling you, and put yourself into that situation for a minute.

They didn't have to verbally "say" to attack the shooter with scissors.  What picture does it put into your head when they show the person grabbing the scissors?  Someone who made that video specificially thought "let's show someone grabbing scissors to attack a gunman with."  You can't deny that.  

 

You should feel bad because you're consistently one of the worst posters I see on these forums. It's misleading if you understand the context of the video. They aren't advising to grab scissors and run at an attacker, the video highlights that this should be a last resort. If they had shown a person unplugging and throwing a phone, I'm sure you would have radically attacked that as well 

"OHHH LAWD THE GOVERNMENT WANTS US TO THROW CHAIRS AT SHOOTERS AND THEY THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA!" - no it isn't, it's an option. A last resort.

You insinuated that they made it seem like it is a good idea. It's not and they never said that, it's just an option. Probably not a great one, but it's an option. 

#40 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"] It's a last resort to attempt to stop a shooter by using objects around you. This topic title is misleading, this topic is bad and you should feel bad. Homeland security never "SAYS..." anything. They use it as a last resort. They never suggested it was a good option, only that it was an option. I don't know where you're getting "good course of action" from.chrisrooR

 

lol.. no.. I shouldn't "feel bad."  It's only misleading if you don't think about what the picture is telling you, and put yourself into that situation for a minute.

They didn't have to verbally "say" to attack the shooter with scissors.  What picture does it put into your head when they show the person grabbing the scissors?  Someone who made that video specificially thought "let's show someone grabbing scissors to attack a gunman with."  You can't deny that.  

 

You should feel bad because you're consistently one of the worst posters I see on these forums. It's misleading if you understand the context of the video. They aren't advising to grab scissors and run at an attacker, the video highlights that this should be a last resort. If they had shown a person unplugging and throwing a phone, I'm sure you would have radically attacked that as well 

"OHHH LAWD THE GOVERNMENT WANTS US TO THROW CHAIRS AT SHOOTERS AND THEY THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA!" - no it isn't, it's an option. A last resort.

You insinuated that they made it seem like it is a good idea. It's not and they never said that, it's just an option. Probably not a great one, but it's an option. 

 

This video does nothing to make people feel empowered to stop shooters.  Therefore, it's a bad video.  That was the point of what I was trying to communicate.  

If you think I'm such a "bad poster," why do you visit my threads?  Why not do something more constructive with your life?

#41 Posted by Guybrush_3 (8308 posts) -

Quite possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen/read.  US Dept. of Homeland Security put out a video of how to deal with mass shooting situations.  If anyone still needs a reason to know that DHS is not looking out for your best interests, consider this-  They recommend that you arm yourself with scissors and try to "overpower" a mass shooter with them.  

I'm speechless.  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/31/new-homeland-security-video-how-fight-shooters-sci/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM

Anything to keep people from, you know.. actually defending themselves.  

hartsickdiscipl

Sign that this thread is based on a lie ofr half truth #1: The Op is Hartsick

Sign #2: the sources listed are blatantly conservatively biased.

sign #3: it seems way too stupid to be true

and now lets watch the video.

...

The signs were correct. This story is infact based on a half truth.

#42 Posted by thegerg (14670 posts) -

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

 

"You might considering trying to overpower the shooter by whatever means are available."  Then they show someone grabbing scissors out of a desk, suggesting that this might be a good option.  Everything is an "option."  They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation.  It's not a good idea.  Stop your trolling.     

hartsickdiscipl

"suggesting that this might be a good option." And in some cases it might be a good option. "Everything is an "option."' Of course it is, what's your point? Saying that something is an option isn't a recommendation. " They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation." They also show someone shooting unarmed civilians, does this mean that they are recommending that as a good course of action? Showing something=/=recommendation. " It's not a good idea" In some cases it may be, don't be so closed minded.

 

 

Give me a break.  You know as well as I that they were condemning the shooter and giving suggestions to potential victims.  Of course showing a shooter doesn't mean that they are suggesting to shoot a place up.  The words AND the picture form what's being communicated.  Good lord man.  Don't be so dense and/or intellectually dishonest.  

The criterion that YOU suggested as a recommendation for a "possible good course of action" is showing it. I'm simply following your logic kiddo.

 

 

There are numerous actions that could be taken in such a situation, and no single one is appropriate or best for every situation. Mission analysis is a very important part of the process, and to think that there's any single image that they could show there that would be appropriate for every conceivable active shooter scenario is just plain dumb. If we're to think that the image being shown at that second is to be taken as a blanket recommendation then the only reasonable thing to show would be a blank screen, because no single course of action is always appropriate.

 

The DHS is simply providing information about the vetted and generally agreed upon "get out, hide out, take out" method that civilians or unarmed AT personnel should follow. I'd bet everything I have to say that I have far more anti-terror training and experience than you. In fact, I have DHS, DoD, JSIVA, Army, and USAMPS regulations on that very subject within arm's reach right now. No federal agency provides recommendation that one confront an active shooter with a pair of scissors, trust me on that. Your misinterpretation of a video you saw online doesn't change that.

#44 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Quite possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen/read.  US Dept. of Homeland Security put out a video of how to deal with mass shooting situations.  If anyone still needs a reason to know that DHS is not looking out for your best interests, consider this-  They recommend that you arm yourself with scissors and try to "overpower" a mass shooter with them.  

I'm speechless.  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/31/new-homeland-security-video-how-fight-shooters-sci/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/shear_bravery_beats_guns_feds_d9BanDpupuVezePd6trYoM

Anything to keep people from, you know.. actually defending themselves.  

Guybrush_3

Sign that this thread is based on a lie ofr half truth #1: The Op is Hartsick

Sign #2: the sources listed are blatantly conservatively biased.

sign #3: it seems way too stupid to be true

and now lets watch the video.

...

The signs were correct. This story is infact based on a half truth.

 

It's tough to see the truth with your head in the sand.  It's called "reading between the lines."  I don't want the federal government spreading videos around that paint us as victims that can do nothing more than hide under desks and defend ourselves with scissors.  Just sit there and wait until the police arrive like a good little slave.  You don't need to arm yourself.  

#45 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] "suggesting that this might be a good option." And in some cases it might be a good option. "Everything is an "option."' Of course it is, what's your point? Saying that something is an option isn't a recommendation. " They wouldn't have shown someone grabbing scissors if they weren't recommending it as a possible good course of action in such a situation." They also show someone shooting unarmed civilians, does this mean that they are recommending that as a good course of action? Showing something=/=recommendation. " It's not a good idea" In some cases it may be, don't be so closed minded.thegerg

 

 

Give me a break.  You know as well as I that they were condemning the shooter and giving suggestions to potential victims.  Of course showing a shooter doesn't mean that they are suggesting to shoot a place up.  The words AND the picture form what's being communicated.  Good lord man.  Don't be so dense and/or intellectually dishonest.  

The criterion that YOU suggested as a recommendation for a "possible good course of action" is showing it. I'm simply following your logic kiddo. There are numerous actions that could be taken in such a situation, and no single one is appropriate or best for every situation. Mission analysis is a very important part of the process, and to think that there's any single image that they could show there that would be appropriate for every conceivable active shooter scenario is just plain dumb. If we're to think that the image being shown at that second is to be taken as a blanket recommendation then the only reasonable thing to show would be a blank screen, because no single course of action is always appropriate. The DHS is simply providing information about the vetted and generally agreed upon "get out, hide out, take out" method that civilians or unarmed AT personnel should follow. I'd bet everything I have to say that I have far more anti-terror training and experience than you. In fact, I have DHS and DoD regulations on that very subject within arm's reach right now. No federal agency provides recommendation that one confront an active shooter with a pair of scissors, trust me on that. Your misinterpretation of a video you saw online doesn't change that.

 

If you got your training from DHS, I am truly sorry for you.  They think that farmers with shotguns are threats now.  

Question- Do you or do you not think that people who watched that video are more likely to try to take a shooter out with scissors than they were before they watched it?

#46 Posted by chessmaster1989 (29078 posts) -
Surprise surprise, hartstick is too f*cking stupid to realize this is meant as advice if you don't have another means of defense.
#47 Posted by hartsickdiscipl (14787 posts) -

Surprise surprise, hartstick is too f*cking stupid to realize this is meant as advice if you don't have another means of defense.chessmaster1989

 

Bad advice.  

#48 Posted by chrisrooR (9026 posts) -

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

 

lol.. no.. I shouldn't "feel bad."  It's only misleading if you don't think about what the picture is telling you, and put yourself into that situation for a minute.

They didn't have to verbally "say" to attack the shooter with scissors.  What picture does it put into your head when they show the person grabbing the scissors?  Someone who made that video specificially thought "let's show someone grabbing scissors to attack a gunman with."  You can't deny that.  

hartsickdiscipl

 

You should feel bad because you're consistently one of the worst posters I see on these forums. It's misleading if you understand the context of the video. They aren't advising to grab scissors and run at an attacker, the video highlights that this should be a last resort. If they had shown a person unplugging and throwing a phone, I'm sure you would have radically attacked that as well 

"OHHH LAWD THE GOVERNMENT WANTS US TO THROW CHAIRS AT SHOOTERS AND THEY THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA!" - no it isn't, it's an option. A last resort.

You insinuated that they made it seem like it is a good idea. It's not and they never said that, it's just an option. Probably not a great one, but it's an option. 

 

This video does nothing to make people feel empowered to stop shooters.  Therefore, it's a bad video.  That was the point of what I was trying to communicate.  

If you think I'm such a "bad poster," why do you visit my threads?  Why not do something more constructive with your life?

You're not supposed to feel empowered to stop shooters. How are you really supposed to confront them when they are usually armed and wearing bullet-proof armor? Especially in environments where you're not able to carry a weapon? You were trying to communicate that there was a slant toward having scissors out should be a first line of defense. They never said that, and that's exactly what the title of this thread implicates. They advise running away, exiting the building if possible, ducking for cover, hiding oneself in obscure places, turning your phone on silent...etc. The scissors come into play AFTER all of the previous ideas are exhausted. A last resort for someone who's going to die. And I visit your threads because seeing the GS community take a dump on your ideas makes me laugh.
#49 Posted by thegerg (14670 posts) -

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

 

 

Give me a break.  You know as well as I that they were condemning the shooter and giving suggestions to potential victims.  Of course showing a shooter doesn't mean that they are suggesting to shoot a place up.  The words AND the picture form what's being communicated.  Good lord man.  Don't be so dense and/or intellectually dishonest.  

hartsickdiscipl

The criterion that YOU suggested as a recommendation for a "possible good course of action" is showing it. I'm simply following your logic kiddo. There are numerous actions that could be taken in such a situation, and no single one is appropriate or best for every situation. Mission analysis is a very important part of the process, and to think that there's any single image that they could show there that would be appropriate for every conceivable active shooter scenario is just plain dumb. If we're to think that the image being shown at that second is to be taken as a blanket recommendation then the only reasonable thing to show would be a blank screen, because no single course of action is always appropriate. The DHS is simply providing information about the vetted and generally agreed upon "get out, hide out, take out" method that civilians or unarmed AT personnel should follow. I'd bet everything I have to say that I have far more anti-terror training and experience than you. In fact, I have DHS and DoD regulations on that very subject within arm's reach right now. No federal agency provides recommendation that one confront an active shooter with a pair of scissors, trust me on that. Your misinterpretation of a video you saw online doesn't change that.

 

If you got your training from DHS, I am truly sorry for you.  They think that farmers with shotguns are threats now.  

Question- Do you or do you not think that people who watched that video are more likely to try to take a shooter out with scissors than they were before they watched it?

Some through DHS, some from the State Department, but most through DoD. A farmer with a shotgun can be a threat. It's silly to think otherwise. "Do you or do you not think that people who watched that video are more likely to try to take a shooter out with scissors than they were before they watched it?" No. Do you?
#50 Posted by thegerg (14670 posts) -

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]Surprise surprise, hartstick is too f*cking stupid to realize this is meant as advice if you don't have another means of defense.hartsickdiscipl

 

Bad advice.  

Hold on...You're saying it's bad advice to fight with a pair of scissors if you have no other means of personal preservation? What would be a better course of action in that scenario?