Heaven Is For Real

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#101 Posted by comp_atkins (31213 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@HoolaHoopMan said:

The Quran is a miracle....because the Quran says that it is a miracle. Brilliant!!! Please post more circular proofs.

The Quran is a miracle because it challenges you to bring at least a chapter like it and no one has yet been able to do so. What are you? A twelve years old? It says if you believe it is not then do this. Not that if you believe it's not then go f*ck yourselves because I say so...

who is the authority on whether or not any have brought a chapter like it? surely it can't be someone who believes beforehand such a thing can not be done. you would need an impartial judge.

#102 Edited by alim298 (1142 posts) -

who is the authority on whether or not any have brought a chapter like it? surely it can't be someone who believes beforehand such a thing can not be done. you would need an impartial judge.

IDK. Maybe someone has written a better chapter but that someone has never brought his work to this challenge. There are many people in this world who try to say Quran is not a divine work. They use all stupid reasons to prove that. Don't you find that odd that none of them has ever written a chapter like it or has never found anything that has the same literature as Quran? I'll say they were stubborn enough to try so but failed.

#103 Edited by -Renegade (8340 posts) -

@Nibroc420 said:
@GrayF0X786 said:

how is he a troll?

@alim298 said:

@GrayF0X786: I hope one day Christians learn to justify God with realistic reasons other than mythical experiments and these shitty stuff. Or... Just stop messing with Islam and let the people hear the voice of a true religion.

Implying that Christianity is false and "unrealistic", and that Islam is "the voice of a true religion"

so did Jesus die for the sins of the Muslims aswell?

muslims don't believe that jesus was crucified.

#104 Posted by Ace6301 (21388 posts) -

Fortunately for them if you can sucker people in hard every critic in the world could hate it and it could still pull a handy profit.

#105 Posted by hippiesanta (9767 posts) -

Aren't we suppose to talk about movie here??

#106 Posted by toast_burner (21338 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@comp_atkins said:

who is the authority on whether or not any have brought a chapter like it? surely it can't be someone who believes beforehand such a thing can not be done. you would need an impartial judge.

IDK. Maybe someone has written a better chapter but that someone has never brought his work to this challenge. There are many people in this world who try to say Quran is not a divine work. They use all stupid reasons to prove that. Don't you find that odd that none of them has ever written a chapter like it or has never found anything that has the same literature as Quran? I'll say they were stubborn enough to try so but failed.

what makes the Quran special?

#108 Posted by alim298 (1142 posts) -
#109 Posted by comp_atkins (31213 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@comp_atkins said:

who is the authority on whether or not any have brought a chapter like it? surely it can't be someone who believes beforehand such a thing can not be done. you would need an impartial judge.

IDK. Maybe someone has written a better chapter but that someone has never brought his work to this challenge. There are many people in this world who try to say Quran is not a divine work. They use all stupid reasons to prove that. Don't you find that odd that none of them has ever written a chapter like it or has never found anything that has the same literature as Quran? I'll say they were stubborn enough to try so but failed.

forget the actual trying to prove disprove it's divinity for now. before you can even attempt to do that, you have to establish the rules for which it will be judged. that's where we are stuck. you can't have a contest if no one is sure what the rules even are.

#110 Posted by toast_burner (21338 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@toast_burner:

It is somehow like a poem. It has tune. Sentences are usually short while the subject is fully described. It has spiritual influence and it sucks you in. Take this link for instance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hitpQoQy6X8

That's entirely subjective. For it to be proof it must be objective.

#111 Posted by alim298 (1142 posts) -

before you can even attempt to do that, you have to establish the rules for which it will be judged. that's where we are stuck. you can't have a contest if no one is sure what the rules even are.

I don't know the answer to that... Well of curse there are some rules like having short sentences that fully describe the matter. Or a poetic sense to it. Or spiritual influence. But what I said does not satisfy me. Because there are books with such traits (like nahjolbalaghe by Ali) but it still feels like they are much shorter than Quran...

#112 Posted by LexLas (4214 posts) -

Beautiful movie, very inspirational. Although there will be lots of speculation, based on untrue facts, or parts of the movie, due to differ opinions. Still good to see movies like this make their way to the planet that so needs to be shown a taste of miracles once in a while. Does not hurt, is my opinion.

#113 Edited by toast_burner (21338 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@comp_atkins said:

before you can even attempt to do that, you have to establish the rules for which it will be judged. that's where we are stuck. you can't have a contest if no one is sure what the rules even are.

I don't know the answer to that... Well of curse there are some rules like having short sentences that fully describe the matter. Or a poetic sense to it. Or spiritual influence. But what I said does not satisfy me. Because there are books with such traits (like nahjolbalaghe by Ali) but it still feels like they are much shorter than Quran...

But to me the Quran has no spiritual influence, in fact some parts I find to be the exact opposite.

#114 Posted by toast_burner (21338 posts) -

@LexLas said:

Beautiful movie, very inspirational. Although there will be lots of speculation, based on untrue facts, or parts of the movie, due to differ opinions. Still good to see movies like this make their way to the planet that so needs to be shown a taste of miracles once in a while. Does not hurt, is my opinion.

I'm not sure about that. Passing fiction off as reality could be potentially harmful.

#115 Edited by alim298 (1142 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

That's entirely subjective. For it to be proof it must be objective.

I don't know. Those sentences ARE short, English translation is way LONGER than Arabic text and It is poetic. So it does prove what I said. Well you still can argue that such traits do not make a book special.

@toast_burner said:

But to me the Quran has no spiritual influence, in fact some parts I find to be the exact opposite.

I'm really curious about those parts... (No joking I mean it. It's good to see a non-Muslim's opinion)

#117 Posted by toast_burner (21338 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@toast_burner said:

That's entirely subjective. For it to be proof it must be objective.

I don't know. Those sentences ARE short, English translation is way LONGER than Arabic text and It is poetic. So it does prove what I said. Well you still can argue that such traits do not make a book special.

But being short doesn't mean it's good. Saying it's poetic means nothing, lots of things are poetic. How is it more poetic than any other poem? What the hell does more poetic even mean?

Again everything you're saying is subjective. I could just as easily argue that the structure Finnegans Wake makes it unlike any other book and therefore James Joyce (praise be upon him) is the true prophet of god.

#118 Edited by alim298 (1142 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

But being short doesn't mean it's good. Saying it's poetic means nothing, lots of things are poetic. How is it more poetic than any other poem? What the hell does more poetic even mean?

Again everything you're saying is subjective. I could just as easily argue that the structure Finnegans Wake makes it unlike any other book and therefore James Joyce (praise be upon him) is the true prophet of god.

I take your point. But still there are some things to be said. Quran says "bring even only one chapter like it" and Quran has a chapter consisting of three sentences. I am neither Arab nor English to judge this matter But my guess is someone can try (or already has tried) to write like three sentences like that book and has been admired for it. But no one has done the same with Quran. But yes you'r right. It's all subjective. Basically because I lack the knowledge on this or that it is absolutely impossible not to be subjective in this matter. I don't know...

#119 Edited by GrayF0X786 (3833 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@toast_burner said:

That's entirely subjective. For it to be proof it must be objective.

I don't know. Those sentences ARE short, English translation is way LONGER than Arabic text and It is poetic. So it does prove what I said. Well you still can argue that such traits do not make a book special.

But being short doesn't mean it's good. Saying it's poetic means nothing, lots of things are poetic. How is it more poetic than any other poem? What the hell does more poetic even mean?

Again everything you're saying is subjective. I could just as easily argue that the structure Finnegans Wake makes it unlike any other book and therefore James Joyce (praise be upon him) is the true prophet of god.

missed a few posts here but here is what one must do to make a superior scripture then the Qu'ran

1. Replicate the Qur’an’s literary form

2. Match the unique linguistic nature of the Qur’an

3. Select and arrange words like that of the Qur’an

4. Select and arrange similar grammatical particles

5. Match the Qur’an’s superior eloquence and sound

6. Equal the frequency of rhetorical devices

7. Match the level of content and informativeness

8. Equal the Qur’an’s conciseness and flexibility

#120 Edited by LexLas (4214 posts) -

@LexLas said:

Beautiful movie, very inspirational. Although there will be lots of speculation, based on untrue facts, or parts of the movie, due to differ opinions. Still good to see movies like this make their way to the planet that so needs to be shown a taste of miracles once in a while. Does not hurt, is my opinion.

I'm not sure about that. Passing fiction off as reality could be potentially harmful.

Tell that to Hollywood, that would mean we would never have movies if that was the case.

#121 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@alim298 said:

@toast_burner said:

That's entirely subjective. For it to be proof it must be objective.

I don't know. Those sentences ARE short, English translation is way LONGER than Arabic text and It is poetic. So it does prove what I said. Well you still can argue that such traits do not make a book special.

But being short doesn't mean it's good. Saying it's poetic means nothing, lots of things are poetic. How is it more poetic than any other poem? What the hell does more poetic even mean?

Again everything you're saying is subjective. I could just as easily argue that the structure Finnegans Wake makes it unlike any other book and therefore James Joyce (praise be upon him) is the true prophet of god.

missed a few posts here but here is what one must do to make a superior scripture then the Qu'ran

1. Replicate the Qur’an’s literary form

2. Match the unique linguistic nature of the Qur’an

3. Select and arrange words like that of the Qur’an

4. Select and arrange similar grammatical particles

5. Match the Qur’an’s superior eloquence and sound

6. Equal the frequency of rhetorical devices

7. Match the level of content and informativeness

8. Equal the Qur’an’s conciseness and flexibility

Thats quite the opinion.

But can you prove it?

#122 Posted by toast_burner (21338 posts) -

@toast_burner said:

@alim298 said:

@toast_burner said:

That's entirely subjective. For it to be proof it must be objective.

I don't know. Those sentences ARE short, English translation is way LONGER than Arabic text and It is poetic. So it does prove what I said. Well you still can argue that such traits do not make a book special.

But being short doesn't mean it's good. Saying it's poetic means nothing, lots of things are poetic. How is it more poetic than any other poem? What the hell does more poetic even mean?

Again everything you're saying is subjective. I could just as easily argue that the structure Finnegans Wake makes it unlike any other book and therefore James Joyce (praise be upon him) is the true prophet of god.

missed a few posts here but here is what one must do to make a superior scripture then the Qu'ran

1. Replicate the Qur’an’s literary form

2. Match the unique linguistic nature of the Qur’an

3. Select and arrange words like that of the Qur’an

4. Select and arrange similar grammatical particles

5. Match the Qur’an’s superior eloquence and sound

6. Equal the frequency of rhetorical devices

7. Match the level of content and informativeness

8. Equal the Qur’an’s conciseness and flexibility

Now why would I want to do that? Why don't you match Finnegans Wake?

And again how is it superior? Thats completely subjective.

#123 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -


8. Equal the Qur’an’s conciseness and flexibility

A book with 114 chapters divided into 30 parts is "concise"?

Was the 12 book series of Harry Potter, a "Short Story" in your world?

#124 Posted by alim298 (1142 posts) -

A book with 114 chapters divided into 30 parts is "concise"?

Was the 12 book series of Harry Potter, a "Short Story" in your world?

Have you ever seen a Quran in your life? My Quran is 600 pages. Every fu*king Harry potter book is 600 pages.

#125 Posted by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@Nibroc420 said:

A book with 114 chapters divided into 30 parts is "concise"?

Was the 12 book series of Harry Potter, a "Short Story" in your world?

Have you ever seen a Quran in your life? My Quran is 600 pages. Every fu*king Harry potter book is 600 pages.

Clearly you've never compared the text size...

#126 Posted by alim298 (1142 posts) -
#127 Edited by Nibroc420 (13567 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@Nibroc420 said:

Clearly you've never compared the text size...

That makes me sure you have never seen an Arabic Quran.

http://quran.com/1

Because it being in Arabic, makes it more concise...

Do you even know what the word concise means?

You can't call a 114 chapter book, "concise"

#128 Posted by alim298 (1142 posts) -

Because it being in Arabic, makes it more concise...

Do you even know what the word concise means?

You can't call a 114 chapter book, "concise"

chapter 114: 6 verses- Chapter 113: 5 verses- Chapter 113: 4 verses- Chapter 112: 5 verses- Chapter 111: 3 verses- Chapter 110: 6 verses etc. Is that not concise? Did you see the link I addressed? It was only 7 verses...

#129 Edited by GrayF0X786 (3833 posts) -

i cannot believe people are bringing harry potter into this.

Atheists have NOTHING, what are your excuses about the Qu'ran mentioning the big bang and the expansion of the universe 1400 years ago?

#130 Posted by Ace6301 (21388 posts) -

i cannot believe people are bringing harry potter into this.

Atheists have NOTHING, what are your excuses about the Qu'ran mentioning the big bang and the expansion of the universe 1400 years ago?

It mentions something that with knowledge of the big bang theory could be seen as referring to the big bang. It gets the fundamentals wrong and its incredibly vague but yeah I see how someone who doesn't understand the big bang theory could think that.

#131 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7723 posts) -

i cannot believe people are bringing harry potter into this.

Atheists have NOTHING, what are your excuses about the Qu'ran mentioning the big bang and the expansion of the universe 1400 years ago?

Because it doesn't? Looking back at past discoveries and saying, 'hey it totally said that', is pretty stupid. If the Quran had predictive power we'd be using it as source material for physical discoveries.

I could just as easily say Nostradamus has the same predictive capacity as the Quran, which is essentially none.

#132 Posted by limpbizkit818 (15033 posts) -

@Ace6301 said:

@GrayF0X786 said:

i cannot believe people are bringing harry potter into this.

Atheists have NOTHING, what are your excuses about the Qu'ran mentioning the big bang and the expansion of the universe 1400 years ago?

It mentions something that with knowledge of the big bang theory could be seen as referring to the big bang. It gets the fundamentals wrong and its incredibly vague but yeah I see how someone who doesn't understand the big bang theory could think that.

I'm waiting for the day that people stop relying to GrayFox. He posts the same junk over and over and over in different topics.............

#133 Edited by lunar1122 (658 posts) -

@alim298: does the quran also have evolution in there as well? Does it teach we are evolved apes? or does it spread the myth of adam and eve as well like christianity/judaism... Science book my ass. The quran is basically a bunch of stolen shit from the torah and a self professed prophet pretending to be a messenger of god like many thousands that pretend to be messengers/son/messiah etc of god.

Not one of the holy scriptures deserve any respect, especially the quran. The amount of hatred for the unbeliever in the quran could only come from a demon if one was to grant the supernatural realm to exist. The quran is no more special than the bible or the book of mormon, Its a work of fiction

#134 Edited by Ace6301 (21388 posts) -

@Ace6301 said:

@GrayF0X786 said:

i cannot believe people are bringing harry potter into this.

Atheists have NOTHING, what are your excuses about the Qu'ran mentioning the big bang and the expansion of the universe 1400 years ago?

It mentions something that with knowledge of the big bang theory could be seen as referring to the big bang. It gets the fundamentals wrong and its incredibly vague but yeah I see how someone who doesn't understand the big bang theory could think that.

I'm waiting for the day that people stop relying to GrayFox. He posts the same junk over and over and over in different topics.............

He doesn't matter, the belief that the Quran says stuff it clearly doesn't is actually a thing though.

#135 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (3752 posts) -

@Ace6301 said:

@GrayF0X786 said:

i cannot believe people are bringing harry potter into this.

Atheists have NOTHING, what are your excuses about the Qu'ran mentioning the big bang and the expansion of the universe 1400 years ago?

It mentions something that with knowledge of the big bang theory could be seen as referring to the big bang. It gets the fundamentals wrong and its incredibly vague but yeah I see how someone who doesn't understand the big bang theory could think that.

I'm waiting for the day that people stop relying to GrayFox. He posts the same junk over and over and over in different topics.............

I have a feeling he'll end up blowing himself up one day so he'll vanish from this site eventually.

#136 Posted by Beagle050 (715 posts) -

Looks like a total saccharine-fest

#137 Posted by alim298 (1142 posts) -

@lunar1122: I don't know why I am actually smiling at this. I mean I'm actually enjoying that you are such an ignorant. God don't guide this foolish man please...

#138 Posted by GrayF0X786 (3833 posts) -

@alim298: does the quran also have evolution in there as well? Does it teach we are evolved apes? or does it spread the myth of adam and eve as well like christianity/judaism... Science book my ass. The quran is basically a bunch of stolen shit from the torah and a self professed prophet pretending to be a messenger of god like many thousands that pretend to be messengers/son/messiah etc of god.

Not one of the holy scriptures deserve any respect, especially the quran. The amount of hatred for the unbeliever in the quran could only come from a demon if one was to grant the supernatural realm to exist. The quran is no more special than the bible or the book of mormon, Its a work of fiction

too much fail in one post.

#139 Edited by lunar1122 (658 posts) -

@alim298 said:

@lunar1122: I don't know why I am actually smiling at this. I mean I'm actually enjoying that you are such an ignorant. God don't guide this foolish man please...

Foolish men think the quran is true. Its a piece of shit inspired by a pedophile prophet.

-Crime for Apostasy? = death

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses

2:217, 9:73-74, 8:21, 5:54, 9:66

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-Woman raped? need 4 witnesses to prove it

Qur'an (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam).

Qur'an (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them..." Strictly speaking, this verse addresses adultery (revealed at the very time that Muhammad's favorite wife was being accused of adultery on the basis of only three witnesses coincidentally enough). However it is a part of the theological underpinning of the Sharia rule on rape, since if there are not four male witnesses, the rape "did not occur".

Qur'an (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."

Qur'an (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." There is no such thing as rape in marriage, as a man is permitted unrestricted sexual access to his wives.

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-Commands to Beat your wifes 4:34 http://quran.com/4/34

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand

Tune in next time for lessons from the book of harry potter

#140 Edited by Nengo_Flow (9376 posts) -

'Based on a true story', what a crock of shit.