Good video on feminism and "nice guys"

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Rhazakna

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#51 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
I don't see how being a "nice guy" means you feel entitled to anything. Basically, the complaint as I see it is that men who act kindly to women and treat them with respect don't turn them on as much as guys who don't give a sh*t about any of that and just say what they think. That men with retiring, and shy personalities aren't as successful as men who are boisterous assh*les. These are truths. I've experienced this both in my personal life, and what evidence there is seems to suggest it's about right. The number one thing when it comes to success with women is confidence. Nice guys lack it, douchebags don't. Pretty simple stuff.
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Rhazakna

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#52 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]Ah, GirlWritesWhat...an interesting person who manages to make decent points about 25% of the time, but usually wraps them in misogyny, or enforces her argument by cherrypicking events in history. I tend to shy away from the "nice guy" debate myself because I find the term entirely too static for the amount of variation within its supposed population. it ends up being more of a stereotype like "tomboy". In the end, anyone who feels entitled to another's affection is an idiot. Instead of using the term "nice guy" or whatever, why not just call people out when they use that excuse? "I'm not going to date him he's a 'nice guy'...ugh." Why not just say the dude's acting entitled? "Leona's a b****, I don't get why she's not interested in me. I'm a nice guy!" It's because she doesn't like you, she doesn't need any more reason than that. I just think the "nice guy" is a waste of time to talk about. It ties up a lot of social issues into a nice arbitrary package that ends up making the root causes, like how people call youth assault and harassment "Bullying".Lockedge

Heh, I thought I was the only person here who knew about GWW. :V

Anyway, you have a good point. Aside from what you've said about the label, another problem with the "nice guy" label in my view is that it gives others the impression that women who don't like "nice guys" only care about guys who are total jerks (thereby feeding some already nasty misogynistic stereotypes). The evidence for that consequence is how pick-up artists use the label in order to put forth their own theories about dating women (none of which I find very nice or egalitarian).

Oh lawd, the PUA community is...rancid. But yeah, I hate the manufactured dichotomy. She doesn't like me, and I'm a nice guy, so she must like jerks. I heard that tripe all the time in high school. There was a girl I was friends with who I kept telling my friends was single and looking. She was really good looking, though, and they ended up not talking to her at all. A few months later she settles for this relatively average guy witha fairly abrasive personality, because no one else would ask her out, and she was pretty desperate at that point. And then my friends said she was a b**** and was proof that girls only date jerks. Just baffling logic. The option was clearly open, they had an in through me, and they didn't take it. So they use the "nice guy" trope to cover up their own inability to go up give it a shot, which isn't fair to her. I mean, she could have asked a guy out, but that's neither here nor there (it was taboo in my school and any girl who did it would be shamed as a lesbian, and there were some real consequences for any visible/assumed/known LBG people) . I don't think it's difficult to approach someone with the mindset that not everyone is compatible.

WHat I find interesting is that no man who seriously tries to determine what attracts women says being a nice, respectful guy is the way to go. Women may say that, but no guy who has gone from virgin-to-player sees this as the case, Food for thought.
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Lockedge

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#53 Lockedge
Member since 2002 • 16765 Posts

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

Heh, I thought I was the only person here who knew about GWW. :V

Anyway, you have a good point. Aside from what you've said about the label, another problem with the "nice guy" label in my view is that it gives others the impression that women who don't like "nice guys" only care about guys who are total jerks (thereby feeding some already nasty misogynistic stereotypes). The evidence for that consequence is how pick-up artists use the label in order to put forth their own theories about dating women (none of which I find very nice or egalitarian).

Rhazakna

Oh lawd, the PUA community is...rancid. But yeah, I hate the manufactured dichotomy. She doesn't like me, and I'm a nice guy, so she must like jerks. I heard that tripe all the time in high school. There was a girl I was friends with who I kept telling my friends was single and looking. She was really good looking, though, and they ended up not talking to her at all. A few months later she settles for this relatively average guy witha fairly abrasive personality, because no one else would ask her out, and she was pretty desperate at that point. And then my friends said she was a b**** and was proof that girls only date jerks. Just baffling logic. The option was clearly open, they had an in through me, and they didn't take it. So they use the "nice guy" trope to cover up their own inability to go up give it a shot, which isn't fair to her. I mean, she could have asked a guy out, but that's neither here nor there (it was taboo in my school and any girl who did it would be shamed as a lesbian, and there were some real consequences for any visible/assumed/known LBG people) . I don't think it's difficult to approach someone with the mindset that not everyone is compatible.

WHat I find interesting is that no man who seriously tries to determine what attracts women says being a nice, respectful guy is the way to go. Women may say that, but no guy who has gone from virgin-to-player sees this as the case, Food for thought.

I think it's a bit misleading to say "no guy" has gone that route. Nice and respectful doesn't necessarily mean you have to lack confidence in yourself, or that they're not genuinely a kind person. I think confidence is important, it's probably the most important thing for guys. A sense of humour's also good, and being a genuine person really helps too.

And I really do dislike the "virgin-to-player" notion...what exactly does a 'player' constitute? And why is that an important title to have in relation to knowing what women are attracted to?

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TrainerCeleste

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#54 TrainerCeleste
Member since 2012 • 1633 Posts

[QUOTE="TrainerCeleste"][QUOTE="sune_Gem"]

We should all be women.

sune_Gem

I agree, that way there will be no sexist remarks, we will only have one sex, and men won't be putting women down because we will all be women too :O

And we could all have showers together.

Imagine how big the aromatherapy and makeup industries would be. and only one bathroom would be needed, double the size of normal bathrooms oh yaes
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Rhazakna

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#55 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="Lockedge"] Oh lawd, the PUA community is...rancid. But yeah, I hate the manufactured dichotomy. She doesn't like me, and I'm a nice guy, so she must like jerks. I heard that tripe all the time in high school. There was a girl I was friends with who I kept telling my friends was single and looking. She was really good looking, though, and they ended up not talking to her at all. A few months later she settles for this relatively average guy witha fairly abrasive personality, because no one else would ask her out, and she was pretty desperate at that point. And then my friends said she was a b**** and was proof that girls only date jerks. Just baffling logic. The option was clearly open, they had an in through me, and they didn't take it. So they use the "nice guy" trope to cover up their own inability to go up give it a shot, which isn't fair to her. I mean, she could have asked a guy out, but that's neither here nor there (it was taboo in my school and any girl who did it would be shamed as a lesbian, and there were some real consequences for any visible/assumed/known LBG people) . I don't think it's difficult to approach someone with the mindset that not everyone is compatible.Lockedge

WHat I find interesting is that no man who seriously tries to determine what attracts women says being a nice, respectful guy is the way to go. Women may say that, but no guy who has gone from virgin-to-player sees this as the case, Food for thought.

I think it's a bit misleading to say "no guy" has gone that route. Nice and respectful doesn't necessarily mean you have to lack confidence in yourself, or that they're not genuinely a kind person. I think confidence is important, it's probably the most important thing for guys. A sense of humour's also good, and being a genuine person really helps too.

And I really do dislike the "virgin-to-player" notion...what exactly does a 'player' constitute? And why is that an important title to have in relation to knowing what women are attracted to?

A player is someone who women are attracted to, and who knows how to make themselves sexually appealing to women, whether naturally or through learned behavior. Yes, confidence is the most important thing, by far. That's why the whole "nice guy" phenomenon exists. Agreeable, kind people who don't want to rock the boat are viewed as less self-confident than douchebags who don't care about what people think.It's really more about the perception of obvious confidence, than who is really more secure with themselves deep down. Being nice, respectful and agreeable is not a way to make your confidence apparent, and men who seriously study what attracts women NEVER come to the conclusion that it's respect and kindness, at least not primarily. I defy you to find an exception.
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Slashless

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#56 Slashless
Member since 2011 • 9534 Posts

Ew, too long.

Ew, Girlwriteswhat.

Ew a feminist debate in OT, every time one of these pops up both sides of the debate come off as mind numbingly stupid.