Gaming Community takes a stand against anti-equality gamers

#1 Edited by HailtotheQueen (254 posts) -

If you think women, gays and black people are ruining gaming then you are not welcome there.

http://games.on.net/2014/08/readers-threatened-by-equality-not-welcome/

Announcement: Readers who feel threatened by equality no longer welcome

End of the line.

When it comes time to make a point about an important issue the tool I usually default to is humour, or satire, because I find it’s easiest to change people’s minds if you can make them laugh along with you. A lot of awful things have happened this week, and in the week before, and I’ve tried a few times to think of a clever way I could write them up while still getting the point across that, hey, things are really bad. I can’t. So here we are.

This week, Anita Sarkeesian had to leave her home after receiving horrific death and rape threats online. Her crime? She made a video that suggested maybe, just maybe, video games could treat women better. Game developer Tim Schafer linked to the video on his Twitter account, urging people to watch it, and in response people literally told him to go and kill himself.

Last week, indie developer Zoe Quinn had her personal life spilled over the internet in its entirety by a jilted ex-boyfriend. Now she’s being chased all over the internet and out of her house by more death and rape threats, subjected to a barrage of public condemnations of her private sex life, and being held up by angry human garbage as an example of how feminism is destroying video games. Fez developer Phil Fish had his website hacked and his entire life, his social security numbers, his financial details, everything, dumped online. His crime? Speaking up in support of Zoe Quinn.

This isn’t the first time this sort of thing has happened, of course. This crap just keeps going. People who proudly call themselves “gamers” everywhere have been harassing and trying to exclude women for the last ten years, citing every pathetic excuse in the book from a “feminist agenda” to “gamer culture is under attack”. It’s disgusting and it’s awful, and it doesn’t even make sense. What are these people even afraid of?

The terrible future

Literally the worst possible thing that can happen here is equality. That’s the worst outcome, that’s the nightmare scenario. If, today, every AAA publisher said “We will start to include women more in our games and represent them better”, the only actual difference this would make to anybody shrieking about how feminists are destroying games is that they might have to pick their gender in the next Call of Duty game. Terrifying, isn’t it. Stuff of nightmares.

The problem here is that these squealing man-children, so desperate to keep women out of their precious games, want it both ways. They want gaming to be taken seriously as a culture and art form, while at the same time throwing an unbelievable tantrum when subjected to serious criticism. This is ludicrous and immature on so many levels. Gaming isn’t for you, anymore. Gaming is for everyone. Everyone gets to have their say, to make their criticism, and gaming doesn’t need you to defend it.

(Isn’t it weird how AAA publishers with their nine-figure marketing budgets aren’t out there fighting against the destruction of video games? It’s almost like there is no actual war on gaming.)

The only thing left for these people to do is put their toys back in the pram and huddle together as the tide rises against them, until they wake up in five year’s time and realise thatAssassin’s Creed 7 was actually a pretty good game, even though they had to waste three precious seconds flicking the gender over to ‘male’ on the character creation screen so they can feel comfortable again. Change is inevitable, especially when half of the freaking gamers in the country are women and actually want to play some games that don’t treat them like disposable trash.

Here’s the door

So, here’s another change for you: if you really think feminism, or women, are destroying games, or that LGBT people and LGBT relationships have no place in games, or that games in any way belong to you or are “under attack” from political correctness or “social justice warriors”: please leave this website. I don’t want your clicks, I don’t want your hits, I don’t want your traffic. Leave now and please don’t come back.

I’m asking politely. You’re free to think whatever you like and to complain about whatever you like, but do it somewhere else. Comments are closed on this article, because this isn’t up for debate. I’m not seeking any input on this, or any carefully worded thoughts on how we need to take these concerns seriously or to hear “both sides of the story”. As long as I am in charge of this ship, I will happily admit to pushing an agenda: I want better representation in games. That’s my agenda. That’s our agenda.

I hope you’ll stay. I hope you’ll be part of a glorious future where a game that treats women and LGBT groups with respect won’t be held up as some weird oddity to praise and encourage. A future where female gamers don’t have to disguise their voice on raid chat, where game developers won’t be threatened with rape. Where people won’t be asking for a “gay filter” on their games because homosexuality makes them uncomfortable. I hope you’ll stick around for that.

But if you’re not on board with that, leave. If you’re not on board, find another ship, and good luck to you because that ship will be sailing against the wind.

--------------------------------------------------

Its awesome to see communities starting to stand up to this blatant bigotry that has been like a cancer in the gaming community the past several years. I have noticed that some of the mods are starting to put an end to it here on GameSpot as well when certain people start posting the same threads over and over bashing women, LGBT people and racial minorities.

#2 Posted by PurpleLabel (301 posts) -
#3 Posted by SolidSnake35 (58095 posts) -

Blah blah, we're all idiots, look at us acting like children.

#4 Edited by Master_Live (14177 posts) -

Good for him.

#5 Posted by SaintLeonidas (26041 posts) -

I love how as this has gained more attention outside of certain forums, the response has been very much in support of equality, or at least the civil discussion of it. They had the whole "GamerGate" hashtag on Twitter and people were ripping the "movement" apart. To the point that some forums, seemingly so embarrassed, were giving out instructions on how to remove posts, cookies, etc. from message boards so not to leave any connections to some of the more ridiculous discussions being had.

Corruption in gaming journalism is an issue. Sexism/equality in gaming is an issue. Approaching both in the ways many of the select group of "rebel gamers" has approached them is NOT the way to solve anything.

#6 Edited by PannicAtack (21020 posts) -

@SaintLeonidas said:

I love how as this has gained more attention outside of certain forums, the response has been very much in support of equality, or at least the civil discussion of it. They had the whole "GamerGate" hashtag on Twitter and people were ripping the "movement" apart. To the point that some forums, seemingly so embarrassed, were giving out instructions on how to remove posts, cookies, etc. from message boards so not to leave any connections to some of the more ridiculous discussions being had.

Corruption in gaming journalism is an issue. Sexism/equality in gaming is an issue. Approaching both in the ways many of the select group of "rebel gamers" has approached them is NOT the way to solve anything.

The problem is twofold.

1. People think that being right is a justification for being a caustic cunt.

2. Everyone thinks that they're right.

This is true of both sides.

#7 Posted by Rattlesnake_8 (18360 posts) -

What I find disturbing is how so many places are coming out saying "our agenda".. what agenda? If you are a journalist working at a website reporting gaming news then thats exactly what you should be doing. There should be no secret agenda behind it with hidden motives. I'm think equality is a great thing and womens (and mens) rights are very important. I don't believe one should be treated better than the other, which sadly is usually what a lot of extremist groups tend to believe despite using the word "equal" to gather support.

What needs to happen is a decent journalists need to come forward with the support of their boss and tell everyone what really goes on.. we already know, time to come out and admit it. Then they need to do some mass layoffs of people who have been key players in shoddy deals. That will help get some integrity back, of course it won't ever happen. Everyone knows everyone and they are all too scared to speak out about it, or participate in those practices themselves.

#8 Posted by Korvus (3206 posts) -

The problem is twofold.

1. People think that being right is a justification for being a caustic cunt.

2. Everyone thinks that they're right.

This is true of both sides.

Isn't that the sad truth?

#9 Posted by plageus900 (993 posts) -

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

#10 Edited by HailtotheQueen (254 posts) -

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

#11 Posted by plageus900 (993 posts) -

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

I don't care who's in the game, as long as it's good.

#12 Posted by PannicAtack (21020 posts) -

@hailtothequeen said:

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

I don't care who's in the game, as long as it's good.

That's an admirable sentiment.

#13 Posted by plageus900 (993 posts) -
#14 Posted by PannicAtack (21020 posts) -

@plageus900: I'm pretentious!

I am also portentous. I don't know what that word actually means, but okay.

#15 Edited by SambaLele (5181 posts) -

@SaintLeonidas said:

I love how as this has gained more attention outside of certain forums, the response has been very much in support of equality, or at least the civil discussion of it. They had the whole "GamerGate" hashtag on Twitter and people were ripping the "movement" apart. To the point that some forums, seemingly so embarrassed, were giving out instructions on how to remove posts, cookies, etc. from message boards so not to leave any connections to some of the more ridiculous discussions being had.

Corruption in gaming journalism is an issue. Sexism/equality in gaming is an issue. Approaching both in the ways many of the select group of "rebel gamers" has approached them is NOT the way to solve anything.

Couldn't agree more. But the first issue you name is being suppressed from discussion, while the other one not. Also, the first one is being suppressed on the basis that it was raised from a discussion that apparently involves harassment on how the other one is discussed. So, how can people discuss the first one if they are stopped because some other radical ones can't voice their opinion without hurting people? Should a 3rd party silence my own opinion because his own is detrimental to the discussion? This is the bizarre situation we are in today in the topic of gaming "journalism".

#16 Posted by Pedro (21037 posts) -

Anita Sarkeesian is poison. She adds nothing to the "cause" but hate. She offers NO solution. She is not open to discussion. The best thing she can do is shut the hell up. Let someone more capable take the reign because she is absolutely terrible.

#17 Edited by alim298 (1205 posts) -

Uhh please leave all this bullcrap out of gaming for God's sake. Video games are supposed to be "games" not political propaganda.

#18 Posted by Pedro (21037 posts) -

@alim298 said:

Uhh please live all this bullcrap out of gaming for God's sake. Video games are supposed to be "games" not political propaganda.

Stop living in a box. The bulk of modern videogames ARE pushing some political agenda so they are in fact creating the discussion.

#19 Posted by Rattlesnake_8 (18360 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Anita Sarkeesian is poison. She adds nothing to the "cause" but hate. She offers NO solution. She is not open to discussion. The best thing she can do is shut the hell up. Let someone more capable take the reign because she is absolutely terrible.

Agreed, all she wants is to spread hate and feel powerful having followers that are as extreme as her that will do her bidding. Whats even more sad is she makes a LOT of money doing it. While they claim to "fight for womens rights" they are actually fighting to destroy men. They don't want equality, they want women to be above men. Everything I've seen is that she won't discuss anything, and anyone who disagrees with her views will have a mob of her followers harass them.

#20 Edited by alim298 (1205 posts) -

@Pedro said:

@alim298 said:

Uhh please leave all this bullcrap out of gaming for God's sake. Video games are supposed to be "games" not political propaganda.

Stop living in a box. The bulk of modern videogames ARE pushing some political agenda so they are in fact creating the discussion.

Well, they shouldn't.

#21 Posted by Master_Live (14177 posts) -

@Pedro said:

@alim298 said:

Uhh please live all this bullcrap out of gaming for God's sake. Video games are supposed to be "games" not political propaganda.

Stop living in a box. The bulk of modern videogames ARE pushing some political agenda so they are in fact creating the discussion.

The bulk? Could you name 10 GS GOTY nominees on the last 3 years which push "some political agenda"?

#22 Posted by TheWalkingGhost (5117 posts) -
#23 Edited by lamprey263 (23156 posts) -

Hello gaming internet journalism, welcome to the internet.

#24 Posted by PurpleLabel (301 posts) -

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I agree. This thread is fucking stupid.

#25 Posted by Pedro (21037 posts) -

@alim298 said:

Well, they shouldn't.

They generally always will. Its the nature of the storytelling and the nature of conflict. Someone point of view has to be the dominant/correct one and the other has to be wrong one. And since the vast majority of games don't spend much time with greyish nature of life then tend to promote a very black and white perspective.

The bulk? Could you name 10 GS GOTY nominees on the last 3 years which push "some political agenda"?

How about no? I am not going out of my way to prove a point when you are not even making a point for or to the contrary. You can take your time and analyze the stories of the top 10 GS GOTY over the last 3 years by yourself and if you don't see any of those games pushing some political agenda sobeit.

#26 Posted by TheWalkingGhost (5117 posts) -

@SaintLeonidas said:

I love how as this has gained more attention outside of certain forums, the response has been very much in support of equality, or at least the civil discussion of it. They had the whole "GamerGate" hashtag on Twitter and people were ripping the "movement" apart. To the point that some forums, seemingly so embarrassed, were giving out instructions on how to remove posts, cookies, etc. from message boards so not to leave any connections to some of the more ridiculous discussions being had.

Corruption in gaming journalism is an issue. Sexism/equality in gaming is an issue. Approaching both in the ways many of the select group of "rebel gamers" has approached them is NOT the way to solve anything.

The problem is twofold.

1. People think that being right is a justification for being a caustic cunt.

2. Everyone thinks that they're right.

This is true of both sides.

A truer statement has never been made, at least in gaming. Can be applied everywhere. Also, shouldn't this be somewhere else? I though OT was not for game related threads.

#27 Posted by PurpleLabel (301 posts) -

@Pedro said:

@alim298 said:

Well, they shouldn't.

They generally always will. Its the nature of the storytelling and the nature of conflict. Someone point of view has to be the dominant/correct one and the other has to be wrong one. And since the vast majority of games don't spend much time with greyish nature of life then tend to promote a very black and white perspective.

@Master_Live said:

The bulk? Could you name 10 GS GOTY nominees on the last 3 years which push "some political agenda"?

How about no? I am not going out of my way to prove a point when you are not even making a point for or to the contrary. You can take your time and analyze the stories of the top 10 GS GOTY over the last 3 years by yourself and if you don't see any of those games pushing some political agenda sobeit.

A link between worlds really brings out the politics in current day society. It sounds more like you can't back up the bullshit you just stated.

Very few games are political, people try to make them political because they live boring fucking lives and need drama.

#28 Posted by PannicAtack (21020 posts) -

@purplelabel: I guess maybe... Bioshock Inifnite is sort of political? Or, uh... The Wolf Among Us? 'Cause the comics are like a metaphor for Israel or something?

Civilization and Crusader Kings II involve politics and agendas...

#29 Posted by PurpleLabel (301 posts) -

@purplelabel: I guess maybe... Bioshock Inifnite is sort of political? Or, uh... The Wolf Among Us? 'Cause the comics are like a metaphor for Israel or something?

Civilization and Crusader Kings II involve politics and agendas...

Civilization? lolol really? Just because politics is a mechanic doesn't mean it has a political agenda.

#30 Posted by PannicAtack (21020 posts) -

@PannicAtack said:

@purplelabel: I guess maybe... Bioshock Inifnite is sort of political? Or, uh... The Wolf Among Us? 'Cause the comics are like a metaphor for Israel or something?

Civilization and Crusader Kings II involve politics and agendas...

Civilization? lolol really? Just because politics is a mechanic doesn't mean it has a political agenda.

Obviously not a very strong case for these.

#31 Posted by magicalclick (22444 posts) -

It is sad that a GAMING industry has to be dragged into political babbles.

#32 Posted by Pedro (21037 posts) -

A link between worlds really brings out the politics in current day society. It sounds more like you can't back up the bullshit you just stated.

Very few games are political, people try to make them political because they live boring fucking lives and need drama.

I really don't see a need for me to be wasting my time scouring through 30 games to prove a point. That is simply a waste of time. A political point of view implemented in a story doesn't need to have propaganda origins, it simply the storyteller creating a story based on familiar concepts which embodies their political view. In the link between worlds the chosen one trope which can be connected to many religious origins and its can be argued that is glorifying the monarchy form of governing; which has become the staple to most fantasy games. It doesn't mean they are trying to push an agenda but it is a political slant which is expected in all stories. The story doesn't need to be blatant or trying to convince the player of a particular way of thinking but it is sharing their way of thinking. Their way of what is right and wrong. That is the core of all political conflicts.

#33 Posted by PurpleLabel (301 posts) -

@Pedro: TL:DR

It's ok that you can't back up your point though. It's cute you typed out a long response that I didn't read.

#34 Posted by Pedro (21037 posts) -

@Pedro: TL:DR

It's ok that you can't back up your point though. It's cute you typed out a long response that I didn't read.

Oh so you are taking the same approach as I am so that makes you wrong by default according to you :)

#35 Posted by Master_Live (14177 posts) -
@Pedro said:

Stop living in a box. The bulk of modern videogames ARE pushing some political agenda so they are in fact creating the discussion.

@Pedro said:

It doesn't mean they are trying to push an agenda but it is a political slant which is expected in all stories.

Don't back pedal so fast, you might hurt yourself.

#36 Posted by Pedro (21037 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Stop living in a box. The bulk of modern videogames ARE pushing some political agenda so they are in fact creating the discussion.

Don't back pedal so fast, you might hurt yourself.

Then I can give you modern games that are pushing one then, Battlefied, COD, Last of US and Bioshock Infinite comes to mind.

#37 Posted by BranKetra (48128 posts) -

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.

At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.

However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.

#38 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (13423 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.

At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.

However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.

Same, if she's referring to Bioware drama it's simply because bioware games are filled with shitty writing, espeically when it comes to the love interests. The gay characters always come off as feeling forced as well.

If a games good I couldn't care less if the main character is a gay hispanic purple alien that collects bottle caps.

#39 Edited by SambaLele (5181 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.

At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.

However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.

Well, I did find one or another comment like that in all my time on the internet. But what's that? about 0.0000001% of gamers? How can anyone take that as representative of gamers?

And people have to consider that most gamers don't even care to discuss games online... most just play games, sometimes read something about games somewhere from time to time... and that's it.

#40 Posted by HailtotheQueen (254 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Anita Sarkeesian is poison. She adds nothing to the "cause" but hate. She offers NO solution. She is not open to discussion. The best thing she can do is shut the hell up. Let someone more capable take the reign because she is absolutely terrible.

Agreed, all she wants is to spread hate and feel powerful having followers that are as extreme as her that will do her bidding. Whats even more sad is she makes a LOT of money doing it. While they claim to "fight for womens rights" they are actually fighting to destroy men. They don't want equality, they want women to be above men. Everything I've seen is that she won't discuss anything, and anyone who disagrees with her views will have a mob of her followers harass them.

Prove what you just said. Everytime I see some anti-feminist say "feminists want to destroy men or feminists hate men" and yet when I ask them to provide evidence showing that the majority or even a large percentage of feminist actually believe this, they never seem to have any proof. The only thing they ever have is anecdotal evidence involving one or two people. Well if that is all you need to make a sweeping generalization then I can say that all MRAs are like Elliot Rogers because in his video he actually made several claims that he shared with most MRAs. See what happens when you make blanket statements? Speaking of harassment, people on your side do far more of it because of course, that's okay in your mind, right?

#41 Edited by foxhound_fox (87683 posts) -

There is equality in video games. A video game developer is fully entitled (in most countries) to make whatever game they feel like making. They can make whatever kind of characters they want and write whatever kinds of stories they want. There are male and female developers alike, making all sorts of different kinds of games for a variety of different kinds of gamers.

Equality doesn't mean special treatment for every and any ethnicity, sexuality or sub-culture. It just means people are free to express themselves as artists and business people, and will be free to make whatever they want.

#42 Posted by HailtotheQueen (254 posts) -

@hailtothequeen said:

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.

At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.

However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.

Then you clearly must live in a cave and don't pay attention to what goes on. The examples of males being angry about strong female characters are endless. There have been plenty of those arguments made on here since I started posted here. Look at the Tomb Raider issue. Many males were upset because of the changes and accused the devs of bowing down to the "feminist agenda." And remember the Battlefield 3 incident when people were upset about one of the characters being changed from white to black? The devs were accused of bowing down to the "PC Police." Remember the gay controversy from mass effect 3? The devs were accused of once again bowing to the pc police. LOL

#43 Posted by HailtotheQueen (254 posts) -

There is equality in video games. A video game developer is fully entitled (in most countries) to make whatever game they feel like making. They can make whatever kind of characters they want and write whatever kinds of stories they want. There are male and female developers alike, making all sorts of different kinds of games for a variety of different kinds of gamers.

Equality doesn't mean special treatment for every and any ethnicity, sexuality or sub-culture. It just means people are free to express themselves as artists and business people, and will be free to make whatever they want.

And yet when the devs make games that include certain types of people as key characters, these same people who claim that they just care about good games, go batshit insane and claim we are ruining their games. If they really only care about the games then why do they get upset when other groups of people want to be represented better in those games? After all, it shouldn't matter to them. Its just about the games... ;O)

#44 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (13423 posts) -

@hailtothequeen said:

@BranKetra said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.

At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.

However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.

Then you clearly must live in a cave and don't pay attention to what goes on. The examples of males being angry about strong female characters are endless. There have been plenty of those arguments made on here since I started posted here. Look at the Tomb Raider issue. Many males were upset because of the changes and accused the devs of bowing down to the "feminist agenda." And remember the Battlefield 3 incident when people were upset about one of the characters being changed from white to black? The devs were accused of bowing down to the "PC Police." Remember the gay controversy from mass effect 3? The devs were accused of once again bowing to the pc police. LOL

It just sounds like to me that you're taking small isolated incidents and using them to further promote your own views.

#45 Posted by BranKetra (48128 posts) -

@BranKetra said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.

At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.

However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.

Then you clearly must live in a cave and don't pay attention to what goes on. The examples of males being angry about strong female characters are endless. There have been plenty of those arguments made on here since I started posted here. Look at the Tomb Raider issue. Many males were upset because of the changes and accused the devs of bowing down to the "feminist agenda." And remember the Battlefield 3 incident when people were upset about one of the characters being changed from white to black? The devs were accused of bowing down to the "PC Police." Remember the gay controversy from mass effect 3? The devs were accused of once again bowing to the pc police. LOL

I do not believe that. Also, I dislike how you focused on one part of my comment when it is all relevant to this conversation.

#46 Posted by foxhound_fox (87683 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

There is equality in video games. A video game developer is fully entitled (in most countries) to make whatever game they feel like making. They can make whatever kind of characters they want and write whatever kinds of stories they want. There are male and female developers alike, making all sorts of different kinds of games for a variety of different kinds of gamers.

Equality doesn't mean special treatment for every and any ethnicity, sexuality or sub-culture. It just means people are free to express themselves as artists and business people, and will be free to make whatever they want.

And yet when the devs make games that include certain types of people as key characters, these same people who claim that they just care about good games, go batshit insane and claim we are ruining their games. If they really only care about the games then why do they get upset when other groups of people want to be represented better in those games? After all, it shouldn't matter to them. Its just about the games... ;O)

You are talking about a very loud minority.

#47 Posted by HailtotheQueen (254 posts) -

@hailtothequeen said:

@BranKetra said:

@hailtothequeen said:

@plageus900 said:

What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol

Why cant we all just shut the fuck up and play games?

I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)

I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.

At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.

However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.

Then you clearly must live in a cave and don't pay attention to what goes on. The examples of males being angry about strong female characters are endless. There have been plenty of those arguments made on here since I started posted here. Look at the Tomb Raider issue. Many males were upset because of the changes and accused the devs of bowing down to the "feminist agenda." And remember the Battlefield 3 incident when people were upset about one of the characters being changed from white to black? The devs were accused of bowing down to the "PC Police." Remember the gay controversy from mass effect 3? The devs were accused of once again bowing to the pc police. LOL

I do not believe that. Also, I dislike how you focused on one part of my comment when it is all relevant to this conversation.

Don't believe what? If you don't believe any of those things happened, feel free to research them. Google is your friend.

For example, if you want to know about the black/white BF3 controversy then feel free to go to the Battlefield forum and type "black medic" in the search. Enjoy the endless complaints about it.

Here is a funny Battlefield Friends video they did involving the black/white controversy on BF3.

#48 Edited by platinumking320 (666 posts) -

Tip. Assholes are going to be assholes, and the internet, through IRC has been toxic and risky since its inception. We all know harrassment is wrong, but its like focusing on the blueness of the sky. This toxc enviroment has been around well before the explosion of modern gaming. As far as behaviour all ppl need to do is exercise personal responsibility. These articles would be more mature if they assumed their readers were adults instead of berating them.

Assholes have been through out all of society. Simply pointing to boisterous while males is too easy a bogeyman. Some are self aware and humorous about their arrogance others have an inferiority complex, we dont all know each other so well. There are ppl of all races and genders who act this way, some in the gaming community.

Real ostracism is subtle and non verbal, often practiced in seemingly professional environments where people with diff opinions are easily marginalized and cut off due to moral grandstanding cheap, new testament pharisee personas looking to profit off of, manipulate, and dispose of hard working others. and in the twitter verse often expressed through the loyal attack dogs of some of these spiteful games 'reporters'.

This is one in a series of articles that came out suspiciously all within 24 hrs at the tail end of last week. Here's what I think gamers really care about.

Can you perform or not?

Do you think someone would be crowned champion in a rap battle or drafted on a sports team for waving their gender or race around? Not saying there aren't issues, but still. These folks have taken the committee seats of Tipper Gore and Jack Thompson, and the rest of the community is stuck in the testifying chair being lectured to needlessly, about things they are already aware of. They can police their own, and we all don't need any Nurse Ratcheds to come into video gaming to do so.

Id think "Can you perform or not" is something you'd value, or examine if someone were to play on your team. Thats it. If games feature certain aspects of competitiveness, then how much I wear my blackness on my sleeve isnt necessarily going to be a determining factor in the likeliness of winning matches or levels.

Showing and improving breeds inclusive enviroments, because in a cooperative environment, players have to depend on you. Some of the 'shit talkers' you mention call of duty tweenies who camp all the time, would get knifed up in bewilderment in Counterstrike from dwelling in maps with virtually no skill gap or challenge that makes them think for once. People who haven't learned how to lose, some of them eventually shut up.

I think indies do present intelligent ideas but suggesting alternate semi-games as a cultural 'replacement' of AAA action, as gamasutra has so blindly suggested is an equally immature and poorly thought idea. Some people like to externalize conflict in art, others prefer to internalize or abstract it. There is art and meaning in both. All that truly matters is execution, not the critcism of ideals or this 'culture of shut up and safe spaces ' that seems to be encouraged now. The enjoyment of all types of games are not mutually exclusive to gamers.

If you want to fix entitlement in our society, I'd worry more so about the lack of harder, and more clever built games to keep people busy, and willing to communicate and share ideas, or the byproduct of our "everyones a winner", psuedo intellectual self esteem movement we've been breeding since the turn of the 80's, and from the looks of some of these writings, 'reviewers' are trying to suggest be the replacing aspirations of all gaming. Yeah real stellar social movement there. I can see the results were very 'productive'

I dont know about you, but I see assholes of many different types of sociopolitical alignments in our culture. I'd like them to be more honest rather than hide behind little banners of 'social justice'. Twitter is a breeding ground for them. Moral zealots will never have the mental capacity to see themselves as capable of being a problem. Unnecessary crusades are their dopamine, while everyone wants to be free to enjoy entertainment unafraid to cross lines and expose themselves to things that may be uncomfortable. . Maybe...just maybe the culprit isn't the AAA games or gamers who time and time again will always tell you. They don't give a fuck. Thats democratic enough for me, and should be for all of us. So ehhh...

" Hey Jim!! "

"What?"

"I'm all outta fucks up here. We got any in back stock??"

"Sorry. That was our last shipment. Call the other stores, see if they've got leftovers."

"I humbly apologize. We all seem to be emotionally sold out of fucks right now. I'm honestly not sure, how soon we'll be getting any more. I call ahead to see if any of our neighboring stores might have some, but telling from the inventory numbers, the odds are very very slim. "

#49 Posted by MlauTheDaft (3371 posts) -

@korvus said:

@PannicAtack said:

The problem is twofold.

1. People think that being right is a justification for being a caustic cunt.

2. Everyone thinks that they're right.

This is true of both sides.

Isn't that the sad truth?

Indeed it is...

#50 Edited by Shielder7 (5151 posts) -

Seriously hasn't everything in the OPs quote been debunked or discredited all the way to Anita Sarkeesian twilight fantasy so called harassment that makes no sense to Zoe Quinn actually doxxing herself?

FYI gamer isn't gender or race specific something SJW and Feminist seem to not understand.